The question you asked was if there was 'any chance' of this being possible.

The answer is a big fat YES. It is very possible.

Dwarven Race
Snow Elf Race
Ayleid Race
Chimer Race
Daedric Race


These are most likely the viable options that we could ever get in the future.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I think new polymorph and skin options are the only acceptable way of introducing new playable races.

That's NOT a new race, in exactly the same way a polymorph is not a new race.

It would work for sub-races, but not for new races! Since a -different- race would also have to have different passives as well...

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Most of the races that exist within the lore and haven't been added to the playable roster yet are regarded as hostile and met with severe prejudice...

...exactly like the imperials would be in the current political climate of the second era. Or cross-alliance races.
If the game has no issues with a breton playing through stonefalls on the pact side while the covenant invasion ravages the land, or no issues with an imperial fighting for the covenant in bangkorai without getting arrested as suspected infiltrator... then there also should not be all that much of an issue with some exiled maormer fighting as hired sword for the pact, or some odd reachman serving queen ayrenn, or a surviving akaviri mercenary helping out in the covenant, yes?

Some others might be more iffy... I mean, Goblins are not well recieved anywhere for example... though that -could- be also done with a racial passive that has a negative effect (like, doubling ALL bounty gain while giving a hefty penalty for vendor prices?)

And some might be WAY too iffy, like daedra... people -might- accept a well-spoken goblin as "mercenary" for hire to deal with their trouble, but noone in tamriel would ever trust a frigging -demon- without a sorceror holding their leash...

Ratzkifal wrote: »

...or are extinct to the point where bringing any of them back would mess with established lore...

...which is a very valid point, and the reason not even I as someone who'd love to see new race options would ever argue for dwemer, ayleid or snow elf characters. (Kothringi and Lilmothiit are a "maybe", since their "extinction" happened only twenty years before ESO, so... they -could- work the "lone survivor of a doomed race" shtick)

Ratzkifal wrote: »

The only real options that are worth considering in this are different furstock for the Khajiit and other tribes for the Argonians, as well as the Imga.

Issues with that are... well, any Khajiity furstocks they might pick (and the list is even more limited, since they also need them to work with all the animations and gear visuals in game, so... no wierd body shapes or digitigrade legs...) would be a dominion race, needing them to add a pact and a covenant race to balance... But, since those would most likely be sharing the same passives as our already in-game khajiit... it might make more sense to do that sort of thing as character appearance options.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

As for the Imga I haven't seen anyone really hyped about playing one, only people wanting to meet them, which is different.

Eh. Monkey see, monkey do. If people can see them, some will want to play as one of them I reckon. Tho they -would- once again be a dominion-only race, so...

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Not to mention that balancing more racials and trying to make them all unique and desireable but not oppressive, is going to be an increasingly difficult task with each added race.

Unless you just copy something from the already existing ones. Like... making maormer with something -just- like the dunmer passives just shifted to shock instead of fire, yes?

Indoril_Nerevar wrote: »

...These are most likely the viable options that we could ever get in the future.

Uhm... you -are- aware you listed EXACTLY the LEAST LIKELY options???
Dwarven? The dwemer are GONE and have been for almost three thousand years.
Snow Elf? Gone for more then three thousand years, only their blind mutated descendants survive.
Ayleids? Gone for many, many centuries as well, and the only way you can find one is if they happened to be imprisoned by some sdaedric prince for all that time...
Chimer? All turned into Dunmer by Azuras wrath.
Daedra? Completely unsuitable as player characters, as it would not work with 95% of all the story plots...

If you want to talk about actual "viable options"... you should think about maormer, reachmen, imga, goblins, or a lone traveller from the four akaviri races...

But like I said, been there, posted that:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/422285/new-player-race-possibilities/p1

I think they are planning on adding playable sea elves at some point. Yay. It's the one that makes most sense, but I am open to more in the future if they fit.

Edit
in a recent tweet Bethesda said ES 6 is many many many years away. So my prediction of it being at least a decade out is right. ESO is Elder Scrolls now. When Starfield comes out I bet it will be worse than Fallout 76. Zenimax should just design a single player Elder Scrolls for Bethesda now because its clear all Bethesda is good for is...? I don't even know. They should be folded in with Zenimax (the publisher) and let other dev's work on their products.

I hope not.

redgreensunset wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Aptonoth wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

Hear the lore nerds have a total meltdown if they do, never mind that TES games have added new races in the past. I liked the idea of Reachmen as playable that someone flew a while back.

The support on this forum was quite positive with new races. There are a few that could be added and be loreful.

There's none that could be added as any other races they exist are only there to be in opposition to established races and they don't have any form of power in Tamriel (no notable territories on the continent) which is the other major factor

I don't even know what the first half of your argument is supposed to mean. As for the second half why would a new race not having territory on Tamriel be a problem? For one thing the Three Banner War is largely being ignored in newer content and even assuming we follow that train of thinking what's to prevent a new race to follow in the footsteps of the Imperial race which isn't faction tied?

You can't add new races as the playable races are established now in the series.

Because new races don't normally just blink into and out of existance like the Dwemer. I mean without notable territory in Tamriel why are you going to add them in?

The Three Banner War is still going on, it's not being ignored, it's not just central to the main storyline anymore because that would be a very stale boring storyline. The established gamelore also prevents a new race from following in the footsteps of the Imperial race

starkerealm wrote: »

Aptonoth wrote: »

I think they are planning on adding playable sea elves at some point. Yay. It's the one that makes most sense, but I am open to more in the future if they fit.

Edit
in a recent tweet Bethesda said ES 6 is many many many years away. So my prediction of it being at least a decade out is right. ESO is Elder Scrolls now. When Starfield comes out I bet it will be worse than Fallout 76. Zenimax should just design a single player Elder Scrolls for Bethesda now because its clear all Bethesda is good for is...? I don't even know. They should be folded in with Zenimax (the publisher) and let other dev's work on their products.

Reasonable timetable guesses puts Starfield in 2021, with TES6 being, at the earliest, 2024.

So naive with nu-Bethesda.

Sub species of some races could be added easily they could even parody existing racial passives to give some flair but be kept within racial balance.

And appearance wise most of the races already have universal armor worn by non playable races they use the same haircuts and tones and colors etc

Like naga could be a more stamina/dps variant of argonian copying maybe redguard or bosmer passives.

Khajiit could add tojay and copy bosmer racials for the small nimble khajiit vibe.
Pumar rhat huge stronk cat could copy orc passives and for most part would be just a huge khajiit.

Reachmen could be a sub of breton maybe having passives similar to dunmer and or khajiit base racial since breton got the solid magicka race covered.

Maomer could pretty much copy dunmer or altmer given how they do things.

Akaviri (excluding the snake monsters) from what lore and imperial relatives basically sounds like a redguard passives kinda race with some asian/japanese style features.

starkerealm wrote: »

Maomer are a possibility, but they seem unlikely, simply because many people on Tamriel have very strong opinions about the Sea Elves, and it would seriously mess with a number of interactions during the course of the game.

Actually... the ones with the "strong opinions" are the altmer, and its mutual. Most others care a lot less... yes, they know of them, and know they are pirates... but that's about it. Khajiit lived happily as good neighbors with them on a certain starter isle, until the altmer came with an offer to join the dominion, which drove the maormer to some extreme measures to try and prevent their hated altmer cousins stealing a march on them there... we all played through it, did we not?

Heh, it actually would be an interesting idea if Maormer were allowed as race - for everyone except AD. Covenant and pact would not care much about them joining their ranks as mercenaries, only in dominion lands its a different story...

starkerealm wrote: »

The Akiviri races are highly unlikely.

Weeeeeelllll... that depeneds.
IF they were to make an expansion dealing with akaviri... (like, say, investigating the background of the invasion ten years before ESO, and preventing the next one, visiting the three large islands between tamriel and akavir to do so...) Well, then I could see it happening.
Otherwise... yeah, highly unlikely.
Even tho the last invasion -was- only ten years before ESO, and it would be very plausible that some captives from that time might have ended up in am imperial dungeon to be dragged to a sacrifical altat by worm cultists to start the coldharbour tutorial, or escaped to wander tamriels countryside... we actuially know that some did exactly that, and would meet up with human descendants of an much earlier akaviri invasion living near Rimmen (you know who I expect), to make their own (unsuccessful) push for the ruby throne sometime between ESO and Talos...

In any case, the bad blood exists between Akaviri and the Pact, but the others... have very little issues with them. Heck, some people in elsweyr might even have a good opinion of them from their Hakoshae neighbors... so... once again, it would entirely make sense if they were done as "No pact" race available for DC and AD only...

starkerealm wrote: »

Same problem for the Lilmothi, though we don't have hard conformation that they're all dead, it's been decades since anyone saw them.

Two decades to be exact.
Yeah, exactly two. The knarhaten flu ravaged Black Marsh only half a generation before the events of ESO... so... yes, it is indeed possible for one or two "lone survivors" to have been elsewhere during that time, and found their way into a coldharbour prison.
Like I always say - I could see them appear in the crown store... but either in the crown crates with an "Apex Radiant" rarity, or at a frighteningly overblown price... to keep them really, really "rare"...

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Imperials are an established lore race with a base of power on the continent of Tamriel. They exist in game as both protagonists and antagonists, (there are tons of friendly imperial towns including in Bangkorai & Reapers March, the Gold Coast is all Imperials).

Wrong. -ish.
Yes, Imperials are an established lore race - just like dunmer, orsimer, bretons, argonians... and also maormer, goblins, reachmen, akaviri...
Yes, they had a power base on the continent of Tamriel... but that power base fell and fractured.
No, there are no "friendly" imperial towns in any of those places - there are friendly towns occupied by unfriendly imperials. A mater that is rectified through a lot of questing in those regions.

Yes... there are -some- Imperial protagonists... like Abner Tharn... and the occasional imperial who is not there to make trouble, but to pursue some other goal (like the small detachment in NE reapers march that are not hostile like every other imperial in the regon, but just want to get their stolen relics back). But generally... they are the bad guys in the classic ESO stories. Even Abner who joind the heroes kinda does so in the course of a classic defection... and so does Every player character Imperial.

Easy to see the same option for other antagonist races, yes?

Oh, and yes, Gold Coast is imperial-ish, and non-hostile. Mostly because the whole region kinda did the same "defection" dance...

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Their notable territory is Cyodiil and much of the surrounding provinces. So far we've only seen the Gold Coast which even if that's their only held territory is still a significantly larger territory than a place like the Reach.

Weeeeellllll... that depends on which map you look at.
For the second era... I have been looking at an old, old, old ESO map...

...which is obviously quite obsolete by now, but... still shows a pretty large region. Not the size of the empire as it was before the troubles that fragmented it, but definitely as big as the orcs territory over in wrothgar, yes?
And then there also is the question of how far the reachmen in ESO range from their "home" - from bangkorai and wrothgar in the west to the rift in the east... that's quite a bit of land, is it not?

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

At this point in the ESO story the Imperials still have plenty to fight for whether there's an Empire or not and even if they just antagonists to you, in your own words they are antagonists in Bangkorai and Reaper's March, but you missed that they're antagonists to all the factions.

Exactly!
Thank you!
So now you admit that "antagonists to all the factions" can be done as playable race - Just Like Imperials! Thus... "antagonist" is obviously no reason not to have a race playable for lone characters!

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The Reachmen are only antagonists of the Nords...

...and the Bretons, as seen in Bangkorai. And the Orcs, as seen in Wrotthgar. Because those are their friggin neighbors! Those are who they share borders with! And thus... those are who they fight with over territory!

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

and the Maromer are only enemies to the High Elves, and more specifically the Summerset Isles.

Agreed. Some long standing hatred between those two over who is the "true" heirs to Aldmeris... and by extention, the Maormer also kinda dislike the dominion, since they sort of see it as their despised cousins getting pawns to control and maybe move against them someday...

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The Imperials have been dipolmatic to the other races on Tamriel while the other factions haven't.

Some more, some less, some war, some peace... but yeah. Agreed.
So?
So have the reachmen, who have a non-agression pact with the imperials as we learn in bangkorai (still stemming from the time a reachmen bloodline sat on the ruby throne - the longhouse emperors), and so have the maormer, as we see in the AD starter isle when they break their treaty witzh the Khajiit over the dominion thing...

You still have not explained how that figures into the whole "playable character" issue. Especially since at this point, the imperials "diplomatic relations" have ALL broken down and turned into the quagmire that is the three banners war, with the three allainces invading imperial lands, and the imperial warlords invading alliance territory...

So, if in that state of conflict, imperials can be player characters... there is no reason for denying others as well.

And remember, we are NOT talking about the people in general... but about "one lone exile/defector/mercenary becoming an unlikely hero" shtick.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Goblins would be a terrible choice and this is ESO not WoW.

I certainly would want to see some drawbacks to reflect that, yeah. On the other hand... they do meet the minimum standards, they are intelligent (barely), they can interact with people (barely), they can craft and cast spells... it could be done. For some who want a special challenge...

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

As for the Akaviri races, the thing that makes them cool and unique is the fact that we don't see them or their societies. The mystery is what makes them interesting long term.

True. But then, that makes it also interesting for them to give us a glimpse... and once they do that, making then playable if possible could be worth consideration.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

I think you'd see a lot more people quit the game than be happy with a playable Maromer or Reachman, it makes no sense game wise.

I kinda doubt that.
I really, really consider that claim to be complete bovine manure, that people would "leave ESO" because a race that HAS been around since the start of the game as antagonist for them to see and fight suddenly becomes playable as character. Especially since another race that also has been around as antagonists had been playable all this time, become more playable when the crown store made it easier to access, and there also are already people RPing as maormer and reachman characters... (I dimly remember even as gobbos!) wearing their crafting style, making a dunmer or breton character as close as they can in appearance, etc.

And it WOULD make sense, lorewise and gamewise... not for the whole race of course, but... again, as a "exiled from their people" lone hero (or several, scattered around the landscape). Which I have to remind people IS kinda a classic cliché in such tales... from Conan the Cimmerian to Elric of Melniboné, from Drizzt Do'Urden to Makri of Turai...

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

So you'd want ZOS to make a new race and you think the best race possible for one of those slots would be Breton part 2?

Nah. I am merely listing the possibilities... it should be quite obvious by now that the race I myself would love to see would be maormer, not reachman. I am just saying, if they wanted to, they could do those too. Or not and just make the decision that all reachmen are just primitive bretons with slavic accent.
It. Is. Up. To. Them.
I am simply saying, the lore supports both options.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The Orc territory in ESO and in past and future lore is significantly larger than anything the Reachman ever control and the reachman never move past primitive levels of technology. The Orcs have a complex society and the ability to create cities, the Reachman do not and never will so yes it is actually a lot of help in this argument.

Once again. We see reachmen invading northern Bangkorai and the northeastern parts of the Rift, as well as Wrothgar. That does tell us a thing or two about the scope of their "territory" does it not?
Also, your much vaunted empire? Reachmen controlled that. Until Varen Aquillarios overthrew the line of longhouse emperors and snatched the crown (we know how his following attempt to also snatch dragonborn status ended).
And if you think cities is a measure of society, then you should read a history book about the mongols someday...
I mean, yeah, Reachmen are primitive. Just like many Argonians, or Bosmer.
Just like Cimmerians in another universe. Or many other classic fantasy cliché characters.
No reason not to allow them for those players who want to play a "barbarian" I would think.

Only question is - does ZOS want to go there? Once again, I only say, IF they do, the lore would support it, and if they don't, then the lore also supports reachmen just being a breton offshoot. And I still personally don't give two tugs of a dead doneys d... uhm... tail about if they ever do make reachmen, or not.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

And that's exactly what I meant by that. It only works because it's not a new race. New races would be a mess.

Again, depends entirely on how they do it.
And even so, no more of a "mess" then new gear sets, new skill lines, etc.
Which they keep doing, so... argument invalid.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

The people that want new races generally only care about the cosmetic or roleplaying aspect of it and polymorphs etc would serve those very well.

Nope.
Oh, maybe for those only caring about the cosmetic... but those who care about the roleplaying are not that easily satisfied. I should know, I am one of them.
I mean, you might as well tell all the vampire players to make do with a polymorph, right? How would that go, care to guess? Which direction is ZOS taking that these days? Hmmm?

Ratzkifal wrote: »

...one way or the other these new options will cost money.

Well, duh!
Which also means, adding some new options will get ZOS money.
Which is exactly why they do it. Why they added new classes or new skill lines... new outfit options or new item sets...
And if I had a choice between a new class I would have to make a new character for, or a new race I can racechange-refit to one of my existing opnes... I say, bring on some races! But once again, I am not saying they must do this... I am just saying, IF they choose to do this, those races would work (despite some people grasping at straws to deny the possibility), and others would be iffy.

Mettaricana wrote: »

Sub species of some races could be added easily they could even parody existing racial passives to give some flair but be kept within racial balance.

And appearance wise most of the races already have universal armor worn by non playable races they use the same haircuts and tones and colors etc

Like naga could be a more stamina/dps variant of argonian copying maybe redguard or bosmer passives.

Khajiit could add tojay and copy bosmer racials for the small nimble khajiit vibe.
Pumar rhat huge stronk cat could copy orc passives and for most part would be just a huge khajiit.

Reachmen could be a sub of breton maybe having passives similar to dunmer and or khajiit base racial since breton got the solid magicka race covered.

Maomer could pretty much copy dunmer or altmer given how they do things.

Akaviri (excluding the snake monsters) from what lore and imperial relatives basically sounds like a redguard passives kinda race with some asian/japanese style features.

What would the point of even having racials be at that point if you have magicka and stamina versions of every race?

[/quote]
Wrong. -ish.
Yes, Imperials are an established lore race - just like dunmer, orsimer, bretons, argonians... and also maormer, goblins, reachmen, akaviri...
Yes, they had a power base on the continent of Tamriel... but that power base fell and fractured.
No, there are no "friendly" imperial towns in any of those places - there are friendly towns occupied by unfriendly imperials. A mater that is rectified through a lot of questing in those regions.

Yes... there are -some- Imperial protagonists... like Abner Tharn... and the occasional imperial who is not there to make trouble, but to pursue some other goal (like the small detachment in NE reapers march that are not hostile like every other imperial in the regon, but just want to get their stolen relics back). But generally... they are the bad guys in the classic ESO stories. Even Abner who joind the heroes kinda does so in the course of a classic defection... and so does Every player character Imperial.

Easy to see the same option for other antagonist races, yes?

Oh, and yes, Gold Coast is imperial-ish, and non-hostile. Mostly because the whole region kinda did the same "defection" dance...

TheShadowScout wrote: »

The Empire has fractured but by no means has the powerbase fallen

Fair enough, Arenthia was an Imperial town but the Dominion forced the Imperials out when they formed

Abner Tharn never defects from the Empire, everything he does to help you is in the name of the Empire

The Gold Coast isn't "Imperialish" it's 100% Imperial and it proves what you're saying wrong. They didn't "defect" either they revolted and it doesn't make that any less Imperial. I'm not sure why you keep using that as a defense.

Weeeeellllll... that depends on which map you look at.
For the second era... I have been looking at an old, old, old ESO map...
...which is obviously quite obsolete by now, but... still shows a pretty large region. Not the size of the empire as it was before the troubles that fragmented it, but definitely as big as the orcs territory over in wrothgar, yes?
And then there also is the question of how far the reachmen in ESO range from their "home" - from bangkorai and wrothgar in the west to the rift in the east... that's quite a bit of land, is it not?

TheShadowScout wrote: »

No, according to your map it's exactly 0 lands. They are in lands controlled and governed by the Orcs, Nords, and Bretons like you said but that's the problem. The Reachman is a name given to tribal people that rangeover a large area but realistically control 0 of it. They have no major cities, no sizeable populations, no government, no unified culture, and if you really get into the lore the Hagravens would have a lot to do with their culture and be revered and possibly head the tribes themselves. The Reachman would never under any circumstance help the major races of Tamriel and would never join into Tamrielic society.

Exactly!
Thank you!
So now you admit that "antagonists to all the factions" can be done as playable race - Just Like Imperials! Thus... "antagonist" is obviously no reason not to have a race playable for lone characters!

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I didn't say antagonists of all factions can be playable races. Antagonist is a very good reason to not have a race be playable for lone characters as there'd be no reason for that character to be on the opposing side in the numbers that a playable race would have. If a Maromer defected you'd have 1 person, that's not enough to justify 10,000 people playing as maromers all of a sudden.

...and the Bretons, as seen in Bangkorai. And the Orcs, as seen in Wrotthgar. Because those are their friggin neighbors! Those are who they share borders with! And thus... those are who they fight with over territory!

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Yup, but there's no reason for them to be in any part of the world at any point so just because they're loosely distributed among that territory doesn't make them a major faction. For all you know that could be 3 separate factions of Reachmen that have nothing to do with each other that make war with each other on the reg. Either way the Reachman are primitive and wouldn't adapt to Tamrielic life.

Agreed. Some long standing hatred between those two over who is the "true" heirs to Aldmeris... and by extention, the Maormer also kinda dislike the dominion, since they sort of see it as their despised cousins getting pawns to control and maybe move against them someday...

TheShadowScout wrote: »

That's not how they work though. They don't have the resources to attack all of Tamriel and a Maromer that defected would be killed before he had the chance to make it into Tamrielic society. That doesn't even take into account the logistics of some how getting from their island kingdom to Tamriel.

Some more, some less, some war, some peace... but yeah. Agreed.
So?
So have the reachmen, who have a non-agression pact with the imperials as we learn in bangkorai (still stemming from the time a reachmen bloodline sat on the ruby throne - the longhouse emperors), and so have the maormer, as we see in the AD starter isle when they break their treaty witzh the Khajiit over the dominion thing...

You still have not explained how that figures into the whole "playable character" issue. Especially since at this point, the imperials "diplomatic relations" have ALL broken down and turned into the quagmire that is the three banners war, with the three allainces invading imperial lands, and the imperial warlords invading alliance territory...

So, if in that state of conflict, imperials can be player characters... there is no reason for denying others as well.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Having a treaty (as lore breaking as they both are and shouldn't exist) doesn't really dictate widescale diplomacy. Like I stated you don't know enough about the cultures to establish that. I also don't understand why you think Imperial relations have broken down. The Imperials are more than just Cyrodiil and the Empire and even if they were they still have more than enough power to appear as enemies in every region in Tamriel. There's no reason to imagine the "bad" Imperials being from the former empire while the "good" playable Imperials can be from Clovian Highlands, Blackwood, Nibenay, etc. You can't say the same for the Reachman or the Maromer

And remember, we are NOT talking about the people in general... but about "one lone exile/defector/mercenary becoming an unlikely hero" shtick.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

If this was Skyrim and you were the lone exile then sure go for it but this is an MMO and you can't have 5000 people all be lone exiled defectors.

I certainly would want to see some drawbacks to reflect that, yeah. On the other hand... they do meet the minimum standards, they are intelligent (barely), they can interact with people (barely), they can craft and cast spells... it could be done. For some who want a special challenge...

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Not as a society. Specific ones with practice and training can communicate but not to the level of everyone else. It wouldn't work

True. But then, that makes it also interesting for them to give us a glimpse... and once they do that, making then playable if possible could be worth consideration.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

It can't be true that they're more interesting if they're kept mysterious but we should also get a glimpse of them. It's one or the other and no they shouldn't just be playable because all of a sudden we see them.

I kinda doubt that.
I really, really consider that claim to be complete bovine manure, that people would "leave ESO" because a race that HAS been around since the start of the game as antagonist for them to see and fight suddenly becomes playable as character. Especially since another race that also has been around as antagonists had been playable all this time, become more playable when the crown store made it easier to access, and there also are already people RPing as maormer and reachman characters... (I dimly remember even as gobbos!) wearing their crafting style, making a dunmer or breton character as close as they can in appearance, etc.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

You don't think people would quit if they just started arbitrarily shoehorning in races for $$$? I think they would. They also didn't just add in Imperials all of a sudden, Imperials have been playable since at least TES3 and they're not just antagonists. There's an entire game in the series where they're protagonists and the only reason they're so widely used in "classic" ESO as you put it is because they only had so many resources.

If people are already able to make maormer and reachman for RP then what would the purpose of selling them something they can already make in game? Do you think people that cosmetically RP are going to really need racial passives to RP with? RP isn't a valid reason to just add in more races.

And it WOULD make sense, lorewise and gamewise... not for the whole race of course, but... again, as a "exiled from their people" lone hero (or several, scattered around the landscape). Which I have to remind people IS kinda a classic cliché in such tales... from Conan the Cimmerian to Elric of Melniboné, from Drizzt Do'Urden to Makri of Turai...

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Again this would only make sense in a single player enviornment. This is an MMO and it wouldn't suddenly explain why there are 10,000 exiled Maromer or Reachman when they don't have the populations lorewise to sustain that kind of attrition. It doesn't make any sense at all to add them in.

Nah. I am merely listing the possibilities... it should be quite obvious by now that the race I myself would love to see would be maormer, not reachman. I am just saying, if they wanted to, they could do those too. Or not and just make the decision that all reachmen are just primitive bretons with slavic accent.
It. Is. Up. To. Them.
I am simply saying, the lore supports both options.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

The lore doesn't support both options, it supports one option

Once again. We see reachmen invading northern Bangkorai and the northeastern parts of the Rift, as well as Wrothgar. That does tell us a thing or two about the scope of their "territory" does it not?
Also, your much vaunted empire? Reachmen controlled that. Until Varen Aquillarios overthrew the line of longhouse emperors and snatched the crown (we know how his following attempt to also snatch dragonborn status ended).
And if you think cities is a measure of society, then you should read a history book about the mongols someday...
I mean, yeah, Reachmen are primitive. Just like many Argonians, or Bosmer.
Just like Cimmerians in another universe. Or many other classic fantasy cliché characters.
No reason not to allow them for those players who want to play a "barbarian" I would think.

Only question is - does ZOS want to go there? Once again, I only say, IF they do, the lore would support it, and if they don't, then the lore also supports reachmen just being a breton offshoot. And I still personally don't give two tugs of a dead doneys d... uhm... tail about if they ever do make reachmen, or not.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Like I said, just because the Reachman live there doesn't make it their territory they don't have any significant form of power in the region aside from attacking the occasional city. Even when they are antagonists they are the lowest level of enemies you can fight compared to the witches and hagravens they ally with. So you're right it does tell us a thing or two about them, however it is nothing that makes them look stand out in any way.

They also never controlled the empire, the empire had long fallen by then and the rest of the province was at war. They moved in and controlled the Imperial City establishing an empire that lasted 20ish years. Varen also didn't "snatch" the crown, he defeated the Longhouse emperors and he didn't try to "snatch" being a dragonborn. I can understand why someone with such a loose understand of the lore is so pro new races though.

The Mongols don't matter as we're talking about a videogame. Yes, I understand in our world cities aren't a measure of civilization but we're not talking about our world, we're talking about Tamriel. Yes, cities are an easy way to judge civilizations in Tamriel and no the Bosmer and Argonians aren't primitive in comparison to the Reachman.

It is plenty of reason to not allow them in, if you want to roll a barbarian there's already a few options in the game already

starkerealm wrote: »

Because there are ten "Imperial" races on Tamriel. Ten races that have, at one time or another, been part of the Tamerilic Empire. You might be familiar with this list, we have the Imperials, the Bretons, the Redguard, the Nords, the Altmer, the Bosmer, the Dunmer, the Orcs, the Argonians, and the Khajiit.

That is -almost- correct.
Well, at least at the time of ESO - the Cyrodillic empire NEVER got Morrowind, since emperor Reman II found the Dunmer led by the tribunal just too much to handle, and had to agree to a truce and give up on the idea in 1E 2910 - so... the dunmer never were subjects of the empire - at the time of ESO. (things will change when Talos pops up, mostly due to the tribunal having their own troubles at that time, but we know that story)

Anyhow, the Reman empire gave way to the akaviri potentate, and they lost a lot of their influence outside cyrodil... eventually crumbling down to the mess that gave birth to ESOs backstory when Varen took down the line of longhouse emperors, crowned himself, and tried to get dragonborn too.

starkerealm wrote: »

Those are the 10 "civilized" races of the Cyrodiilic Empire...

Others are "civilized" too, and at that time, the dunmer NEVER were part of the empire.
But yeah, I get what you are saying.
And this is exactly the reason why those races are the "common" ones.

BtW, technically Reachmen were also an "imperial" race, they even held the throne for a little while. Heck, even Akaviri (both human and snakepeople) held the imperial throne for a little while. Just sayin.

starkerealm wrote: »

With the exception of the Orcs, all of them have Imperial provinces that are their homelands (even though many of those homelands were adopted.)

...and the much more prominent exception of the dunmer...
...
...actually come to think of it...
...I also cannot recall ANY lore saying the altmer became part of the empire until Talos brought the Numidium agaist the second dominion. Best I can find was that the Reman dynasty got Valenwood in 1E 2714, but not a peep to them getting further then that...

starkerealm wrote: »

When you travel in an Imperial province, what you'll find is that roughly 90%-95% of that population are the native peoples, while the remaining 5-10% are from the other Imperial races.

True enough, though often there are other races present as well. Imga. Goblins. Minotaurs. Giants. Ogres. Lamia. Reachmen.
But... yeah, I get your point, mostly those races are "antagonists" that don't interact with the "civilized" people except over weapons clashing. Pretty much -exactly- like for example orcs or drow in D&D settings... but there being exceptions has been a staple cliché in fantasy stories, so...

starkerealm wrote: »

There are singular exceptions, a Maomer here, a Reachmen there...

Exactly.
And that is the very basis of me saying "they could do those particular races as rare player races if they wanted to" with the rarity done by crown store mechanics... I would expect for "uncommon" races like maormer or reachmen, say, double the price people pay for imperials, and "rare" races that would be really, really are hard to find due to being mostly extinct at this time yet still so "recently" extnct that there is a -slight- chance, like Lilmothiit or Kothringi, a "Radiant Apex" crown crate chance. IF they choose to go there.

starkerealm wrote: »

The fundamental difference between the Imperials and the Reachmen is that the Reachmen don't mingle. They're not a part of the empire, and they're not interested in forming diplomatic or trade relations with other provinces.

Except they were controlling the darn empire for about half a century or so! And still have diplomatic relations with then, as evidenced by the quest backstories in bangkorai. Heck, they had diplomatic relations with the bretons of high rock as well in the past, as occasional allies, and occasional enemies... and have diplomatic relations of a sort with the worm cult..
Yeah, they are more keen on barbaric raids and conquest rather then trade... but if you look at the lore, you will find that would be true for a lot of the other races in the past as well. Many orc tribes still are like that... (sure, most of them are wood orcs, but still...), and all the orcs -used- to be like that once upon a time... nords too if you think about it, they just mellowed since those times I guess?

starkerealm wrote: »

This is also what distinguishes them from the Orcs. The Reachmen aren't trying to build their own nation, and become a part of the larger Tamerillic culture, they're only interested in raiding it.

Wrong. They tried to do -exactly- that. Longhouse Emperors. They just messed it up.
The orsimer have tried and messed it up (or rather, got it messed up for them by their neighbors) in the past too, they just happened to try again this time in a more favorably political climate... and thus are getting somewhere while the reachmen just got back to their barbarian ways.

starkerealm wrote: »

The Lithmoti fall off for the same reason. They were always reclusive hermits, not a full civilization.

True as it goes. But... as I keep saying, that is a reason for the -race- but not for -individuals-.

And that is the main point.

ALL the reasons people cite here are reasons why a player character from those races would not be -common-; but none of those reasons make it -impossible- (unlike some other races, like dwemer or snow elves where the lore really would not work, or races like lamia or minotaurs where the size or body structure would make things iffy with landscape, or animations and gear system...)
All those reasons are reasons why those "possible" races should never become "free to play", but none of those reasons make it impossible for them to become playable - for an extra surcharge of sorts.

And if you were completely honest, you would have to agree that some exiled maormer or reachman getting caught up in the soulburst troubles and becoming a sort of "unlikely hero" for one side in the chaos of the interregnum is still more lore-conforming then some of the apex mounts we see, right?

starkerealm wrote: »

The Maomer and Akaviri fall off because they're not from Tamriel. Again, they really don't mingle.

The akaviri used to mingle... at least those who were with the first invasion, the mingled right into the reman empire forces. And we do know some survivors of the recent invasion will eventually mingle with desendants of the first and make a bit of trouble...

And the Maormer do mingle. Occasionally, and in small numbers, and only when the altmer are not involved - like on Kenarthis Roost before the altmer got involved to lead to the events we quest through... heck, they were also happy to mingle with the veiled heritage when it suited them, or did they not?

But once again.
Reasons for the -race-, not for individuals. its entirely possible some maormer or akaviri might flee from their homelands, or be exiled in some way, left behind from some raid/invasion, and choose to join up with one of the armies there as mercenary. That is in fact how the akaviri influence got into the imperials in the first place!
And if you look at some of the questings... well, we DO have some hints that not ALL maormer are raging xenophobes, and some do in fact fall in love with even altmer... who is to say that only happened this once, and not some other times, and ended in the couple fleeing from altmer lands to settle in a different corner of tamriel where noone gave a rats arse about what kind of elf they were? And we do meet more then enough "left behind" maormer in various places...

starkerealm wrote: »

If we were going to see living Akaviri, it would have been in Northern Elsweyr, but that didn't happen.

Well, the lore does say there are survivors of the Dir-Kamal invasion (that's the one ten years before ESO), and that they will make their way to join up with the descendants of the first invasion near rimmen, and make an unsuccessful push for the ruby thronw... but it does not say when, just that it happens sometime during the interregnum and spawned a series of bloody border wars...
...since it didn't happen with Elsweyr (because they were busy with dragons, and have only so much they can work on I reckon), I am guessing it will happen a while after ESO?

starkerealm wrote: »

I also seriously doubt that we'll see Akavir in ESO.

Agreed.
Not in the least as it might be too big a place to touch... like I also keep saying, IF they ever decide to give us a glimpse of akaviri culture, it would be by doing an expansion covering the three large islands in between, which at this point in time definitely would be in akaviri hands...

starkerealm wrote: »

Same thing with any, "Return of the Dwarves," plot. That wouldn't be a little side event that we got to see but couldn't record. No, that would be An Event. Maybe that's TES6... or 7. We'll see.

Yeah, that one is definitely out. Since there is absolutely No Way, any "Return of the Dwemer" could possibly pass unnoticed - so if that were to ever happen, it would have to happen long -after- recorded Lore on the timeline...