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The vampire cost increase is good because....
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Or at least ramping up the damage at least. You are doing nothing while that drain is active and you need some way to keep the pressure on your foe. If they don't want a stun on it at least make it more useful in a fight
Yeah it's mostly just a healing tool now.
It's still useful for builds who are not adept at healing themselves though (and it can be combined with rapid regen). But as an offensive ability, it is lacking, And losing the stun does suck, especially in PvP. So I don't think we disagree on this one.Edited by Jeremy on April 29, 2020 6:50PM1 -
Vanos444✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »We understand that sometimes tempers rise, but it is never acceptable to resort to rude comments and insults. This goes for rude comments and insults directed at other community members, and ZeniMax Online Studios employees alike.
Can you or could you, tell your boss to remove the non vampire skill cost at stage one vampire?!
It's the only way to reduce rude comments from exploding in Zenimax ESO forums...
Edited by Vanos444 on April 30, 2020 6:39AM3 -
Vanos444✭✭✭✭✭@jermy what build do you recommend for vampire stage one on a Templar tank in PvP cyrodill with CP cap?
Since, you're so adamant on sticking with the increased cost of abilities by being a vampire. So, provide us a build, by which we could use, compared to this laughable or poor imitation of a vampire class.Edited by Vanos444 on April 30, 2020 6:43AM0 -
rager82b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like this change. I hope they don't cave in. Having to play like a vampire, and making it a choice, not required is the best thing they have done.
Well done.0 -
VoidCommander✭✭✭✭✭Vampirism stage 4 has so much potential. You can offset many magicka’stamina costs by replacing your spammable with the health costing morph of the vampires spammable. This makes a big difference in how much magicka I spend during a rotation, and is only a massive dps loss for me because I use draugrkin’s grip set (+617 damage to all abilities). If I wasn’t using that particular set, I. Would be achieving higher numbers for damage than I would have otherwise. The trick is to find classes that can passively heal for at least 2k health every second, activate blood rush, throw down your regular dots, and use the vampire spammable. This got me a solid 36k dps without too much effort on a magsorc, but was just not comparable to a stage 1 templar using only bloodrush in a draugrkin’s grip rotation pulling an easy 50k on the same 6 mil.1 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »We understand that sometimes tempers rise, but it is never acceptable to resort to rude comments and insults. This goes for rude comments and insults directed at other community members, and ZeniMax Online Studios employees alike.
Can you or could you, tell your boss to remove the non vampire skill cost at stage one vampire?!
It's the only way to reduce rude comments from exploding in Zenimax ESO forums...
Actually, there is another way, they could start handing out some vacation time from the forums for repeated violations of the rules.0 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭[
It seems to me ZoS can't win. I read constant complaints on this forum from players who are upset at feeling pressured to be an ugly Vampire just for the regen. ZoS changes it to where being a Vampire is more aimed at players who actually want to to play as a Vampire and use Vampire abilities. Now they are pissed they are going to have to cure it because it no longer gives them regen so they are no longer pressured to be something they never wanted to be in the first place. lol
And again (oh forums, why do you do this) the problem here is that this isn't a binary issue. It's true that some people didn't want to "have" to be vampires for the regen. But it's equally true that some folks liked being a vampire regardless of the passive but also enjoyed the passive. They liked the look. They used Bat Swarm on occasion. Whatever. And the problem is that the new vampire solution only addresses the people you are describing, not all viewpoints. Hence the debates and differing opinions about the changes.
ZOS could have won and hit this out of the park by adding and re-vamping (sorry couldn't resist) abilities to the vampire line without implementing cost penalties for other abilities. (Or having the cost penalties to occur when more vampire abilities are on your bar, instead of being tied to a stage. Or some other variation.) They could also have moved and renamed the Supernatural Recovery passive to another skill line where people would be less offended that it be taken (Soul Magic, maybe? Anyone get annoyed if people spec into the Soul Magic line just for the Soul Shatter passive? Nope, didn't think so.) Then people who liked being a vampire with their current play style could still enjoy it and experiment with the new skills, people who took it only for the passive could cure it, and people could try and make dedicated vampire builds and new play styles, focusing more on the stages and skills, if they were interested. Win / win / win.
Testing on PTS caused me to take a look at the old vampire line and it made me laugh. So much "drama" about the vampire line being too passive... but it only had three active abilities!!! OF COURSE a lot of people took it for the passives. My goodness, it made me realize even more how silly it was that people were being condemned for doing so. It clearly was part of the point. For most of this game's history vampires couldn't even fill up their action bars with vampire-specific abilities even if they wanted to!
We can debate all we want about whether it's "wrong" for people to want to be stage 4 with their current builds, or whether it's "wrong" for people to have been a vampire for the passive, but the bottom line is this game has a broad player base and many people used the vampire line for different reasons. The new content is likely to be more successful if the way it is implemented appeals to at least most of the vampire fans in ESO. A more constructive line of discussion would be: what tweaks could be made that would appeal to both "sides" of this debate?
I gave my ideas; would be interested in hearing others.6 -
DR4GONFL1✭✭✭✭So I guess one shouldn't enjoy the thieves guild passives if not fully dedicated to being a thief...rager82b14_ESO wrote: »I like this change. I hope they don't cave in. Having to play like a vampire, and making it a choice, not required is the best thing they have done.
Well done.
Right because one does not simply become a vampire he is born a vampire..... wait
Worst thing they have done, I hope they cave. Having to decide to be a vampire and not give up all of your skills should be a choice, not required.2 -
DR4GONFL1✭✭✭✭So if the argument is either choose to be a vampire or don't. But if you choose then dedicate yourself to being only a vampire, not just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being and living as a vampire. You must dedicate your character.
Well then I don't want to see any vampire's out during the day in the sun playing ESO ever. If you choose to be a vampire then be a vampire.1 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭So I guess one shouldn't enjoy the thieves guild passives if not fully dedicated to being a thief...rager82b14_ESO wrote: »I like this change. I hope they don't cave in. Having to play like a vampire, and making it a choice, not required is the best thing they have done.
Well done.
Right because one does not simply become a vampire he is born a vampire..... wait
Worst thing they have done, I hope they cave. Having to decide to be a vampire and not give up all of your skills should be a choice, not required.
Make all classes and guild associations have same choice, 20% increases for all!!2 -
Skykaiser_Ọlọrun✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Make all classes and guild associations have same choice, 20% increases for all!!
Yeah, I wonder how many people thumping their chests about how vampires need to be a 100% commitment have leveled up Fighters/Mages Guild or Undaunted skill lines just for the passives.
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rager82b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭So I guess one shouldn't enjoy the thieves guild passives if not fully dedicated to being a thief...rager82b14_ESO wrote: »I like this change. I hope they don't cave in. Having to play like a vampire, and making it a choice, not required is the best thing they have done.
Well done.
Right because one does not simply become a vampire he is born a vampire..... wait
Worst thing they have done, I hope they cave. Having to decide to be a vampire and not give up all of your skills should be a choice, not required.
Silly logic is silly.
We need more rpg choices in the game, and being a vampire should be a curse. It should have downsides for exchange of power.
Time to bring back the rpg elements to the game.0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah, because everyone knows that RPG elements must be a net detriment.🙄rager82b14_ESO wrote: »So I guess one shouldn't enjoy the thieves guild passives if not fully dedicated to being a thief...rager82b14_ESO wrote: »I like this change. I hope they don't cave in. Having to play like a vampire, and making it a choice, not required is the best thing they have done.
Well done.
Right because one does not simply become a vampire he is born a vampire..... wait
Worst thing they have done, I hope they cave. Having to decide to be a vampire and not give up all of your skills should be a choice, not required.
Silly logic is silly.
We need more rpg choices in the game, and being a vampire should be a curse. It should have downsides for exchange of power.
Time to bring back the rpg elements to the game.
The new vampirism line will be completely non-viable for many builds (and even entire classes) in BGs at a minimum, and likely Cyrodiil as well. If you don't PVP, that's fine — but ZOS ruining the skill line for large swaths of it's player base just so some people can run around and pretend they're vampires is absurd and completely unnecessary.3 -
Stravokov✭✭✭✭werewolf has a HOT, a burst heal, and a gap closer. vampire needs something similar if they are going to be forced into using the abilities.
In every other fiction vampires are extremely regenerative, but only in ESO do they have 100% zero regen and no decent way of healing themselves.
Edited by Stravokov on May 1, 2020 6:50AM3 -
rager82b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah, because everyone knows that RPG elements must be a net detriment.🙄rager82b14_ESO wrote: »So I guess one shouldn't enjoy the thieves guild passives if not fully dedicated to being a thief...rager82b14_ESO wrote: »I like this change. I hope they don't cave in. Having to play like a vampire, and making it a choice, not required is the best thing they have done.
Well done.
Right because one does not simply become a vampire he is born a vampire..... wait
Worst thing they have done, I hope they cave. Having to decide to be a vampire and not give up all of your skills should be a choice, not required.
Silly logic is silly.
We need more rpg choices in the game, and being a vampire should be a curse. It should have downsides for exchange of power.
Time to bring back the rpg elements to the game.
The new vampirism line will be completely non-viable for many builds (and even entire classes) in BGs at a minimum, and likely Cyrodiil as well. If you don't PVP, that's fine — but ZOS ruining the skill line for large swaths of it's player base just so some people can run around and pretend they're vampires is absurd and completely unnecessary.
That is a lie, already many builds being tested. Necromancer builds with blood mist bone armor pulling and enrage buff.
Only a select few of you who always cry doom when you need to make a choice. Guess what? Some times things should have a penality. Shocking0 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD
less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks
So role play or be punished. Cool. This is such a fantastic update, the nerf trains coming in hot and now we have to role play if we want to have something strong for pvp or even pve. Like antiquities, that is some serious RP and I cant imagine even RPers will find it fun. But if we want mythic gear I guess we put on our archaeologist cap and RP.
And imagine paying for a chapter only to find out many of the parts of its main selling point, antiquities, are locked behind buying other DLCs. Nice update.1 -
Lintashi✭✭✭✭✭Can I have a link to healer build, necro vampire preferrably, that would be just as good cost/heal wise as non-vampire healer build? Without gimping my heals or dps, by wearing cost negating sets? Or being vampire means you cannot be competitive
healer/tank, not only because of the fact, that most dungeons/trials have fire damage, but also because of 5% more skill cost even at stage 1? Also, there are evidence, that even as dps, vamp stage 4 with all vamp skills will still be subpar choice, because it lacks cohetent rotation compared to werewolf.
Edited by Lintashi on May 1, 2020 7:16AM1 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭
How does your anecdotal evidence re: a single class spec change anything I said? I said that in BGs it will be "non-viable for many builds (and even entire classes)".rager82b14_ESO wrote: »
Yeah, because everyone knows that RPG elements must be a net detriment.🙄rager82b14_ESO wrote: »So I guess one shouldn't enjoy the thieves guild passives if not fully dedicated to being a thief...rager82b14_ESO wrote: »I like this change. I hope they don't cave in. Having to play like a vampire, and making it a choice, not required is the best thing they have done.
Well done.
Right because one does not simply become a vampire he is born a vampire..... wait
Worst thing they have done, I hope they cave. Having to decide to be a vampire and not give up all of your skills should be a choice, not required.
Silly logic is silly.
We need more rpg choices in the game, and being a vampire should be a curse. It should have downsides for exchange of power.
Time to bring back the rpg elements to the game.
The new vampirism line will be completely non-viable for many builds (and even entire classes) in BGs at a minimum, and likely Cyrodiil as well. If you don't PVP, that's fine — but ZOS ruining the skill line for large swaths of it's player base just so some people can run around and pretend they're vampires is absurd and completely unnecessary.
That is a lie, already many builds being tested. Necromancer builds with blood mist bone armor pulling and enrage buff.
Only a select few of you who always cry doom when you need to make a choice. Guess what? Some times things should have a penality. Shocking
Magblades are the first to come to mind — their heals aren't up to the task of sustaining Blood Frenzy, they're too squishy to make use of Eviscerate, and they already have arguably the worst sustain in the game so using class skills will be expensive AF. Vampiric Drain is just a garbage skill regardless of your class so that leaves Mist Form and Mesmerize, which might get some use in certain niche builds. Regardless, the huge sustain nerf is simply not worth it.
You coming up with a build you think will work means absolutely nothing. Hell, you haven't even tested it yet unless you somehow got the BGs to work on the PTS. In fact, do you even have the PTS installed? For some reason I doubt you do.
I spent all of last week on the PTS trying to make vampirism work for my magblades and I can tell you right now that it is non-viable for the class in BGs unless you want to play a health-stacking tank or a stamblade snipe ganker. (And even then I doubt it would be worth the headache.) For melee gankers it'll be more trouble than it's worth in most cases, and for straight up magblade BG builds it won't be viable in [almost] any situation.
In any case, I don't need to hear you telling me I'm "lying" as it seems pretty clear that you don't really have any clue what you're talking about.Edited by Langeston on May 1, 2020 1:20PM1