They dont want vampire to be used for its passives like it was before. The point of the changes is to make vampire usable on its own. The new vampire way wont be for everyone to just automatically have it on magicka characters. You would only get it if you wanted to use those skills. I tested it a bit today using my magblade vampire and only 1 non-vampire skill (soul siphon) and had a good time and no resource issues even at stage 4.
It really is a catch 22, if it is good to be a vampire then everyone will want to be a vampire, but if they make it bad to try and niche it, then barely anyone (other than RPers) will want to be a vampire.
I personally would give it a go, but the health drain of blood frenzy is just too high as is the cost increase of non-vampire skills. 10% would be acceptable and still keep some from wanting to be vampires.
Admittedly the high heath drain tied with the lowering of vampire skill cost does actually make sense. Still don’t like that 20% increase though.
darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »They dont want vampire to be used for its passives like it was before. The point of the changes is to make vampire usable on its own. The new vampire way wont be for everyone to just automatically have it on magicka characters. You would only get it if you wanted to use those skills. I tested it a bit today using my magblade vampire and only 1 non-vampire skill (soul siphon) and had a good time and no resource issues even at stage 4.
And what if you are stamina?
darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »They dont want vampire to be used for its passives like it was before. The point of the changes is to make vampire usable on its own. The new vampire way wont be for everyone to just automatically have it on magicka characters. You would only get it if you wanted to use those skills. I tested it a bit today using my magblade vampire and only 1 non-vampire skill (soul siphon) and had a good time and no resource issues even at stage 4.
And what if you are stamina?
Then maybe you shouldn't be a vampire. Just like werewolf doesn't have synergy with a magicka build.
MashmalloMan wrote: »Jesus, people love to cry about everything. You want to be a true vampire than stage 4 is for you. The -40% cost decrease is insanely strong for people willing to actually use vampire abilities. You also have the option to disable the cons for 20s on your ultimate.
I swear, people just want everything handed to them. It's bad enough on live that everyone in pve goes to at least stage 2 to get mag/stam regen, not to mention the drawbacks have no effect because -33% damage taken trumps any extra fire damage taken and hp regen is pretty much useless.
Same goes for pvp. Werewolf and Vampire should be a choice, not a necessity.
They fixed this problem. No longer will 80% of the eso population be vampires for passives alone and I'm fine with that.
darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »They dont want vampire to be used for its passives like it was before. The point of the changes is to make vampire usable on its own. The new vampire way wont be for everyone to just automatically have it on magicka characters. You would only get it if you wanted to use those skills. I tested it a bit today using my magblade vampire and only 1 non-vampire skill (soul siphon) and had a good time and no resource issues even at stage 4.
And what if you are stamina?
Then maybe you shouldn't be a vampire. Just like werewolf doesn't have synergy with a magicka build.
MashmalloMan wrote: »Jesus, people love to cry about everything. You want to be a true vampire than stage 4 is for you. The -40% cost decrease is insanely strong for people willing to actually use vampire abilities. You also have the option to disable the cons for 20s on your ultimate.
I swear, people just want everything handed to them. It's bad enough on live that everyone in pve goes to at least stage 2 to get mag/stam regen, not to mention the drawbacks have no effect because -33% damage taken trumps any extra fire damage taken and hp regen is pretty much useless.
Same goes for pvp. Werewolf and Vampire should be a choice, not a necessity.
The con of the extra ability cost will not matter to a stage 4 vampire that gets insanely cheap abilities.
They fixed this problem. No longer will 80% of the eso population be vampires for passives alone and I'm fine with that.
MashmalloMan wrote: »Jesus, people love to cry about everything. You want to be a true vampire than stage 4 is for you. The -40% cost decrease is insanely strong for people willing to actually use vampire abilities. You also have the option to disable the cons for 20s on your ultimate.
I swear, people just want everything handed to them. It's bad enough on live that everyone in pve goes to at least stage 2 to get mag/stam regen, not to mention the drawbacks have no effect because -33% damage taken trumps any extra fire damage taken and hp regen is pretty much useless.
Same goes for pvp. Werewolf and Vampire should be a choice, not a necessity.
The con of the extra ability cost will not matter to a stage 4 vampire that gets insanely cheap abilities.
They fixed this problem. No longer will 80% of the eso population be vampires for passives alone and I'm fine with that.
darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: »Jesus, people love to cry about everything. You want to be a true vampire than stage 4 is for you. The -40% cost decrease is insanely strong for people willing to actually use vampire abilities. You also have the option to disable the cons for 20s on your ultimate.
I swear, people just want everything handed to them. It's bad enough on live that everyone in pve goes to at least stage 2 to get mag/stam regen, not to mention the drawbacks have no effect because -33% damage taken trumps any extra fire damage taken and hp regen is pretty much useless.
Same goes for pvp. Werewolf and Vampire should be a choice, not a necessity.
The con of the extra ability cost will not matter to a stage 4 vampire that gets insanely cheap abilities.
They fixed this problem. No longer will 80% of the eso population be vampires for passives alone and I'm fine with that.
And again, completely ignoring that stamina players get completely screwed and have no choice in the matter.
Dagoth_Rac wrote: »I don't think you do have to use all vampire skills to make Stage 4 viable. If you used half vampire skills and half non-vamp skills, you would have half of your skills with a 40% cost reduction and half with a 20% cost increase. Which skills you use and their base costs will vary, but you likely come out ahead in resource sustain. Even 40% vamp skills and 60% non-vamp skills is probably about break even. Ultimates and dodge/block/etc., could be a problem. I think more testing and theory-crafting needs to be done before writing off Stage 4 as not competitive.
brandonv516 wrote: »
So where are the Magicka Werewolves?
Vampire has always catered more to Magicka so I'm not sure why people were expecting it to be different going forward.
brandonv516 wrote: »
So where are the Magicka Werewolves?
Vampire has always catered more to Magicka so I'm not sure why people were expecting it to be different going forward.
Magicka werewolves suck at damage but they can take advantage of that heal very well.... and that's about it really.
As for vampires? Well there are a LOT of sources of vampires gaining physical strength and Stamina. In Oblivion they gained strength to the following skills.
Source:
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Vampirism
- Acrobatics
- Athletics
- Destruction
- Hand to Hand
- Illusion
- Mysticism
- Sneak
When it comes to stats they gained power to following.
- Strength
- Willpower
- Speed
This is not even taking into the effect the other powers they got like the resistance to normal weapons which went as high as 20%. Now this exists in the form of the undeath passive in ESO.
In Skyrim vampires took on a more magical approach but they still gained bonuses to sneaking. This helped sneaky builds utilize them in battle and of course they gained frost resistance. At stage 4 the frost resistance was at 100% which greatly helped warriors, mages, and rogues going into certain fights.
Source:
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Vampirism
Morrowind is where we really delve into warrior vampires in the form of the Quarra and Berne Clans. All vampires received the following buffs.
Source:
https://pt.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Vampires
- +20 to Strength, Willpower, and Speed.
- +30 to Sneak, Athletics, Acrobatics, Hand-to-hand, Unarmored, Mysticism, Illusion, and Destruction.
- Immune to Paralysis and Common Disease.
- +50% Resistance to normal weapons.
Berne are the sneaky clan and get these the following buffs: +20 to Agility, additional +20 to Sneak, Unarmored, and Hand-to-hand.
Quarra are the warriors and they get the following buffs: +20 to Strength, +20 Blunt Weapon, Hand-to-hand, and Heavy Armor.
I could go into the 7 vampire clans of the Illiac Bay but this post is getting a bit long. Vampires in The Elder Scrolls have always had a history of improving magical and physical attributes of a person at the cost of flame/sun damage, health recovery, and other healing detriments.
brandonv516 wrote: »
The heal costs Magicka but scales off Max Health.
So the only thing Magicka users can benefit from is the ability to spam a self heal while running around waiting to die.
Dagoth_Rac wrote: »Which skills you use and their base costs will vary, but you likely come out ahead in resource sustain. Even 40% vamp skills and 60% non-vamp skills is probably about break even.
darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »Dagoth_Rac wrote: »I don't think you do have to use all vampire skills to make Stage 4 viable. If you used half vampire skills and half non-vamp skills, you would have half of your skills with a 40% cost reduction and half with a 20% cost increase. Which skills you use and their base costs will vary, but you likely come out ahead in resource sustain. Even 40% vamp skills and 60% non-vamp skills is probably about break even. Ultimates and dodge/block/etc., could be a problem. I think more testing and theory-crafting needs to be done before writing off Stage 4 as not competitive.
The vampire skills are all magika. Stamina players are completely boned.
darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »Dagoth_Rac wrote: »I don't think you do have to use all vampire skills to make Stage 4 viable. If you used half vampire skills and half non-vamp skills, you would have half of your skills with a 40% cost reduction and half with a 20% cost increase. Which skills you use and their base costs will vary, but you likely come out ahead in resource sustain. Even 40% vamp skills and 60% non-vamp skills is probably about break even. Ultimates and dodge/block/etc., could be a problem. I think more testing and theory-crafting needs to be done before writing off Stage 4 as not competitive.
The vampire skills are all magika. Stamina players are completely boned.
Out of 5 abilities, only 2 have a Magicka focus. Mist, Frenzy and Mesmerize are just as effective on Stamina. All passives are equally good on Magicka and Stamina. In fact, Unnatural Movement is better on Stamina thanks to the Medium Armour Sprint passive.
darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »I've been playing that kind of vampire since daggerfall in the 90's. If zos is saying I can't do that anymore I should just uninstall the game and go back to playing skyrim.
darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »
Mist and mes are both magika...[snip]