‘Suggestion’ to make Hircine’s Rage...

Wuuffyy · May 2020

Minimum threshold 90-100% instead of 100%.
Or at least not cost anything when cast at 95% or higher with lower stam return.

...Cause Dots.

Ruder · May 2020

I`ll copy/paste my post from the previous thread

I sent ZOS feedback with the following proposal:

Remover the Major Berserker buff and replace it with Unique Damage done modifier that scales down with % of missing health up to 25% of the missing health:

For example
- Healing on 100% health you get the full 25% damage done and 25% damage taken buff/debuff
- Healing on 90% health you get the 15% damage done and 15% damage taken buff/debuff
- Healing below 75% health you get no buff/debuff

Wuuffyy · May 2020

Ruder wrote: »

I`ll copy/paste my post from the previous thread

I sent ZOS feedback with the following proposal:

Remover the Major Berserker buff and replace it with Unique Damage done modifier that scales down with % of missing health up to 25% of the missing health:

For example
- Healing on 100% health you get the full 25% damage done and 25% damage taken buff/debuff
- Healing on 90% health you get the 15% damage done and 15% damage taken buff/debuff
- Healing below 75% health you get no buff/debuff

That is really cool and fits in line with the way Werewolf heals. Maybe even 75% being like 20%, and 50 being 15 w/no downsides.

Wuuffyy · May 2020

Any updates?

Giljabrar · May 2020

It's fine in its current state.

Wuuffyy · May 2020

Giljabrar wrote: »

It's fine in its current state.

Who are you? Have you tested this? How many times do you proc this in normal combat? I honestly think everything you play is fine to TBH. It’s so fine it needs nerfs... sound fine?

Just wondering. Thank you for that information in advance!

Giljabrar · May 2020

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

It's fine in its current state.

Who are you? Have you tested this? How many times do you proc this in normal combat? I honestly think everything you play is fine to TBH. It’s so fine it needs nerfs... sound fine?

Just wondering. Thank you for that information in advance!

I'm some guy on the forums. Used this in several duels and in some BG's. I was able to proc it fairly often in BG before basically any engagement. Does it proc in combat as often? No, but it's a heal. The buff is a secondary effect, and shouldn't be looked at as on demand major brutality.

It's situationally strong, and seems in a good spot imo

Wuuffyy · May 2020

Giljabrar wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

It's fine in its current state.

Who are you? Have you tested this? How many times do you proc this in normal combat? I honestly think everything you play is fine to TBH. It’s so fine it needs nerfs... sound fine?

Just wondering. Thank you for that information in advance!

I'm some guy on the forums. Used this in several duels and in some BG's. I was able to proc it fairly often in BG before basically any engagement. Does it proc in combat as often? No, but it's a heal. The buff is a secondary effect, and shouldn't be looked at as on demand major brutality.

It's situationally strong, and seems in a good spot imo

Two people who did a 10 min duel that main werewolf and frequently make posts in regards to werewolf bugs, features, etc. Stated a whopping 2 procs in typical combat. Mind you that it still cost the full magic amount to proc this effect here. Even on paper, due to dots in PvP, lag, Gcds, etc. It doesn’t seem like you will be able to proc it enough to make it worthwhile and/or meaningful in anyway. Keep in mind the downside is suppose to be the kiss curse effect and double magic cost. Not the ability to not be able to use it.

This is whole point is to help werewolf keep a strong amount of damage, due to, once again, all the loss building and transforming gives you.

I mean as a vampire at stage 1. You have access to all your abilities, and at the low cost of like 500 or 1000 health a sec (which you can lower easily, I believe), you can get anywhere from 500-1000 wep and spell (unbuffed). Which falls within the range of a 10-40% increase in damage without taking up the slot of a special buff (albeit less widespride than other major buffs here).

If anything, I think an additional cast of Rage and Fortitude at max health cost 0 resources and then I would agree with you (maybe take off or disminish the stam return here too... think dark deal however in this aspect).

Qbiken · May 2020

Giljabrar wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

It's fine in its current state.

Who are you? Have you tested this? How many times do you proc this in normal combat? I honestly think everything you play is fine to TBH. It’s so fine it needs nerfs... sound fine?

Just wondering. Thank you for that information in advance!

I'm some guy on the forums. Used this in several duels and in some BG's. I was able to proc it fairly often in BG before basically any engagement. Does it proc in combat as often? No, but it's a heal. The buff is a secondary effect, and shouldn't be looked at as on demand major brutality.

It's situationally strong, and seems in a good spot imo

I was able to proc it fairly often in BG before basically any engagement

And that´s the only occasion which you´ll be able to activate the additional effects from the heal. Unless you´re in a situation with a huge amount of cross healing going on (more or less zerging in Cyrodil), you´ll never meet the conditions to get major berserk. Werewolf is a brawler, not a burst tool, so it makes no sense for a werewolf to only have access to a powerful damage buff (that also comes ith 23% extra damage taken, which is perfectly fine btw) before entering combat. It´s not about having "easy access" to major berserk, it´s about being able to activate it in realistic situations at all. Lowering the proc threshhold to 80-85% would still make it situational, but not impossible to reach.

Does it proc in combat as often? No, but it's a heal.

Yes it´s a heal (which cost almost 6k magicka), which also makes it an already huge trade off to spam while at full HP to gain a powerful damage boost.

The buff is a secondary effect, and shouldn't be looked at as on demand major brutality.

Doesn´t matter if it´s a secondary effect or not. Why redesign a skill if you´re going to make it almost impossible to reach the right conditions to benefit from them? Even the tiniest DoT, LA or bash will drop you down from 100% HP

Hircine´s Rage in it´s current state on PTS will never be used if it goes live like this. Any werewolf player (at least from a PvP perspective) will continue to use Hircine´s Fortitude since it´s vastly superior in every single way compared to rage.

Wuuffyy · May 2020

Qbiken wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

It's fine in its current state.

Who are you? Have you tested this? How many times do you proc this in normal combat? I honestly think everything you play is fine to TBH. It’s so fine it needs nerfs... sound fine?

Just wondering. Thank you for that information in advance!

I'm some guy on the forums. Used this in several duels and in some BG's. I was able to proc it fairly often in BG before basically any engagement. Does it proc in combat as often? No, but it's a heal. The buff is a secondary effect, and shouldn't be looked at as on demand major brutality.

It's situationally strong, and seems in a good spot imo

I was able to proc it fairly often in BG before basically any engagement

And that´s the only occasion which you´ll be able to activate the additional effects from the heal. Unless you´re in a situation with a huge amount of cross healing going on (more or less zerging in Cyrodil), you´ll never meet the conditions to get major berserk. Werewolf is a brawler, not a burst tool, so it makes no sense for a werewolf to only have access to a powerful damage buff (that also comes ith 23% extra damage taken, which is perfectly fine btw) before entering combat. It´s not about having "easy access" to major berserk, it´s about being able to activate it in realistic situations at all. Lowering the proc threshhold to 80-85% would still make it situational, but not impossible to reach.

Does it proc in combat as often? No, but it's a heal.

Yes it´s a heal (which cost almost 6k magicka), which also makes it an already huge trade off to spam while at full HP to gain a powerful damage boost.

The buff is a secondary effect, and shouldn't be looked at as on demand major brutality.

Doesn´t matter if it´s a secondary effect or not. Why redesign a skill if you´re going to make it almost impossible to reach the right conditions to benefit from them? Even the tiniest DoT, LA or bash will drop you down from 100% HP

Hircine´s Rage in it´s current state on PTS will never be used if it goes live like this. Any werewolf player (at least from a PvP perspective) will continue to use Hircine´s Fortitude since it´s vastly superior in every single way compared to rage.

Agreed.

Giljabrar · May 2020

I quite enjoy the lengths you two go to say, I disagree.

I'll keep my reply simple. Seems fine to me.

Wuuffyy · May 2020

Giljabrar wrote: »

I quite enjoy the lengths you two go to say, I disagree.

I'll keep my reply simple. Seems fine to me.

Because we are defending our points. On the other hand. A short response simply means, I don’t know how to respond to that, I don’t know what I’m talking about, or I haven’t done my research. Usually. Not always.

Giljabrar · May 2020

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

I quite enjoy the lengths you two go to say, I disagree.

I'll keep my reply simple. Seems fine to me.

Because we are defending our points. On the other hand. A short response simply means, I don’t know how to respond to that, I don’t know what I’m talking about, or I haven’t done my research. Usually. Not always.

I already made my case, I think it's fine the way it is on PTS, and enjoy the changes to WW.

Major Berserk is a VERY strong effect to have, even when it balanced with increased damage taken. So I think it's limited use time is warranted.

You can use this skill to buff your damage before engaging, and I think that it's in a balanced spot right now.

[Snip]

[Edited for bait]

ZOS_Volpe · May 2020

Greetings,

We've had to remove a few baiting comments. Please remember that while it’s alright to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable on our forums.

Wuuffyy · May 2020

ZOS_TrishM wrote: »

Greetings,

We've had to remove a few baiting comments. Please remember that while it’s alright to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable on our forums.

Is any ZOS dev willing to give us information on whether player-based feedback is going to be implemented on this PTS for werewolf or not.

I for one feel like it’s headed in the right direction and with some tweaks on some of the changed skills, we might be in a good spot for both PvP and PvE.

SGT_Courtney · May 2020

Agreed

Wuuffyy · May 2020

SGT_Courtney wrote: »

Agreed

Well, thank you soo much!

Wuuffyy · May 2020

SGT_Courtney wrote: »

Agreed

Just checking for any updates. Keep thinking about it more and more as yet another useless morph in the books(especially out of a line with only 5 skills, that is kinda sad game developing).

Wuuffyy · May 2020

This move has too many downsides to go against potency and horrific uptime.

25% more damage taken
5-6k magic cost to activate (or likewise fail to activate)
Only applicable at 100% and over (which only works at the very beginning of fights, or on a dummy)

Should either have threshold lowered, duration extended significantly, magic cost removed at 95% and above), give the bonus when you overheal, or instead give major fracture on Lights and heavies for 10 seconds or something.

Aznox · May 2020

Giljabrar wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

It's fine in its current state.

Who are you? Have you tested this? How many times do you proc this in normal combat? I honestly think everything you play is fine to TBH. It’s so fine it needs nerfs... sound fine?

Just wondering. Thank you for that information in advance!

I'm some guy on the forums. Used this in several duels and in some BG's. I was able to proc it fairly often in BG before basically any engagement. Does it proc in combat as often? No, but it's a heal. The buff is a secondary effect, and shouldn't be looked at as on demand major brutality.

It's situationally strong, and seems in a good spot imo

You guys are able to get into BG's on the PTS ? I've been in queue for hours and never got any.

Giljabrar · May 2020

Aznox wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Giljabrar wrote: »

It's fine in its current state.

Who are you? Have you tested this? How many times do you proc this in normal combat? I honestly think everything you play is fine to TBH. It’s so fine it needs nerfs... sound fine?

Just wondering. Thank you for that information in advance!

I'm some guy on the forums. Used this in several duels and in some BG's. I was able to proc it fairly often in BG before basically any engagement. Does it proc in combat as often? No, but it's a heal. The buff is a secondary effect, and shouldn't be looked at as on demand major brutality.

It's situationally strong, and seems in a good spot imo

You guys are able to get into BG's on the PTS ? I've been in queue for hours and never got any.

You basically have to be there the same day as an update comes or it's dead, or bring your guild over and queue up as we did last week.

Chrlynsch · May 2020

Not sure why it has the 100% health proc condition on it.

If there was no negative effect associated with Major Berserk... sure... but as it is now it this effect is as much of a boon for the wolf's enemies as it is for the wolf.

"I Caius have chosen the life as a true Berserker werewolf, my goal is to amplify my killing power at all costs, Hircine's Rage focuses my power into an offensive onslaught an.... oops, must have had a sliver in my paw, didn't take what a crappy morph, time to go back to a target dummy to show off my new leeet dps though"

Wuuffyy · May 2020

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Not sure why it has the 100% health proc condition on it.

If there was no negative effect associated with Major Berserk... sure... but as it is now it this effect is as much of a boon for the wolf's enemies as it is for the wolf.

"I Caius have chosen the life as a true Berserker werewolf, my goal is to amplify my killing power at all costs, Hircine's Rage focuses my power into an offensive onslaught an.... oops, must have had a sliver in my paw, didn't take what a crappy morph, time to go back to a target dummy to show off my new leeet dps though"

Lol. Correct.

Somnilux · May 2020

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Not sure why it has the 100% health proc condition on it.

If there was no negative effect associated with Major Berserk... sure... but as it is now it this effect is as much of a boon for the wolf's enemies as it is for the wolf.

"I Caius have chosen the life as a true Berserker werewolf, my goal is to amplify my killing power at all costs, Hircine's Rage focuses my power into an offensive onslaught an.... oops, must have had a sliver in my paw, didn't take what a crappy morph, time to go back to a target dummy to show off my new leeet dps though"

Because its designed to be the pve morph where you spent 99% of the time at full health with hots always ticking, and not meant to break werewolves in pvp, where they want you taking the other morph.

Wuuffyy · May 2020

Somnilux wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Not sure why it has the 100% health proc condition on it.

If there was no negative effect associated with Major Berserk... sure... but as it is now it this effect is as much of a boon for the wolf's enemies as it is for the wolf.

"I Caius have chosen the life as a true Berserker werewolf, my goal is to amplify my killing power at all costs, Hircine's Rage focuses my power into an offensive onslaught an.... oops, must have had a sliver in my paw, didn't take what a crappy morph, time to go back to a target dummy to show off my new leeet dps though"

Because its designed to be the pve morph where you spent 99% of the time at full health with hots always ticking, and not meant to break werewolves in pvp, where they want you taking the other morph.

It’s not designed as the PvE morph lol. They are both supposed to be usable in all aspects, lol. What? And they still haven’t fixed the major call of the pack bug yet and we are 1 more patch from live. WW might not be possible at all next patch.