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The increase cost of non vampire abilities is too extreme
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Austinseph1✭✭✭✭✭Honestly with the cost increase it's a moderately funny RP skill line, it has possibly strong applications with downsides far greater. I thought about trying to make a fun build out of it but it is far to much effort for the RP than what the return would be.. Want to be a cool vampire Scion? Cool go ahead, you won't be competitive with it but you sure can run away 😂2 -
ne.ga.kurai_ESO✭✭✭But yeah the cost increases are so extreme they will probably doom the entire skill line to obscurity. Way to roll out the signature feature of a new chapter.
Yes. This is such a huge QoL nerf for me on my noCP solo stamNB. I refuse to PvP without Dark Stalker. I also refuse to play with an additional 5% cost increase on top of NMA, let alone 20%. This game is basically unplayable without the crafting bag, so after four years I am done.
Dark Stalker needs to be moved to Legerdemain and replaced with something that is useful for everyone.
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Saubon✭✭✭You do not have to be at stage 3 or 4. You can use all active vampire abilities at stage 1.
3 and 4 are intended for players who use active abilities a lot. Their overall magicka drain should not increase as they would benefit substantially from the -30%/-40% vampire cost reduction.
So we can use massive bonus from Blood Frenzy and its morphs just for 5% cost increase?
Thats not op at all, can't wait to see this in pvp 0 -
Opalblade✭✭✭Yeah I'm probably going to cure all but one of my vamps if it goes live like this. No point in having multiple of them if they are all forced to use the same skills. Kinda bums me out though because being a vamp is a big part of some of their backstories and appearances. Now I'll need to completely re-do them.Edited by Opalblade on April 21, 2020 5:19AM4 -
UntilValhalla13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There basically won't be a reason to be a vampire in pve when these changes go live. They're only used for the regen passive, honestly. They'll probably just be a pvp thing going forward.1 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭UntilValhalla13 wrote: »There basically won't be a reason to be a vampire in pve when these changes go live. They're only used for the regen passive, honestly. They'll probably just be a pvp thing going forward.
Yep, same as ww currently. You see some noob as ww occasionally in dungeons doing his 20% of dps or trying to tank lmao.
Too bad pve endgame community got shafted again.1 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭llBlack_Heartll wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Sit in stage 1 without undeath, what's the problem. It is long overdue to make vampire to have downsides other then meeting with magDK (and few fire bosses in PVE).
It already had down sides.
It needed more. People already just flat out ignore the ones already present.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!2 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Austinseph1 wrote: »Honestly with the cost increase it's a moderately funny RP skill line, it has possibly strong applications with downsides far greater. I thought about trying to make a fun build out of it but it is far to much effort for the RP than what the return would be.. Want to be a cool vampire Scion? Cool go ahead, you won't be competitive with it but you sure can run away 😂
Welcome to magblades world.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.0 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheSeraphim wrote: »Unless the Vampire skill damage numbers are tuned to comical levels to justify having 90% of your build be Vampire, stage 4 will be unusable for anything resembling "endgame" content. Congratulations you went from everyone going stage 4 vampire to nobody but overland casual players going stage 4.
Well I mean the Vampire Stage 4 would be good for Farming resources if you want to avoid enemies, I guess it is good for that at least.1 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah you could use glpyhs to negate some of the cost, but then you lose damage also or whatever other glyph you could of put there instead of being forced to use reduction glpyhs.
Excactly.
Being a vamp = dps loss now
It depends on what skills you use for the majority of the fight. For example, if you run Eviscerate as spammable on a magsorc your sustain will probably improve a lot. You can even stay in stage 1 and use Blood Frenzy if you're comfortable enough with the health drain.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer0 -
Mortiis13✭✭✭✭2/4/6/10 cost increase, 5/10/15/20 cost decrease on vamp skills (or 4/8/12/20)
That would be good numbers u can deal with it. U still have high fire dmg and 0 health reg at stage 42 -
Ruder✭✭✭✭I agree, cost increase should be no more than 10% on stage 4..
@olsborg the Vampire Lord set is increasing the cost of your non vamp abilities by additional cost, and the reduce of your vamp abilities is neglidgable because of diminishing returns on reduce cost, it is pure trash this set...4 -
darthgummibear_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭You do not have to be at stage 3 or 4. You can use all active vampire abilities at stage 1.
3 and 4 are intended for players who use active abilities a lot. Their overall magicka drain should not increase as they would benefit substantially from the -30%/-40% vampire cost reduction.
Yeah, we'll just completely ignore both undeath and unnatural movement, and how the entire tree completely screws over stamina characters. I couldn't use any of those abilities if I wanted to aside from frenzy.1 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well the Vampire Lord Set ironically that name. Is supposed to help reduce the weakness by a lot.
So you could run this if you had too for a vampire character.
Edit: Wait nevermind what?
Increased cost I thought it was decreased my bad.
>.<
Edited by Thevampirenight on April 21, 2020 8:12AMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.2 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thevampirenight wrote: »Well the Vampire Lord Set ironically that name. Is supposed to help reduce the weakness by a lot.
So you could run this if you had too for a vampire character.
Edit: Wait nevermind what?
Increased cost I thought it was decreased my bad.
>.<
Yea I tought the same, my bad.
PC EU
PvP only1 -
Fruity_Ninja✭✭✭✭Not a fan of the increased cost. I can understand some heavier penalties for Stage 3-4, as you open up all the passives and maximise the new Vampires power.
But Stage 1, you aren't getting a lot of benefit besides from quicker sneak speed. And maybe throwing in 1-2 vamp skills over your bars to create some diversity (e.g. mist form for mobility on a magicka build). But the Stage 1 cost increase to normal abilities makes even that something that isn't worth doing in most cases.
I understand what they are trying to do, but not a fan of how they've executed it in this iteration.
Out of my 12 characters, I have 8 vampires. My 2x stam characters will be cured, and at least 4x of my magicka characters will be cured. There is 0 benefit to me being a stage anything vampire on all those characters- as the lower stages have too many drawbacks, and the upper stages require a full vampire spec (meaning I'd have 8 characters with the exact same skill bars and setup basically).
If anything good comes out of it, I think there's some synergy with my nightblades, giving me more gank potential!
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seems like an interesting way to represent the Skyrim Vampire Lord playstyle, where transforming locked you into the Vampire Lord form and abilities.
I'm not sure it works in ESO except for RP, because the meta is very black and white. If its meta, everyone will use it. If it's not, anyone who's chasing the meta will complain that it's terrible.1 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
✭I won't even bother going vampire if this goes live. If you have to run full cost reduction just to bring your costs back down you lose a ton of damage. Same thing goes for the vampire lord set. The vamp skills would have to be doing 40 to 50% more damage than other abilities to warrant the cost increase.
Vampire is basically another meme for overland players.8 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Haven't tried it myself, but I'm assuming you can't sprint while in Mist Form (since it's considered a channel)? If that's the case, it's going to remain vastly inferior to Race Against Time in almost all situations.Fruity_Ninja wrote: »Not a fan of the increased cost. I can understand some heavier penalties for Stage 3-4, as you open up all the passives and maximise the new Vampires power.
But Stage 1, you aren't getting a lot of benefit besides from quicker sneak speed. And maybe throwing in 1-2 vamp skills over your bars to create some diversity (e.g. mist form for mobility on a magicka build). But the Stage 1 cost increase to normal abilities makes even that something that isn't worth doing in most cases.
The only way I see stage 1 being worth it, is if you're a Magicka Necromancer or Warden and the Vampire CC isn't very expensive. And the only way I see stage 4 being worth it, is if you can get the spammable up to some pretty ridiculous damage numbers with certain builds.0 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It may balance out though... anyone on the PTS able to tell us how much damage these abilities do?
Especially the toggle? You would want to build to primarily be using vampire skills, but have enough sustain for buffs, burst heal etc... I think it could potentially be really strong dependant on the numbers.
I have dropped vamp on 2 of my characters, because of this change.
Like many I was utilising it mainly for 10% more recovery.
Still not sure what I will do with my magdk, I love mist form... but can't really afford the 5% increase on skills as I tried NMA when it released. I could sacrifice a bit of damage as players will be less tanky in this patch. Anyone else wanting to keep some vamp?
I have to say though I really like this change. Vampire is being made a choice rather than a convenience.
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Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭relentless_turnip wrote: »It may balance out though... anyone on the PTS able to tell us how much damage these abilities do?
Especially the toggle? You would want to build to primarily be using vampire skills, but have enough sustain for buffs, burst heal etc... I think it could potentially be really strong dependant on the numbers.
I have dropped vamp on 2 of my characters, because of this change.
Like many I was utilising it mainly for 10% more recovery.
Still not sure what I will do with my magdk, I love mist form... but can't really afford the 5% increase on skills as I tried NMA when it released. I could sacrifice a bit of damage as players will be less tanky in this patch. Anyone else wanting to keep some vamp?
I have to say though I really like this change. Vampire is being made a choice rather than a convenience.
The toggle increase spell damage by 630 ans cost, at STAGE 4 1100 health/s.
A morph increase the SD and cost by 10%/s until it double the intitial one.
Other moprh heal you for 30% of health consumed over the toggle duration when you toggle it off. Note that when you have less HP left than the cost, the skill automatically toggle off (it cannot kill you). It's interesting for the burst heal morph, since it can make u full HP when you was going to die. (if you had it toggle on for a very very long time in PvP)0 -
Shadowasrial✭✭✭✭✭
✭As you can see @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_AntonioP @ZOS_JessicaFolsom there is virtually nobody happy with these changes. Further more just day one of patch notes, the first course of action many of the players have stated they will be doing or have to do is curing their vampirism because it makes their desired power fantasy unplayable. I hope that you all take this into consideration for the next weeks pts cycle.
Also because I know you all love player input I would suggest then following changes. Remove the increased cost to non vampire abilities. It honestly makes no sense from a lore standpoint. Your abilities are basically an extension of who your character is. It’s what makes our toons different from the npcs. It wouldn’t make sense for such a powerful supernatural creature to have stronger vampiric abilities at the cost of it being more difficult to swing a sword. If you can punch a hole through the wall with your bare hand why wouldn’t you be able to knock down a wall with a giant hammer as well.
So please remove the increased cost. The loss of our passive stam and magic recovery in addition to our health recovery being -100% and the additional 20 % fire damage was already a sufficient downside to the class. Many people chose vampire for years because it gave them great passives sure but it was the skills that were lacking that made virtually nobody run the skills. You have fixed that. The reason I don’t run werewolf is because I don’t want to run around looking like a dog in pvp I’m a nightblade assassin. Hulking out doesn’t match the power fantasy so I went vampire. The lord of the night. Now I will have to cure this because In order to mitigate the increased cost is going to have to cause me to either sacrifice an entire 5 piece armor set or more damage than I would gain from vampire basicly causing myself to cripple myself further by using it.
If you can’t remove the cost increase then at least decrease it. Please make it no more than 10% at stage 4 someone proposed 2/4/8/10 for the stages those would be acceptable. Or because you really don’t want it to destroy your class identity as well make it apply to only non vamp and non class abilities. If the increase cost applied to weapon skill lines and fighters guild mages guild etc but your class skills were unaffected I think that would be a acceptable compromise. Thank you all for all you do and I hope to see some improvements in vampire that we all can love and enjoy6 -
Marcus_Thracius✭✭✭✭Only thing vamp is good now is for ganking - nothing more - tested with simmering frenzy at 10 stacks just for the lols . You cant sustain on a stamblade with it for more than 10 secs - on a mag char you can tho
Snipes hit full inpen tanky toons for 11k on avrg - non crits lol
And Onslaughs hits them for 23k on avrg - non crits - with that ring that gives 25% dmg is a bit tricky since you give up the balorgh buff but still it hits for 24k on avrg .
GJ Zo£
Was really looking for the patch but seems I overhyped it - damn its a let down
So much potential , if this goes live ...god .....2 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
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Completely agree with you I was about to do the same post glad I noticed yours.Shadowasrial wrote: »At stage 3 and 4 the 15-20 % increase to non vampire abilities is way too extreme. Let’s forget about the fact that a great deal of the population runs new moon which also increases by 5% making at stage 3 your at 20% and stage 4 your at 25%. Vampires on live servers have increased stam and mag recovery this has been stripped by the new vampire and now you want to increase the cost of non vampire abilities? The new vampire abilities aren’t that powerful that you are able to run only vampire abilities for pvp. As a stamblade my cloak already costs 3900 mag and if this new change goes live my cloak will cost 4600. That makes it so you can only use cloak basicly twice before your out of stamina. Can we please remove the cost of non vamp abilities if you are going to further limit our sustain?
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Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
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You have a point but to those who haven’t seen how good the tri cost reduction is we are right to be worried 20% cost increase is a lot and I love being a vampire.Ever wonder why they just introduced tri-cost reduction glyphs? If you look at how the math works with cost reductions you wont be disappointed.
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Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am happy with those changes, don't lie. I think it's ok and just because everyone wants to have free cloak, it doesn't mean they should get it.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.0
