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The vampire cost increase is good because....
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xxthir13enxx wrote: »Only ESO can release new vampire content that leads to vast amount of players hitting the Undo button on vampirism they’ve had for years...
New, exciting vampire content, and +90% of the community will remove vampirism from all or most of their characters. The rest will be roleplaying vampires in Solitude and Riften and decorate their +12k Crown vampire palace; or they will become vampire boosted gankers, bringing back a little of all that Nightblades have lost over the years.
Then those players had no real interest in being a Vampire anyway. Because Vampires are more powerful in Greymoor (not less). So there is no reason why someone who was actually interested in playing as a Vampire would undo it.
But 9,9 out of 10 current vampires became vampires for recovery and mitigation, not to roleplay. Is it really reasonable and fair to satisfy 0,1 or all players (many who have actually paid in real world currency for vampirism), because ZOS (and 0,1 of all vamps, like yourself) thinks it's a good idea?
If being a "normal" vampire was a prerequisite to pick a quest or whatever, to become these "super vampires" - it would be all good. A little like in Skyrim. This is just another of these huge changes, that affects a lot of people in an almost exclusively negative way, in true old ZOS fashion. A few always applaud these changes, but most don't.
It's not just for "roleplay" Raudrani. The new vampire skills are effective and have real game play applications.
Anyway; I don't see the problem here. Players who only chose Vampire for the regen and mitigation (the mitigation part I don't get, because the increased fire damage taken was more potent than undeath ever was) can go cure their Vamprism and no longer have to worry about being so ugly.
I also predict there are going to be a lot more than 0,1 players who are going to like these changes. In fact, I would be willing to bet you are going to see plenty of Vampires come Greymoor.
I fail to see how I can use any of the "benefits", if I'm not going all-in and play vampire as some sort of additional class. I mean, 20% increased cost? NO. Just give me my recovery back, that's why I got vampirisim in every single case. Not to be a roleplaying vampire kind of guy. I couldn't care less about being "ugly", if it bothers me I can hide with any of the skins I have, or simply use a headpiece that covers the face.
I call the mitigtion "two faced", because it might be good in a way, but the most common element of damage - fire - still hurts pretty bad. Health recovery penalty was kind of reasonable, but it isn't now. I think 10% extra recovery was a pretty fair deal for the fire susceptibility and health recovery penalty. Now all that was good is gone, left is something for very niche specifically vampire focused builds.
Yes, I realize you can make nasty nightblade gankbuilds, and probably use it to make magicka necromancers somewhat viable - but I feel it really doesn't make up for the enormous part of the community, that is affected by it in a negative way.
Anyone may feel what they want about this. I just wish it was a choice, a quest kind of thing you had to go through to get; that it isn't, and that even people who don't buy the DLC will get it, makes it feel pretty obvious it's not "all good" - they know many will hate it!
What I won't buy, is that I should think "it's good because the skills are op". I don't want to play as a vampire, it's really not my thing. I just see 10% recovery gone on most of my characters, with a lot of other additional negative aspects, and nothing to really gain from it. Truly annoying for those who BOUGHT vampirisim, for the recovery alone. It's like buying steroids and having birth control pills instead now.
It's only a 5% increased cost at stage 1. Not 20%,
But the days of Vampire just being used for a 10% passive regen are over (and I won't miss them). I don't know what else to tell you. People like yourself - who do not want to play as a Vampire - should have never felt like they needed to become a Vampire for some regen passive in the first place. So I don't see why you view this as a negative change. Only players who actually want to become Vampires will become Vampires now. Sounds pretty logical to me.
As to the people who spent crowns on Vampirism just for the regen passive, I would not object to giving them a refund.Edited by Jeremy on April 25, 2020 6:53PM2 -
SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Paradisius wrote: »Furthermore, you are still refusing to address the real question. No, "stay at stage one" is NOT a viable answer at this time.
I agree with this part, I do believe a fine middle ground would be to change the ability cost increase to 0/5/10/15, this way people who dont want to advance their stages dont feel like their gimped by just existing, while still providing some hefty detriments to those at higher stages.
I'm just going to chime in that I'd be perfectly okay with this change.✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨1 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Blah blah blah... Yeah right, if some of you don't care about cloak then why go stage 4?
Because right now if your answer to the question of whether or not the penalty is too great is to stay at stage one, then the answer is yes, the penalty is too great and needs to be altered so it's less severe. And this goes for @Jeremy as well. The question is not how to get around the penalty. The question is about the penalty itself."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."3 -
Ryath_Waylander✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Dedicate to being a vampire?... that means if one chooses to become one, that would be all they could realistically do in the game on that character. And still be hindered by the drawbacks, and maintaining the form. It is a game for crying out loud!Nemesis7884 wrote: »(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD
less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks
Some people who find the game too easy, seem to have used the vampire remake to convince ZOS to use that form to make the game artificially harder. This should never happen. Noone besides the 0.1% who find the game too easy would ever play a vampire again.
I think you're a little off base here. "Dedicate to being a vampire" doesn't necessarily mean filling your bar with nothing but vampire abilities, wearing black tuxedos with frilly shirts and spending your days down in Riften chatting in the emote channel. It just means that it's no longer little more than a free magicka regen bonus. It makes enough changes that it will alter your playstyle, thus becoming something that requires you put a little more thought into it.
Basically, that dedication is just referring to the fact that if you want the benifits, you're going to have to do something to compensate for the drawbacks because you can't just ignore them anymore.
There is no way I can alter my playstyle to remain an effective vampire healer with these envisioned changes. Maybe it is possible with a dps character. I enjoyed the irony of being a healer and a vampire. ZoS has decided that no, I can't play the way I want. So now I must choose to enjoy helping my guildies as a healer or be a functionally useless vampire. Time to see the light I guess. The fallen Templar must be redeemed.5 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ryath_Waylander wrote: »
Dedicate to being a vampire?... that means if one chooses to become one, that would be all they could realistically do in the game on that character. And still be hindered by the drawbacks, and maintaining the form. It is a game for crying out loud!Nemesis7884 wrote: »(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD
less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks
Some people who find the game too easy, seem to have used the vampire remake to convince ZOS to use that form to make the game artificially harder. This should never happen. Noone besides the 0.1% who find the game too easy would ever play a vampire again.
I think you're a little off base here. "Dedicate to being a vampire" doesn't necessarily mean filling your bar with nothing but vampire abilities, wearing black tuxedos with frilly shirts and spending your days down in Riften chatting in the emote channel. It just means that it's no longer little more than a free magicka regen bonus. It makes enough changes that it will alter your playstyle, thus becoming something that requires you put a little more thought into it.
Basically, that dedication is just referring to the fact that if you want the benifits, you're going to have to do something to compensate for the drawbacks because you can't just ignore them anymore.
There is no way I can alter my playstyle to remain an effective vampire healer with these envisioned changes. Maybe it is possible with a dps character. I enjoyed the irony of being a healer and a vampire. ZoS has decided that no, I can't play the way I want. So now I must choose to enjoy helping my guildies as a healer or be a functionally useless vampire. Time to see the light I guess. The fallen Templar must be redeemed.
And that is EXACTLY the sort of thing we need to find out right now while it's on PTS. It's the reason the PTS exists. To put a mostly formed concept to the test and polish it up before it goes live."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."1 -
Nova_J✭✭✭✭Ryath_Waylander wrote: »
Dedicate to being a vampire?... that means if one chooses to become one, that would be all they could realistically do in the game on that character. And still be hindered by the drawbacks, and maintaining the form. It is a game for crying out loud!Nemesis7884 wrote: »(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD
less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks
Some people who find the game too easy, seem to have used the vampire remake to convince ZOS to use that form to make the game artificially harder. This should never happen. Noone besides the 0.1% who find the game too easy would ever play a vampire again.
I think you're a little off base here. "Dedicate to being a vampire" doesn't necessarily mean filling your bar with nothing but vampire abilities, wearing black tuxedos with frilly shirts and spending your days down in Riften chatting in the emote channel. It just means that it's no longer little more than a free magicka regen bonus. It makes enough changes that it will alter your playstyle, thus becoming something that requires you put a little more thought into it.
Basically, that dedication is just referring to the fact that if you want the benifits, you're going to have to do something to compensate for the drawbacks because you can't just ignore them anymore.
There is no way I can alter my playstyle to remain an effective vampire healer with these envisioned changes. Maybe it is possible with a dps character. I enjoyed the irony of being a healer and a vampire. ZoS has decided that no, I can't play the way I want. So now I must choose to enjoy helping my guildies as a healer or be a functionally useless vampire. Time to see the light I guess. The fallen Templar must be redeemed.
Exactly, I have a vampire-necro healer that Im having a blast on! There's now no way you I can be anything past stage 1 anymore. I love vampires, have all the movies, all the games, been one on almost every skyrim game. And I loved eso's version of vampire that made allowed me to be able towork around its weakness to stay viable in all endgame content. These changes are treating vamps like a full fledged calss when its not. It only has 6 skills, and NONE of them are for healing my team. There is literally no point in having my character be a vamp anymore unless I make it a dps.
These changes are doing nothing but pigeonholing people into playing one way. I mean seriously the majority of players that even keep being vamps after this are just gonna stay at stage one for the skills. That's it. You're trading people only being vamps for passives, to people only being vamps for 1 or 2 skills. 😑😑
Lol it's funny how people who have "tested" this have all been dps. Because that's all vamps are for now....oh wait im sorry lol it's only for magdps. Maybe a tank, with a strong emphasis on maybe.
Vampires and NOT like the dogs. They were built like the other guilds skill lines to compliment your character/builds and were centered around their passives. Now there isn't even any point to go stage 4. But I love vampires so much that for me personally, that wouldn't be much of a problem if it had no real benefit, but those negatives make it impossible on my healer.
If ZOS wants vamps to be played like that, then they need to add 2 more skill lines.
All in all I'm might have to end up curing my vamps if these changes go live, which is shame because ths whole aesthetic of this toon was based around it being a vamp.
Smh play how you want my a**.
Edited by Nova_J on April 25, 2020 9:50PM9 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lol it's funny how people who have "tested" this have all been dps. Because that's all vamps are for now....oh wait im sorry lol it's only for magdps. Maybe a tank, with a strong emphasis on maybe.
As a tank, I'd like to put an an extra emphasis on the "maybe" in that statement. The changes definitely make themselves felt right now, but I might, MIGHT be able to tweak things just enough to compensate. The real test would be diving into some vetDLC dungeons and seeing what happens, but I don't know that I'll personally get around to doing that while it's on PTS."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Blah blah blah... Yeah right, if some of you don't care about cloak then why go stage 4?
Because right now if your answer to the question of whether or not the penalty is too great is to stay at stage one, then the answer is yes, the penalty is too great and needs to be altered so it's less severe. And this goes for @Jeremy as well. The question is not how to get around the penalty. The question is about the penalty itself.
I tried to explain this to you earlier. Whether the stage 4 penalty is "too great" or not wasn't the point of my comments. I was trying to end all the rampant misinformation out there that it's impossible for a vampire to coexist with their regular abilities due to the ability cost increase. Because that's simply not the case. All a player who wants to be a vampire and still make regular use of their regular abilities has to do is stay at stage 1. That's a perfectly viable option. It's easy to do, easy to maintain - and you will still have full access to all of the Vampire's active skills. I was actually one of those who were worried this would not be possible after reading about the changes. So I was pretty happy to discover you could still do this when testing it out on the PTS.
I also don't see this as necessarily getting around the penalty, either. I just see it as playing a less corrupted Vampire - which the new system makes a lot easier to do since using vampire skills no longer rapidly advance your stage. So it's not difficult to pick which stage you want to play as and stay there. So I look at it as just choosing which kind of Vampire you want to be.
As to whether or not the stage 4 vampire penalty is too great - that's going to boil down to whether or not people can create effective builds at stage 4 when utilizing most if not all Vampire skills. Because if people can, then obviously the penalty isn't too great. But as I said, I haven't experimented with creating a stage 4 Vampire yet. So I have nothing of value really to add to that discussion. All I know is that you can become a Vampire and still make liberal use of your regular abilities. That option does exist in the new system, and it's not impossible to do.
Edited by Jeremy on April 25, 2020 11:08PM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ryath_Waylander wrote: »
Dedicate to being a vampire?... that means if one chooses to become one, that would be all they could realistically do in the game on that character. And still be hindered by the drawbacks, and maintaining the form. It is a game for crying out loud!Nemesis7884 wrote: »(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD
less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks
Some people who find the game too easy, seem to have used the vampire remake to convince ZOS to use that form to make the game artificially harder. This should never happen. Noone besides the 0.1% who find the game too easy would ever play a vampire again.
I think you're a little off base here. "Dedicate to being a vampire" doesn't necessarily mean filling your bar with nothing but vampire abilities, wearing black tuxedos with frilly shirts and spending your days down in Riften chatting in the emote channel. It just means that it's no longer little more than a free magicka regen bonus. It makes enough changes that it will alter your playstyle, thus becoming something that requires you put a little more thought into it.
Basically, that dedication is just referring to the fact that if you want the benifits, you're going to have to do something to compensate for the drawbacks because you can't just ignore them anymore.
There is no way I can alter my playstyle to remain an effective vampire healer with these envisioned changes. Maybe it is possible with a dps character. I enjoyed the irony of being a healer and a vampire. ZoS has decided that no, I can't play the way I want. So now I must choose to enjoy helping my guildies as a healer or be a functionally useless vampire. Time to see the light I guess. The fallen Templar must be redeemed.
Exactly, I have a vampire-necro healer that Im having a blast on! There's now no way you I can be anything past stage 1 anymore. I love vampires, have all the movies, all the games, been one on almost every skyrim game. And I loved eso's version of vampire that made allowed me to be able towork around its weakness to stay viable in all endgame content. These changes are treating vamps like a full fledged calss when its not. It only has 6 skills, and NONE of them are for healing my team. There is literally no point in having my character be a vamp anymore unless I make it a dps.
These changes are doing nothing but pigeonholing people into playing one way. I mean seriously the majority of players that even keep being vamps after this are just gonna stay at stage one for the skills. That's it. You're trading people only being vamps for passives, to people only being vamps for 1 or 2 skills. 😑😑
Lol it's funny how people who have "tested" this have all been dps. Because that's all vamps are for now....oh wait im sorry lol it's only for magdps. Maybe a tank, with a strong emphasis on maybe.
Vampires and NOT like the dogs. They were built like the other guilds skill lines to compliment your character/builds and were centered around their passives. Now there isn't even any point to go stage 4. But I love vampires so much that for me personally, that wouldn't be much of a problem if it had no real benefit, but those negatives make it impossible on my healer.
If ZOS wants vamps to be played like that, then they need to add 2 more skill lines.
All in all I'm might have to end up curing my vamps if these changes go live, which is shame because ths whole aesthetic of this toon was based around it being a vamp.
Smh play how you want my a**.
I don't understand why people feel advancing in stages is so necessary. You already get dark stalker at stage 1 now. The stage 2 and 4 passives are entirely new and didn't even exist for Vampires prior to Greymoor. So literally the only thing you are losing from your previous Vampire build by staying at stage 1 is undeath, which is probably the most grossly overrated ability in the game. Frankly the decrease in fire damage you are going to take will more than make up for that in my opinion.
So I think people are stressing way too much over the penalty at higher stages of Vampirism. If the higher stages don't suit you - then just take a pass on it and enjoy the significant buffs to your vampire skills. There is no need to cure your vampire because of this.Edited by Jeremy on April 25, 2020 11:21PM1 -
RavemasterCrow✭✭✭As to whether or not the stage 4 vampire penalty is too great - that's going to boil down to whether or not people can create effective builds at stage 4 when utilizing most if not all Vampire skills. Because if people can, then obviously the penalty isn't too great. But as I said, I haven't experimented with creating a stage 4 Vampire yet. So I have nothing of value really to add to that discussion. All I know is that you can become a Vampire and still make liberal use of your regular abilities. That option does exist in the new system, and it's not impossible to do.
As someone who exclusively plays Stage 4 Vampires, if you're not using your Vampire Abilities. You literally use all your resources within a couple seconds.
Just using my buffs and setting up my dots literally drains 50% of my Magicka, and that's not even counting other abilities like my actual spammable Destro Staff(I'm not using Eviscerate, I never will. You can't pay me to put my Sorcerer in that much harm's way.)
I find I spend much more of the fight just heavy attacking with my staff while keeping things in my AoE.
Unless the severity of cost is changed, it's a hot soup sandwich right now.
My Nightblade was not as poorly effected, but he's a weapon damage/crit build. And the only thing I noticed was I had to keep my self heal up more religiously and I've had to use more potions than I normally do.
But my Sorc had issues, and as did most my other characters without reliable self healing - but things dependent on class skills or weapon skills basically ran out of resources before you can do too much. And you have to default to heavy attacking quite a bit to maintain it.
Maybe if you use recovery sets - you can circumvent some of that. But that means losing damage bonuses or crit bonuses just to be able to maintain status quo on live in terms of resources - but then fall in DPS.4 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭RavemasterCrow wrote: »As to whether or not the stage 4 vampire penalty is too great - that's going to boil down to whether or not people can create effective builds at stage 4 when utilizing most if not all Vampire skills. Because if people can, then obviously the penalty isn't too great. But as I said, I haven't experimented with creating a stage 4 Vampire yet. So I have nothing of value really to add to that discussion. All I know is that you can become a Vampire and still make liberal use of your regular abilities. That option does exist in the new system, and it's not impossible to do.
As someone who exclusively plays Stage 4 Vampires, if you're not using your Vampire Abilities. You literally use all your resources within a couple seconds.
Just using my buffs and setting up my dots literally drains 50% of my Magicka, and that's not even counting other abilities like my actual spammable Destro Staff(I'm not using Eviscerate, I never will. You can't pay me to put my Sorcerer in that much harm's way.)
I find I spend much more of the fight just heavy attacking with my staff while keeping things in my AoE.
Unless the severity of cost is changed, it's a hot soup sandwich right now.
My Nightblade was not as poorly effected, but he's a weapon damage/crit build. And the only thing I noticed was I had to keep my self heal up more religiously and I've had to use more potions than I normally do.
But my Sorc had issues, and as did most my other characters without reliable self healing - but things dependent on class skills or weapon skills basically ran out of resources before you can do too much. And you have to default to heavy attacking quite a bit to maintain it.
Maybe if you use recovery sets - you can circumvent some of that. But that means losing damage bonuses or crit bonuses just to be able to maintain status quo on live in terms of resources - but then fall in DPS.
Alternatively, you could add some recovery enchantments to what you're already using, for a lot less trade off.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RavemasterCrow wrote: »As to whether or not the stage 4 vampire penalty is too great - that's going to boil down to whether or not people can create effective builds at stage 4 when utilizing most if not all Vampire skills. Because if people can, then obviously the penalty isn't too great. But as I said, I haven't experimented with creating a stage 4 Vampire yet. So I have nothing of value really to add to that discussion. All I know is that you can become a Vampire and still make liberal use of your regular abilities. That option does exist in the new system, and it's not impossible to do.
As someone who exclusively plays Stage 4 Vampires, if you're not using your Vampire Abilities. You literally use all your resources within a couple seconds.
Just using my buffs and setting up my dots literally drains 50% of my Magicka, and that's not even counting other abilities like my actual spammable Destro Staff(I'm not using Eviscerate, I never will. You can't pay me to put my Sorcerer in that much harm's way.)
I find I spend much more of the fight just heavy attacking with my staff while keeping things in my AoE.
Unless the severity of cost is changed, it's a hot soup sandwich right now.
My Nightblade was not as poorly effected, but he's a weapon damage/crit build. And the only thing I noticed was I had to keep my self heal up more religiously and I've had to use more potions than I normally do.
But my Sorc had issues, and as did most my other characters without reliable self healing - but things dependent on class skills or weapon skills basically ran out of resources before you can do too much. And you have to default to heavy attacking quite a bit to maintain it.
Maybe if you use recovery sets - you can circumvent some of that. But that means losing damage bonuses or crit bonuses just to be able to maintain status quo on live in terms of resources - but then fall in DPS.
Yeah I wouldn't play at higher stages now if you plan on using your regular abilities often. Even at stage 3 (let alone 4) I found it counter productive.
I'll have to wait and see if people can come up with some good stage 4 Vampire builds before I have an opinion on it. I might try some kind of berserker build using the titanborn set. That sounds like it might could be interesting. But it's not high on my priority list right now since I'm pretty content with my stage 1 Vampire builds which I'm enjoying a lot more due to Greymoor.Edited by Jeremy on April 25, 2020 11:32PM0 -
Nova_J✭✭✭✭Ryath_Waylander wrote: »
Dedicate to being a vampire?... that means if one chooses to become one, that would be all they could realistically do in the game on that character. And still be hindered by the drawbacks, and maintaining the form. It is a game for crying out loud!Nemesis7884 wrote: »(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD
less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks
Some people who find the game too easy, seem to have used the vampire remake to convince ZOS to use that form to make the game artificially harder. This should never happen. Noone besides the 0.1% who find the game too easy would ever play a vampire again.
I think you're a little off base here. "Dedicate to being a vampire" doesn't necessarily mean filling your bar with nothing but vampire abilities, wearing black tuxedos with frilly shirts and spending your days down in Riften chatting in the emote channel. It just means that it's no longer little more than a free magicka regen bonus. It makes enough changes that it will alter your playstyle, thus becoming something that requires you put a little more thought into it.
Basically, that dedication is just referring to the fact that if you want the benifits, you're going to have to do something to compensate for the drawbacks because you can't just ignore them anymore.
There is no way I can alter my playstyle to remain an effective vampire healer with these envisioned changes. Maybe it is possible with a dps character. I enjoyed the irony of being a healer and a vampire. ZoS has decided that no, I can't play the way I want. So now I must choose to enjoy helping my guildies as a healer or be a functionally useless vampire. Time to see the light I guess. The fallen Templar must be redeemed.
Exactly, I have a vampire-necro healer that Im having a blast on! There's now no way you I can be anything past stage 1 anymore. I love vampires, have all the movies, all the games, been one on almost every skyrim game. And I loved eso's version of vampire that made allowed me to be able towork around its weakness to stay viable in all endgame content. These changes are treating vamps like a full fledged calss when its not. It only has 6 skills, and NONE of them are for healing my team. There is literally no point in having my character be a vamp anymore unless I make it a dps.
These changes are doing nothing but pigeonholing people into playing one way. I mean seriously the majority of players that even keep being vamps after this are just gonna stay at stage one for the skills. That's it. You're trading people only being vamps for passives, to people only being vamps for 1 or 2 skills. 😑😑
Lol it's funny how people who have "tested" this have all been dps. Because that's all vamps are for now....oh wait im sorry lol it's only for magdps. Maybe a tank, with a strong emphasis on maybe.
Vampires and NOT like the dogs. They were built like the other guilds skill lines to compliment your character/builds and were centered around their passives. Now there isn't even any point to go stage 4. But I love vampires so much that for me personally, that wouldn't be much of a problem if it had no real benefit, but those negatives make it impossible on my healer.
If ZOS wants vamps to be played like that, then they need to add 2 more skill lines.
All in all I'm might have to end up curing my vamps if these changes go live, which is shame because ths whole aesthetic of this toon was based around it being a vamp.
Smh play how you want my a**.
I don't understand why people feel advancing in stages is so necessary. You already get dark stalker at stage 1 now. The stage 2 and 4 passives are entirely new and didn't even exist for Vampires prior to Greymoor. So literally the only thing you are losing from your previous Vampire build by staying at stage 1 is undeath, which is probably the most grossly overrated ability in the game. Frankly the decrease in fire damage you are going to take will more than make up for that in my opinion.
So I think people are stressing way too much over the penalty at higher stages of Vampirism. If the higher stages don't suit you - then just take a pass on it and enjoy the significant buffs to your vampire skills. There is no need to cure your vampire because of this.
.........maybe you did not read the part where I stated I am a necro-healer lol. What vamp abilities can I run and benefit my team with??? And again, I love being a vampire in its fullest state, which in this case is stage 4. Not everybody in this game is worried about putting put the best dps numbers smh. I like to give my characters actual character, meaning that I like my character being a full vampire and not being forced to use stage 1 because anything past that would be a death sentence to my team.
Like seriously it's the same reason why people who like dragons and fire(closet pyromaniac's) often choose DK's. Or how people who like the feel of being an assassin will go nightblade.
These changes are gonna force me to play a vampire as a dps. If I wanna do anything outside of that have to be at stage 1. I dont look nor do I feel like a powerful vampire at stage 1.
And "significant buffs"? Lol no, nononono. These skill changes are doing nothing but making you work alot harder for exactly the same or slightly higher dps. Now granted that's just from the play test's Ive seen when people compare their current dps to pts dps.
But back to the bigger picture, there is literally no incentive to be a stage 4 vamp.
Think about that.
Stage 4 was supposed to be the pinnacle of vampiric power and now there is no reason to be there. Well unless you wanna have a super niche sprint/cloak nightblade or DK for pvp lol.
They made these changes thinking they were dealing with WW lol. No. The new skills look good and are flashy and all that, but when it comes down to viability they are going to fall short.
And a question for you, do you really not see a problem with people staying at stage 1 just to use the 1 or 2 good abilites? That's literally what people where complaining about players doing on live. Only being a vamp for a few passives. Now I'm only being a vamp but not for the passives but for a skill. ZOS obviously made these changes with the idea that you would be using most if not all the new vamp abilities.
More vampire stages should not = less power.
Less vampire stages should not = more power.
As it is now, one could get all of the vamp abilities and none of the stage 4 bs and put out just as much damage if not more.Edited by Nova_J on April 25, 2020 11:54PM6 -
RavemasterCrow✭✭✭I don't understand why people feel advancing in stages is so necessary. You already get dark stalker at stage 1 now. The stage 2 and 4 passives are entirely new and didn't even exist for Vampires prior to Greymoor. So literally the only thing you are losing from your previous Vampire build by staying at stage 1 is undeath, which is probably the most grossly overrated ability in the game. Frankly the decrease in fire damage you are going to take will more than make up for that in my opinion.
So I think people are stressing way too much over the penalty at higher stages of Vampirism. If the higher stages don't suit you - then just take a pass on it and enjoy the significant buffs to your vampire skills. There is no need to cure your vampire because of this.
They're losing the mitigating passives that made picking up Vampire for most people worth it. And the reason why people (like myself) played as Stage 3 or Stage 4 vampires.
Recovery for Stamina AND Magicka by 10% - you can argue and say how this made it 'necessary' for EVERYONE to be a Vampire, therefore it's bad. But I'd say that you're telling people to use sets to mitigate around this could be applied to current live game and if you wanted the 10% recovery, just use a recovery set and let Vampires have cool things. They're SUPPOSED to be better in some ways than normal people. Not just blanket worse.
They're also losing Unnatural Resistance - which lowered the penalties for the higher stages, and actually made playing them bearable for most people. And if it was still part of the tree, it might not be as big of an issue as it is now. Since Stage 4 Vamps would only have a 50% Hp recovery reduction rather than a flat 0 percent.
Literally the only positive of having a Stage 4 vampire is the reduction in costs for Vampire abilities.
On live, as a Stage 4 - Breton Vampire:
50% HP recovery reduction
25% more Fire Damage taken
21% Reduced Costs for Vampire Skill Line abilities
10% Increased Stamina and Magicka Recovery.
33% Damage Reduction under 50% HP
On PTS, as a Stage 4 - Breton Vampire:
100% Hp recovery reduction
20% more Fire Damage taken
40% Reduced Costs for Vampire Skill line abilities
20% Increased Costs for Non-Vampire skills
30% Damage Reduction based on missing HP
300 Weapon and Spell damage after leaving Stealth
Sprinting costs 50% less and turns you invisible so long as you're sprinting for 3 seconds.
While you technically get "more" positives, because 2 of them were added for Greymoor.
They also increased HP recovery reduction by 50% (to a forced 0, you literally can't recover HP without potions or healing)
20% Increased costs for using ANY ability that isn't from the Vampire skill line. Including Weapon skills, which hurts melee builds that aren't going to use solely Eviscerate as their spammable.
A less useful Damage Reduction.
And some highly situation passives that mostly benefit characters like Nightblades (which have a reliable stealth that ISN'T just Vampiric Mist block cancelling), and a sprinting passive that is great if you're one of those people that likes to just run past stuff or maybe get out of town if you've got a bounty.
So, you get a big selection of nerfs to your character overall. A skill line that basically forces you into playing a Magicka character to take full effect of it. And some niche flavor abilities that won't come in handy in most content.
Sure, you get some fun new abilities - but when you try and apply most of those to content that people play Vampires in. PvP, Trials, Veteran Mode instances?
You've got a stun that only works if your enemies are looking at YOU, you get a damage buff that costs you HP and one that makes you only able to heal yourself.
A Magicka spammable for MELEE that scales with max HP.
Essentially the Same Drain, and same Vampiric Mist (Granted it now heals instead of JUST damaging with the Baleful morph).
It's not good man. At least for people you claim don't really exist, those of us that ACTUALLY play Vampire. Not just used it for the 10% recovery passive.9 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ryath_Waylander wrote: »
Dedicate to being a vampire?... that means if one chooses to become one, that would be all they could realistically do in the game on that character. And still be hindered by the drawbacks, and maintaining the form. It is a game for crying out loud!Nemesis7884 wrote: »(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD
less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks
Some people who find the game too easy, seem to have used the vampire remake to convince ZOS to use that form to make the game artificially harder. This should never happen. Noone besides the 0.1% who find the game too easy would ever play a vampire again.
I think you're a little off base here. "Dedicate to being a vampire" doesn't necessarily mean filling your bar with nothing but vampire abilities, wearing black tuxedos with frilly shirts and spending your days down in Riften chatting in the emote channel. It just means that it's no longer little more than a free magicka regen bonus. It makes enough changes that it will alter your playstyle, thus becoming something that requires you put a little more thought into it.
Basically, that dedication is just referring to the fact that if you want the benifits, you're going to have to do something to compensate for the drawbacks because you can't just ignore them anymore.
There is no way I can alter my playstyle to remain an effective vampire healer with these envisioned changes. Maybe it is possible with a dps character. I enjoyed the irony of being a healer and a vampire. ZoS has decided that no, I can't play the way I want. So now I must choose to enjoy helping my guildies as a healer or be a functionally useless vampire. Time to see the light I guess. The fallen Templar must be redeemed.
Exactly, I have a vampire-necro healer that Im having a blast on! There's now no way you I can be anything past stage 1 anymore. I love vampires, have all the movies, all the games, been one on almost every skyrim game. And I loved eso's version of vampire that made allowed me to be able towork around its weakness to stay viable in all endgame content. These changes are treating vamps like a full fledged calss when its not. It only has 6 skills, and NONE of them are for healing my team. There is literally no point in having my character be a vamp anymore unless I make it a dps.
These changes are doing nothing but pigeonholing people into playing one way. I mean seriously the majority of players that even keep being vamps after this are just gonna stay at stage one for the skills. That's it. You're trading people only being vamps for passives, to people only being vamps for 1 or 2 skills. 😑😑
Lol it's funny how people who have "tested" this have all been dps. Because that's all vamps are for now....oh wait im sorry lol it's only for magdps. Maybe a tank, with a strong emphasis on maybe.
Vampires and NOT like the dogs. They were built like the other guilds skill lines to compliment your character/builds and were centered around their passives. Now there isn't even any point to go stage 4. But I love vampires so much that for me personally, that wouldn't be much of a problem if it had no real benefit, but those negatives make it impossible on my healer.
If ZOS wants vamps to be played like that, then they need to add 2 more skill lines.
All in all I'm might have to end up curing my vamps if these changes go live, which is shame because ths whole aesthetic of this toon was based around it being a vamp.
Smh play how you want my a**.
I don't understand why people feel advancing in stages is so necessary. You already get dark stalker at stage 1 now. The stage 2 and 4 passives are entirely new and didn't even exist for Vampires prior to Greymoor. So literally the only thing you are losing from your previous Vampire build by staying at stage 1 is undeath, which is probably the most grossly overrated ability in the game. Frankly the decrease in fire damage you are going to take will more than make up for that in my opinion.
So I think people are stressing way too much over the penalty at higher stages of Vampirism. If the higher stages don't suit you - then just take a pass on it and enjoy the significant buffs to your vampire skills. There is no need to cure your vampire because of this.
.........maybe you did not read the part where I stated I am a necro-healer lol. What vamp abilities can I run and benefit my team with??? And again, I love being a vampire in its fullest state, which in this case is stage 4. Not everybody in this game is worried about putting put the best dps numbers smh. I like to give my characters actual character, meaning that I like my character being a full vampire and not being forced to use stage 1 because anything past that would be a death sentence to my team.
Like seriously it's the same reason why people who like dragons and fire often choose DK's. Or how people who like the feel of being an assassin will go nightblade.
These changes are gonna force me to play a vampire as a dps. If I wanna do anything outside of that have to be at stage 1. I dont look nor do I feel like a powerful vampire at stage 1.
And "significant buffs"? Lol no, nononono. These skill changes are doing nothing but making you work alot harder for exactly the same or slightly higher dps. Now granted that's just from the play test's Ive seen when people compare their current dps to pts dps.
But back to the bigger picture, there is literally no incentive to be a stage 4 vamp.
Think about that.
Stage 4 was supposed to be the pinnacle of vampiric power and now there is no reason to be there. Well unless you wanna have a super niche sprint/cloak nightblade or DK for pvp lol.
They made these changes thinking they were dealing with WW lol. No. The new skills look good and are flashy and all that, but when it comes down to viability they are going to fall short.
And a question for you, do you really not see a problem with people staying at stage 1 just to use the 1 or 2 good abilites? That's literally what people where complaining about players doing on live. Only being a vamp for a few passives. Now I'm only being a vamp but not for the passives but for a skill. ZOS obviously made these changes with the idea that you would be using most if not all the new vamp abilities.
More vampire stages should not = less power.
Less vampire stages should not = more power.
As it is now, one could get all of the vamp abilities and none of the stage 4 bs and put out just as much damage if not more.
Stage 4 is the pinnacle of Vampirirc power. But it's not the pinnacle of your class/healer's power. So I don't think you are looking at it in the correct way. If you want to maintain a balance between your regular class (healer) and your vampire - then a lower stage would be ideal. Stage 4 is for people who want to become full fledged vampires and leave their humanity behind. ^^ Now whether that is effective or not remains to be seen. But that is the idea behind it.
But like I said, I think you are stressing way too much over being stage 4 and your response to me hasn't change my mind. For some reason players have it in their head they must become a stage 4 Vampire or not be one at all and I just don't get it. The new system is designed in such a way that you can choose which stage is best for you. But then again if you don't like any of the Vampire abilities and don't consider them a benefit there is little reason for you to be one at all (at any stage). So if that's how you feel, then yeah, you probably should cure it. The stages are largely irrelevant at that point, because none of them are going to be worth it if you don't consider their abilities beneficial.
Edited by Jeremy on April 26, 2020 12:10AM1 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD
less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks
The problem with what you are saying is you're assuming that this strategy is best for ESO.
It's not, imo. ESO is an MMORPG. That means it needs active people in the community for it to thrive. And that means it needs to be lore friendly AND accessible and enjoyable for many different play styles.
I don't think werewolf being so limited was ever good and vampire following suit is a bummer for all of us that liked being vampires but have to cure to keep our builds viable.
I am fine with it being an active choice and having some drawbacks, but niche, in an MMO, just means less people enjoy the content... and I personally believe that is not in the game's best interest. My two cents.3 -
Nova_J✭✭✭✭Ryath_Waylander wrote: »
Dedicate to being a vampire?... that means if one chooses to become one, that would be all they could realistically do in the game on that character. And still be hindered by the drawbacks, and maintaining the form. It is a game for crying out loud!Nemesis7884 wrote: »(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD
less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks
Some people who find the game too easy, seem to have used the vampire remake to convince ZOS to use that form to make the game artificially harder. This should never happen. Noone besides the 0.1% who find the game too easy would ever play a vampire again.
I think you're a little off base here. "Dedicate to being a vampire" doesn't necessarily mean filling your bar with nothing but vampire abilities, wearing black tuxedos with frilly shirts and spending your days down in Riften chatting in the emote channel. It just means that it's no longer little more than a free magicka regen bonus. It makes enough changes that it will alter your playstyle, thus becoming something that requires you put a little more thought into it.
Basically, that dedication is just referring to the fact that if you want the benifits, you're going to have to do something to compensate for the drawbacks because you can't just ignore them anymore.
There is no way I can alter my playstyle to remain an effective vampire healer with these envisioned changes. Maybe it is possible with a dps character. I enjoyed the irony of being a healer and a vampire. ZoS has decided that no, I can't play the way I want. So now I must choose to enjoy helping my guildies as a healer or be a functionally useless vampire. Time to see the light I guess. The fallen Templar must be redeemed.
Exactly, I have a vampire-necro healer that Im having a blast on! There's now no way you I can be anything past stage 1 anymore. I love vampires, have all the movies, all the games, been one on almost every skyrim game. And I loved eso's version of vampire that made allowed me to be able towork around its weakness to stay viable in all endgame content. These changes are treating vamps like a full fledged calss when its not. It only has 6 skills, and NONE of them are for healing my team. There is literally no point in having my character be a vamp anymore unless I make it a dps.
These changes are doing nothing but pigeonholing people into playing one way. I mean seriously the majority of players that even keep being vamps after this are just gonna stay at stage one for the skills. That's it. You're trading people only being vamps for passives, to people only being vamps for 1 or 2 skills. 😑😑
Lol it's funny how people who have "tested" this have all been dps. Because that's all vamps are for now....oh wait im sorry lol it's only for magdps. Maybe a tank, with a strong emphasis on maybe.
Vampires and NOT like the dogs. They were built like the other guilds skill lines to compliment your character/builds and were centered around their passives. Now there isn't even any point to go stage 4. But I love vampires so much that for me personally, that wouldn't be much of a problem if it had no real benefit, but those negatives make it impossible on my healer.
If ZOS wants vamps to be played like that, then they need to add 2 more skill lines.
All in all I'm might have to end up curing my vamps if these changes go live, which is shame because ths whole aesthetic of this toon was based around it being a vamp.
Smh play how you want my a**.
I don't understand why people feel advancing in stages is so necessary. You already get dark stalker at stage 1 now. The stage 2 and 4 passives are entirely new and didn't even exist for Vampires prior to Greymoor. So literally the only thing you are losing from your previous Vampire build by staying at stage 1 is undeath, which is probably the most grossly overrated ability in the game. Frankly the decrease in fire damage you are going to take will more than make up for that in my opinion.
So I think people are stressing way too much over the penalty at higher stages of Vampirism. If the higher stages don't suit you - then just take a pass on it and enjoy the significant buffs to your vampire skills. There is no need to cure your vampire because of this.
.........maybe you did not read the part where I stated I am a necro-healer lol. What vamp abilities can I run and benefit my team with??? And again, I love being a vampire in its fullest state, which in this case is stage 4. Not everybody in this game is worried about putting put the best dps numbers smh. I like to give my characters actual character, meaning that I like my character being a full vampire and not being forced to use stage 1 because anything past that would be a death sentence to my team.
Like seriously it's the same reason why people who like dragons and fire often choose DK's. Or how people who like the feel of being an assassin will go nightblade.
These changes are gonna force me to play a vampire as a dps. If I wanna do anything outside of that have to be at stage 1. I dont look nor do I feel like a powerful vampire at stage 1.
And "significant buffs"? Lol no, nononono. These skill changes are doing nothing but making you work alot harder for exactly the same or slightly higher dps. Now granted that's just from the play test's Ive seen when people compare their current dps to pts dps.
But back to the bigger picture, there is literally no incentive to be a stage 4 vamp.
Think about that.
Stage 4 was supposed to be the pinnacle of vampiric power and now there is no reason to be there. Well unless you wanna have a super niche sprint/cloak nightblade or DK for pvp lol.
They made these changes thinking they were dealing with WW lol. No. The new skills look good and are flashy and all that, but when it comes down to viability they are going to fall short.
And a question for you, do you really not see a problem with people staying at stage 1 just to use the 1 or 2 good abilites? That's literally what people where complaining about players doing on live. Only being a vamp for a few passives. Now I'm only being a vamp but not for the passives but for a skill. ZOS obviously made these changes with the idea that you would be using most if not all the new vamp abilities.
More vampire stages should not = less power.
Less vampire stages should not = more power.
As it is now, one could get all of the vamp abilities and none of the stage 4 bs and put out just as much damage if not more.
Stage 4 is the pinnacle of Vampirirc power. But it's not the pinnacle of your class/healer's power. So I don't think you are looking at it in the correct way. If you want to maintain a balance between your regular class (healer) and your vampire - then a lower stage would be ideal. Stage 4 is for people who want to become full fledged vampires and leave their humanity behind. ^^ Now whether that is effective or not remains to be seen. But that is the idea behind it.
But like I said, I think you are stressing way too much over being stage 4 and your response to me hasn't change my mind. For some reason players have it in their head they must become a stage 4 Vampire or not be one at all and I just don't get it. The new system is designed in such a way that you can choose which stage is best for you. But then again if you don't like any of the Vampire abilities and don't consider them a benefit there is little reason for you to be one at all (at any stage). So if that's how you feel, then yeah, you probably should cure it. The stages are largely irrelevant at that point, because none of them are going to be worth it if you don't consider their abilities beneficial.
Ahhhhhh I see, so the only way for me to be a full vampire now is if I'm putting out damage? Lol good to know.
Lol and forgive me for thinking that being in stage 4 and "leaving my humanity behind" would lead to more power than staying in the same state as a vamp new born smh.
Vampires have always been more than glorified dps, so sad to see that changing.
But it just seems that too many people have a problem with something having strengths lol.6 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Blah blah blah... Yeah right, if some of you don't care about cloak then why go stage 4?
Because right now if your answer to the question of whether or not the penalty is too great is to stay at stage one, then the answer is yes, the penalty is too great and needs to be altered so it's less severe. And this goes for @Jeremy as well. The question is not how to get around the penalty. The question is about the penalty itself.
I tried to explain this to you earlier. Whether the stage 4 penalty is "too great" or not wasn't the point of my comments. I was trying to end all the rampant misinformation out there that it's impossible for a vampire to coexist with their regular abilities due to the ability cost increase. Because that's simply not the case.
Obviously it is if your "solution" is to remain at stage one. You're just undermining your own argument now."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."4 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Blah blah blah... Yeah right, if some of you don't care about cloak then why go stage 4?
Because right now if your answer to the question of whether or not the penalty is too great is to stay at stage one, then the answer is yes, the penalty is too great and needs to be altered so it's less severe. And this goes for @Jeremy as well. The question is not how to get around the penalty. The question is about the penalty itself.
I tried to explain this to you earlier. Whether the stage 4 penalty is "too great" or not wasn't the point of my comments. I was trying to end all the rampant misinformation out there that it's impossible for a vampire to coexist with their regular abilities due to the ability cost increase. Because that's simply not the case.
Obviously it is if your "solution" is to remain at stage one. You're just undermining your own argument now.
No, that is the solution. There is a reason there are different stages of Vampire. If everyone was suppose to just become stage 4 then what is even the point of having different stages in the first place?
You are the one who is undermining your own argument, by refusing to accept that they are already real solutions provided by the game (not by me) who want to play as a Vampire yet still make frequent use of their regular abilities. This idea that this is no longer possible is complete hooey.
You and some others are simply obsessed with becoming stage 4 vampire because it makes you feel "more powerful" or something (even though it actually makes you weaker if you plan on using a lot of your regular abilities). It's one of the oddest arguments I've ever seen.
Edited by Jeremy on April 26, 2020 12:43AM1 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭These changes are gonna force me to play a vampire as a dps. If I wanna do anything outside of that have to be at stage 1. I dont look nor do I feel like a powerful vampire at stage 1.
Not to mention the fact that even if you are all DPS, you're being pigeonholed at stage 4 into using pretty much nothing but vampire abilities. That puts a lot of pressure on those abilities being pretty damn awesome, which they aren't. Putting aside potential damage output for a moment, how is it that a vampire is a "powerful mage" if all they do is a weak swipe with their claws and turn into gas if you hurt them too much? The abilities are cool, don't get me wrong. But they're not "everyone should put them all on their bar" level, nor should they be."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ryath_Waylander wrote: »
Dedicate to being a vampire?... that means if one chooses to become one, that would be all they could realistically do in the game on that character. And still be hindered by the drawbacks, and maintaining the form. It is a game for crying out loud!Nemesis7884 wrote: »(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD
less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks
Some people who find the game too easy, seem to have used the vampire remake to convince ZOS to use that form to make the game artificially harder. This should never happen. Noone besides the 0.1% who find the game too easy would ever play a vampire again.
I think you're a little off base here. "Dedicate to being a vampire" doesn't necessarily mean filling your bar with nothing but vampire abilities, wearing black tuxedos with frilly shirts and spending your days down in Riften chatting in the emote channel. It just means that it's no longer little more than a free magicka regen bonus. It makes enough changes that it will alter your playstyle, thus becoming something that requires you put a little more thought into it.
Basically, that dedication is just referring to the fact that if you want the benifits, you're going to have to do something to compensate for the drawbacks because you can't just ignore them anymore.
There is no way I can alter my playstyle to remain an effective vampire healer with these envisioned changes. Maybe it is possible with a dps character. I enjoyed the irony of being a healer and a vampire. ZoS has decided that no, I can't play the way I want. So now I must choose to enjoy helping my guildies as a healer or be a functionally useless vampire. Time to see the light I guess. The fallen Templar must be redeemed.
Exactly, I have a vampire-necro healer that Im having a blast on! There's now no way you I can be anything past stage 1 anymore. I love vampires, have all the movies, all the games, been one on almost every skyrim game. And I loved eso's version of vampire that made allowed me to be able towork around its weakness to stay viable in all endgame content. These changes are treating vamps like a full fledged calss when its not. It only has 6 skills, and NONE of them are for healing my team. There is literally no point in having my character be a vamp anymore unless I make it a dps.
These changes are doing nothing but pigeonholing people into playing one way. I mean seriously the majority of players that even keep being vamps after this are just gonna stay at stage one for the skills. That's it. You're trading people only being vamps for passives, to people only being vamps for 1 or 2 skills. 😑😑
Lol it's funny how people who have "tested" this have all been dps. Because that's all vamps are for now....oh wait im sorry lol it's only for magdps. Maybe a tank, with a strong emphasis on maybe.
Vampires and NOT like the dogs. They were built like the other guilds skill lines to compliment your character/builds and were centered around their passives. Now there isn't even any point to go stage 4. But I love vampires so much that for me personally, that wouldn't be much of a problem if it had no real benefit, but those negatives make it impossible on my healer.
If ZOS wants vamps to be played like that, then they need to add 2 more skill lines.
All in all I'm might have to end up curing my vamps if these changes go live, which is shame because ths whole aesthetic of this toon was based around it being a vamp.
Smh play how you want my a**.
I don't understand why people feel advancing in stages is so necessary. You already get dark stalker at stage 1 now. The stage 2 and 4 passives are entirely new and didn't even exist for Vampires prior to Greymoor. So literally the only thing you are losing from your previous Vampire build by staying at stage 1 is undeath, which is probably the most grossly overrated ability in the game. Frankly the decrease in fire damage you are going to take will more than make up for that in my opinion.
So I think people are stressing way too much over the penalty at higher stages of Vampirism. If the higher stages don't suit you - then just take a pass on it and enjoy the significant buffs to your vampire skills. There is no need to cure your vampire because of this.
.........maybe you did not read the part where I stated I am a necro-healer lol. What vamp abilities can I run and benefit my team with??? And again, I love being a vampire in its fullest state, which in this case is stage 4. Not everybody in this game is worried about putting put the best dps numbers smh. I like to give my characters actual character, meaning that I like my character being a full vampire and not being forced to use stage 1 because anything past that would be a death sentence to my team.
Like seriously it's the same reason why people who like dragons and fire often choose DK's. Or how people who like the feel of being an assassin will go nightblade.
These changes are gonna force me to play a vampire as a dps. If I wanna do anything outside of that have to be at stage 1. I dont look nor do I feel like a powerful vampire at stage 1.
And "significant buffs"? Lol no, nononono. These skill changes are doing nothing but making you work alot harder for exactly the same or slightly higher dps. Now granted that's just from the play test's Ive seen when people compare their current dps to pts dps.
But back to the bigger picture, there is literally no incentive to be a stage 4 vamp.
Think about that.
Stage 4 was supposed to be the pinnacle of vampiric power and now there is no reason to be there. Well unless you wanna have a super niche sprint/cloak nightblade or DK for pvp lol.
They made these changes thinking they were dealing with WW lol. No. The new skills look good and are flashy and all that, but when it comes down to viability they are going to fall short.
And a question for you, do you really not see a problem with people staying at stage 1 just to use the 1 or 2 good abilites? That's literally what people where complaining about players doing on live. Only being a vamp for a few passives. Now I'm only being a vamp but not for the passives but for a skill. ZOS obviously made these changes with the idea that you would be using most if not all the new vamp abilities.
More vampire stages should not = less power.
Less vampire stages should not = more power.
As it is now, one could get all of the vamp abilities and none of the stage 4 bs and put out just as much damage if not more.
Stage 4 is the pinnacle of Vampirirc power. But it's not the pinnacle of your class/healer's power. So I don't think you are looking at it in the correct way. If you want to maintain a balance between your regular class (healer) and your vampire - then a lower stage would be ideal. Stage 4 is for people who want to become full fledged vampires and leave their humanity behind. ^^ Now whether that is effective or not remains to be seen. But that is the idea behind it.
But like I said, I think you are stressing way too much over being stage 4 and your response to me hasn't change my mind. For some reason players have it in their head they must become a stage 4 Vampire or not be one at all and I just don't get it. The new system is designed in such a way that you can choose which stage is best for you. But then again if you don't like any of the Vampire abilities and don't consider them a benefit there is little reason for you to be one at all (at any stage). So if that's how you feel, then yeah, you probably should cure it. The stages are largely irrelevant at that point, because none of them are going to be worth it if you don't consider their abilities beneficial.
Ahhhhhh I see, so the only way for me to be a full vampire now is if I'm putting out damage? Lol good to know.
Lol and forgive me for thinking that being in stage 4 and "leaving my humanity behind" would lead to more power than staying in the same state as a vamp new born smh.
Vampires have always been more than glorified dps, so sad to see that changing.
But it just seems that too many people have a problem with something having strengths lol.
That's how the game describes it, by becoming more "corrupted" at the "cost of your humanity". That's not me speaking there. It's the developers.
But yeah, I think you are essentially correct here. If you want to become a full fledged stage 4 Vampire then being a tank or a healer is probably going to be tricky to pull off under the new system. I'm not saying it's impossible. But it would definitely require a different approach then what you may be used to.
I disagree with your last point, because Vampires are more powerful now then they were prior to Greymoor. They have better abilities and a wider selection. Vampire never had any skills that healed party members. So I don't understand what about Greymoor makes you think it's a step backwards for Vampire healers in terms of skills not being a benefit to the team.Edited by Jeremy on April 26, 2020 12:36AM1 -
Vetixio✭✭✭✭The cost increase is ridiculous and harms all Vampire players whether they be magicka or stamina DPS, Healer or a Tank. Not to mention not regenerating any health at all. And all the people trying to say 'but my Werewolf' Werewolf has 1 weakness only when transformed a solid buff when non transformed. Side to side Werewolves greatly outclass Vampires in terms of passives, skills and dps.Pìerre - Breton Vampire Templar, Grand Overlord. Erádàn - Bosmer Templar, Warlord. Vyríc - Imperial Vampire Necromancer, Centurion. Sybìl - Breton Sorcerer, Centurion. Erìch - Nord Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Njàll - Nord Templar, Lieutenant. Elánnà - Bosmer Warden, Veteran. Laquì - Redguard Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Noveni Dres - Dunmer Sorcerer, Lieutenant. Marìnus - Imperial Warden, Veteran. Arvyn Indoril - Dunmer Templar, Sergeant. Rósalyn - Breton Sorcerer, Corporal. Emelîn - Bosmer Dragonknight, Corporal. Astaroth Indoril - Dunmer Sorcerer.8
-
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭These changes are gonna force me to play a vampire as a dps. If I wanna do anything outside of that have to be at stage 1. I dont look nor do I feel like a powerful vampire at stage 1.
Not to mention the fact that even if you are all DPS, you're being pigeonholed at stage 4 into using pretty much nothing but vampire abilities. That puts a lot of pressure on those abilities being pretty damn awesome, which they aren't. Putting aside potential damage output for a moment, how is it that a vampire is a "powerful mage" if all they do is a weak swipe with their claws and turn into gas if you hurt them too much? The abilities are cool, don't get me wrong. But they're not "everyone should put them all on their bar" level, nor should they be.
/sigh
No one is "pigeonholed" at stage 4.
What stage you choose is completely up to you. Under the old system, when using Vampire Abilities rapidly advanced your stage I would be tempted to agree with you. But under this new system, that's not a concern.1 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Blah blah blah... Yeah right, if some of you don't care about cloak then why go stage 4?
Because right now if your answer to the question of whether or not the penalty is too great is to stay at stage one, then the answer is yes, the penalty is too great and needs to be altered so it's less severe. And this goes for @Jeremy as well. The question is not how to get around the penalty. The question is about the penalty itself.
I tried to explain this to you earlier. Whether the stage 4 penalty is "too great" or not wasn't the point of my comments. I was trying to end all the rampant misinformation out there that it's impossible for a vampire to coexist with their regular abilities due to the ability cost increase. Because that's simply not the case.
Obviously it is if your "solution" is to remain at stage one. You're just undermining your own argument now.
No, that is the solution. There is a reason there are different stages of Vampire. If everyone was suppose to just become stage 4 then what is even the point of having different stages in the first place?
They are there because vampires are supposed to get more powerful as they feed. Not so they become identical drones who don't remember how to cast a damn fireball."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."5 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Blah blah blah... Yeah right, if some of you don't care about cloak then why go stage 4?
That's a great question. And one I can't really get a straight answer on.
All I keep getting are these vague notions about how it makes them feel more powerful to be at stage 4 and more complete as a Vampire or something - even though it severely weakens their particular builds...
Almost all of the complaints about the Vampire changes stems from these players who for some reason want to advance to stage 4 for no logical reason.Edited by Jeremy on April 26, 2020 12:47AM1 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭These changes are gonna force me to play a vampire as a dps. If I wanna do anything outside of that have to be at stage 1. I dont look nor do I feel like a powerful vampire at stage 1.
Not to mention the fact that even if you are all DPS, you're being pigeonholed at stage 4 into using pretty much nothing but vampire abilities. That puts a lot of pressure on those abilities being pretty damn awesome, which they aren't. Putting aside potential damage output for a moment, how is it that a vampire is a "powerful mage" if all they do is a weak swipe with their claws and turn into gas if you hurt them too much? The abilities are cool, don't get me wrong. But they're not "everyone should put them all on their bar" level, nor should they be.
/sigh
No one is "pigeonholed" at stage 4.
What stage you choose is completely up to you. Under the old system, when using Vampire Abilities rapidly advanced your stage I would be tempted to agree with you. But under this new system, that's not a concern.
Here we go again. "No one is pigeonholed at stage 4 because you can just stay at stage 1." FFS, it's like asking what flight you should take to Denver and having the guy at the counter keep insisting that you can rent a car."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."9 -
Nova_J✭✭✭✭Ryath_Waylander wrote: »
Dedicate to being a vampire?... that means if one chooses to become one, that would be all they could realistically do in the game on that character. And still be hindered by the drawbacks, and maintaining the form. It is a game for crying out loud!Nemesis7884 wrote: »(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD
less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks
Some people who find the game too easy, seem to have used the vampire remake to convince ZOS to use that form to make the game artificially harder. This should never happen. Noone besides the 0.1% who find the game too easy would ever play a vampire again.
I think you're a little off base here. "Dedicate to being a vampire" doesn't necessarily mean filling your bar with nothing but vampire abilities, wearing black tuxedos with frilly shirts and spending your days down in Riften chatting in the emote channel. It just means that it's no longer little more than a free magicka regen bonus. It makes enough changes that it will alter your playstyle, thus becoming something that requires you put a little more thought into it.
Basically, that dedication is just referring to the fact that if you want the benifits, you're going to have to do something to compensate for the drawbacks because you can't just ignore them anymore.
There is no way I can alter my playstyle to remain an effective vampire healer with these envisioned changes. Maybe it is possible with a dps character. I enjoyed the irony of being a healer and a vampire. ZoS has decided that no, I can't play the way I want. So now I must choose to enjoy helping my guildies as a healer or be a functionally useless vampire. Time to see the light I guess. The fallen Templar must be redeemed.
Exactly, I have a vampire-necro healer that Im having a blast on! There's now no way you I can be anything past stage 1 anymore. I love vampires, have all the movies, all the games, been one on almost every skyrim game. And I loved eso's version of vampire that made allowed me to be able towork around its weakness to stay viable in all endgame content. These changes are treating vamps like a full fledged calss when its not. It only has 6 skills, and NONE of them are for healing my team. There is literally no point in having my character be a vamp anymore unless I make it a dps.
These changes are doing nothing but pigeonholing people into playing one way. I mean seriously the majority of players that even keep being vamps after this are just gonna stay at stage one for the skills. That's it. You're trading people only being vamps for passives, to people only being vamps for 1 or 2 skills. 😑😑
Lol it's funny how people who have "tested" this have all been dps. Because that's all vamps are for now....oh wait im sorry lol it's only for magdps. Maybe a tank, with a strong emphasis on maybe.
Vampires and NOT like the dogs. They were built like the other guilds skill lines to compliment your character/builds and were centered around their passives. Now there isn't even any point to go stage 4. But I love vampires so much that for me personally, that wouldn't be much of a problem if it had no real benefit, but those negatives make it impossible on my healer.
If ZOS wants vamps to be played like that, then they need to add 2 more skill lines.
All in all I'm might have to end up curing my vamps if these changes go live, which is shame because ths whole aesthetic of this toon was based around it being a vamp.
Smh play how you want my a**.
I don't understand why people feel advancing in stages is so necessary. You already get dark stalker at stage 1 now. The stage 2 and 4 passives are entirely new and didn't even exist for Vampires prior to Greymoor. So literally the only thing you are losing from your previous Vampire build by staying at stage 1 is undeath, which is probably the most grossly overrated ability in the game. Frankly the decrease in fire damage you are going to take will more than make up for that in my opinion.
So I think people are stressing way too much over the penalty at higher stages of Vampirism. If the higher stages don't suit you - then just take a pass on it and enjoy the significant buffs to your vampire skills. There is no need to cure your vampire because of this.
.........maybe you did not read the part where I stated I am a necro-healer lol. What vamp abilities can I run and benefit my team with??? And again, I love being a vampire in its fullest state, which in this case is stage 4. Not everybody in this game is worried about putting put the best dps numbers smh. I like to give my characters actual character, meaning that I like my character being a full vampire and not being forced to use stage 1 because anything past that would be a death sentence to my team.
Like seriously it's the same reason why people who like dragons and fire often choose DK's. Or how people who like the feel of being an assassin will go nightblade.
These changes are gonna force me to play a vampire as a dps. If I wanna do anything outside of that have to be at stage 1. I dont look nor do I feel like a powerful vampire at stage 1.
And "significant buffs"? Lol no, nononono. These skill changes are doing nothing but making you work alot harder for exactly the same or slightly higher dps. Now granted that's just from the play test's Ive seen when people compare their current dps to pts dps.
But back to the bigger picture, there is literally no incentive to be a stage 4 vamp.
Think about that.
Stage 4 was supposed to be the pinnacle of vampiric power and now there is no reason to be there. Well unless you wanna have a super niche sprint/cloak nightblade or DK for pvp lol.
They made these changes thinking they were dealing with WW lol. No. The new skills look good and are flashy and all that, but when it comes down to viability they are going to fall short.
And a question for you, do you really not see a problem with people staying at stage 1 just to use the 1 or 2 good abilites? That's literally what people where complaining about players doing on live. Only being a vamp for a few passives. Now I'm only being a vamp but not for the passives but for a skill. ZOS obviously made these changes with the idea that you would be using most if not all the new vamp abilities.
More vampire stages should not = less power.
Less vampire stages should not = more power.
As it is now, one could get all of the vamp abilities and none of the stage 4 bs and put out just as much damage if not more.
Stage 4 is the pinnacle of Vampirirc power. But it's not the pinnacle of your class/healer's power. So I don't think you are looking at it in the correct way. If you want to maintain a balance between your regular class (healer) and your vampire - then a lower stage would be ideal. Stage 4 is for people who want to become full fledged vampires and leave their humanity behind. ^^ Now whether that is effective or not remains to be seen. But that is the idea behind it.
But like I said, I think you are stressing way too much over being stage 4 and your response to me hasn't change my mind. For some reason players have it in their head they must become a stage 4 Vampire or not be one at all and I just don't get it. The new system is designed in such a way that you can choose which stage is best for you. But then again if you don't like any of the Vampire abilities and don't consider them a benefit there is little reason for you to be one at all (at any stage). So if that's how you feel, then yeah, you probably should cure it. The stages are largely irrelevant at that point, because none of them are going to be worth it if you don't consider their abilities beneficial.
Ahhhhhh I see, so the only way for me to be a full vampire now is if I'm putting out damage? Lol good to know.
Lol and forgive me for thinking that being in stage 4 and "leaving my humanity behind" would lead to more power than staying in the same state as a vamp new born smh.
Vampires have always been more than glorified dps, so sad to see that changing.
But it just seems that too many people have a problem with something having strengths lol.
That's how the game describes it, by becoming more "corrupted" at the "cost of your humanity". That's not me speaking there. It's the developers.
But yeah, I think you are essentially correct here. If you want to become a full fledged stage 4 Vampire then being a tank or a healer is probably going to be tricky to pull off under the new system. I'm not saying it's impossible. But it would definitely require a different approach then what you may be used to.
I disagree with your last point, because Vampires are more powerful now then they were prior to Greymoor. They have better abilities and a wider selection. Vampire never had any skills that healed party members. So I don't understand what about Greymoor makes you think it's a step backwards for Vampire healers in terms of skills not being a benefit to the team.
If can be a healer,dps or tank as the vampire is now, but cant be one of those after the changes go through, then yes that is a step backwards. This was supposed to give vamps more options right? It's not doing that at all, it's just making you play one way.
I could still be a vamp from stage 1-4 and do my job perfectly, now that is no longer an option.
I never said they should have had vampire team healing abilities, I said that I wont be able to use my healing abilities at anything past stage 1 without being heavily and unnecessarily penalized. And that was in response to you saying that I should be happy because all of the vamp abilities were buffed.....but I cant use any of them because the character is a healer and those buffs dont mean anything for that toon.
And yes, they have more abilities, but again this just feels like we got more for less.8 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Blah blah blah... Yeah right, if some of you don't care about cloak then why go stage 4?
Because right now if your answer to the question of whether or not the penalty is too great is to stay at stage one, then the answer is yes, the penalty is too great and needs to be altered so it's less severe. And this goes for @Jeremy as well. The question is not how to get around the penalty. The question is about the penalty itself.
I tried to explain this to you earlier. Whether the stage 4 penalty is "too great" or not wasn't the point of my comments. I was trying to end all the rampant misinformation out there that it's impossible for a vampire to coexist with their regular abilities due to the ability cost increase. Because that's simply not the case.
Obviously it is if your "solution" is to remain at stage one. You're just undermining your own argument now.
No, that is the solution. There is a reason there are different stages of Vampire. If everyone was suppose to just become stage 4 then what is even the point of having different stages in the first place?
They are there because vampires are supposed to get more powerful as they feed. Not so they become identical drones who don't remember how to cast a damn fireball.
The game says they become more corrupted as they feed. You have to get it out of your head that all builds are suppose to become more powerful by advancing to stage 4. That is not how it works.
Edited by Jeremy on April 26, 2020 12:55AM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ryath_Waylander wrote: »
Dedicate to being a vampire?... that means if one chooses to become one, that would be all they could realistically do in the game on that character. And still be hindered by the drawbacks, and maintaining the form. It is a game for crying out loud!Nemesis7884 wrote: »(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD
less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks
Some people who find the game too easy, seem to have used the vampire remake to convince ZOS to use that form to make the game artificially harder. This should never happen. Noone besides the 0.1% who find the game too easy would ever play a vampire again.
I think you're a little off base here. "Dedicate to being a vampire" doesn't necessarily mean filling your bar with nothing but vampire abilities, wearing black tuxedos with frilly shirts and spending your days down in Riften chatting in the emote channel. It just means that it's no longer little more than a free magicka regen bonus. It makes enough changes that it will alter your playstyle, thus becoming something that requires you put a little more thought into it.
Basically, that dedication is just referring to the fact that if you want the benifits, you're going to have to do something to compensate for the drawbacks because you can't just ignore them anymore.
There is no way I can alter my playstyle to remain an effective vampire healer with these envisioned changes. Maybe it is possible with a dps character. I enjoyed the irony of being a healer and a vampire. ZoS has decided that no, I can't play the way I want. So now I must choose to enjoy helping my guildies as a healer or be a functionally useless vampire. Time to see the light I guess. The fallen Templar must be redeemed.
Exactly, I have a vampire-necro healer that Im having a blast on! There's now no way you I can be anything past stage 1 anymore. I love vampires, have all the movies, all the games, been one on almost every skyrim game. And I loved eso's version of vampire that made allowed me to be able towork around its weakness to stay viable in all endgame content. These changes are treating vamps like a full fledged calss when its not. It only has 6 skills, and NONE of them are for healing my team. There is literally no point in having my character be a vamp anymore unless I make it a dps.
These changes are doing nothing but pigeonholing people into playing one way. I mean seriously the majority of players that even keep being vamps after this are just gonna stay at stage one for the skills. That's it. You're trading people only being vamps for passives, to people only being vamps for 1 or 2 skills. 😑😑
Lol it's funny how people who have "tested" this have all been dps. Because that's all vamps are for now....oh wait im sorry lol it's only for magdps. Maybe a tank, with a strong emphasis on maybe.
Vampires and NOT like the dogs. They were built like the other guilds skill lines to compliment your character/builds and were centered around their passives. Now there isn't even any point to go stage 4. But I love vampires so much that for me personally, that wouldn't be much of a problem if it had no real benefit, but those negatives make it impossible on my healer.
If ZOS wants vamps to be played like that, then they need to add 2 more skill lines.
All in all I'm might have to end up curing my vamps if these changes go live, which is shame because ths whole aesthetic of this toon was based around it being a vamp.
Smh play how you want my a**.
I don't understand why people feel advancing in stages is so necessary. You already get dark stalker at stage 1 now. The stage 2 and 4 passives are entirely new and didn't even exist for Vampires prior to Greymoor. So literally the only thing you are losing from your previous Vampire build by staying at stage 1 is undeath, which is probably the most grossly overrated ability in the game. Frankly the decrease in fire damage you are going to take will more than make up for that in my opinion.
So I think people are stressing way too much over the penalty at higher stages of Vampirism. If the higher stages don't suit you - then just take a pass on it and enjoy the significant buffs to your vampire skills. There is no need to cure your vampire because of this.
.........maybe you did not read the part where I stated I am a necro-healer lol. What vamp abilities can I run and benefit my team with??? And again, I love being a vampire in its fullest state, which in this case is stage 4. Not everybody in this game is worried about putting put the best dps numbers smh. I like to give my characters actual character, meaning that I like my character being a full vampire and not being forced to use stage 1 because anything past that would be a death sentence to my team.
Like seriously it's the same reason why people who like dragons and fire often choose DK's. Or how people who like the feel of being an assassin will go nightblade.
These changes are gonna force me to play a vampire as a dps. If I wanna do anything outside of that have to be at stage 1. I dont look nor do I feel like a powerful vampire at stage 1.
And "significant buffs"? Lol no, nononono. These skill changes are doing nothing but making you work alot harder for exactly the same or slightly higher dps. Now granted that's just from the play test's Ive seen when people compare their current dps to pts dps.
But back to the bigger picture, there is literally no incentive to be a stage 4 vamp.
Think about that.
Stage 4 was supposed to be the pinnacle of vampiric power and now there is no reason to be there. Well unless you wanna have a super niche sprint/cloak nightblade or DK for pvp lol.
They made these changes thinking they were dealing with WW lol. No. The new skills look good and are flashy and all that, but when it comes down to viability they are going to fall short.
And a question for you, do you really not see a problem with people staying at stage 1 just to use the 1 or 2 good abilites? That's literally what people where complaining about players doing on live. Only being a vamp for a few passives. Now I'm only being a vamp but not for the passives but for a skill. ZOS obviously made these changes with the idea that you would be using most if not all the new vamp abilities.
More vampire stages should not = less power.
Less vampire stages should not = more power.
As it is now, one could get all of the vamp abilities and none of the stage 4 bs and put out just as much damage if not more.
Stage 4 is the pinnacle of Vampirirc power. But it's not the pinnacle of your class/healer's power. So I don't think you are looking at it in the correct way. If you want to maintain a balance between your regular class (healer) and your vampire - then a lower stage would be ideal. Stage 4 is for people who want to become full fledged vampires and leave their humanity behind. ^^ Now whether that is effective or not remains to be seen. But that is the idea behind it.
But like I said, I think you are stressing way too much over being stage 4 and your response to me hasn't change my mind. For some reason players have it in their head they must become a stage 4 Vampire or not be one at all and I just don't get it. The new system is designed in such a way that you can choose which stage is best for you. But then again if you don't like any of the Vampire abilities and don't consider them a benefit there is little reason for you to be one at all (at any stage). So if that's how you feel, then yeah, you probably should cure it. The stages are largely irrelevant at that point, because none of them are going to be worth it if you don't consider their abilities beneficial.
Ahhhhhh I see, so the only way for me to be a full vampire now is if I'm putting out damage? Lol good to know.
Lol and forgive me for thinking that being in stage 4 and "leaving my humanity behind" would lead to more power than staying in the same state as a vamp new born smh.
Vampires have always been more than glorified dps, so sad to see that changing.
But it just seems that too many people have a problem with something having strengths lol.
That's how the game describes it, by becoming more "corrupted" at the "cost of your humanity". That's not me speaking there. It's the developers.
But yeah, I think you are essentially correct here. If you want to become a full fledged stage 4 Vampire then being a tank or a healer is probably going to be tricky to pull off under the new system. I'm not saying it's impossible. But it would definitely require a different approach then what you may be used to.
I disagree with your last point, because Vampires are more powerful now then they were prior to Greymoor. They have better abilities and a wider selection. Vampire never had any skills that healed party members. So I don't understand what about Greymoor makes you think it's a step backwards for Vampire healers in terms of skills not being a benefit to the team.
If can be a healer,dps or tank as the vampire is now, but cant be one of those after the changes go through, then yes that is a step backwards. This was supposed to give vamps more options right? It's not doing that at all, it's just making you play one way.
I could still be a vamp from stage 1-4 and do my job perfectly, now that is no longer an option.
I never said they should have had vampire team healing abilities, I said that I wont be able to use my healing abilities at anything past stage 1 without being heavily and unnecessarily penalized. And that was in response to you saying that I should be happy because all of the vamp abilities were buffed.....but I cant use any of them because the character is a healer and those buffs dont mean anything for that toon.
And yes, they have more abilities, but again this just feels like we got more for less.
You can still be a healer or tank as a Vampire. That has not changed. It's not the game's fault if you insist on advancing to stage 4 for no logical reason.
And Vampires never had any skills that healed other players. Nothing has changed in that regard. So again: I don't understand what about Greymoor makes you think you can longer play as a Vampire healer.
What has changed is that the higher stages of Vampire are now reserved for players who want to focus on using Vampirirc abilities. That is all. The stage 2 and 4 passives did not even exist before Greymoor - and they give no direct benefit to healing. And the stage 3 passive is undeath - which also does not directly benefit healing your team.
So again: your entire problem in regards to you feeling like you can no longer play as your healer is entirely of your own making. There is nothing in the game itself that is preventing you from doing it. You just for some reason I cannot understand wish to advance to rank 4 on your healer even though there is no reason to do so.Edited by Jeremy on April 26, 2020 1:08AM2
