Hello! Would YOU like to see these normal vampire NPC skills as a part of the vampire player rework?

Noxavian · April 2020

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I cannot emphasis this enough, watch this 3min video before voting. It showcases all player abilities and compares them to what the normal vampires (yes, just your average everyday vampire that is wandering around) get with the upcoming rework. Big thanks to @XomRhoK for recording this video and showing the community the differences between the two.

The timestamp for the NPC abilities is 2:07 for those that just want to view those. DO NOTE: One of the abilities shown (the bone spikes) is just an NPC necromancer ability that is not new.

For those that have issues with the video or don't want to watch it, here is a summary of the skills the NPCs have:

A uniquely animated Bat Swarm gap closer that deals damage and knocks the target over, it has a bit of charge up as the vampire turns into a swarm of bats.
A life drain siphon that has a very crimson/natural blood feel and sound effect with a dark black tint that lifts the target up into the air (can be interrupted)
The ability to conjure a blood red fiend that has wings with glowing eyes that provides the vampire with a heal/buff.
An AoE blood magic attack that looks like it is casted from the eyes of the vampire.
A teleport that summons a shadow-y blood clone of the vampire that explodes after a few seconds into a big blood AoE. Doesn't look like it can be casted again until after the clone explodes
A slow moving blood-ball projectile
Various different AoE blood magic spells.
The ability to summon an AoE swarm of bats on the ground that looks like a MUCH better and updated version of the bat-swarm ultimate.
A BLOOD SCION transformation that gives access to a delayed blood magic pull that damages and DOESNT use weapons while in the form.

Now, of course we can't get all of these because there is simply too much to fit into 5 player skills and 1 ultimate. HOWEVER. That doesn't mean that some of these ideas cannot be given to the player. And of course some of the skill mechanics might have to be worked around a bit (maybe too much CC), but the animations and base-line for an amazing vampire rework that IMO is far better than what we have atm is there and possible.

What do you guys think? Please, please vote and comment below! Let @ZOS_GinaBruno know what we want to see as a community.

Sephyr · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

And Bat Daddy wings too!

Pl24 · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

I really don't understand why... Why they don't give us these ability... We wait 6 years for this rework... And npc vampire get rework...

Irfind · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

NPC's win by far

Saelent · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

NPCs are actual vampires, the player vampires are wannabe Nightblades.

Thevampirenight · April 2020

Well, I think they wanted to go a unique theme for the various vampires they are showing off.
I think it would be nice to have some of those abilties the bats abilties and the feed when not sneaking.
The thing is though some of the shadow abilties could be reworked into the nightblades actually because some of those abilties actually fit that type of theme better then placing it into the vampire skill line. Like that imp heal and the clone spell thing.
The problem I think is that they might not be willing or able to give more then 5 abilties and one ult in a skill line for the vampire.
So they gave us these abilities and gave npcs some unique abilties.

The issue @Noxavian there is a lot of cool npc abilties that players just don't have. There is many cool things that they just won't give us and that is likely do to balancing. Sure we could ask for it but it doesn't mean they will do it. One has to adjust to that reality, just because they look very neat and cool doesn't mean Zenimax is going to give them to us. I do think that is going to happen here with this. They will likely not give us any of those abilties.

Saelent · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well, I think they wanted to go a unique theme for the various vampires they are showing off.
I think it would be nice to have some of those abilties the bats abilties and the feed when not sneaking.
The thing is though some of the shadow abilties could be reworked into the nightblades actually because some of those abilties actually fit that type of theme better then placing it into the vampire skill line. Like that imp heal and the clone spell thing.
The problem I think is that they might not be willing or able to give more then 5 abilties and one ult in a skill line for the vampire.
So they gave us these abilities and gave npcs some unique abilties.

The issue @Noxavian there is a lot of cool npc abilties that players just don't have. There is many cool things that they just won't give us and that is likely do to balancing. Sure we could ask for it but it doesn't mean they will do it. One has to adjust to that reality, just because they look very neat and cool doesn't mean Zenimax is going to give them to us. I do think that is going to happen here with this. They will likely not give us any of those abilties.

The problem is that these NPC skills look like they are castoffs of what the players were asking for. As if the players almost got these skills but it was decided that things would go a different way.

The fact is that these skills make the vampire actually look like a vampire. Considering that so many things are being removed from Nightblades and added to other classes, at least they would be able to get some back by playing a vampire.

Class identity isn’t really an argument when a skill line available to everyone has the same appearance as a class.
Not to mention that summoning anything but a shade wouldn’t fit the shadow magic of the Nightblade, why would it have an imp? Make the shadow image useful in other ways and give everyone the likes of the imp to use, everyone wins.

Noxavian · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well, I think they wanted to go a unique theme for the various vampires they are showing off.
I think it would be nice to have some of those abilties the bats abilties and the feed when not sneaking.
The thing is though some of the shadow abilties could be reworked into the nightblades actually because some of those abilties actually fit that type of theme better then placing it into the vampire skill line. Like that imp heal and the clone spell thing.
The problem I think is that they might not be willing or able to give more then 5 abilties and one ult in a skill line for the vampire.
So they gave us these abilities and gave npcs some unique abilties.

The issue @Noxavian there is a lot of cool npc abilties that players just don't have. There is many cool things that they just won't give us and that is likely do to balancing. Sure we could ask for it but it doesn't mean they will do it. One has to adjust to that reality, just because they look very neat and cool doesn't mean Zenimax is going to give them to us. I do think that is going to happen here with this. They will likely not give us any of those abilties.

The fact that our siphon doesn't work like the NPCs, we don't have the bat abilities, and our scion ult is also somehow lesser despite being literally the same ability is appalling.

And no, I don't think the issue here is normal. Typically NPCs get class abilities we do. Typically. There are outliers to this, but over all the core of class is the same for npcs. A normal NPC vampire should have the same abilities or near the same abilities as the player.

The fact of the matter is in the current state we DO NOT have this. They very clearly had a chance to throw us some of these abilities, but chose not to for reasons that are unknown. Especially since we got to see the preview of the player abilities before the NPCs. They could of easily made any one of these abilities into a skill for the rework and no one would of noticed because they LOOK and feel like proper skills.

I feel like you're possibly right that they won't throw in any of these. But I remember with Necromancer I didn't put up too much of a fuss about it, I'm not going to do that this time. I at least want to try and get our feedback heard.

The differences between the two are too much. We need a more damaging ability other than a swipe, the bat swarm teleport is the most requested ability ever, the blood scion needs to be more unique.

Ulthlian · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

Bat swarm teleport, blood scion with wings (like the ones in harrowstorms) and drain animation at least

Noxavian · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

Ulthlian wrote: »

Bat swarm teleport, blood scion with wings (like the ones in harrowstorms) and drain animation at least

This!!! I would be fine with this. I would be utterly satisfied.

XomRhoK · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

Noxavian wrote: »

I feel like you're possibly right that they won't throw in any of these. But I remember with Necromancer I didn't put up too much of a fuss about it, I'm not going to do that this time. I at least want to try and get our feedback heard.

I have same thoughts, i even start to play this game only because of possibility to play as a vampire and more "realistic" visuals. Will post and repost in different threads, to more people to hear, maybe it will somehow change the situation. I don't care much of a numbers on the skills, what i am care is a visuals of skills and vampire feeling of gameplay, i can change my gear, some skills, playstyle if i need too, but i can't visuals and feel of the skills.

Repost from General Discusson thread:
I am also think that Blood Scion transformation should alter your vampiric abilities. I already made suggestions in feedback about that, it's not set in stone, but possible direction of changes. Some quick overview:
- In Blood Scion form you can't use Weapon skills and attack with claws, you can use all non weapon skills, your vampire skills receive some improvements.
- Vampiric Drain: while in Blood Scion form additionally restore mana and stamina and can't be interrapted.
- Mist Form: while in Blood Scion form add bat swarm around mist, while in mist form you can use skill as a gap closer on enemy.
- Mesmorize: in regular form it's singe target, melee skill, and you can bite mesmerized players/NPCs restoring HP and ultimate. While in Blood Scion form skill became ranged, you mesmerize and drag enemies to close range and from close range you can bite them, in Blood Scion form instead of ultimate points bite prolong time of your transformation. Visuals with Vampiric Grasp from TES: Skyrim in mind.

Also ZOS can free one more slot for interesting ability. Blood Frenzy can be moved to passives, and HP loss can be achieved by more/all skills consuming HP, if ZOS really want to stick to this mechanics which i don't really like.
And one more slot, if they remove Eviscerate and in return give us oppotunity to attack with claws in Blood Scion form and in regular form by introducing ring(for example) in their new Antiquities system, ring will force unarmed animation and replace it with unarmed claws animation of Bloodfiend NPCs, weapon damage, sets, traits, maybe enchants will still work, just weapon will not be visible. So Light and Heavy attacks will take niche of claw attacks, and will free space for new interesting ability.

But even if ZOS implement this i can’t use it, because i absolutly don't like visuals of Blood Scion form. I don't like horns, i don't like his huge height, bulkiness body, shoulder and hips armor that made him even more bulky, I don't like his slow movement animation, i don't like that he is glowing like christmas tree. I posted a picture in another thread with comparison of what transformations we could get and what we have now:

Abnormal Blood Scion's height:

Cameron991 · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

Please add these abilities into our gameplay zos they seem so beautiful aesthetically and gameplay wise this is the one thing I really want from you all:))

Michaelkeir · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

This is a repeat of how I felt when the necromancers where shown. I felt pissed and highly disappointed. How can a normal person look at the npc vampire abilities and NOT scratch their head in disbelief that we got the short end of the stick? Their powers scream vampire, while ours scream discount knockoff vampire.

My question now is, who on the dev team signed off on this? I mean seriously. I'm a huge fan of both necromancers and vampires and I am at a loss for their design choices.

Now on to the ultimate. As it stands now the Scion form is a blatant ripoff of the Bone Goliath both visually and thematically. I agree that while in the form you should have access to a whole separate skill bar and lose your weapons. I mean who thought it was a good idea to allow us to turn into a vampire lord and have us use tiny weapons instead of our natural vampire abilities and claws. Throw those npc skills on that bar and they would at least be headed in the right direction.

Visual Design choice. The current vampire lord form we have is just....well just bad. Why don't we have toothpick wings like the npc vampire lords? Why are we shaded in this purplish blue hue? Why not a red hue or no hue at all so we can see our character clearly. Why are we so bulky?

I'm just disappointed honestly.

Saelent · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

Aren’t they also changing the defensive abilities of Magicka classes? The teleport would be a perfect replacement! Does something different to streak too, it isn’t a stun, it’s leaves behind a ‘bomb’, make one a morph for damage and the other for heal maybe?

OmniDo · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

Creating abilities for NPC's is an easy task.
There are only two criteria:

Interaction with a single player
Interaction with multiple players

Because these variables are limited, and because game developers tune the exterior world to fit a certain niche; loot tables, quest progress, overland fill, etc...these NPC abilities are easy to facilitate without much difficulty in balancing.

Providing these abilities to players however would require extensive data collection, analysis, and testing, in order to ensure balance to overall gameplay.

If you give an entire playerbase a new skill, then development must consider all possible applications of said skill, for all types of content.

It's not that this process is difficult, but rather time-consuming, and as the good goblins of WoW always say: "Time is money, friend."

Remember, this entire game, its aspects, and its existence, are not to please the public.
This game exists to fill the pockets of shareholders and provide employees a wage.
That's it.

Suligost · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

Maybe, maybe, they gonna give some of those into NB as part of their new identity and long begged rework by people like me... that would be awesome, buying Greymoor if thats true just as sign of gratitude

Saelent · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

OmniDo wrote: »

Creating abilities for NPC's is an easy task.
There are only two criteria:
Interaction with a single player

Interaction with multiple players

Because these variables are limited, and because game developers tune the exterior world to fit a certain niche; loot tables, quest progress, overland fill, etc...these NPC abilities are easy to facilitate without much difficulty in balancing.

Providing these abilities to players however would require extensive data collection, analysis, and testing, in order to ensure balance to overall gameplay.

If you give an entire playerbase a new skill, then development must consider all possible applications of said skill, for all types of content.

It's not that this process is difficult, but rather time-consuming, and as the good goblins of WoW always say: "Time is money, friend."

Remember, this entire game, its aspects, and its existence, are not to please the public.
This game exists to fill the pockets of shareholders and provide employees a wage.
That's it.

Pleasing the public fills their pockets too, that’s why the likes of the crown store works so well.
The idea of the skills not being difficult to implement but taking time is true, but they have made decisions that have appeared rushed before and changed them back.

That’s why this topic needs to be pushed, everything people asked for is unfortunately in those NPCs and the fact is that we should have it.

validifyedneb18_ESO · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

It does seem silly that appparently so much effort accross the entire game has been made to create cool abilities, but the players get access to so few of them.

Realistically the animations and graphics are one of the hardest parts of making a new ability. Its cool to see the level of attension to trash mobs but ZOS could be getting a lot more for the effort they spend with a bit more work to make player abilities.

TheImperfect · April 2020

Maybe! But only if....

If they aren't just eye candy and become useful skills. I like the fiend one in particular.

Vevvev · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

These abilities the NPCs have would actually round out the vampire's toolkit and make them a viable option. Of course there would need to be balancing to make sure they're not OP but the fact the current rework has a single damaging ability with basically no DOTs or AOEs is just not worth it. The Bat Scion morph does exist but it feels tacked on and its an ultimate that requires charging. Its not there all the time.

Cameron991 · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

Saelent wrote: »

OmniDo wrote: »

Creating abilities for NPC's is an easy task.
There are only two criteria:
Interaction with a single player

Interaction with multiple players

Because these variables are limited, and because game developers tune the exterior world to fit a certain niche; loot tables, quest progress, overland fill, etc...these NPC abilities are easy to facilitate without much difficulty in balancing.

Providing these abilities to players however would require extensive data collection, analysis, and testing, in order to ensure balance to overall gameplay.

If you give an entire playerbase a new skill, then development must consider all possible applications of said skill, for all types of content.

It's not that this process is difficult, but rather time-consuming, and as the good goblins of WoW always say: "Time is money, friend."

Remember, this entire game, its aspects, and its existence, are not to please the public.
This game exists to fill the pockets of shareholders and provide employees a wage.
That's it.

Pleasing the public fills their pockets too, that’s why the likes of the crown store works so well.
The idea of the skills not being difficult to implement but taking time is true, but they have made decisions that have appeared rushed before and changed them back.

That’s why this topic needs to be pushed, everything people asked for is unfortunately in those NPCs and the fact is that we should have it.

You’re 100% right, and honestly I really don’t ask zos for much, but this is one thing I actually beg zos to do!

Saelent · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

Vevvev wrote: »

These abilities the NPCs have would actually round out the vampire's toolkit and make them a viable option. Of course there would need to be balancing to make sure they're not OP but the fact the current rework has a single damaging ability with basically no DOTs or AOEs is just not worth it. The Bat Scion morph does exist but it feels tacked on and its an ultimate that requires charging. Its not there all the time.

It would help round out other class builds too.
If that teleport is directed and not a random direction then it would allow other classes to move like a sorcerer but with different (like no stun) effects!

Haven · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

It is not even an option to say no after watching that video. Its a wonder why this wasn't given to the players in the first place. It is exactly what we asked for for years.

Noxavian · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

mrsrobot wrote: »

If they aren't just eye candy and become useful skills. I like the fiend one in particular.

Can agree! I feel like they would be useful though, but we'll only ever know if we get our hands on them.

Noxavian · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

Really curious to hear @ShadowHvo and @TX12001rwb17_ESO 's opinion on this. I think we can all agree that the player version of vampires deserves to have the same thing as the normal vampire NPCs, yeah? Or at least some of the same things.

ShadowHvo · April 2020

No! I like the current state of the player rework instead.

I'm honestly a bit on the fence on this one.

For one, I think that the NPC's visuals are far more lackluster in comparison, the dark brown and reddish orange does not suit my ideal colour-scheme for a vampire. The Black, Red and Violet suits me far better.

As for the actual abilities, while I would've loved a batswarm ability, be it a version of mistform or a literal "Mount" transformation, as well as a gab-closer, I do think that the overall toolkit fits a wide arsenal of the typical Vampire abilities seen in prior TES Installments. The outliers to this of course is Blood Frenzy and Eviscerate, yet they still feel vampiric, at least thematically. (Disregarding the fact that Eviscerate feels like a wet noodle atm, both by sound and looks.)

Memserize is cool, Mistform functions better as a toggle and Drain is.. well, drain is drain. The passives though, feel damn good to me, Unnatural Movement in particular! OUGH. Love it. Just wish it was as black as Shadow Cloak or had a dark greyish mist to it, like in the cinematic trailer.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with it. It's a fairly all-around vampire set.

The abilities in the video however, well, they're just reskins of other class abilities?
- Feeding = old savage feed
- Imp = Warden Cute Netchy Boi
- Blood Spit(?) = DK Fire Breath
- The Teleport / Shadow = NB Reverse Shadow Image // That one boss from Cradle of Shadows.
- Blood Pull(?) = DK "Get the **** Over Here" Chains

The only unique abilities from the NPC that I'm semi jealous about is the dope batswarm. Because bats are cool, yo.

Noxavian · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

ShadowHvo wrote: »

I'm honestly a bit on the fence on this one.

For one, I think that the NPC's visuals are far more lackluster in comparison, the dark brown and reddish orange does not suit my ideal colour-scheme for a vampire. The Black, Red and Violet suits me far better.

As for the actual abilities, while I would've loved a batswarm ability, be it a version of mistform or a literal "Mount" transformation, as well as a gab-closer, I do think that the overall toolkit fits a wide arsenal of the typical Vampire abilities seen in prior TES Installments. The outliers to this of course is Blood Frenzy and Eviscerate, yet they still feel vampiric, at least thematically. (Disregarding the fact that Eviscerate feels like a wet noodle atm, both by sound and looks.)

Memserize is cool, Mistform functions better as a toggle and Drain is.. well, drain is drain. The passives though, feel damn good to me, Unnatural Movement in particular! OUGH. Love it. Just wish it was as black as Shadow Cloak or had a dark greyish mist to it, like in the cinematic trailer.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with it. It's a fairly all-around vampire set.

The abilities in the video however, well, they're just reskins of other class abilities?
- Feeding = old savage feed
- Imp = Warden Cute Netchy Boi
- Blood Spit(?) = DK Fire Breath
- The Teleport / Shadow = NB Reverse Shadow Image // That one boss from Cradle of Shadows.
- Blood Pull(?) = DK "Get the **** Over Here" Chains

The only unique abilities from the NPC that I'm semi jealous about is the dope batswarm. Because bats are cool, yo.

I don't understand why we as players can't get the batswarm ground AoE or gap closer at the very least. And I genuinely do not understand how you can think the current toolkit fits a wide arsenal of the typical vampire abilities we see when we have almost nothing in common with these normal vampires in terms of abilities. I would argue blood frenzy makes the least amount of sense in that argument. A vampire shouldn't be able to control when or when not they go into a blood frenzy, that is kinda weird and destroys the whole 'frenzy' part. More like vampiric rage if anything. Where's the blood magic? The cool bat themed abilities?

I can agree Mesmerize (at least the AoE morph) looks cool, the effects of it however are not cool. If it did damage to hostile NPCs in any sort of way, I would be on board with it being cool. They completely gutted drain though, the NPC variant is clearly way better and looks way better, no? It deals more damage, CCs, and the animation/looks of it are amazing. And it should be worth mentioning that this thread is purely about the vampire abilities, not the passives.

There is something pretty wrong with the vampire set, though. The ultimate is a re-skin of an already existing ability, the only source of actual damage from the entire ability list is a melee claw wet noodle attack. IMO blood frenzy should not of even been an ability, it is boring and uninspiring. If you like it, that's cool, but it isn't 'alright' by any means tbh.

And the abilities aren't completely reskins:

-The feeding as a similar, more updated animation of the old savage feeding except it was turned into a base blood drain ability that looks surprisingly cool in combat.
-Imp is 100% a reskin like you mentioned, but it still looks very cool.
-Blood gaze/spit doesn't really look anything like DK fire breath and has a way bigger cone.
-The shadow teleport is admittedly just a better version of NB's shadow image, but is still unique and cool.
-Blood pull being like the DK pull is like saying any pull in the game is a re-skin of it. The nature of this pull is different as it creates an AoE on the ground and the target has to be in it for them to get pulled.

The bat-swarm teleport and the bat swarm AoE are both completely unique though and in the very least, I think we can agree that these two abilities should be mixed into the current rework somehow? I think we can ALSO agree that the Blood Scion ult needs to be made like the NPCs? They get a completely unique thing that is different from the bone goliath ult. They get new blood magic attacks and empowered swipes while in it and aren't forced to wield weapons.

It should be noted this is mainly why I @'d you, because I figured you would provide a different perspective to the thread and I thank you for doing such, even if we disagree about the reworked abilities being in a good position.

dcam86b14_ESO · April 2020

We already know that ZoS puts new npc abilities in game to tease or test out future classes. Wouldn't be surprised if these are intended for a new class.

ShadowHvo · April 2020

No! I like the current state of the player rework instead.

Well, of course the ultimate is completely wrong? I don't intend for this to sound malicious or toxic, but you're asking for the developers to give us a form that is, in TES Lore. Incredibly powerful, literally overpowered on a nigh legendary, mythical level of entry.

The fact that this game is an MMO, wherein balance is key, it is obvious that we won't receive a fully-fledged Vampire Lord. That is why I never wanted it to begin with - because it is an obvious given that they literally are incapable of doing it justice.

I dead-honestly don't really agree with these abilities looking, or feeling cooler. Because I sincerely don't think they do. The animations look weak, and the coloration looks muddied and dull. I think that the toolkit we've received looks better visually - with exception of the Drain Morphs - why the hell it turns nasty yellow / orange is beyond me.

The reason why I say that the toolkit fits a wider aresenal, is because there is, in theory, a little something for everyone:
- Eviscerate = Monstrous Slash, Nimble Rogueish, Monstrous
- Blood Frenzy = Rage Mode - Warrioresque, Monstrous
- Mesmerize = Magey, Civilized
- Drain = Blood Magey,
- Mistform = Magey, Blood Magey depending on Morph.

The passives naturally lend themselves a bit more to Warrioresque with Undeath and Rogueish with Unnatural Movement. - but I'll disregard that for now.

I do agree that it would've been awesome to have a Batswarm, or even more blood-magic centric abilities, yet we've really lost both of that in favor of the massively nerfed Vampire Lord. The so called "Night" and "Blood" magic abilities was always tied to the Vampire Lord Form exclusively, and not something that the vampire cast in their natural form.

The abilities that we received do manage to thematically hit a wider net to the fantasy of the Vampire, since we only have 1 skill-line available. Naturally, the best case solution we could've possibly hoped for, would be to have 3 unique vampire strains or bloodlines available, one for each role:
- Stealth, Rogues, Swiftness and Assassination
- Endurance, Warriors, Toughness and Prowess
- Magic, Mages, Blood, Night, SPELLS.

That would be my ideal dream, if Zenimax called me up one day and would be like "Come in and help us design a vampire experience that can hit every single TES Vampire Fantasy." Then I'll just subtly add sun-damage to my own personal character.

On a second note - imagine if we just had 3 different types of Restoration staves, one of which was Blood and turned it into a mix of damage and healing. That's an old suggestion from way back in the day, wherein a full-fledged blood-magic centric skill-line could be developed.

EDIT: Also, it is much appreciated. I prefer our civil dialogue, even if we don't see eye to eye on what we want with our vampire experience.

Noxavian · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Well, of course the ultimate is completely wrong? I don't intend for this to sound malicious or toxic, but you're asking for the developers to give us a form that is, in TES Lore. Incredibly powerful, literally overpowered on a nigh legendary, mythical level of entry.

The fact that this game is an MMO, wherein balance is key, it is obvious that we won't receive a fully-fledged Vampire Lord. That is why I never wanted it to begin with - because it is an obvious given that they literally are incapable of doing it justice.

I dead-honestly don't really agree with these abilities looking, or feeling cooler. Because I sincerely don't think they do. The animations look weak, and the coloration looks muddied and dull. I think that the toolkit we've received looks better visually - with exception of the Drain Morphs - why the hell it turns nasty yellow / orange is beyond me.

The reason why I say that the toolkit fits a wider aresenal, is because there is, in theory, a little something for everyone:
- Eviscerate = Monstrous Slash, Nimble Rogueish, Monstrous
- Blood Frenzy = Rage Mode - Warrioresque, Monstrous
- Mesmerize = Magey, Civilized
- Drain = Blood Magey,
- Mistform = Magey, Blood Magey depending on Morph.

The passives naturally lend themselves a bit more to Warrioresque with Undeath and Rogueish with Unnatural Movement. - but I'll disregard that for now.

I do agree that it would've been awesome to have a Batswarm, or even more blood-magic centric abilities, yet we've really lost both of that in favor of the massively nerfed Vampire Lord. The so called "Night" and "Blood" magic abilities was always tied to the Vampire Lord Form exclusively, and not something that the vampire cast in their natural form.

The abilities that we received do manage to thematically hit a wider net to the fantasy of the Vampire, since we only have 1 skill-line available. Naturally, the best case solution we could've possibly hoped for, would be to have 3 unique vampire strains or bloodlines available, one for each role:
- Stealth, Rogues, Swiftness and Assassination
- Endurance, Warriors, Toughness and Prowess
- Magic, Mages, Blood, Night, SPELLS.

That would be my ideal dream, if Zenimax called me up one day and would be like "Come in and help us design a vampire experience that can hit every single TES Vampire Fantasy." Then I'll just subtly add sun-damage to my own personal character.

On a second note - imagine if we just had 3 different types of Restoration staves, one of which was Blood and turned it into a mix of damage and healing. That's an old suggestion from way back in the day, wherein a full-fledged blood-magic centric skill-line could be developed.

EDIT: Also, it is much appreciated. I prefer our civil dialogue, even if we don't see eye to eye on what we want with our vampire experience.

I do appreciate you explaining more as to why you think the arsenal is diverse, even if I disagree immensely.

And I can very much agree when it comes to the 3 different strains of vampirism. I think that would be absolutely astounding and the abilities/lore would fit it, too. Everyone would win if that were implemented. And if ZOS called me up and did the same thing as you mentioned, that would be my ideal goal for vampires as well. I would even limit the 'vampire lord' transformation to both the Warrior and Mage skill lines. The warrior would be a brute-tanky transformation (and look way different...Think more like big gargoyle looking creature) and the mage transformation would be a sleek floating vampire-lord looking figure. The stealth line's ultimate would not have a transformation and instead have something that fits the stealth/speed/assassination aspect more. If they had to get a transformation, I would make it a night-creature that can stalk and crawl around and fight invis. Or if we could keep the transformation strictly to the mage skill line, that would be perfect, because as you said vampire lords are mainly about that blood/night magic. But that is a conversation for a different day.

As for your statement about us losing night/blood magic in favor of a massively nerfed vampire lord, I believe there is a solution that would incorporate everything. Why not have the vamp lord transformation give the player access to an ability bar of *basic* skills? Un-morphable skills that just come with the transformation, similar to the Lich ultimate in GW2 if you know what I'm talking about. Basically in this new form you can have 2 bars. 1 bar for the vampire skills from the actual skill line (as you should be able to use those in the form) and the other bar for these 'basic' abilities that cannot be morphed. These basic abilities can take INSPIRATION from what these NPCs have gotten. It would still give the health/stam/magicka steriods though and the swarming scion could stay the same. Perfect Scion would need to be changed though.

Think about it, @ShadowHvo, it wouldn't be busted and it would give the blood scion some much needed uniqueness and it would solve all of this. EDIT: Oh, and just for you I would imagine that these new basic abilities would share the same color theme as the mesmerize morph that everyone likes. So they wouldn't look super dull. (:

An idea for these basic abilities *based off of* what these NPCs have gotten is this:

1. The blood drain the NPCs have, except it affects up to 2 extra targets near the original one you targeted, lifting the initial target off of the ground and simply just draining the life from the other 2. Only CCs the 1 target.
2. The shadow fiend summon the NPCs have. Except instead of an imp, it is a shadow gargoyle. And instead of being a buffer/healer, it actually is an offensive minion that attacks. If you drop super low it sacrifices itself to heal you.
3. The bat swarm teleport can function exactly how it does for NPCs. A short channel then a dash, if you hit a target the dash stops and it damages and knocks them over. If you don't hit a target the bat-swarm teleport has a pretty decent travel distance.
4. An AoE bat swarm that has a short channel time to summon the bats to a ground-targeted area. Functions exactly the same as the NPCs.
5. A huge slow moving blood ball projectile that explodes upon finally reaching its target, it would heal the vampire for a percentage of damage deal.

For heavy/light/block/dodge: Heavy and light attacks would both be claw swipes. Block would be the same, but dodging would have an animation of turning into mist and re-forming.

What do you think? Any changes you'd make? I think this would solve everyone's issue and give the players the proper feeling of being a vampire lord without it being broken. The ultimate would be limited to the basic un-morph-able abilities the NPCs get and the skills in the vampire skill line.

Noxavian · April 2020

Yes! The abilities shown should be mixed in somehow/replace what we presently have.

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

We already know that ZoS puts new npc abilities in game to tease or test out future classes. Wouldn't be surprised if these are intended for a new class.

Or maybe a new bloodline? More vampire options would be extremely sick. They could add in new werewolf forms too.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Hello! Would YOU like to see these normal vampire NPC skills as a part of the vampire player rework?

Hello! Would YOU like to see these normal vampire NPC skills as a part of the vampire player rework? 106 votes