ESO either needs to be retuned, or brand new "hard mode" servers added. I can't stop yawning.

kargen27

The daily rewards help new players. Beyond that they are really insignificant. The ease of most overland content also geared towards the new players.
The economy in ESO is thriving. That 10,000 gold will help a new player increase their characters bag space and maybe get some materials so they can begin leveling crafting. It isn't going to make a dent in the games economy.

I would like to see ZoS introduce some foods and drinks that instead of boosting our stats hinder our characters in a variety of ways to provide a way for harder overland. If that is not introduced I will still do the quests and repeat the story line because I like the stories. After a couple of quests I go do battle with a world boss maybe two and/or join in on a vet dungeon run or trial. Just gotta mix it up some. Plenty of things to do for players of all skill levels. Don't get stuck in a rut of doing just one thing.

Dahveed

Anumaril wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

They used to have "hard mode" versions of all the base game zones like Auridon, Rivenspire, etc. And Craglorn overland used to be designed with groups in mind and pulling a couple wasps solo was practically a death sentence. But it was incredibly unpopular, the "vet zones" were largely empty, and One Tamriel merged everything into single zones where players scale up to max level. And it was a tremendous success.

Casual players want casual content to be casual. And there are not enough players who want overland mobs to be tedious hit-point sponges for that to have appeal.

I very much enjoy the changes brought by One Tamriel, I only wish that they would address the dificulty. I've read posts by other people suggesting a 'Nightmare' mode or something where we are severely weakened, can't use soul gems to resurrect, etc. To me that sounds like a delight for those of us who have reached max lvl and are too powerful for overland content no matter what we do.

I made posts about it in the past. I don't want to link them for fear of uber-necroing years-old threads, but you basically get mobbed by the same "YOU THINK YOU DO BUT YOU DON'T" crowd who don't want to lose their snowflake mode.

Basically my idea was to add a debuff to the actual player, without touching any of the game's content. That way there would be no balance changes to worry about and it wouldn't impact anyone who didn't want to participate.

Just think of WoW's resurrection sickness.... when you rez at a spirit healer without doing the corpse run, you get a huge debuff to your max hp and damage dealt, etc. They would just need to take that concept and apply it as a "hard mode" debuff to my character alone.

You want nightmare mode? Here you go! Your character is now debuffed with -50% health, -50% damage dealt, and -50% magicka and stamina. Your damage taken is doubled and all your cooldowns are doubled. No other players are affected, no npcs are touched, NOTHING changes for captain newbie on snowflake story mode, so no dev resources are spent on balance changes.

God I would love this.

devaneiosonho

I agree a little bit about the difficulty. The game really is excessively easy, even for new players.

Coming from WoW, I was playing like a monkey, so I actually died here and there, but all of this stopped once I actually started to pay attention. Using demons to do everything for you can really have an impact, lol.

Now, Classic is as overrated as it can get. Try using a mage and you'll see how the easy mode works. Two spells and you can kill almost every mob around the world. AND you have a pretty big mana pool, so you can just relax, polymorph and throw some frostbolts. Vanilla is unbalaced as ***, not "hard". Mages, warlocks and hunters have it actually pretty easy, while warriors have it ridiculously hard.

Dahveed

devaneiosonho wrote: »

I agree a little bit about the difficulty. The game really is excessively easy, even for new players.

Coming from WoW, I was playing like a monkey, so I actually died here and there, but all of this stopped once I actually started to pay attention. Using demons to do everything for you can really have an impact, lol.

Now, Classic is as overrated as it can get. Try using a mage and you'll see how the easy mode works. Two spells and you can kill almost every mob around the world. AND you have a pretty big mana pool, so you can just relax, polymorph and throw some frostbolts. Vanilla is unbalaced as ***, not "hard". Mages, warlocks and hunters have it actually pretty easy, while warriors have it ridiculously hard.

I agree on some level, but this thread isn't about class balance. Of course hunters and mages have an easier time, being ranged classes... hunters especially are ultra-easy mode for leveling.

But there are still things to pay attention to. I'm playing classic with 2 friends, we have a prot pally, a mage and a holy priest, all in the teens. Even with a prot tank, a healer, and a mage to nova and poly everything, we still get in HUGE trouble all the time just questing when we're not paying attention to patrolling NPCs or respawns, or if we just bite off more than we can chew.

Mana is always an issue, money is always an issue, and npcs actually deal damage, especially to a cloth wearer.

Spacemonkey

Not necessarily a hard mode, but bringing back end-game zones (Why on earth did they GUT Craglorn again?) would be nice, or at least the option to enter those zones in a 'vet' difficulty or something.

The only thing remotely challenging anymore is Vet dungeons and Trials and arenas, all instances with no chance of public encounters.

Klad

Ummm..no one is forcing you to play.

And honestly the devs are intelligent enough to know not to take anything someone on the forum asks for seriously, especially the old worn out trope of "Waaaaa it's too easy!!!!!" they simply know that other MMO's have fallen for this and they have regretted it.

Play any other MMO today and the difficulty is on par with ESO, it's that way for a reason.

Knightpanther

How long have you been playing ESO? Because you obviously dont grasp the concept.
Overland PVE is supposed to be relaxing, exploring,questing if you want hard stuff go do end game PVE or try your luck in PvP.

Be Safe

Rave the Histborn

Dahveed wrote: »

I know, I know, "I think I do, but I don't!"
-the comments


NOTE: BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT RAIDS AND VET DUNGEONS ETC, I'M TALKING ABOUT SOLO EXPLORATION. You may proceed

Other people have said it before, and this person has already beaten me to the punch: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/524584/why-is-this-game-so-easy/p1

There are too many enemies, and they are all laughable. ESO exploration feels like a repetitive game for children.

I would also like to point out how utterly broken the economy is.

I've been playing WoW classic lately on brand new toons, and it feels like every tiny scrap you collect, every copper, has value. I go to train my skills or buy some mana water, and I have to weigh every option carefully. Every penny counts, and every quest reward feels satisfying. I rolled a new paladin on a fresh server, and after about 5 hours of playing I now have something like 4 silver and 83 copper.

Contrast that with ESO. Look at the daily rewards for this month. "Oh look, you logged in, here's 10,000 gold. YES THAT'S RIGHT TEN THOUSAND GOLD... After all you earned it didn't you? You logged in and then clicked a button. Good lord that is awful.

Not sure if it's intentional to constantly tank the value of gold so that Crowns are more valuable? I dunno, I never really use the crown store.


As much as I love many aspects of ESO (story, dialogue, lore, exploration etc), the gameplay is just awful. I always tolerated it, but after coming back from playing classic WoW - which is now almost TWO DECADES OLD, by the way - I now truly realize how terrible it really is.

Awful, awful game design, no semblance whatsoever of variety or balance in the questing experience, and a completely laughable economy. (Seriously, 10k gold just for logging in, what the hell.)

I've asked for it before, I don't suppose it'll ever happen, but some kind of hard mode server or something is desperately needed. After just a few months of classic WoW I can barely even stomach this game anymore.

There are too many enemies, and they are all laughable. ESO exploration feels like a repetitive game for children.
Overland is too easy. Compares it to WoW.
You mean the game where they've consistently made it easier for years? Where you can buy your max lvl champ outright? I mean I remember exploring WoW, it is the exploration equivalent of being in a coma. The quests are boring, the enemies, are boring, and the landscapes are uninspired at best. The strategy games storylines were great, the MMO storylines in WoW weren't. Oh is is there another betrayl in the Horde? Oh is something threating Lordaeron again? Are the undead revolting again?

I would also like to point out how utterly broken the economy is.
Still in better shape then WoW's

I've been playing WoW classic lately on brand new toons, and it feels like every tiny scrap you collect, every copper, has value. I go to train my skills or buy some mana water, and I have to weigh every option carefully. Every penny counts, and every quest reward feels satisfying. I rolled a new paladin on a fresh server, and after about 5 hours of playing I now have something like 4 silver and 83 copper.

Guys, like why is the overland this game so easy? I've got like 3000 hours in this one but it's just not cutting it anymore. I tried this new MMO, X, and man it is hard when you first start out.

Awful, awful game design, no semblance whatsoever of variety or balance in the questing experience, and a completely laughable economy.

You're talking about WoW right? Because that's why I left around WotLK. I can only do so many kill target quests and fetch quests and from lvl 1-70.
I heard you like dungeons, have you tried this one called tank and spank? Ok, now what if I do it for every dungeon? Hard yet?
I remember tanking Kharazan when it was one of their hardest trials and the last boss you could just stand in 1 spot to avoid all the mechanics XD
Come use the AH where the common goods aren't worth posting and the rich items are too pricey for you to afford.

Contrast that with ESO. Look at the daily rewards for this month. "Oh look, you logged in, here's 10,000 gold. YES THAT'S RIGHT TEN THOUSAND GOLD... After all you earned it didn't you? You logged in and then clicked a button. Good lord that is awful.

Well I mean 10k gold isn't that much in ESO, that and WoW just throws money at you. I remember when affording mount trainings was something you bragged about, now they just give you tons of gold for every quest. That's because of years of inflation and a broken economy though.

Can't you buy a max level champion in WoW? I mean after all you went to your job so you earned that max level champ right? Good lord that is even worse

I've asked for it before, I don't suppose it'll ever happen, but some kind of hard mode server or something is desperately needed. After just a few months of classic WoW I can barely even stomach this game anymore.

Green weapons, no CP, no armor. It's pretty clear you're trying to clear a brand new gaming experience (5hours of time) vs an endgame experience with hundreds if not thousands of hours of time.

Isarii

I said it in the other thread and I'll say it here -

Steal the idea of world tiers with increasing difficulty from games like The Division 2 and incentivize playing in an increased difficulty tier with commensurately higher XP, gold, and rare item drop chance. This keeps the easy content there for those who need it while incentivizing players to hone their builds and move into the more challenging content at their own pace.

The repeatable overworld content in this game would be so much more engaging and enjoyable for veteran players if they had to actually use their brains while playing the game instead of just two or three shotting endless trash mobs, killing bosses before they have a chance to use any mechanics, and sprinting through packs of mobs because none of them even pose a challenge.

It wouldn't be the easiest thing to implement, but I really do think it would be worthwhile by making the minute-to-minute gameplay more fun for veteran players while giving solo players an actual reason to engage with the game's buildcraft.

Spacemonkey

Isarii wrote: »

I said it in the other thread and I'll say it here -

Steal the idea of world tiers with increasing difficulty from games like The Division 2 and incentivize playing in an increased difficulty tier with commensurately higher XP, gold, and rare item drop chance. This keeps the easy content there for those who need it while incentivizing players to hone their builds and move into the more challenging content at their own pace.

The repeatable overworld content in this game would be so much more engaging and enjoyable for veteran players if they had to actually use their brains while playing the game instead of just two or three shotting endless trash mobs, killing bosses before they have a chance to use any mechanics, and sprinting through packs of mobs because none of them even pose a challenge.

It wouldn't be the easiest thing to implement, but I really do think it would be worthwhile by making the minute-to-minute gameplay more fun for veteran players while giving solo players an actual reason to engage with the game's buildcraft.

This was basically Craglorn....

BlueRaven

Noxavian wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

NOTE: BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT RAIDS AND VET DUNGEONS ETC, I'M TALKING ABOUT SOLO EXPLORATION. You may proceed

Sorry, @Dahveed, you're playing an MMO not a solo game.

Find games that cater to that playstyle instead of cherry-picking a few unrepresentative parts of ESO to complain about.

ESO used to be like that though.

Back when ZONES had levels, things were pretty tough.

Not sure what you're smoking, the OP has a perfectly valid point.

Eso also started hemorrhaging players because getting them to max vet level was too hard. Then they rebalanced they game and more people started playing.

There is not going to be an increase in overland difficulty because this is a company that would like to pull a profit. Understand?

Isarii

Spacemonkey wrote: »

Isarii wrote: »

I said it in the other thread and I'll say it here -

Steal the idea of world tiers with increasing difficulty from games like The Division 2 and incentivize playing in an increased difficulty tier with commensurately higher XP, gold, and rare item drop chance. This keeps the easy content there for those who need it while incentivizing players to hone their builds and move into the more challenging content at their own pace.

The repeatable overworld content in this game would be so much more engaging and enjoyable for veteran players if they had to actually use their brains while playing the game instead of just two or three shotting endless trash mobs, killing bosses before they have a chance to use any mechanics, and sprinting through packs of mobs because none of them even pose a challenge.

It wouldn't be the easiest thing to implement, but I really do think it would be worthwhile by making the minute-to-minute gameplay more fun for veteran players while giving solo players an actual reason to engage with the game's buildcraft.

This was basically Craglorn....

Eh, not exactly - I probably should have actually described what I'm talking about huh. World Tiers in this sense is the ability to opt into a higher difficulty instance of the entire overworld where difficulty via things like health pools, mob damage - enemy tactics / reaction times required if we want to be really fancy - are turned up across the board. So it's the same content, just a bit harder.

Craglorn is kind of like this - and I like it for its similarities. But the idea here is to make all the content optionally more difficult and engaging, rather than just a little pocket of it.

Lokryn

I think the problem is the disparity between CP and Non-CP players in overland content. It's way too easy for me as well. They really need to tweak it so it's more challenging for CP players. Much of this game's content is new zones coming out every few quarters and those of us who have high CP just can't enjoy them as much. It's a shame.

Dahveed

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

I know, I know, "I think I do, but I don't!"
-the comments


NOTE: BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT RAIDS AND VET DUNGEONS ETC, I'M TALKING ABOUT SOLO EXPLORATION. You may proceed

Other people have said it before, and this person has already beaten me to the punch: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/524584/why-is-this-game-so-easy/p1

There are too many enemies, and they are all laughable. ESO exploration feels like a repetitive game for children.

I would also like to point out how utterly broken the economy is.

I've been playing WoW classic lately on brand new toons, and it feels like every tiny scrap you collect, every copper, has value. I go to train my skills or buy some mana water, and I have to weigh every option carefully. Every penny counts, and every quest reward feels satisfying. I rolled a new paladin on a fresh server, and after about 5 hours of playing I now have something like 4 silver and 83 copper.

Contrast that with ESO. Look at the daily rewards for this month. "Oh look, you logged in, here's 10,000 gold. YES THAT'S RIGHT TEN THOUSAND GOLD... After all you earned it didn't you? You logged in and then clicked a button. Good lord that is awful.

Not sure if it's intentional to constantly tank the value of gold so that Crowns are more valuable? I dunno, I never really use the crown store.


As much as I love many aspects of ESO (story, dialogue, lore, exploration etc), the gameplay is just awful. I always tolerated it, but after coming back from playing classic WoW - which is now almost TWO DECADES OLD, by the way - I now truly realize how terrible it really is.

Awful, awful game design, no semblance whatsoever of variety or balance in the questing experience, and a completely laughable economy. (Seriously, 10k gold just for logging in, what the hell.)

I've asked for it before, I don't suppose it'll ever happen, but some kind of hard mode server or something is desperately needed. After just a few months of classic WoW I can barely even stomach this game anymore.

There are too many enemies, and they are all laughable. ESO exploration feels like a repetitive game for children.
Overland is too easy. Compares it to WoW.
You mean the game where they've consistently made it easier for years? Where you can buy your max lvl champ outright? I mean I remember exploring WoW, it is the exploration equivalent of being in a coma. The quests are boring, the enemies, are boring, and the landscapes are uninspired at best. The strategy games storylines were great, the MMO storylines in WoW weren't. Oh is is there another betrayl in the Horde? Oh is something threating Lordaeron again? Are the undead revolting again?

I would also like to point out how utterly broken the economy is.
Still in better shape then WoW's

I've been playing WoW classic lately on brand new toons, and it feels like every tiny scrap you collect, every copper, has value. I go to train my skills or buy some mana water, and I have to weigh every option carefully. Every penny counts, and every quest reward feels satisfying. I rolled a new paladin on a fresh server, and after about 5 hours of playing I now have something like 4 silver and 83 copper.

Guys, like why is the overland this game so easy? I've got like 3000 hours in this one but it's just not cutting it anymore. I tried this new MMO, X, and man it is hard when you first start out.

Awful, awful game design, no semblance whatsoever of variety or balance in the questing experience, and a completely laughable economy.

You're talking about WoW right? Because that's why I left around WotLK. I can only do so many kill target quests and fetch quests and from lvl 1-70.
I heard you like dungeons, have you tried this one called tank and spank? Ok, now what if I do it for every dungeon? Hard yet?
I remember tanking Kharazan when it was one of their hardest trials and the last boss you could just stand in 1 spot to avoid all the mechanics XD
Come use the AH where the common goods aren't worth posting and the rich items are too pricey for you to afford.

Contrast that with ESO. Look at the daily rewards for this month. "Oh look, you logged in, here's 10,000 gold. YES THAT'S RIGHT TEN THOUSAND GOLD... After all you earned it didn't you? You logged in and then clicked a button. Good lord that is awful.

Well I mean 10k gold isn't that much in ESO, that and WoW just throws money at you. I remember when affording mount trainings was something you bragged about, now they just give you tons of gold for every quest. That's because of years of inflation and a broken economy though.

Can't you buy a max level champion in WoW? I mean after all you went to your job so you earned that max level champ right? Good lord that is even worse

I've asked for it before, I don't suppose it'll ever happen, but some kind of hard mode server or something is desperately needed. After just a few months of classic WoW I can barely even stomach this game anymore.

Green weapons, no CP, no armor. It's pretty clear you're trying to clear a brand new gaming experience (5hours of time) vs an endgame experience with hundreds if not thousands of hours of time.

Thanks for sarcastically strawmanning every one of my arguments in the worst possible light. That will *totally* convince me. /rolls eyes

Also, I agree with you wholeheartedly that retail WoW is broken. That's why I quit playing it, and that's why I'm talking about CLASSIC WOW, not retail. Half the examples you gave were in reference to retail, which is a complete disaster by every metric, except profits for the company.

Also, ESO wasn't hard (at all) when I first started out. It was a complete walk, and I posted about it back then, too. As did others. As many others still do. Lots of people are constantly complaining on these forums about the overworld being too easy, and several different solutions have been proposed as to how this could be addressed without drastically overhauling game balance.

Then sarcastic jerks like you come in and completely derail the conversation, without attention to detail. (i.e., lumping in classic WoW and retail WoW together as though they are even REMOTELY similar.)

Taleof2Cities

In before thread lock ...

Malmai

Grinding trash mobs should be easy in mmo... My suggestion maybe you should play single player game like dark souls or something like that if you need challange? Maybe join cyrodiil i bet you will find real challange there.

Matchimus

Don't want the 10k then go spend it on useless weapons at a NPC. You choose the difficulty.

JanTanhide

The answer is pre One Tamriel. Return Craglorn to it's previous glory. Those were the days.

RedTalon

10k gold is worthless so yeah need better rewards for loogins

Dahveed

RedTalon wrote: »

10k gold is worthless so yeah need better rewards for loogins

Telling me that 10k gold is worthless basically proves my point. The economy is broken.

Think about 10,000 gold for just one second. Think about how that is literally impossible for a human being to even carry on their person.

Then think about how much gold your character has right now. (I think my main has about 400,000).

And then realize how ridiculous that is...

Sylvermynx

Considering how broke my characters always were in WoW and RIFT, I'm absolutely thrilled that gold is so easy to come by in this game. In fact, when I started playing ESO, I set out to just make gold so I wasn't always wanting to have enough for whatever....

So now after a couple of years, I have a million plus gold on both accounts, both megaservers. Works for me. I don't spend a lot.... mostly on housing....

I don't find it ridiculous, personally. And I do love the gold, AP, and Tel Var rewards toward the end of the month.

karekiz

Dahveed wrote: »

RedTalon wrote: »

10k gold is worthless so yeah need better rewards for loogins

Telling me that 10k gold is worthless basically proves my point. The economy is broken.

Think about 10,000 gold for just one second.

Thats a couple cheap motifs /shrug.

kargen27

Dahveed wrote: »

RedTalon wrote: »

10k gold is worthless so yeah need better rewards for loogins

Telling me that 10k gold is worthless basically proves my point. The economy is broken.

Think about 10,000 gold for just one second. Think about how that is literally impossible for a human being to even carry on their person.

Then think about how much gold your character has right now. (I think my main has about 400,000).

And then realize how ridiculous that is...

That is a road you probably don't want to go down. I have one character carrying five complete armor sets in a bag. Possible to carry should not be criteria for being allowed or disallowed in the game.

The economy is very good in ESO right now. Most players can eventually afford all that they need and some of what they want. Inflation in the game has been mostly kept in check. Trying to compare across games and/or real life doesn't work. Gold is more common in ESO than WoW apparently. That doesn't mean the economy of either game is broken. Only means they are different.

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

As this thread has begun to derail with baiting commentary, we've decided to close it down. Please remember that while it’s alright to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable on our forums. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful with the Forum Rules in mind.

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