XomRhoK wrote: »

I am almost no hope that ZOS will change anything major, only number tweaks. Too late stage of production, and part of people like new skills (mostly those who think about numbers and efficiency). ZOS just chosed wrong route with vampire skills and appearance, in my opinion, and we will stuck with it for another 6 years.

I hope not... there are so many good suggestions on these forums and it'd be a shame to just ignore it all. I have several friends who play vampires just for fun, and have tried the PTS version of the vampires only to not like the direction it went either. The feeding reversal, art direction, and how the abilities feel in particular. They could care less about the resource regeneration and undeath passives as they didn't pick vampire for min/maxing.

Lord...after seeing the trailer I was PRAYING we'd have a bat swarm gap closer and it's very upsetting to see that the npcs have it and we don't. I got hit by it and instantly was like "YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME." It is beyond cool, as are a lot of their other abilities.

Mishaxki wrote: »

Current Vamp abilities could be brought closer to lore a little bit, sure. However one thing I always enjoyed about the Vamp line as it is now, is how subtle it is. I've argued this before and everyone wants something bigger and stronger and faster however if you consider WW for a minute, your build must bend to accommodate that power. The cool thing about Vamps are they are now, is the Vamp passives are so easy going and supportive of nearly any build without tripping over itself or the class.

I think they are making too many Vamp changes too fast and need to maybe add like half of this content and then think about adding Scion later. The Vamp ult now is a little hokey, it's a little old fashioned but it works great and I have no complaint with it.

Especially when so many things are NOT working, are NOT getting fixed and now they're going to break what does work because it's not flashy enough. Vamps are subtle in nature and I think they should not move toward the Vamp Lord concept. If I wanted to play Skyrim I would do, but I don't.

I understand what you are saying by subtle and that you would not like it to be like vamp lord in Skyrim and I respect your opinion. But I feel like vampire really isn’t subtle and it shouldn’t be, and also with the new 20% extra cost on abilities you really can’t just pick a class and role to play bc you would be punished for it, so why not build a tool kit with extra abilIties so we can have an ability to satisfy a build without using any class abilities. I think of vampires as the opposite of ww, ww is stamina and vamp Magicka and I think we should have cool vamp abilities as ww has its own Cool abilities. I think all of us vamps would be fine with the 20% extra cost if we can have a full vamp build without any other abilities and only vampire ones

After playing the PTS if there is a skill that I feel like needs to be swapped with one of these NPC vampire abilities its Blood Frenzy. This ability is just... I don't even know. If you build for lots of healing you can outpace its damage and gain the equivalent of 3 damage sets, or if you don't build for it the ability will have you getting killed. It feels like a chore and doesn't fit the vampire theme all that much. It and Eviscerate together make you feel more like a bloodfiend than a sophisticated undead capable of speech, rational thought, and blending into mortal society.

Noxavian wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

After playing the PTS if there is a skill that I feel like needs to be swapped with one of these NPC vampire abilities its Blood Frenzy. This ability is just... I don't even know. If you build for lots of healing you can outpace its damage and gain the equivalent of 3 damage sets, or if you don't build for it the ability will have you getting killed. It feels like a chore and doesn't fit the vampire theme all that much. It and Eviscerate together make you feel more like a bloodfiend than a sophisticated undead capable of speech, rational thought, and blending into mortal society.

replace blood frenzy with the bat-swarm gapcloser

With a melee focused build vamps need some sort of gap closer

If ZOS so much want Blood Frenzy mechanics they can move it into passives, anyway it will played exactly as passive

I would agree with replacing Frenzy with the bat gap closer, especially if it has an AoE component to it; perhaps something similar to Explosive Charge that deals AoE damage as you travel (and also costs 40% less at Stage 4 instead of 20% more), even if it doesn't knock things down like the NPC ability does. Would give Vampires something to close the distance for Eviscerate while also giving us modest AoE potential (because God knows Blood Mist isn't up to the task). Also, the bats AoE at 3:11 is what Blood Mist should have looked like.
Unfortunately, we'll probably not see any of these abilities implemented until the next Vampire overhaul, if at all. I'd love to see a second, more utility/support-oriented vamp skill line incorporating these NPC abilities (so healer vampires can actually be possible, if not viable), but at this stage most we can hope for is changing the numbers. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

So, I figured it would be unfair of me to ask for a whole second skill line with nary a suggestion only to then whine about there not being enough time to implement any changes. So I've put some thought into what the two Vampire skill lines could look like. The new skills I will present are intended to be relatively easy to implement and to use the existing NPC vampire animations and visuals if possible; to further speed up development (and assist in balancing), most of the new skills will be uh, inspired by already existing abilities from other skill lines.
The main concern I see coming from players is the inability to slot non-vampire skills due to prohibitive cost increases, coupled with the fact that it is impossible to specialize in any role (DPS/Tank/Heal) without slotting outside skills as the Vampire skill line is missing the meat-and-potatoes of these roles - a powerful AoE and DoT ability, a gap closer (given that our spammable is a melee ability), a damage shield, a HoT and a burst heal, as well as various combat buffs. One way to fix the issue would be to reduce the cost penalty... but that's not why we're here, is it? The other way is to embrace the all-in playstyle and add several new abilities to fill at least some of these gaps. So without further ado, I present to you the two new skill lines: Vampiric Strength and Vampiric Prowess (working names).

First skill line: Vampiric Strength.
This skill line is your basic damage dealing abilities, meant to represent the more feral, combat-oriented side of vampirism.

• Eviscerate. Just leave it as it is, you've more things to worry about if the other abilities were to be implemented.
• Vampiric Drain. Criminal Act. Also leave as is.
• Clouding Swarm, morphing into Draining Swarm or Revealing Swarm (working name). Criminal Act.
  Uses NPC visuals at 3:11. This would be a ground-targeted AoE DoT ability similar to Spear Shards. The base ability costs X Magicka and simply deals Magic Damage over X seconds. Draining Swarm morph also applies Minor Lifesteal to all enemies in the area. The Revealing Swarm morph has an increased radius and also reveals Stealthed and Invisible enemies in the AoE.
  This gives Vampire DPS something to cast while spamming Eviscerate while either giving the team extra heals or revealing stealthed/invisible enemies in PvP.
• Vampiric Dash, morphing into Violent Dash or Vampiric Blur (also working names). Criminal Act.
  Uses NPC visuals at 2:07. This is a basic Magicka gap closing ability, like Toppling Charge, except it Knocks enemies Down, costs less and deals no (or very little) damage. Violent Dash morph increases damage done, but removes knockdown effect (think Critical Charge). Vampiric Blur morph retains knockdown, and makes you Invisible for the duration - as brief as this might be, it will proc Strike from the Shadows.
  This is a gap closing ability needed for the more melee-oriented vampires (and since the spammable is melee, that'd be at least 70% of all vampire toons). Violent Dash is what people would take if they were rocking Mesmerize. Vampiric Blur is a "safer" morph that allows you to proc SftS without having to quick-toggle Mist Form.
• Combat Feed. Haven't thought of the names for this one. Criminal Act.
  Uses NPC visuals at 2:11. Just what the video shows, really - a DoT channel that roots you and stuns the enemy; can be Broken Free from or Interrupted, cannot be cancelled(?). Deals more damage than Vampiric Drain and escalates your Vampire Stage if the target is killed by this ability. One of the morphs speeds up the channel (from 8 seconds incrementally down to 7/6/5/4 seconds); the other morph increases damage.
  Mostly just a placeholder to fill up this skill line. Allows feeding in combat if you can't be bothered to sneak around or if the enemies can't be approached from behind. The fact you can break free from this and that you can't block-cancel it should limit the ability's usefulness (read: overpoweredness) in PvP.
• Ultimate: Blood Scion. Criminal Act. Introduce some changes to the way this ultimate works.
  Change Perfect Scion to increase duration of the transformation instead of ascending you to Stage 5. This will be useful for the ultimate in the other skill line.

Passives:

• Feed. No changes.
• Strike from the Shadows. No changes.
• Undeath. No changes.

Second skill line: Vampiric Prowess.
This is the utility/support skill line I mentioned in my previous post. Meant to represent the more subtle and supernatural side of vampirism. Has some skills that not all-in vampires might want to slot.

• Blood Transfusion, morphing into Careful Transfusion or Blood for Blood.
  Burst heal that costs Health to use and heals a single ally. Careful Transfusion reduces the cost of Health abilities while slotted by 4/6/8/10%. Blood for Blood heals Vampires for 10/15/20/25% extra health.
  This is a burst heal, a little like Rushed Ceremony that costs he- who am I kidding, this is a Malevolent Offering ripoff - it's just way too fitting for a vampire heal! This ability simply costs X Health instead of slowly draining Health over time, making it impossible to kill yourself with it. The key here is to make this ability cost more Health than Offering (perhaps even at Stage 4) so Offering still remains a viable alternative for Nightblades. Careful Transfusion will make slotting Health abilities a little more lucrative (besides making itself cost less), while Blood for Blood should make for fun Vampire groups.
• Uncanny Recovery, morphing into Supernatural Recovery (sound familiar?) and Uncanny Regeneration.
  Uncanny Recovery is a relatively cheap self-heal over time that costs Magicka; similar to Regeneration but can be slotted without a Resto staff and cannot heal others. Supernatural Recovery inscreases Magicka and Stamina recovery by 1/2/3/4% while slotted. Uncanny Regeneration changes to a Stamina ability (see Resolving Vigor but cheaper, weaker and longer).
  This ability is meant to give you some out-of-combat heals if ZOS keeps zero Health Recovery at Stage 4, while also either giving you some extra sustain (that people seem to really miss) or utilising your secondary resource (let's face it - ZOS wants Vampire to be a Magicka "class").
• Mist Form. Criminal Act. No changes.
• Mesmerize. No changes.
• Sanguine Ward. Don't have the names for morphs. Criminal Act.
  A Magicka-based damage shield ability. Gives you a damage shield that scales based on your missing Health (see Steadfast Ward) that only targets you. The first morph gives Minor Protection while the shield is active. The second morph reduces base shield strength, but increases how high it can scale.
  Just something to give Vampires a damage shield, rounding off their "universal" arsenal. Have to be careful around this one so it is a viable alternative to Steadfast Ward without being clearly superior or inferior.
• Ultimate: Glimpse of Humanity, morphing into Wolf Among Sheep or Sated Fury(?).
  Glimple of Humanity effectively takes you to Stage 5 (all benefits of Stage 4 and no drawbacks), except it would be worded differently - something-something makes you more human (or mer (or beast)) for the duration. This should last a while, around 30 seconds? Wolf Among Sheep also reduces the cost of your non-vampire abilities by 1/2/3/4% while slotted. Sated Fury reduces the Ultimate cost and lowers your Vampire stage by 1 when activated.
  This is the ultimate to pick if you would like to branch out into non-vampire abilities. The long duration should allow you to make a lot of use out of the reduced costs. Wolf Among Sheep is aimed at people who want to stay at Stage 1 as this ultimate would minimize regular ability cost penalties while still giving you reduced Vampire ability costs when active, so you get an interesting sort of inversion of Vampire gameplay. Sated Fury is a bit of utility that allows you to drop your vampire stages relatively quickly without having to chug Double Maras.

Passives:

• Dark Stalker. No changes.
• Blood Ritual. No changes.
• Unnatural Movement. No changes.

These should round out the Vampire ability range quite nicely, allowing people to make fairly viable builds for all roles, not just DPS. Of course, the abilities have to be balanced well enough in cost and effect to not completely overshadow their weapon or class counterparts. I believe the costs should follow this dynamic:

• At Stage 1, most Vampire abilities should be weaker or more expensive than class or weapon skills, and should only be slotted if you cannot get this effect otherwise or if you're building around that specific ability (for instance, you may still want to slot Supernatural Recovery for the sustain, even if the heals it provides are not cost effective).
• At Stage 2, you can start getting fringe benefits from using these abilities, though class and weapon abilities should still be more efficient.
• At Stage 3, Vampire ability costs even out with (or start exceeding) their non-vamp counterparts.
• At Stage 4, Vampire abilities should be the clear winners in terms of cost, though you can still slot other abilities if you need to (for example, Tanks would still slot taunts since the skill line lacks one).

This way, you should be able to cover a fairly broad range of vampire builds, from otherwise standard builds that slot Supernatural Recovery on one bar to full-on, 11- or 12-slot Vampire solo builds.

Looks through notes Yep, that seems to be all. Hopefully ZOS can take something away from this.

P.S. This is coming from a PvE perspective, so if you see something here that destroys PvP as we know it, feel free to offer suggestions on how to fix it.

Noxavian wrote: »

Spectral_Force wrote: »

So, I figured it would be unfair of me to ask for a whole second skill line with nary a suggestion only to then whine about there not being enough time to implement any changes. So I've put some thought into what the two Vampire skill lines could look like. The new skills I will present are intended to be relatively easy to implement and to use the existing NPC vampire animations and visuals if possible; to further speed up development (and assist in balancing), most of the new skills will be uh, inspired by already existing abilities from other skill lines.
The main concerns I see coming from players is the inability to slot non-vampire skills due to prohibitive cost increases, coupled with the fact that it is impossible to specialize in any role (DPS/Tank/Heal) without slotting outside skills as the Vampire skill line is missing the meat-and-potatoes of these roles - a powerful AoE and DoT ability, a gap closer (given that our spammable is a melee ability), a damage shield, a HoT and a burst heal, as well as various combat buffs. One way to fix the issue would be to reduce the cost penalty... but that's not why we're here, is it? The other way is to embrace the all-in playstyle and add several new abilities to fill at least some of these gaps. So without further ado, I present to you the two new skill lines: Vampiric Strength and Vampiric Prowess (working names).

First skill line: Vampiric Strength.
This skill line is your basic damage dealing abilities, meant to represent the more feral, combat-oriented side of vampirism.

• Eviscerate. Just leave it as it is, you've more things to worry about if the other abilities were to be implemented.
• Vampiric Drain. Criminal Act. Also leave as is.
• Clouding Swarm, morphing into Draining Swarm or Revealing Swarm (working name). Criminal Act.
  Uses NPC visuals at 3:11. This would be a ground-targeted AoE DoT ability similar to Spear Shards. The base ability costs X Magicka and simply deals Magic Damage over X seconds. Draining Swarm morph also applies Minor Lifesteal to all enemies in the area. The Revealing Swarm morph has an increased radius and also reveals Stealthed and Invisible enemies in the AoE.
  This gives Vampire DPS something to cast while spamming Eviscerate while either giving the team extra heals or revealing stealthed/invisible enemies in PvP.
• Vampiric Dash, morphing into Violent Dash or Vampiric Blur (also working names). Criminal Act.
  Uses NPC visuals at 2:07. This is a basic Magicka gap closing ability, like Toppling Charge, except it Knocks enemies Down, costs less and deals no (or very litte) damage. Violent Dash morph increases damage done, but removes knockdown effect (think Critical Charge). Vampiric Blur morph retains knockdown, and makes you Invisible for the duration - as brief as this might be, it will proc Strike from the Shadows.
  This is a gap closing ability needed for the more melee-oriented vampires (and since the spammable is melee, that'd be at least 70% of all vampire toons). Violent Dash is what people would take if they were rocking Mesmerize. Vampiric Blur is a "safer" morph that allows you to proc SftS without having to quick-toggle Mist Form.
• Combat Feed. Haven't thought of the names for this one. Criminal Act.
  Uses NPC visuals at 2:11. Just what the video shows, really - a DoT channel that roots you and stuns the enemy; can be Broken Free from or Interrupted, cannot be cancelled(?). Deals more damage than Vampiric Drain and escalates your Vampire Stage if the target is killed by this ability. One of the morphs speeds up the channel (from 8 seconds incrementally down to 7/6/5/4 seconds); the other morph increases damage.
  Mostly just a placeholder to fill up this skill line. Allows feeding in combat if you can't be bothered to sneak around or if the enemies can't be approached from behind. The fact you can break free from this and that you can't block-cancel it should limit the ability's usefulness (read: overpoweredness) in PvP.
• Ultimate: Blood Scion. Criminal Act. Introduce some changes to the way this ultimate works.
  Change Perfect Scion to increase duration of the transformation instead of ascending you to Stage 5. This will be useful for the ultimate in the other skill line.

Passives:

• Feed. No changes.
• Strike from the Shadows. No changes.
• Undeath. No changes.

Second skill line: Vampiric Prowess.
This is the utility/support skill line I mentioned in my previous post. Meant to represent the more subtle and supernatural side of vampirism. Has some skills that not all-in vampires might want to slot.

• Blood Transfusion, morphing into Careful Transfusion or Blood for Blood.
  Burst heal that costs Health to use and heals a single ally. Careful Transfusion reduces the cost of Health abilities while slotted by 4/6/8/10%. Blood for Blood heals Vampires for 10/15/20/25% extra health.
  This is a burst heal, a little like Rushed Ceremony that costs he- who am I kidding, this is a Malevolent Offering ripoff - it's just way too fitting for a vampire heal! This ability simply costs X Health instead of slowly draining Health over time, making it impossible to kill yourself with it. The key here is to make this ability cost more Health than Offering (perhaps even at Stage 4) so Offering still remains a viable alternative for Nightblades. Careful Transfusion will make slotting Health abilities a little more lucrative (besides making itself cost less), while Blood for Blood should make for fun Vampire groups.
• Uncanny Recovery, morphing into Supernatural Recovery (sound familiar?) and Uncanny Regeneration.
  Uncanny Recovery is a relatively cheap self-heal over time that costs Magicka; similar to Regeneration but can be slotted without a Resto staff and cannot heal others. Supernatural Recovery inscreases Magicka and Stamina recovery by 1/2/3/4% while slotted. Uncanny Regeneration changes to a Stamina ability (see Resolving Vigor but cheaper, weaker and longer).
  This ability is meant to give you some out-of-combat heals if ZOS keeps zero Health Recovery at Stage 4, while also either giving you some extra sustain (that people seem to really miss) or utilising your secondary resource (let's face it - ZOS wants Vampire to be a Magicka "class").
• Mist Form. Criminal Act. No changes.
• Mesmerize. No changes.
• Sanguine Ward. Don't have the names for morphs. Criminal Act.
  A Magicka-based damage shield ability. Gives you a damage shield that scales based on your missing Health (see Steadfast Ward) that only targets you. The first morph gives Minor Protection while the shield is active. The second morph reduces base shield strength, but increases how high it can scale.
  Just something to give Vampires a damage shield, rounding off their "universal" arsenal. Have to be careful around this one so it is a viable alternative to Steadfast Ward without being clearly superior or inferior.
• Ultimate: Glimpse of Humanity, morphing into Wolf Among Sheep or Sated Fury(?).
  Glimple of Humanity effectively takes you to Stage 5 (all benefits of Stage 4 and no drawbacks), except it would be worded differently - something-something makes you more human (or mer (or beast)) for the duration. This should last a while, around 30 seconds? Wolf amond Sheep also reduces the cost of your non-vampire abilities by 1/2/3/4% while slotted. Sated Fury reduces the Ultimate cost and lowers your Vampire stage by 1 when activated.
  This is the ultimate to pick if you would like to branch out into non-vampire abilities. The long duration should allow you to make a lot of use out of the reduced costs. Wolf Among Sheep is aimed at people who want to stay at Stage 1 as this ultimate would minimize regular ability cost penalties while still giving you reduced Vampire ability costs when active, so you get an interesting sort of inversion of Vampire gameplay. Sated Fury is a bit of utility that allows you to drop your vampire stages relatively quickly without having to chug Double Maras.

Passives:

• Dark Stalker. No changes.
• Blood Ritual. No changes.
• Unnatural Movement. No changes.

These should round out the Vampire ability range quite nicely, allowing people to make fairly viable builds for all roles, not just DPS. Of course, the abilities have to be balanced well enough in cost and effect to not completely overshadow their weapon or class counterparts. I believe the costs should follow this dynamic:

• At Stage 1, most Vampire abilities should be weaker or more expensive than class or weapon skills, and should only be slotted if you cannot get this effect otherwise or if you're building around that specific ability (for instance, you may still want to slot Supernatural Recovery for the sustain, even if the heals it provides are not cost effective).
• At Stage 2, you can start getting fringe benefits from using these abilities, though class and weapon abilities should still be more efficient.
• At Stage 3, Vampire ability costs even out with (or start exceeding) their non-vamp counterparts.
• At Stage 4, Vampire abilities should be the clear winners in terms of cost, though you can still slot other abilities if you need to (for example, Taks would still slot taunts since the skill line lacks one).

This way, you should be able to cover a fairly broad range of vampire builds, from otherwise standard builds that slot Supernatural Recovery on one bar to full-on, 11- or 12-slot Vampire solo builds.

Looks through notes Yep, that seems to be all. Hopefully ZOS can take something away from this.

P.S. This is coming from a PvE perspective, so if you see something here that destroys PvP as we know it, feel free to offer suggestions on how to fix it.

With this I would be able to have BOTH bars completely covered with vampire abilities.

I would literally die if this were added. No joke. I would legitimately die.

I would love this immensely.

Only disappointment with your suggestion is no gargoyle-summon. Which I would love to see included in someway tbh

Give them 1 summon ability that starts off as 1 death hound and can be morphed into either summon 2 death hounds or 1 big gargoyle boi.

If skill line of vampires will remain not extended(5+1), i'd prefer other skills, for vampires, not summons. But good alternative, in my opinion, could be set or monster set, like Maw of the Infernal, which summons gargoyle.

Spectral_Force wrote: »

So, I figured it would be unfair of me to ask for a whole second skill line with nary a suggestion only to then whine about there not being enough time to implement any changes. So I've put some thought into what the two Vampire skill lines could look like. The new skills I will present are intended to be relatively easy to implement and to use the existing NPC vampire animations and visuals if possible; to further speed up development (and assist in balancing), most of the new skills will be uh, inspired by already existing abilities from other skill lines.
The main concern I see coming from players is the inability to slot non-vampire skills due to prohibitive cost increases, coupled with the fact that it is impossible to specialize in any role (DPS/Tank/Heal) without slotting outside skills as the Vampire skill line is missing the meat-and-potatoes of these roles - a powerful AoE and DoT ability, a gap closer (given that our spammable is a melee ability), a damage shield, a HoT and a burst heal, as well as various combat buffs. One way to fix the issue would be to reduce the cost penalty... but that's not why we're here, is it? The other way is to embrace the all-in playstyle and add several new abilities to fill at least some of these gaps. So without further ado, I present to you the two new skill lines: Vampiric Strength and Vampiric Prowess (working names).

First skill line: Vampiric Strength.
This skill line is your basic damage dealing abilities, meant to represent the more feral, combat-oriented side of vampirism.

• Eviscerate. Just leave it as it is, you've more things to worry about if the other abilities were to be implemented.
• Vampiric Drain. Criminal Act. Also leave as is.
• Clouding Swarm, morphing into Draining Swarm or Revealing Swarm (working name). Criminal Act.
  Uses NPC visuals at 3:11. This would be a ground-targeted AoE DoT ability similar to Spear Shards. The base ability costs X Magicka and simply deals Magic Damage over X seconds. Draining Swarm morph also applies Minor Lifesteal to all enemies in the area. The Revealing Swarm morph has an increased radius and also reveals Stealthed and Invisible enemies in the AoE.
  This gives Vampire DPS something to cast while spamming Eviscerate while either giving the team extra heals or revealing stealthed/invisible enemies in PvP.
• Vampiric Dash, morphing into Violent Dash or Vampiric Blur (also working names). Criminal Act.
  Uses NPC visuals at 2:07. This is a basic Magicka gap closing ability, like Toppling Charge, except it Knocks enemies Down, costs less and deals no (or very little) damage. Violent Dash morph increases damage done, but removes knockdown effect (think Critical Charge). Vampiric Blur morph retains knockdown, and makes you Invisible for the duration - as brief as this might be, it will proc Strike from the Shadows.
  This is a gap closing ability needed for the more melee-oriented vampires (and since the spammable is melee, that'd be at least 70% of all vampire toons). Violent Dash is what people would take if they were rocking Mesmerize. Vampiric Blur is a "safer" morph that allows you to proc SftS without having to quick-toggle Mist Form.
• Combat Feed. Haven't thought of the names for this one. Criminal Act.
  Uses NPC visuals at 2:11. Just what the video shows, really - a DoT channel that roots you and stuns the enemy; can be Broken Free from or Interrupted, cannot be cancelled(?). Deals more damage than Vampiric Drain and escalates your Vampire Stage if the target is killed by this ability. One of the morphs speeds up the channel (from 8 seconds incrementally down to 7/6/5/4 seconds); the other morph increases damage.
  Mostly just a placeholder to fill up this skill line. Allows feeding in combat if you can't be bothered to sneak around or if the enemies can't be approached from behind. The fact you can break free from this and that you can't block-cancel it should limit the ability's usefulness (read: overpoweredness) in PvP.
• Ultimate: Blood Scion. Criminal Act. Introduce some changes to the way this ultimate works.
  Change Perfect Scion to increase duration of the transformation instead of ascending you to Stage 5. This will be useful for the ultimate in the other skill line.

Passives:

• Feed. No changes.
• Strike from the Shadows. No changes.
• Undeath. No changes.

Second skill line: Vampiric Prowess.
This is the utility/support skill line I mentioned in my previous post. Meant to represent the more subtle and supernatural side of vampirism. Has some skills that not all-in vampires might want to slot.

• Blood Transfusion, morphing into Careful Transfusion or Blood for Blood.
  Burst heal that costs Health to use and heals a single ally. Careful Transfusion reduces the cost of Health abilities while slotted by 4/6/8/10%. Blood for Blood heals Vampires for 10/15/20/25% extra health.
  This is a burst heal, a little like Rushed Ceremony that costs he- who am I kidding, this is a Malevolent Offering ripoff - it's just way too fitting for a vampire heal! This ability simply costs X Health instead of slowly draining Health over time, making it impossible to kill yourself with it. The key here is to make this ability cost more Health than Offering (perhaps even at Stage 4) so Offering still remains a viable alternative for Nightblades. Careful Transfusion will make slotting Health abilities a little more lucrative (besides making itself cost less), while Blood for Blood should make for fun Vampire groups.
• Uncanny Recovery, morphing into Supernatural Recovery (sound familiar?) and Uncanny Regeneration.
  Uncanny Recovery is a relatively cheap self-heal over time that costs Magicka; similar to Regeneration but can be slotted without a Resto staff and cannot heal others. Supernatural Recovery inscreases Magicka and Stamina recovery by 1/2/3/4% while slotted. Uncanny Regeneration changes to a Stamina ability (see Resolving Vigor but cheaper, weaker and longer).
  This ability is meant to give you some out-of-combat heals if ZOS keeps zero Health Recovery at Stage 4, while also either giving you some extra sustain (that people seem to really miss) or utilising your secondary resource (let's face it - ZOS wants Vampire to be a Magicka "class").
• Mist Form. Criminal Act. No changes.
• Mesmerize. No changes.
• Sanguine Ward. Don't have the names for morphs. Criminal Act.
  A Magicka-based damage shield ability. Gives you a damage shield that scales based on your missing Health (see Steadfast Ward) that only targets you. The first morph gives Minor Protection while the shield is active. The second morph reduces base shield strength, but increases how high it can scale.
  Just something to give Vampires a damage shield, rounding off their "universal" arsenal. Have to be careful around this one so it is a viable alternative to Steadfast Ward without being clearly superior or inferior.
• Ultimate: Glimpse of Humanity, morphing into Wolf Among Sheep or Sated Fury(?).
  Glimple of Humanity effectively takes you to Stage 5 (all benefits of Stage 4 and no drawbacks), except it would be worded differently - something-something makes you more human (or mer (or beast)) for the duration. This should last a while, around 30 seconds? Wolf Among Sheep also reduces the cost of your non-vampire abilities by 1/2/3/4% while slotted. Sated Fury reduces the Ultimate cost and lowers your Vampire stage by 1 when activated.
  This is the ultimate to pick if you would like to branch out into non-vampire abilities. The long duration should allow you to make a lot of use out of the reduced costs. Wolf Among Sheep is aimed at people who want to stay at Stage 1 as this ultimate would minimize regular ability cost penalties while still giving you reduced Vampire ability costs when active, so you get an interesting sort of inversion of Vampire gameplay. Sated Fury is a bit of utility that allows you to drop your vampire stages relatively quickly without having to chug Double Maras.

Passives:

• Dark Stalker. No changes.
• Blood Ritual. No changes.
• Unnatural Movement. No changes.

These should round out the Vampire ability range quite nicely, allowing people to make fairly viable builds for all roles, not just DPS. Of course, the abilities have to be balanced well enough in cost and effect to not completely overshadow their weapon or class counterparts. I believe the costs should follow this dynamic:

• At Stage 1, most Vampire abilities should be weaker or more expensive than class or weapon skills, and should only be slotted if you cannot get this effect otherwise or if you're building around that specific ability (for instance, you may still want to slot Supernatural Recovery for the sustain, even if the heals it provides are not cost effective).
• At Stage 2, you can start getting fringe benefits from using these abilities, though class and weapon abilities should still be more efficient.
• At Stage 3, Vampire ability costs even out with (or start exceeding) their non-vamp counterparts.
• At Stage 4, Vampire abilities should be the clear winners in terms of cost, though you can still slot other abilities if you need to (for example, Tanks would still slot taunts since the skill line lacks one).

This way, you should be able to cover a fairly broad range of vampire builds, from otherwise standard builds that slot Supernatural Recovery on one bar to full-on, 11- or 12-slot Vampire solo builds.

Looks through notes Yep, that seems to be all. Hopefully ZOS can take something away from this.

P.S. This is coming from a PvE perspective, so if you see something here that destroys PvP as we know it, feel free to offer suggestions on how to fix it.

This is a brilliant idea! When I was reading through I felt like I was actually reading a real skill line, it felt well balanced and realistic and I’m really sad it’s not real now I think you should really put this post in the vampire and ww pts thread and also make your own thread to spread the word. The only way we can even get close to making these changes happen would be to voice our opinions and spread the word and I think you are really onto something and I really love this idea. Perhaps you can add a gargoyle or death hound in one of the ults? Just as @Noxavian was wanting some summons, I think that would be great

Noxavian wrote: »

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I cannot emphasis this enough, watch this 3min video before voting. It showcases all player abilities and compares them to what the normal vampires (yes, just your average everyday vampire that is wandering around) get with the upcoming rework. Big thanks to @XomRhoK for recording this video and showing the community the differences between the two.



The timestamp for the NPC abilities is 2:07 for those that just want to view those. DO NOTE: One of the abilities shown (the bone spikes) is just an NPC necromancer ability that is not new.

For those that have issues with the video or don't want to watch it, here is a summary of the skills the NPCs have:

• A uniquely animated Bat Swarm gap closer that deals damage and knocks the target over, it has a bit of charge up as the vampire turns into a swarm of bats.
• A life drain siphon that has a very crimson/natural blood feel and sound effect with a dark black tint that lifts the target up into the air (can be interrupted)
• The ability to conjure a blood red fiend that has wings with glowing eyes that provides the vampire with a heal/buff.
• An AoE blood magic attack that looks like it is casted from the eyes of the vampire.
• A teleport that summons a shadow-y blood clone of the vampire that explodes after a few seconds into a big blood AoE. Doesn't look like it can be casted again until after the clone explodes
• A slow moving blood-ball projectile
• Various different AoE blood magic spells.
• The ability to summon an AoE swarm of bats on the ground that looks like a MUCH better and updated version of the bat-swarm ultimate.
• A BLOOD SCION transformation that gives access to a delayed blood magic pull that damages and DOESNT use weapons while in the form.

Now, of course we can't get all of these because there is simply too much to fit into 5 player skills and 1 ultimate. HOWEVER. That doesn't mean that some of these ideas cannot be given to the player. And of course some of the skill mechanics might have to be worked around a bit (maybe too much CC), but the animations and base-line for an amazing vampire rework that IMO is far better than what we have atm is there and possible.

What do you guys think? Please, please vote and comment below! Let @ZOS_GinaBruno know what we want to see as a community.

I find posts like this, when the PTS is already out and they are busy "balancing" and fixing bugs, are way too late and therefore irrelevant. They're more like "Duuuuuuuuude what if they did this" pipedream kinda posts.

There obviously can't be many changes to vamp abilities at this stage this close to launch so I don't know what to say/answer. My only answer is my opinion on the matter.

CleymenZero wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I cannot emphasis this enough, watch this 3min video before voting. It showcases all player abilities and compares them to what the normal vampires (yes, just your average everyday vampire that is wandering around) get with the upcoming rework. Big thanks to @XomRhoK for recording this video and showing the community the differences between the two.



The timestamp for the NPC abilities is 2:07 for those that just want to view those. DO NOTE: One of the abilities shown (the bone spikes) is just an NPC necromancer ability that is not new.

For those that have issues with the video or don't want to watch it, here is a summary of the skills the NPCs have:

• A uniquely animated Bat Swarm gap closer that deals damage and knocks the target over, it has a bit of charge up as the vampire turns into a swarm of bats.
• A life drain siphon that has a very crimson/natural blood feel and sound effect with a dark black tint that lifts the target up into the air (can be interrupted)
• The ability to conjure a blood red fiend that has wings with glowing eyes that provides the vampire with a heal/buff.
• An AoE blood magic attack that looks like it is casted from the eyes of the vampire.
• A teleport that summons a shadow-y blood clone of the vampire that explodes after a few seconds into a big blood AoE. Doesn't look like it can be casted again until after the clone explodes
• A slow moving blood-ball projectile
• Various different AoE blood magic spells.
• The ability to summon an AoE swarm of bats on the ground that looks like a MUCH better and updated version of the bat-swarm ultimate.
• A BLOOD SCION transformation that gives access to a delayed blood magic pull that damages and DOESNT use weapons while in the form.

Now, of course we can't get all of these because there is simply too much to fit into 5 player skills and 1 ultimate. HOWEVER. That doesn't mean that some of these ideas cannot be given to the player. And of course some of the skill mechanics might have to be worked around a bit (maybe too much CC), but the animations and base-line for an amazing vampire rework that IMO is far better than what we have atm is there and possible.

What do you guys think? Please, please vote and comment below! Let @ZOS_GinaBruno know what we want to see as a community.

I find posts like this, when the PTS is already out and they are busy "balancing" and fixing bugs, are way too late and therefore irrelevant. They're more like "Duuuuuuuuude what if they did this" pipedream kinda posts.

There obviously can't be many changes to vamp abilities at this stage this close to launch so I don't know what to say/answer. My only answer is my opinion on the matter.

Problem is that they need to release access to things like new vampires/skill lines on PTS sooner. If people knew not only what player vampires were getting, but also what NPC vampires were getting wayyyyy back during alpha testing for Greymoor, we wouldn’t be having this problem and the devs would have been able to save time in not creating new animations for the player vampire skills.

Now if they were going to give us the NPC abilities and it ended up looking rushed, I’d be okay with that, because unfortunately what they’ve been sitting on for months looks rushed anyway.

After all, they switched and changed LA/HA fiddling quickly enough. I would take another delay for this, as much as it would hurt I really would.

Noxavian wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

NPC's have always been getting more polished animations/abilities since as far back as Morrowind chapter so this is no surprise. There are archers using hail of fire arrows since way back. Why player abilities are never this creative we will never know. It's a shame though.

Imagine designing cool animated abilities only to be told "alright now animate some player ones"


Like why not just use the NPC abilities as player ones????? Like???? Saves time and money???

The weird thing is, all these new vamp abilities are just recycled animation poses from existing player abilities. I get that recycling animations is normal in any mmo in order to save resources, but they could recycle the npc animations just as easily for no resource increase as far as I know, so i have no clue what is going on in the studio for them to rush this rework.