xaraan wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

First off I have to say some of the straight comparisons are disingenuous, there will always be more magical offerings from a class than stam morphs - they have one offensive weapon to use, stam users have three. Probably be a more honest comparison to look at what other classes have for stam morphs, passives and non-stam morphs (like crit surge that costs magicka but still is essentially a stam build benefit -doubly so in that you make use of a useless resource like magicka) that still benefit you when you want to make a point about the class coming up short. For example: pretending crit surge, dark deal, streak, etc. aren't beneficial to a stamina build just because they cost magicka isn't a very honest approach.

Who denied that Streak, Surge, Dark Deal are beneficial for sS? I never read anyone who really played a stamsorc write that.
What you might mistake for "disingenuous" and "dishonest" is that people also realize the downsides of said skills instead of praising them blindly. E.g. Surge sucks in no CP as you're hard pressed building for damage AND crit chance there. Not to speak of ZOS' newest balance mystery: the band of malacath. That Streak is buggy and clunky is no secret, just as it's obvious that Dark Deal has changed from what it originally was. For better or for worse depends on your PoV.

Also, far too often ideas that are pitches are way too over-tuned. Someone mentioned crystal blast that acts like the old version of wrecking blow - a skill they just nerfed to not do a big hit + knockdown. That's not going to happen. If I'm a dev and reading the first part with a bunch of unfair comparisons and then get to someone asking for crazy strong skills, I'm going to tune out. Not saying everything said is wrong, but I'm just pointing out that you aren't doing yourself any favors with that approach.

Yep, crazy ideas get thrown around a lot. But what's crazy, viable, overtuned or straight up useless again depends on different factors. Like Vinyl said, old Dizzy wasn't overtuned before they somehow triplebuffed it a few patches ago + buffed onslaught + nerfed every other weapon skill line at the same time.

What do I like about my stamsorc:

I like that I can use magicka on some skills like crit surge or streak. I like that I have an armor buff that also does a nice AoE around me and gives me a speed burst, which no class has access to something just like it. I like having utilities like negate which can be useful in the right situation to any build. I like being able to trade magicka for health and stam.

Granted. But that's about it. I don't know why this should be stam sorc specific but almost every utility skill is magicka based. So what gives?

I'm actually alright with feeling like most of my class skills are there to accentuate my weapons, not replace them.

With most skills you mean which? Not a single skill buffs your generic weapon skills. If you're generous you could say Surge (which still would be a stretch) and Overload. But "most of my class skills"? Right, if there are only so few of them even 2 count for "most".
It would actually be a nice idea to have a skill that powers up your weapon skills like in adding something to it.

It does not bother me to not have a class spammable. Nor does it matter to me that every passive offers me something. Certainly they could, but I hope everyone realizes that when/if that were to happen, you don't get to keep the other passives at the same level they are. If they offer some other useful passive, then I'd guarantee you, you'll be getting less buffs from the others. Might not matter to your desires, but it's worth being aware of.

It should bother you if you compare it to other classes. Especially the 2 new ones. You put yourself at a disadvantage when you choose a class that hasn't as much to offer as others. I said it before but in a multiplayer game, especially in pvp, balance is really important. Why should I use a class like NB or Sorc if a Warden or Necro can do it better? Only because of Streak or Cloak? They isn't much of a reason.

What I'd like to see:

There should be a physical damage morph of the atro ultimate. Summon an air atro that spins around like that Aegis set or whatever.

And I like one posters idea that they'd rather have a delayed burst ability over a spammable. We'd probably just get another bad option and still end up using a weapon spammable, I think other than NB and stamplars every class spammable is kind of meh. I'd rather see some sort of stamina based curse, or if we didn't just want a delayed damage burst it could even be something unique like placing a lightning effect on them that does a dot to them and shocks everyone around them if they stack near allies. Anyway, I'm sure there could be a lot of interesting concepts for something like that, but I'd rather see a unique skill that's delayed damage or dot based over a class spammable that I still probably won't use vs. a weapon ability.

You may find some ideas overtuned. Some people think it's a no go to simply slam stam cost on a mag skill and call it a day. Or to put work in a skill that is so situational that it won't find much use afterwards, like changing a staple mag burst skill into a stam DoT skill that deals shock damage and is balanced (read: dmg lowered) for being an AoE.

But with that being said, I can see that crystal blast is ripe for a stam morph as it's not that great of an option magicka wise anyhow.

I'd hate to see the wrong things get changed on the class though if they start re-tooling it. The class is not in a bad place power wise and I'd worry about it coming out worse than better. Maybe I'm just pessimistic after watching changes over the years, because there are definitely some opportunities with the class/build.

Where SS stands powerwise is debatable. I'd say mid-field. Nowhere near Warden, Necro, Templar. Ironically all 3 classes with delayed burst abilites.
But in the end I agree with the sentiment that ZOS might just screw up again and make things worse.

On the first point, who said those skills suck? Well, that's the dishonest part, it's insinuated by leaving them out of the list and acting like because they are a magicka based ability that they don't count for Stamsorcs. And anytime someone has to narrow a point down to no-CP loses something because the vast majority of the game is CP and even if we look at no CP only, then magicka has the same amount of suck from that ability as stam. But I also never look at the game as only a pvp one, that's going to open up a whole new can of worms. (Like talking about pets not working b/c stamsorc is built on mobility - well that's only in pvp, works great in pve. Not that the point doesn't stand in pvp, but it's worth noting that complaint is very narrow).

When I say I'm ok with feeling like my class skills are there to add to my weapon use and not replace them, I'm talking about Crit Surge as on obvious one. But anything that provides passive bonuses that adds to what you do as a warrior - hurricane, streak for stun, dark deal to get resources back, etc. It was simply a statement that I'd rather have abilities like that - ones that are either utility or in the background while I'm making use of my weapon, on most stam users than just a new spammable to replace uppercut or whatever.

And like I said, I'm glad that utility skills are magicka based, I prefer using my dead resource bar for occasional casts and saving my stam bar for my parse and dodge rolls, etc. Obviously if it gets too crazy, your magicka can feel like it's not enough, but the only class that usually happens to me on is my stamden.

I also think it's worth noting when we bring up what the class doesn't have, that we look at what they do have vs. other classes. Only class with streak like ability for attack/escape/stun use. Only class with an armor buff that also does good damage and gives speed burst. Only class that lets you trade magicka for stam/health.

And I think that that a couple of small tweaks to passives, a phys damage ultimate and I'd prefer a delayed burst damage skill personally and they'd be in a good place. This call for class spammables are meh for stam IMO, I don't use warden bird, I don't use necro skulls and I don't care for the new 'spammable' they gave stamDKs. But I do think asking for it to pretty much do what was just taken away from uppercut doesn't help make the case, it really comes off like players just asking for OP stuff. If they add it, sure, whatever, maybe it would be useful in some situations, but I'd rather see the delay burst ability IMO if I had to only pick one.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

MincVinyl wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

It's about time that every stam class gets a class spammable which isn't a meme. Stam classes are boring copies of each other (except Nb) and have no identity. When looking at stamsorc I don't see a reason why I would want to play that class. It offers nothing unique. It can't do anything which another class can't do better. It doesn't have skills which are appealing (except maybe Streak but here again magsorc can do it better). And it will be completely trash with the 20% healing nerf and by the fact that they can't use Malacath ring without losing their selfheal...

It is really stamsorc and dk that are really missing something. Dk atleast has the poison dots/breath and ults to use so they are not completely at the mercy of what the weapon meta is. Nbs kinda got the short end of the stick, where they had alot of unique *** and one of the best stam scaling spammables..... then zos decided to take of the fracture and move all of nb's damage into a light attack proc gimmick. Lets just hope stamsorc does not follow, although we are rather close to being at the same point as nb.

They're already at the same point as Nb is in (maybe even worse considering how bad they scale with Malacath ring). They're just a weaker version of stamdk which is a weaker version of stamden/stamcro.

Joxer61 wrote: »

why wouldn't Mage's Fury had been a good choice? Insta cast, you get right away and looks cool (class theme). I mean a lightning bolt to the face could be a physical pain, could it not?
dunno, just always thought Fury would make a better stam skill...but thats me.