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Why the huge bash nerf?
Jaimeh
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I don’t understand the nerf to bash damage by a whooping 80%. Yes, a build designed to capitalize on bashing should be more effective, like the dev notes explain, but (talking from a PvE rotation perspective) it’s not like bash-weaving was something easy to do (not to mention the fact that DDs who bash-weaved had to have a build/group that helped sustain it), it wasn’t applicable to all specs and fights, and with a lot of stamina meta builds including rapid strikes in their rotation, it wasn’t always possible even for stamina specs. They’re essentially telling us they want to narrow the so-called skill gap by making the combat less challenging. And to add insult to injury they nerfed Maarselok as well. I’m not even good at bash weaving but I liked having something challenging to try and improve in, and knowing it could give me an edge if I managed it. I really hope they reconsider and adjust that percentage; bash-weaving in a DPS rotation is a clever but very difficult mechanic, it should be rewarded.
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zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agree. While I despite bash weaving, 80% nerf is an overkill. Bashing dealt minor dmg as it was (don't think I saw the value ever reach 3%, excluding their amazing la changes pts), so 80% nerf puts it under 0.5% dmg addition by doing it. I mean. I mean. Seriously? Like... Seriously? 400 dps by bash weaving. Seriously. That's.... Just sad. Sad I tell you.
They really need to learn to tweak instead of butcher.5 -
OG_Kaveman✭✭✭✭✭bash-weaving in a DPS rotation is a clever but very difficult mechanic, it should be rewarded.
hard disagree. it is a vacuous mechanic that goes against the reason bash is in the game.32 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agree. While I despite bash weaving, 80% nerf is an overkill. Bashing dealt minor dmg as it was (don't think I saw the value ever reach 3%, excluding their amazing la changes pts), so 80% nerf puts it under 0.5% dmg addition by doing it. I mean. I mean. Seriously? Like... Seriously? 400 dps by bash weaving. Seriously. That's.... Just sad. Sad I tell you.
They really need to learn to tweak instead of butcher.
Exactly, it's not like something people took tremendous advantage of (at least in PvE, I'm not savvy on the PvP side of things) because a) it was very tricky and b) it didn't have game-breaking returns. Just something that could give a small edge to whoever managed it and bothered enough to learn to do it.1 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yay, making overland tanks even more painful to play.
All you who think this is great, consider how wonderful it is next time you're wondering why your dungeon q won't pop.4 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »bash-weaving in a DPS rotation is a clever but very difficult mechanic, it should be rewarded.
hard disagree. it is a vacuous mechanic that goes against the reason bash is in the game.
It doesn't go against the reason at all, bashing can interrupt and do damage, you're just applying it to your rotation to make the most of the latter.0 -
OG_Kaveman✭✭✭✭✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »bash-weaving in a DPS rotation is a clever but very difficult mechanic, it should be rewarded.
hard disagree. it is a vacuous mechanic that goes against the reason bash is in the game.
It doesn't go against the reason at all, bashing can interrupt and do damage, you're just applying it to your rotation to make the most of the latter.
not acording to ZoS-The above changes were made to reduce the impact of bash weaving in a normal damage dealer's rotation, which was creating a huge rift between those who did and did not engage with the mechanic. Bashing is meant to primarily focus on interrupting of mechanics, as well as to help increase or control proc conditions of item sets, passives, or other events, rather than dealing damage. We've decided to retain the ability to deal damage with bashes, however, and even increased their overall effectiveness if specifically built for. The flat damage modifiers will result in a slight decrease for standard bash builds, but a more moderate increase for super specialized bash builds such as Pummeling Goliath builds that go all in on enchantments, passives, and item sets (while not going too far like the builds were at its launch!)Edited by OG_Kaveman on April 20, 2020 9:19PM7 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »bash-weaving in a DPS rotation is a clever but very difficult mechanic, it should be rewarded.
hard disagree. it is a vacuous mechanic that goes against the reason bash is in the game.
It doesn't go against the reason at all, bashing can interrupt and do damage, you're just applying it to your rotation to make the most of the latter.
not acording to ZoS-The above changes were made to reduce the impact of bash weaving in a normal damage dealer's rotation, which was creating a huge rift between those who did and did not engage with the mechanic. Bashing is meant to primarily focus on interrupting of mechanics, as well as to help increase or control proc conditions of item sets, passives, or other events, rather than dealing damage. We've decided to retain the ability to deal damage with bashes, however, and even increased their overall effectiveness if specifically built for. The flat damage modifiers will result in a slight decrease for standard bash builds, but a more moderate increase for super specialized bash builds such as Pummeling Goliath builds that go all in on enchantments, passives, and item sets (while not going too far like the builds were at its launch!)
If you want to nit-pick, then yes, primary focus is interrupting, and damage is only second to that. But you can't tell me this is the actual reason, when bash damage has been in the game for so long, and they only decided to revisit it when bash-weaving became a feature, and concerns about skill gap were increasing. Regardless of whether a feature is the main intent or not, having a mechanic that requires skill to give a (small, in this case) reward, is always a good and healthy thing for the game and its playerbase.5 -
OG_Kaveman✭✭✭✭✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »bash-weaving in a DPS rotation is a clever but very difficult mechanic, it should be rewarded.
hard disagree. it is a vacuous mechanic that goes against the reason bash is in the game.
It doesn't go against the reason at all, bashing can interrupt and do damage, you're just applying it to your rotation to make the most of the latter.
not acording to ZoS-The above changes were made to reduce the impact of bash weaving in a normal damage dealer's rotation, which was creating a huge rift between those who did and did not engage with the mechanic. Bashing is meant to primarily focus on interrupting of mechanics, as well as to help increase or control proc conditions of item sets, passives, or other events, rather than dealing damage. We've decided to retain the ability to deal damage with bashes, however, and even increased their overall effectiveness if specifically built for. The flat damage modifiers will result in a slight decrease for standard bash builds, but a more moderate increase for super specialized bash builds such as Pummeling Goliath builds that go all in on enchantments, passives, and item sets (while not going too far like the builds were at its launch!)
If you want to nit-pick, then yes, primary focus is interrupting, and damage is only second to that. But you can't tell me this is the actual reason, when bash damage has been in the game for so long, and they only decided to revisit it when bash-weaving became a feature, and concerns about skill gap were increasing. Regardless of whether a feature is the main intent or not, having a mechanic that requires skill to give a (small, in this case) reward, is always a good and healthy thing for the game and its playerbase.
not a feature, a bug.2 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »bash-weaving in a DPS rotation is a clever but very difficult mechanic, it should be rewarded.
hard disagree. it is a vacuous mechanic that goes against the reason bash is in the game.
It doesn't go against the reason at all, bashing can interrupt and do damage, you're just applying it to your rotation to make the most of the latter.
not acording to ZoS-The above changes were made to reduce the impact of bash weaving in a normal damage dealer's rotation, which was creating a huge rift between those who did and did not engage with the mechanic. Bashing is meant to primarily focus on interrupting of mechanics, as well as to help increase or control proc conditions of item sets, passives, or other events, rather than dealing damage. We've decided to retain the ability to deal damage with bashes, however, and even increased their overall effectiveness if specifically built for. The flat damage modifiers will result in a slight decrease for standard bash builds, but a more moderate increase for super specialized bash builds such as Pummeling Goliath builds that go all in on enchantments, passives, and item sets (while not going too far like the builds were at its launch!)
If you want to nit-pick, then yes, primary focus is interrupting, and damage is only second to that. But you can't tell me this is the actual reason, when bash damage has been in the game for so long, and they only decided to revisit it when bash-weaving became a feature, and concerns about skill gap were increasing. Regardless of whether a feature is the main intent or not, having a mechanic that requires skill to give a (small, in this case) reward, is always a good and healthy thing for the game and its playerbase.
not a feature, a bug.
It is most certainly not a bug. Just a clever DD player thinking about how to improve their rotation, and then coming up with bash-weaving, within the allowable parameters of the combat in this game. If you're happy about the nerf, this is good news for you, but don't try to diminish something, simply because you don't like it.5 -
Matchimus✭✭✭✭✭Sorry everyone. My fault. New to tanking and haven't been bash/weaving (have they been watching me?).0
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Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
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When the LA/HA changes were proposed, the part of the community responded with the threat to use bash-weaving in addition to LA-weaving. A number of topics and posts were created with the "we don't want to bash-weave" plea. It was easy to predict the result.I don’t understand the nerf to bash damage by a whooping 80%.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.1 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Weaving is a crutch as is. Forced in game when the same developers who declared is as a bug, could not fix it, so they declared it a feature.
Bash weaving is an additional bad mechanic added on top of what used to be a bug.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO9 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
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When the LA/HA changes were proposed, the part of the community responded with the threat to use bash-weaving in addition to LA-weaving. A number of topics and posts were created with the "we don't want to bash-weave" plea. It was easy to predict the result.I don’t understand the nerf to bash damage by a whooping 80%.
Yes, although the LA/HA changes didn't eventually go through. They simply want to discourage people from using this, but since it didn't confer such a game-breaking advantage, I don't understand why they didn't leave it as something that if people bothered to learn it, they could get a small return from it. I think it's making playing less diverse and less interesting.0 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bashing is great to cancel animations it seems the byproduct of damage is higher than the devs probably want to see in the game. It’s probably been on the radar for a while and they would certainly have data to back up just how much damage people are doing by bash weaving.
Now it’s not necessarily an easy mechanic to get down but if you can get it down, particular if you figure out how to work it into HA you can deal a ton of damage and interrupt almost at will. Timing is harder to do HA>skill>bash but you can do it without taking your finger off the trigger on Xbox one. Not all skills interrupt the same with bash though so there is a learning process to the timing.
Still what’s a few DPS lost? One more time half way through a rotation?0 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm actually impressed that bash still does any damage at all. It's meant to be an interrupt. If it does zero damage, it still accomplishes that goal.
If ZOS wants to keep bash weaving from being extremely important for high dps rotations, then it's probably a good move to drastically reduce the damage.6 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are also Glyphs of Bash Damage remaining in the game which seems quite at odds with the "Bash was never meant to do damage" line they are giving.
They should probably simply remove these glyphs altogether and re-purpose them into a glyph with that betters fits into the mechanics of the game.1 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »There are also Glyphs of Bash Damage remaining in the game which seems quite at odds with the "Bash was never meant to do damage" line they are giving.
They should probably simply remove these glyphs altogether and re-purpose them into a glyph with that betters fits into the mechanics of the game.
The bash glyphs are fine because the come with an opportunity cost. You give up a glyph to use the bash glyph. Essentially giving up damage in one area to specialize it in bash damage. This lines up with their vision that if you specialize in bashing, you can still do well, but simply adding bash to your standard rotation isn't something they want to push to a large extent. You give up nothing by bash cancelling during a dps rotation (other than stamina) and if you can sustain it, there is no reason not to do it.5 -
Scarkii✭✭✭honestly bash weaving shouldve never existed, its used to interrupt not to parse with and most people struggled with it so ofc zos is gonna nerf it to reduce the skill cap"Even the slightest amount of courage can change the tides of War"
Former DK main
Characters - Templar - Sharaji EP/ DK - S'avira EP9 -
Rake✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭80% nerf now, then next patch 60% buff.
We saw "meaningful" changes such as this one countless times now.1 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »There are also Glyphs of Bash Damage remaining in the game which seems quite at odds with the "Bash was never meant to do damage" line they are giving.
They should probably simply remove these glyphs altogether and re-purpose them into a glyph with that betters fits into the mechanics of the game.
Should probably remove most of the glyphs entirely, how many actually get used in the game to begin with? RPGs are chock full of useless junk and the bash damage glyphs are just another item that belongs on the heap.3 -
Hanokihs✭✭✭✭✭When they proposed changes to Light/Heavy Attacks, half the feedback comments were complaints about how bash weaving would be the new meta. Whether they knew about it before then or not, it's now basically received their full attention - which means a nerf."I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum."I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.6 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭honestly bash weaving shouldve never existed, its used to interrupt not to parse with and most people struggled with it so ofc zos is gonna nerf it to reduce the skill cap
Indeed.
That's the main reason why they changed it.Edited by Universe on April 21, 2020 3:36AMSome videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince2 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yay, making overland tanks even more painful to play.
All you who think this is great, consider how wonderful it is next time you're wondering why your dungeon q won't pop.
That is better solved with ZOS giving us proper loadouts combined with attribute/cp profiles. Since they are looking into at least skill loadouts, if they are sensible it'll be combined. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6709454/#Comment_67094540
