Artanisul wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Eifleber wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

*weary sigh*

*even wearier sigh*

Tell me again the added value of the current system?

1. Good for immersion
2. Allow crafty players to actually make some gold (not only those being in guilds .. I used to raise funds with this system long before I even dared to think about applying to a guild
3. Allow any player to randomly fiind a good deal on what's needed. (on a GAH, everything is at the same price, with "clever" player putting their stuff at "min - 1g" to undercut others .. yay -_-)
4. Prevent market-cornering of rare items

There.
That excellent system basically create a non-gamable economy

I'll add that common items are still easy to find, rare items would be as unfindable in a GAH because they'd be so easy to find that they'd go almost instantly, and guilds turnovers are high enough so that when you search you'll easily find find a spot somewhere.

Also, all traders, baring the oddball faraway remote trading post, see enough players to sell your stuff.

On reason number two, I am confused. You say it allows those people not in guilds to make gold. It actually fores people to join guilds to sell anything. So not sure how you used the system before even joing a guild. OH I know...you didnt...

On point number 4, you are missing something. While someone cant corner the market on "items", they do corner the market on VENDERS. Keeping the top sales slots only to the guild mofias is well known here in ESO.

This "excellent system" creates a completely gamable economy. Ya cant sell unless you join a guild.

I know it's not going to change. I just would like people to actually admit the truth about how it is being abused.

If you knew how much I bought in guild store then sold in zone chat, you'd be astonished. I bought all the buyoant pages back when they were 150-300k a piece thanks to that .. and them some. Didn't need any membership for that. Just common sense. (looking at the last posted items, buying those that I know are cheap, and profit .. anyone can do that, with time (yeah, with time .. after all, it's a kind of farming))

Regarding the ever present (and silly) Idea of "mofias" that you brought, I'll ask a single question : What would those actually allow? Sure, guilds can form a alliance, a kind of "non-aggression" pact, if you will (don't take my spot, I won't take yours) .. but except to safeguard their trader, how does it game the system?

On a guild, any player is free to set the prices as he sees fit. I often sell below market price to keep gold flowing fast, and both my high-end guilds couldn't care less, as long as I meet the quota. (hell, you think they'll keep tab on everything sold by their 500 members? on 15k items, every single day? With an important turnover of players )

So, yeah .. except for gaining a bit of security/stability, what nefarious purpose do you think they pursue by creating alliances?

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

The current <snip> ESO [system] is incredibly buyer unfriendly, pretty damn poor for minor sellers... and awesome for Big Wheeler Dealer Trading Is My Life types.

Like so many things in ESO, guilds and traders are not just here to serve one purpose - and that is a strength, not a weakness. More immersion, more choices, more fun.

I have a friend who is in 4 "big time trader" guilds, and one guild that she affectionately refers to as "that crazy housing guild". Her profits are in the tens and hundreds of thousands of gold weekly, and she spends it all just as fast on new patterns, materials to buy so she can make more things to sell and so on.

I am in 5 guilds:
Trading Guild 1 "fairly busy"- I average selling 1-2 things ever 1-2 days with profits from 8 gold (I do sell piles of lockpicks and groups of 10-20 mudballs or similar) to 600-900 gold every few days. Most of the furniture, or items I make go here.

PvP guild that usually has a trader - this is my go-to for selling items like "rewards for the worthy" (rare, as I don't PvP often) or the items I get for doing daily random Undaunted type things, or rarely, for the occasional Cold Fire trebuchet or Ballista (drops from doing Cyrodiil dolmens). Or filled soul gems. Not a ton of profit, but fun. I've never checked, but it's possible my guildies are buying stuff before the "customers". That's fine by me.

Trading Guild 2 "intermittent" - My place to sell intricate items, batches of soul gems, batches of trash potions (I price them not much above what I'd get from a vendor and they tend to go). This is another place to sell furniture - and I will say the only stuff I make, is stuff I would keep and use if no one bought it.

Fishing Guild - they do have a store, but not a trader, so I don't put much here. But I'm here for the Fish!

Social Guild - Awesome activities, supportive, great people, they do have a store, but they don't have a trader. I occasionally throw things in here, but not often, and once in a while (like...monthly) I'll sell something little. No big, I'm here for the people, not the profit.

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

every time some shmoe throws up their hands in disgust at the Guild Trader system and vendors/deconstructs <Rare Item>, it helps keep the supply of <Rare Item> down and the value of the ones being sold high.)

What you forget, or avoid mentioning, are the many times that some has <rare item>, throws out that they have it into zone chat, and price information and sometimes a friendly bidding war ensues. The guild traders are the usual, but certainly not the only option.

For that matter, even when using TTC, I often see a note that an individual has offered something for sale, no guild connection. Again, another option.

What is TTC?

This is not a WOW clone.

Smitch_59 wrote: »

What is TTC?

Tamriel Trade Center

It is a add on with a down load to your computer that tracks the listings in kiosks and what their price and location is.
It does not update in real time and prices are what sellers set and not what they actually sell for.
Master Merchant (MM) is another add on but is shows what items sold for.

https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1245-TamrielTradeCentre.html

Hope this helps. Huzzah!

I would absolutely love a central auction house. I really, really would.

But I feel like the current system is set up to take huge chunks of gold out of the system.

Would we accept a 30-40% AH tax to make up for the removal of guild trader bidding?

There are a few good ideas in your post. There is a centralised auction house and it is called TTC. It kills the system of eso, so remove it.

no thank you, leave it as is

I'm sure many would enjoy the ease of just going to one or a few locations to shop, but it would drive prices down and benefit the buyer more (there are a lot of us in the game that are sellers). It would also remove less gold from the economy making existing gold worth less. The bidding system is a HUGE gold sink for the game, and the less the guild system is used, the less gold is worth.

It could even result in some items not being worth selling that are worth it now, so where you can now find some item occasionally at a store, you might have a harder time selling them in a more watered down system. And mixing the two systems wouldn't be great, you'd see a huge impact on the major cities traders now with that sort of competition and the smaller guild traders would be even less worthwhile if one could just sell their stuff in an auction house in a large city instead of marking it down to attract business in out of the way locations.

Anyone feel free to argue, but this type of thread pops up from time to time and is always shot down not just by zos' stated plan with the system (so it won't be changing no matter what the poll says) and by the player base liking things as they are.

preevious wrote: »

Artanisul wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

Eifleber wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

*weary sigh*

*even wearier sigh*

Tell me again the added value of the current system?

1. Good for immersion
2. Allow crafty players to actually make some gold (not only those being in guilds .. I used to raise funds with this system long before I even dared to think about applying to a guild
3. Allow any player to randomly fiind a good deal on what's needed. (on a GAH, everything is at the same price, with "clever" player putting their stuff at "min - 1g" to undercut others .. yay -_-)
4. Prevent market-cornering of rare items

There.
That excellent system basically create a non-gamable economy

I'll add that common items are still easy to find, rare items would be as unfindable in a GAH because they'd be so easy to find that they'd go almost instantly, and guilds turnovers are high enough so that when you search you'll easily find find a spot somewhere.

Also, all traders, baring the oddball faraway remote trading post, see enough players to sell your stuff.

On reason number two, I am confused. You say it allows those people not in guilds to make gold. It actually fores people to join guilds to sell anything. So not sure how you used the system before even joing a guild. OH I know...you didnt...

On point number 4, you are missing something. While someone cant corner the market on "items", they do corner the market on VENDERS. Keeping the top sales slots only to the guild mofias is well known here in ESO.

This "excellent system" creates a completely gamable economy. Ya cant sell unless you join a guild.

I know it's not going to change. I just would like people to actually admit the truth about how it is being abused.

If you knew how much I bought in guild store then sold in zone chat, you'd be astonished. I bought all the buyoant pages back when they were 150-300k a piece thanks to that .. and them some. Didn't need any membership for that. Just common sense. (looking at the last posted items, buying those that I know are cheap, and profit .. anyone can do that, with time (yeah, with time .. after all, it's a kind of farming))

To spend all the time & effort to do that, I'd have to enjoy being a trader. I don't.

How do I use AH's in other games I've played? Every week or two, I might have a handful of items I want to sell (sometimes, I might sell one thing in a month. Others, I might have 5 stacks of extra crafting mats to unload). So I look at the current prices (conveniently all there), and toss the things up with a small undercut. They sell within minutes, I collect my gold (not Maximum Profit™, but more than vendoring would be), and move on. Total time & effort, maybe 5 minutes. (and not being super-invested in trading, I don't care about people "cornering" the market. Honestly, that doesn't seem nearly as bad an effect on the overall playerbase as this exclusionary system ESO has.)

edit: and if I want to buy something, I can just search and find it. Again, 5 minutes at most. Not roaming zone to zone to zone, through piles of loading screens, to try to see if someone actually has something. And having no idea if that price is actually a decent one. And yeah, now we have TTC. Which is just a band-aid on a gushing wound - an attempt to bring back the useful functionality of a global AH.

I've never been a dedicated trader, and I never will be. Bloomberg Commodity Trader 2020 isn't a game I enjoy playing. So I've no place in trading guilds, since I don't sell any consistent volume, and blowing a bunch of time being a street corner huckster is obnoxious.

And so, there's no economy here for me, I'll just quietly vendor all my extra stuff. /shrug