Stamsorc in 2020, 5 year main, thoughts on "Stam Frags/spammable" and how to go about it

MincVinyl · May 2020

TLDR

The post explains:

current stamsorc inclass problems that people complain about
A 5 year Stamsorc player's thoughts on a "stam frags/spammable" morph
Problems and ways to tackle them to avoid one button spam and constant simple burst

It is long so that I can lay out as much info that I believe would cause people to ask questions. Keeping the most of the crucial info/answers to those within this post.

Starting off with the rundown of 2020 greymoor stamsorc

stamsorc gets 6-9 passives magsorc gets 10-12
stamsorc gets 0 ultimates magsorc gets 6
stamsorc gets 7 morphs magsorc gets 27

stamsorc has access to: minor exp/prophecy and major vitality

For stamsorc to even reach all 9 passives you are forced to slot useless pet abilities. Even if Phys damage atro came out it would suck since it does not move, it would not pair with a mobility based class and overload is too clunky and has a new cluster of bugs and rules it follows each patch. To even compare to what some of the other classes get for free on spammable abilities we have to trade off 5 piece sets or abilities

As for abilities, recently we

gained clanfear...which does little to no damage on a non moving target at the price of two skill slots. Not to mention it dies easily since you cant heal it with your kit. Pets just do not pair with stamsorc, just like how atro doesn't.
Lost Bound armaments what was a highly useful defensive active ability is for some reason just a boring light attack proc copy and paste from nightblade. Somehow this is supposed to create "class identity". Much like dk's are not happy with tossing stones almost everyone i talk to pvp and pve thinks something better could have been made. Especially if it is going to take away one of the few abilities the class even used.

How to give Stamsorc a "stam frag" morph without it being a literal stamina version of frags

Going off the base crystal blast(could be named Crystal Blade), stamsorcs could still gain an ability that does the high damage with 1sec cast+stun (make it uninterruptible for a melee damage ability that rewards the long cast with a hard hit and a knockup(dropping the aoe currently with crystal blast for the uninterruptible QoL). This would play like old dizzy, which paired well with stamsorc's mobility which was why a lot of players ran it. The speed and toolkit for stamsorc allows us to do the cast time abilities and stay on target easier than other classes(what zos does not understand and lead them to put the random snare on current dizzy). Our inclass hots and health recov make it so we are able to survive while doing casts(which you cannot block cancel like other spammables for bonus tankiness between GCDs(global cooldowns). The stun/knockup gave stamsorc a way to actually setup combos in combat. (yes streak is op and stuns through block, but in combat it is very situational. You never know if you will pay the mag and not move, if terrain allows you to actually move after streaking, if you can land within melee range, if you can streak without going off a wall/ledge....you get the idea.

Old dizzy did have some problems on both sides(granted rather easy to counter, but new players still had problems)

Old dizzy had consistent burst (easiest counterplay by learning to block weave)
Old dizzy had a consistent knockup (easiest counterplay by learning to block weave)
Newer players had trouble hitting it and avoiding it. (A counterplay learning curve existed for both sides)

Adressing the problems

How do we add something like this back into the game without sorc burst being braindead easy and boring?

What I think would be zos's best option would be to try to use the current bound armament dagger system. It would also be fairly easy for them to use old assets while making something have a unique playstyle. The dizzy animation could be recycled and get a new skin. The ability pictures for current Bound armaments could be reused.
This brings back the block mit bound armaments(another unique ability back) while at the same time allowing passives to be utilized more(blood magic/expert mage).
Now say old dizzy did 10k damage tooltip, crystal blade would do 6k+1k*#daggers/0.3sec. This system would avoid the dreaded one spam wonder entirely. A player who wants to get burst out of it would have to learn to weave the rest of their bar(teaching new players to light weave). If someone does spam it, they will not build up to max daggers. It would work best if after the first Blade cast entering a fight you would gain a 30sec buff that allows you to gain daggers, refreshing upon a successful cast.
How the knockup would be addressed with this is much like how crystal frag proc works, at 4 procs the crystal blade would automatically consume the daggers and cause the blade to have a 6 second proc available causing your next cast to do the knockup and bonus dagger damage in a single hit. Mechanically this causes you to give up possible blood magic passive heals while preventing people from holding onto a fully loaded up proc for use anytime(like how the stamcro scythe can offbalance bomb) If you are countered you lose your saved up stacks+damage+heals+max hp passive.
Failing at the dagger system would mean the other player who counterplayed you gets rewarded with a window of counter burst or in pve if you do not do the proper rotation you loose out on potential dps. Much like disrupting a necro's corpse system, non stamsorcs will counter play the daggers
What about the one of pverp'er who thinks crystal blast is the best.....ughghghhghg.......if you really ......really......really like the ability so bad, it wouldnt be hard for crystal frags hard cast to behave exactly like crystal blast. While at the same time not changing the beloved frags proc that magsorcs almost all use. Note I do not believe that any magsorc would still hardcast in pvp, if anything as a stam main It would not bother me in the slightest. I have no issues with the strength of frags right now, regardless keep the thread as focused on stamsorc as you can.

I do not do a lot of the high end pve content anymore, but I believe this would fit fine within most rotations. Most of what I do now is either openworld cyrodil when it is working or do high mmr bgs without my friends because I cant anymore. Maybe it could retain the %light attack bonus to actually compete in pve/pvp(considering necro has a slew of unique % modifiers on everything on top of actually having passives and major/minor buffs... I can't see why there couldn't be one here). Anyways I always get asked what my opinions are on stamsorc not having a "spammable" after 5 years of playing the class. Sadly having to always be forced to use whatever weapon skill line is Bis(best in slot) patch to patch so stamsorc can stay relevant with what little it has. Generally I do not like the idea of any "spammable", the concept that you can just spam one button without a second thought and defeat your opponent seems pretty lame.

iCaliban · May 2020

Agree strongly. My own anecdote as a mag sorc main with a stam alt. I recently remade my stam sorc. Gear was: nma/clever alchemist, balorgs, masters bow back bar. With all of them procced on a single target, I had close to 7k weapon damage.

I cast bound armaments with 4 daggers at a player I've fought hundreds of times. I did less than 10% of his health bar. With an extreme weapon damage set up. For reference, my dawnbreaker took him to 14% health.

How is this comparable to frags? Or shalks? Or blast bones? It is not. Bound armaments is a pve skill clearly not designed to be useful in pvp.

Just my two cents. Minc is far more experienced than I am when it comes to stam sorc

My personal opinion: buff the damage of BA, and change the proc condition to casting any ability on the bar triggers a dagger.

Kadoin · May 2020

And yet I have little issue on my stam sorc. But to each their own.

YandereGirlfriend · May 2020

Kadoin wrote: »

And yet I have little issue on my stam sorc. But to each their own.

It's not a matter of stamSorc being bottom-tier in either PvE or PvP (though mid/low-tier is about as good as it gets) but rather the situation of having a class that cannot even use its own class abilities. That's just bad design.

Alucardo · May 2020

I may have missed something, but how do stam sorcs get access to major vitality? I always thought the idea of a crystal sword in place of crystal blast would be nice. Suggested it years ago, and then they decided to just buff crystal blast instead..
If it were to re-use the bound armaments dagger system I'm not sure how I'd feel about that. While as a concept it's not a bad idea, it's executed quite poorly, causing it to bug out most of the time. Like I'll get stuck at 3 shards, unable to generate anymore, and when I go to use it, it just gets reset. It's a very clunky skill that I generally avoid and just use for the passives.
Other than that, it sounds good though, and your suggestion is well thought out. I hope they read it and take note.

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2020

Alucardo wrote: »

I may have missed something, but how do stam sorcs get access to major vitality?

Restraining Prison. One can argue how that fits a 2020 stam build just for the buff.

Alucardo · May 2020

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I may have missed something, but how do stam sorcs get access to major vitality?

Restraining Prison. One can argue how that fits a 2020 stam build just for the buff.

Damn, I don't know how I missed that one. It's not a skill I really use because of the cost, and I generally just don't find immobilizes very useful. Not sure I'm willing to give up a slot just for a few seconds of vitality however, especially when that magicka can be better spent on streaks, surge and dark deals.

ku5h · May 2020

Imagine Blood Magic passive becoming useful after 6 years of uselessness...that would be the day.
Turning C Blast into stam spammable would do just that.

Thraben · May 2020

Kadoin wrote: »

And yet I have little issue on my stam sorc. But to each their own.

It's more about the flavour, and about missed chances.

The Bound Daggers are not impactful enough, so no one really uses them in Open World PvP. Which is a pitty. In my original suggestion they were a Bound Greatsword with a Dizzy animation, quite similar to what the OP envisions.

iCaliban · May 2020

Thraben wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

And yet I have little issue on my stam sorc. But to each their own.

It's more about the flavour, and about missed chances.

The Bound Daggers are not impactful enough, so no one really uses them in Open World PvP. Which is a pitty. In my original suggestion they were a Bound Greatsword with a Dizzy animation, quite similar to what the OP envisions.

The damage is too low. The proc condition takes too long for such pitiful damage. The only reliable way to use BA is with a bow back bar.

Landing 4 LA in melee? The fight has already been decided one way or another. BA is typical of zos. A reskinned poorly designed ripoff meant to minimize effort

gepe87 · May 2020

Crystal Blast (stam spammable), daedric Tomb (leave a trap after dodge roll, 10 seconds buff), lighting splash (maybe an aoe physical damage), air atronach ultimate, endless fury (stwm execute).

Crixus8000 · May 2020

The only thing I want for stamsorc atm is to not need to slot bound armaments or atro to get a passive that other classes get for free. I should not need to trade 2 bar slots to unlock a class passive, that is so stupid.

Alucardo · May 2020

Crixus8000 wrote: »

The only thing I want for stamsorc atm is to not need to slot bound armaments or atro to get a passive that other classes get for free. I should not need to trade 2 bar slots to unlock a class passive, that is so stupid.

Agreed. I mean, I wouldn't mind so much if bound armaments was actually good and functioned correctly, but it sucks to backbar the fat atro just to get the passives.

Stx · May 2020

Stam sorc already have a great identity. It's a storm and wind warrior. All their skills support this and it's honestly really cool. A class spammables would be okay, but I would like it to remain in this theme, like a wind slash or something.

Also, I'm not sure why everyone keeps complaining about stam sorc passives, they currently have amazing passives even while not benefitting from all 3 trees. That's why they make the best werewolf dps.

MincVinyl · May 2020

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I may have missed something, but how do stam sorcs get access to major vitality?

Restraining Prison. One can argue how that fits a 2020 stam build just for the buff.

It does not fit any 1vX openworld setups, you would need to trade out streak, but for ball groups it can be used especially with a tankier setup. I suppose I forgot to say we have access to minor prophecy to allies, which no longer affects the meta build path anymore due to the homogenized heals change. Oh and minor intellect on empowered ward. You can see why I did not include these, but included the vitality.

Stx wrote: »

Stam sorc already have a great identity. It's a storm and wind warrior. All their skills support this and it's honestly really cool. A class spammables would be okay, but I would like it to remain in this theme, like a wind slash or something.

Also, I'm not sure why everyone keeps complaining about stam sorc passives, they currently have amazing passives even while not benefitting from all 3 trees. That's why they make the best werewolf dps.

There are a great amount of passives, it is just that they are behind strict walls. Meaning we actively have to slot useless abilities that are only useful to get the passives.

20% stam recov (must have a pet ability slotted......now useless Bound Armaments frontbar with useless Storm atro backbar)
20% health recov (again ^)
8% stam (for slotting BA)
10% light attack (for slotting BA)
8% health (for not using BA for its purpose, but activating it and leaving it up)

The reason you are saying it is a storm and wind warrior is most likely because the Storm Calling treeline is the only one that is actually balanced between mag and stam. With the exception of overload being a buggy PoS that will most likely get you killed and banned at the same time.

I can compare the amount of straight passives vs slotted/active passives if you want compared between SS and Scro.....i can guess Scro vastly wins

iCaliban · May 2020

Off the top of my head: unholy knowledge, power stone, daedric protection (maybe), all 4 in storm calling are useful.

Compared to pretty much 100% of necro/warden passives

I will say this, despite the much greater power of mag sorcs, that class too suffers from a great many dead and useless skills. The only difference being how good crystal frags and fury are in a no cp enviroment.

Sorc has 2 class roots, a dedicated stun superior only to the woeful artic wind and zero passives which increase healing or interact with abilities in comparable ways to other classes.

Prior to the dot nerf, just after the shield nerfs, it was a frequent topic that sorc was a terrible class held aloft by 1 or 2 very strong abilities

GRXRG · May 2020

I think a Curse stamina morph would fit better than a frag stamina morph lol

Look at every single stamina class except stamplar and stamblade.
Necro use dizzy exe *blastbone*
Warden use dizzy exe *sub assault*
Dk use dizzy exe *dots*
Templar has *power of the light*
Nightblade has *spectral bow*

The thing that stamsorc is missing the most is a DELAYED BURST or burst stamina morph.

His killing combo is literally only dizzy spam into onslaught/dawnbreaker into dizzy into executioner.

I would like to see a stamina morph of Curse that place a trap on the enemy which deronates after X seconds and give maybe major expedition for 3 seconds after is exploded.

After that you rework the passive which are just made for magsorc and you have a super solid class that can compete with the others.

Luckylancer · May 2020

Whever a stam player complains baout amount of mag passives and morps, I stop reading. It is biased, ignorant and buff demanding post.

Game design force mag chracters to use class skills. They dont have good alternatives. In other hand stams have so many extra "class lines" as weapons. Every weapon type is unique. You have sword&board as tank skill line. You have bow, dw and 2h as diffrent dps skill lines with passives that benefit you. Mag have 2 staff skill lines. Most of destro staff skills are not good.

Do you know what happens when class skill lines treat stam and mag equaly? Stam version get OP because they can get everything their class lacks from weapons. No execute? 2h. No cc? dizzy or s&b. NO movement options? Bow have major expedition for free. Need offensive or deffensive ult? You are covered.

What annoy me most while playing stamsorc:
1. I dont want to double bar arnaments and I dont want to slot a mag ultimate for passive (20% stam regen)
2. Class dont have ultimate for stamina sorcerer.
3. Daedric summoning spell line is mag only. There are no other class line this much one sided.

Reminder: If ZoS add some more stuff to stamsorc, expect some nerfs too. Class is not at horrible state because there are a few strong class advantages they get (example: hurricane, a good aoe dot that save you 1 global cd from casting armor skill).

Alucardo · May 2020

Luckylancer wrote: »

Whever a stam player complains baout amount of mag passives and morps, I stop reading. It is biased, ignorant and buff demanding post.

Game design force mag chracters to use class skills. They dont have good alternatives. In other hand stams have so many extra "class lines" as weapons. Every weapon type is unique. You have sword&board as tank skill line. You have bow, dw and 2h as diffrent dps skill lines with passives that benefit you. Mag have 2 staff skill lines. Most of destro staff skills are not good.

Do you know what happens when class skill lines treat stam and mag equaly? Stam version get OP because they can get everything their class lacks from weapons. No execute? 2h. No cc? dizzy or s&b. NO movement options? Bow have major expedition for free. Need offensive or deffensive ult? You are covered.

What annoy me most while playing stamsorc:
1. I dont want to double bar arnaments and I dont want to slot a mag ultimate for passive (20% stam regen)
2. Class dont have ultimate for stamina sorcerer.
3. Daedric summoning spell line is mag only. There are no other class line this much one sided.

Reminder: If ZoS add some more stuff to stamsorc, expect some nerfs too. Class is not at horrible state because there are a few strong class advantages they get (example: hurricane, a good aoe dot that save you 1 global cd from casting armor skill).

Honestly I could care less that mag sorc has more options. What I really want is to remove the passive restrictions on passives, like Daedric Protection (because there's nothing to slot on my backbar, so I have to waste an ult for atro), and for bound armaments to not suck. I don't think it's too much to ask for.

Stx · May 2020

When you say bound armaments sucks, what do you mean? That bits boring? Because it clearly is a powerful ability and used in every pve setup. The amount of passives you get from this one ability is incredible, and then the damage is pretty good too.

I actually like bound armaments better than grim focus in pretty much every way possible.

MincVinyl · May 2020

GRXRG wrote: »

I think a Curse stamina morph would fit better than a frag stamina morph lol

Look at every single stamina class except stamplar and stamblade.
Necro use dizzy exe *blastbone*
Warden use dizzy exe *sub assault*
Dk use dizzy exe *dots*
Templar has *power of the light*
Nightblade has *spectral bow*

Players still would ask for a spammable, but I do not think removing one of the morphs of curse would be a great idea. Magsorc needs both of those morphs to separate the normal build path and the zoo petsorc build path. My intention was that moving the dagger system(which was a copy of nb delayed burst) to the spammable in the form of an auto cast would act like delayed burst. Think of how useful BA would be currently if they just made it so when it 4 daggers you could activate it to go off with your next light attack or with my suggested spammable.

Stx wrote: »

When you say bound armaments sucks, what do you mean? That bits boring? Because it clearly is a powerful ability and used in every pve setup. The amount of passives you get from this one ability is incredible, and then the damage is pretty good too.

I actually like bound armaments better than grim focus in pretty much every way possible.

What i mean is that the ability just feels like a copy of NBs "class identity" and is not worth the gcd in pvp. Casting it actually puts you at a disadvantage because you drop 8% health for a lackluster amount of damage. It definitely did not fill the need for a class spammable to be able to avoid weapon line nerfs controlling where stamsorc sits in the meta. We also lost a useful active to gain something that should have been put as a new ability somewhere else. Like in pvp the ability is also mainly slotted just to actually get your passives on stamsorc, which about half of your passives are tied to this ability.

MincVinyl · May 2020

Luckylancer wrote: »

Whever a stam player complains baout amount of mag passives and morps, I stop reading. It is biased, ignorant and buff demanding post.

Game design force mag chracters to use class skills. They dont have good alternatives. In other hand stams have so many extra "class lines" as weapons. Every weapon type is unique. You have sword&board as tank skill line. You have bow, dw and 2h as diffrent dps skill lines with passives that benefit you. Mag have 2 staff skill lines. Most of destro staff skills are not good.

Do you know what happens when class skill lines treat stam and mag equaly? Stam version get OP because they can get everything their class lacks from weapons. No execute? 2h. No cc? dizzy or s&b. NO movement options? Bow have major expedition for free. Need offensive or deffensive ult? You are covered.

What annoy me most while playing stamsorc:
1. I dont want to double bar arnaments and I dont want to slot a mag ultimate for passive (20% stam regen)
2. Class dont have ultimate for stamina sorcerer.
3. Daedric summoning spell line is mag only. There are no other class line this much one sided.

Reminder: If ZoS add some more stuff to stamsorc, expect some nerfs too. Class is not at horrible state because there are a few strong class advantages they get (example: hurricane, a good aoe dot that save you 1 global cd from casting armor skill).

Like someone else stated stamsorc is only known for it's wind and lightning identity....which is likely due to stamsorcs only having the storm calling skill line. We get hardly anything from the dark magic line other than DD and cost reduction passive. The pet tree has ult cost reduction and then everything else is tied to forcing you to have BA on your bar, when you otherwise wouldn't use the ability. Now putting passives behind slotting an ability is fine....if we had access to useful abilities. I'm not saying stamsorc needs more to function, I am saying stop pigeon holing the class even more. Make the passives passive, add in an ability or two where magsorc does not use morphs. There are plenty of useless magsorc morphs that are just barely different. Look at the ultimates, all the morphs are barely different. Look at crystal shard, mages fury, or lightning splash...there are plenty of places that are able to allow for stamsorc options and magsorc wouldnt change at all.

Compare it to stamcro which all 12 passives are useful to them and they are simple to get. Then about 4/10 morphs in each class tree are usable and many of them also each have their own tied on passives on top of their 12 passives already

Stx · May 2020

I guess I'm just of the opinion that current stam sorc is fun and nothing needs to be changed.

1) There is no pure warrior class in this game and stam sorc is the closest thing to that, so to me that in itself is an identity and you take that away by adding class spammables etc.

2) Stamsorc already has an identity in a storm/wind warrior. Just because it revolves around 1 class tree doesnt bother me, because the class is a MAGIC focused class, it's a sorcerer...

3) The stam sorc has powerful passives already, it doesnt need to benefit from every passive in every tree.. because it already has powerful passives.. that's why stamsorc makes the best werewolf.

4) Some skills like bound armaments do offer too many passives. But I dont see why this is an issue because every class has skills that need to be slotted because they are powerful... so what is the issue? I see no issue with bound armaments because it is just so damn powerful, any possible changes would most likely be nerfs to the class.

OrderoftheDarkness · May 2020

I think that the stamina streak version with its own unique effect can also be considered, then sorc remains itself, but only more identical. After this, stamsorc will have more opportunities to use their magic abilities and their original magic character.
P. S. If guided by the core of the class.

Crixus8000 · May 2020

Stx wrote: »

When you say bound armaments sucks, what do you mean? That bits boring? Because it clearly is a powerful ability and used in every pve setup. The amount of passives you get from this one ability is incredible, and then the damage is pretty good too.

I actually like bound armaments better than grim focus in pretty much every way possible.

It's not good in pvp though. It's worth it for the passives, but I don't think we should need to slot it to get access to class passives, it's unfair and the passives not including dradric protection aren't that great and not as good as just slotting an actual useful skill instead. Also the activated ability of armaments is very weak in pvp and not worth using.

I like stamsorc right now, but I think it could do with a damage increase somehow. But like I said, I would just be happy with not needing to waste 2 bar slots on a useless skill to be able to use my class passive.

Alucardo · May 2020

Stx wrote: »

When you say bound armaments sucks, what do you mean? That bits boring? Because it clearly is a powerful ability and used in every pve setup. The amount of passives you get from this one ability is incredible, and then the damage is pretty good too.

I actually like bound armaments better than grim focus in pretty much every way possible.

The passives are great, which is the only reason I keep it slotted. By "it sucks", I mean it doesn't function very well from a technical standpoint. I sometimes find it gets stuck at 2 or 3 shards, unable to generate any more. Then there's times where I get to 4 shards, press it again and it just resets. It's a very clunky ability that rarely works as expected, and even more so under laggy situations such as Cyrodiil.
In theory these kind of LA to build stacks/shards sound fine, but in ESO they are a bloody nightmare, especially when you have trouble getting light attacks to register.

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2020

Stx wrote: »

When you say bound armaments sucks, what do you mean? That bits boring? Because it clearly is a powerful ability and used in every pve setup. The amount of passives you get from this one ability is incredible, and then the damage is pretty good too.

I actually like bound armaments better than grim focus in pretty much every way possible.

From a PvP PoV: It does too little damage. It's far too easy to avoid because it's dodge window somehow is really wide. But for it to be properly comboable with the last remaining good spam, dizzy, it's not delayed enough.
Outside of that it's buggy, clunky and a cheap copy of an already existing class-unique. But, while it's shamelessly copied, it doesn't grant you two daggers for an heavy attack.
It neither functions as a proper spam nor as a burst tool. It doesn't proc pet sets nor Rebate, but somehow it counts as a pet for Expert Summoner. Read: it's inconsistent.

All it really does is granting some passives that other classes get for free.

BTW if you read mid-cicle PTS notes, the one with the light and heavy attack changes, you'd notice that it's next on the chopping block as the 10% LA damage was removed.

And last but not least: it wasn't even asked for by the community. Just like DK's pebble throw, a long awaited changed went in an entirely false direction. A letdown. A waste of work.

Stx wrote: »

I guess I'm just of the opinion that current stam sorc is fun and nothing needs to be changed.

1) There is no pure warrior class in this game and stam sorc is the closest thing to that, so to me that in itself is an identity and you take that away by adding class spammables etc.

2) Stamsorc already has an identity in a storm/wind warrior. Just because it revolves around 1 class tree doesnt bother me, because the class is a MAGIC focused class, it's a sorcerer...

3) The stam sorc has powerful passives already, it doesnt need to benefit from every passive in every tree.. because it already has powerful passives.. that's why stamsorc makes the best werewolf.

4) Some skills like bound armaments do offer too many passives. But I dont see why this is an issue because every class has skills that need to be slotted because they are powerful... so what is the issue? I see no issue with bound armaments because it is just so damn powerful, any possible changes would most likely be nerfs to the class.

That's an... unique... take on things you have here.

4) As already mentioned by several people, the passives are the only reason BA is slotted in PvP. The skill itself is lackluster. People wouldn't mind slotting it if it was actually useful as an active skill. But it isn't. So either rework the skill or change the passive conditions.

3) It benefits from barely half the passives. Some passives are so out of date that they aren't even useful to anyone. Rebate doesn't even work in most of PvE. How about that?
Daedric Protection is locked behind a skill with an active part that is only useful in PvE. Or a barely useful pet and an Ultimate, that once again, doesn't help you much in PvP.
Expert Summoner is nearly the same. But as icing on the cake, you get punished for using Bound Armaments bc you loose the health bonus once you fire the daggers.
Blood Magic locks stam players out entirely. Exploitation does nothing for you, but is at least somewhat useful for your mates. Capacitator grants you whooping 50-100 Mag recovery. Isn't that amazing?
Implosion was an unique and fitting passive that synergyzed very well with stam sorcs (hurricane, surge, implosion) but it got removed and changed to Amplitude which is a direct nerf to PvE sorcs of all resources, as the execute range is the important aspect. Not only that it’s strange from a lore standpoint it also never sees full use because your class trademark, hurricane, garatuees you that you won't get the most out of your own passives. Synergy destroyed.

Are the other passives nice? Yes, they are. But what you seem to miss is that the passives are either too restricted in it's proc condition (Blood Magic, Daedric Protection, Expert Summoner, Amplitude [due to hurricane]), useless (to at least half the game modes, like Rebate) or too stretched out. 4 passives alone are about resources (Rebate, Power Stone, Unholy Knowledge, Persistance), not even counting the ones that boost your regen (that would make 6).

And yes, it is an issue that nearly half the passives are useless. Because the skills don't really make up for it. And because other classes have it simply better. Especially the cash gated ones. In a multiplayer game balance is imporant.

E: it‘s „the best class for Werewolf“? May that be because the passives are simply the best in the game or bc the passives synergy well with werewolfes? You know the answer. And it’s so bc the class passives can’t really build in class skills bc there are so few of them.

2) Their entire storm/wind identity comes from two skills. Hurricane and Streak. Great. Nobody wants to change the theme of the class. To the contrary, people want the devs to expand on it.

E: don’t get started with the „sorc is mag“ nonsense again. This wasn’t true in a single TES game ever. Nor is it in ESO. Just stop. It‘s once again only your own opinion. Just like „stamsorc must be true weapon fighter type“.

1) You've got the be kidding me. I hate to do that but here we go:

Stx wrote: »

But due to how poorly skills in this game are balanced, I cant use weapon spammables. The amount of damage and buffs I would lose by using 2 handed skills over biting jabs is INSANE.

Can you please make up your mind? In your own thread you talk about how *** weapon skills are and now you're parading for stam sorcs to not recieve class alternatives?
Besides, even if they added class skill alternatives it wouldn't take away from your wierd RP fantasy take. You could still Heroic Slash your way through the game to all your heart's content. But it would help the class.

But I guess these all are issues you don't care much about if you main a stamplar.

Sorry for the bias.

Thraben · May 2020

That being said, the StamSorc will be in a good spot after the next patch.

We are one of three classes that can make use of a Vampire Beserk build (with +1800 Weapon Damage compared to other Stam classes), and deciding between this and Werewolf is a really tough decision.

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2020

Thraben wrote: »

That being said, the StamSorc will be in a good spot after the next patch.

We are one of three classes that can make use of a Vampire Beserk build (with +1800 Weapon Damage compared to other Stam classes), and deciding between this and Werewolf is a really tough decision.

But we can shove surge if we want to make use of malacaths ring.

MincVinyl · May 2020

Thraben wrote: »

That being said, the StamSorc will be in a good spot after the next patch.

We are one of three classes that can make use of a Vampire Beserk build (with +1800 Weapon Damage compared to other Stam classes), and deciding between this and Werewolf is a really tough decision.

better than stamblade, sure, but id be hard pressed to say that it beats out stamplar/dk < warden < necro by far. Again like the point of the thread and what you are even saying (whether I agree or not) is that stamsorc heavily needs out of class options to be strong. For the most part over the years stamsorc was directly op or *** depending on how dizzy was balanced or bleeds for implosion builds.

MincVinyl · May 2020

Actually the last time I feel stamsorc better competed with stamplar/dk for the mid tier positions was before they ruined darkdeal to make it a *** inefficient bullnetch.

Before BA was changed to be a *** version of Assassin's will.

Before the third bar was removed so you could get the utility/damage needed to compete while still being able to get your passives for slotting things like BA.

Back before FM snare immunity was reduced to 4s instead of raising every source up to par. Which ruined the fluid combat, effectively making movement speed useless to build for. Same goes for the random blanket nerf towards every source of major exp due to swift being introduced and causing problems. Movement which is the only thing stamsorc still has is nearly useless in combat now that there is no consistent way to maintain one speed. If you do want to achieve a high speed with consistency you will inevitably trade away a 5 piece worth from your build and still only have 5 sec of snare/root immunity while in 6 medium(currently *** compared to heavy, especially on stamsorc)

Before the elsweyr dizzy and onslaught random changes that nobody asked for, which just dumbed down 2h to the state it is now. Which made dizzy mindless to use with a shorter single aim check cast, making movement speed not matter to build for dizzy builds. Which made onslaught lose its uniqueness for a copy of corrosive.(which will now just be in a 5 piece set but better apparently). Why wasn't shrouded dagger's balanced with the offbalance focus idk. Why rend wasn't given the pen bonus instead of ruining a perfectly good ult, idk.