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I want an option to draw other PCs with lore appropriate outfits.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
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LOL. The humor here is strong because it is undeniable that Zos owns the game, the IP and as such the lore.1 -
Xologamer✭✭✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »ImmortalCX wrote: »If you need to force other people to see your "artistic" choices, that is a problem.
There's a demographic that is happy to sneakily make people see what they want. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/497823/libcustomtitles-lua-before-you-saw-this-poll
one of the best addons
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ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
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LOL. The humor here is strong because it is undeniable that Zos owns the game, the IP and as such the lore.
You would think this is obvious but i gave up. Some people just deserve to be left in their bubble, when they try so so hard to stay in.
And don't call it entitlement, btw. Hypothetically, if you did, the mods would delete it. So don't say that this "no" person is being entitled like crazy. They are not! They are... Not.2 -
Neoealth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭An Orc wearing a wedding dress is not really lore breaking. No where in the lore does it say Orcs couldn't possibly wear a wedding dress. OP you need to lighten up, variety is the spice of life!
Besides, maybe that Orc is a devote follower of uncle Sheo.3 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The idea of the thread is based on a false assumption. Since Zos owns the lore and determines what that lore is what you see characters wearing and riding is not lore breaking. That is a fact regardless of it being something you clearly disagree with.
Do you know of any records in Morrowind explaining why the vast number of atronach (and other) mounts either appeared, or disappeared entirely in the 741 years between the start of ESO and the beginning of TES 3?1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What's truly amusing is that those of you who want this option really expect ZOS to effectively admit "X thing is not lore friendly."
Yeah right! They own the lore, not you.
Gripe all you want about my non-Dunmer wearing Militant Ordinator armor all you want - she can still do it without the Ordinators trying to kill her on sight!
Oh, wait, you don't care as long as I don't dye the armor bright green or something? Hmmm. Methinks its less about lore than it is your nostalgia for Skyrim's relatively muted color palette.3 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »Hmmm. Methinks its less about lore than it is your nostalgia for Skyrim's relatively muted color palette.
How about nostalgia for ESO, before it turned into a circus ....Edited by Muizer on April 17, 2020 9:38AMPlease stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!3 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »What's truly amusing is that those of you who want this option really expect ZOS to effectively admit "X thing is not lore friendly."
Yeah right! They own the lore, not you.
Gripe all you want about my non-Dunmer wearing Militant Ordinator armor all you want - she can still do it without the Ordinators trying to kill her on sight!
Oh, wait, you don't care as long as I don't dye the armor bright green or something? Hmmm. Methinks its less about lore than it is your nostalgia for Skyrim's relatively muted color palette.
You're being nice here. Skyrim colors were boring! As much as I suspected the potato looks from Oblivion, the colors there were a lot more popped, and ESO goes that direction, with the realism Skyrim had.
But yeah... Yet again, I agree with you.2 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Classic case of denial methinks.
LOL. The humor here is strong because it is undeniable that Zos owns the game, the IP and as such the lore.
Because as it has been rightfully said, the lore is whatever the powers that be (in ownership of the intelectual property and copyrights) decide it shall be.
Yes, things get retconned sometimes when someone has a better idea, or adjusts the existing setting to their new product, old lore can get overthrown and expanded, all that is the right and priviledge of the owners of the IP.
Yes, it can be painful sometimes when some bit of lore you liked and/or got used to suddenly is no longer valid (I -still- say Han Shot First!
). But its better to accept that things change then to just play "three monkeys" (see no change, hear no change, deny all change) and deny that simple fact of who owns the IP, and thus has the power over the lore.
Yeah, riiiight.VaranisArano wrote: »Oh, wait, you don't care as long as I don't dye the armor bright green or something?
Because... why exactly should green armor be bad? Or lore-breaking??? (Doubly so for a TES game... can we say "glass armor" from TES-III:Morrowind?
)
Some people act like it was NOT common in medieval-ish times for knights to wear the colors of their clan / ruler / land, etc. Just look at what knights or samurai did sometimes to their armor to make darn sure everyone knew exactly who they are dealing with!
BtW... the "Green Knight" is a proment figure in arthurian legends, which are mor or less the origin of the very ideal of the "knight" archetype for fantasy roleplaying. Just sayin. 2 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The idea of the thread is based on a false assumption. Since Zos owns the lore and determines what that lore is what you see characters wearing and riding is not lore breaking. That is a fact regardless of it being something you clearly disagree with.
Do you know of any records in Morrowind explaining why the vast number of atronach (and other) mounts either appeared, or disappeared entirely in the 741 years between the start of ESO and the beginning of TES 3?
You don't need any written explanation when you can just look how magic and wonders declined since morrowind to bland and gray skyrim, their design choices pretty nice covered eso cash shop. Also if you'll read up some vivec sermons or other similar books you probably would imagine that older times were way more magical and not as grounded as what we had in sp titles.0 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ImmortalCX wrote: »One of the things I hate about eso is that we're forced to view other players with their goofy, gaudy, unrealistic costumes.
I know this is something people pay money to do,, customize their character, but does it really matter if not everyone else can see it?
All this work is being put into Greymoors environment and the immersion, but it will be ruined by players running around in their clown costumes.
What I propose is that there be a game setting where other PCs are drawn with their stock racial styles. That's it. I dont want to see a male orc in a Technicolor wedding dress when I'm exploring the new Blackreach.
thats actually not a bad idea as it might significantly reduce load on the server and improve performance? pve players will like it for immersion and pvp player for performance?! really good idea...love it1 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭tbh it would even be nice to have an option to instance a region gor yourself so you can experience the story and area for yourself first...for the last chapter what i ususally did is story content from 5 am to noon gor that reaso and then switched to group play in the afternoon...0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Hmmm. Methinks its less about lore than it is your nostalgia for Skyrim's relatively muted color palette.
How about nostalgia for ESO, before it turned into a circus ....
At what point, exactly, did ESO "turn into a circus"?
We've had garish dye jobs and non-lore based names since launch.
The Nightmare Courser came out in 2015. So did the Mindshriven skin and horse.
Dro-m'athra senche came out in 2016.
ESO has never, ever provided the level of visual "immersion" that some people want. Duh. Its not a single-player game. It's not Skyrim. The brighter color scheme is a lot closer to Oblivion, the unique cultural armors are a lot closer to Morrowind, and - to be blunt - the prevalance of daedric mounts is entirely in keeping with the removal of the aedric protections against daedra summoning as we learned in Oblivion. The complaints about "flashy" mounts are essentially griping that ESO is more of a "high magic" setting than people like which, again, I can only chalk up to Skyrim nostalgia from people who like to forget that Arvak was a thing.
ZOS isn't going to cater to the whims of a few players who think they get to dictate what is and isn't lore-friendly in terms of appearances. Or what is and isn't "immersive", for that matter. If they did, I'd put in a plug for taking away our ability to swim while wearing armor, and I doubt too many people would appreciate that extremely immersive change.3 -
LukosCreyden✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If it is something that is obtainable in-game, it is lore friendly. As such; a "lore switch" would do nothing. Everything already complies with established lore.
It just so happens that a lot of this established lore had not actually been seen in-game before.
As for colourful outfits and orcs in wedding dresses.... what is stopping me throwing on a wedding dress irl right now? Would I immediately vanish because I do not comply with the real world's laws of existence? No, I would not.
As I said, if it is in the game, it is in the lore. Also no, for those wondering, ESO is not happening in a Dragon Break, although we did stop one from happening in the Psijic skill line quests.Struggling to find a new class to call home.Please send help.4 -
redgreensunset✭✭✭✭✭
✭Okay fair enough, but only if it means we all get a toggle to set other toons to look like we want to. Because I really want every toon to run around in a technicolor wedding dress.
If you get to decide how I should look then I get to decide how you should be dressed, that's only fair.0 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »The idea of the thread is based on a false assumption. Since Zos owns the lore and determines what that lore is what you see characters wearing and riding is not lore breaking. That is a fact regardless of it being something you clearly disagree with.
Do you know of any records in Morrowind explaining why the vast number of atronach (and other) mounts either appeared, or disappeared entirely in the 741 years between the start of ESO and the beginning of TES 3?
You don't need any written explanation when you can just look how magic and wonders declined since morrowind to bland and gray skyrim, their design choices pretty nice covered eso cash shop. Also if you'll read up some vivec sermons or other similar books you probably would imagine that older times were way more magical and not as grounded as what we had in sp titles.
I've read quite a few of the books.
It is not the decline in their use that I am surprised at, it is certainly a possible thing. We only need to look at the Levitation Act and what that did to Magic to recognise that as a possibility. My issue is that instead of making a change in the present and carrying it forward with appropriate references (like in the Levitation Act) we are in a situation where something is being added to the past... to which there are no references, that I am aware of, in any of the later texts or games. And we have access to books written in this era in those games.
To be explicit, it isn't that it is a retcon (retroactive continuity) but that it is a proretcon (proactive retroactive continuity), i.e. a change to things that hasn't happened yet in a way that requires that we never hear about it.Edited by Iluvrien on April 17, 2020 10:59AM1 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »We've had garish dye jobs and non-lore based names since launch.
The Nightmare Courser came out in 2015. So did the Mindshriven skin and horse.
Dro-m'athra senche came out in 2016.
The names I will grant you.
The dye system came in in update 11 in July 2016.
As you said, the Nightmare Courser (March 2015), Mindshriven items (November 2015) and Dro-m'athra Senche (May 2016) all arrived after launch.
The game launched in April 2014. So that is roughly a year of wearing the colour schemes set by the designers, and riding (comparatively) standard mounts. Unless you can find earlier examples?Edited by Iluvrien on April 17, 2020 11:11AM2 -
criscal✭✭✭I would love the idea to go further and hide player characters and their effects and turn it into something close to the offline elder scrolls series. The problem though is that you would have to instantiate mobs for each of the players who have the option on - not cool for overall game performance for everybody. So yeah, filtering the attire of players in your client would be a way to go - only at low priority though considering the sorry state of the game as a whole.0
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Xologamer✭✭✭✭I would love the idea to go further and hide player characters and their effects and turn it into something close to the offline elder scrolls series. The problem though is that you would have to instantiate mobs for each of the players who have the option on - not cool for overall game performance for everybody. So yeah, filtering the attire of players in your client would be a way to go - only at low priority though considering the sorry state of the game as a whole.
so you basicly would want to turn this into elder scrolls VI ? rahter than an online game what it SHOULD be1 -
redgreensunset✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would love the idea to go further and hide player characters and their effects and turn it into something close to the offline elder scrolls series. The problem though is that you would have to instantiate mobs for each of the players who have the option on - not cool for overall game performance for everybody. So yeah, filtering the attire of players in your client would be a way to go - only at low priority though considering the sorry state of the game as a whole.
so you basicly would want to turn this into elder scrolls VI ? rahter than an online game what it SHOULD be
So many people here doesn't grasp that they've decided to play not only and online game, but an MMO. What they want is a single player game. In which case they really ought to go play one of the five other Elder Scrolls titles which are all single player and leave the sole Elder Scroll MMO alone.2 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »We've had garish dye jobs and non-lore based names since launch.
The Nightmare Courser came out in 2015. So did the Mindshriven skin and horse.
Dro-m'athra senche came out in 2016.
The names I will grant you.
The dye system came in in update 11 in July 2016.
As you said, the Nightmare Courser (March 2015), Mindshriven items (November 2015) and Dro-m'athra Senche (May 2016) all arrived after launch.
The game launched in April 2014. So that is roughly a year of wearing the colour schemes set by the designers, and riding (comparatively) standard mounts. Unless you can find earlier examples?
Of course, "colour schemes set by the designers"... Like bright green of any tier 4 (dwarven) item? Or iridiscent glowy violet of tier 5 and tier 9 (ebon/void steel)? Pink of galatite? Not even talking about the infamous rich red of rubedite. Those bright colors were in the game from the very start.
Which is why I find OP's idea even more amusing. Most players in the game are wearing CP160 gear. Why would they be rendered in tier 1 (homespun/rawhide/iron) gear which has more natural colours? It will be appropriate for their gear to be red, like all tier 10 items.
Somehow I doubt this will fit their very narrow definition of "immersion"...3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »We've had garish dye jobs and non-lore based names since launch.
The Nightmare Courser came out in 2015. So did the Mindshriven skin and horse.
Dro-m'athra senche came out in 2016.
The names I will grant you.
The dye system came in in update 11 in July 2016.
As you said, the Nightmare Courser (March 2015), Mindshriven items (November 2015) and Dro-m'athra Senche (May 2016) all arrived after launch.
The game launched in April 2014. So that is roughly a year of wearing the colour schemes set by the designers, and riding (comparatively) standard mounts. Unless you can find earlier examples?
Fair enough, I forgot the dye system was added.
Though Royaji makes an excellent point about the color schemes of the original armors. Some of them were reasonable - iron/steel. The Dwarven, void, and eventually rubedite? Not so sedate. If you weren't seeing those colors in any great numbers, it's probably because of the pre-One Tamriel level-based instancing, which also cut down on the number of players running around.
But okay, I'll allow that players might have some nostalgia for ESO appearances at launch, as opposed to purely longing for Skyrim. I think its got about as much validity as the longing for Pre-One Tamriel we see occasionally on the forums: it had a few good points, but nothing worth expecting ZOS to provide a "classic" option for players who want it.0 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »
Again, no. Unless you are literally saying that loading screens are canon, and in Tamriel you have to go through loading screens every time you enter a building or cross from Northern to Southern Elsweyr, there are obviously aspects of games that exist for game design rather than lore building. And no one at ZOS is going to say that the male Orc xXxSparkyPantsxXx was genuinely Emperor of Cyrodiil and wore a bright pink dress and rode a sparkly mushroom pony, canonically.Darkstorne wrote: »
The events are canon. That doesn’t mean every single visual detail is canon. You know that. You wouldn’t take the world’s scale in ESO as canon, or the “whoops, we forgot to leave a space for Blacklight in Morrowind” as canon, or the presence of loading screens separating zones as canon, would you? Some aspects are clearly for the game, not canon, and selling whales peacock outfits and mounts are part of that.
ESO has done a lot to challenge MMO norms and evolve the genre though, and I love them for that. One Tamriel removing level gating for example, when a lot of unimaginative folks would say “it’s an MMO, it has to have level gating.” I’m convinced that one day we’ll see an MMO learn when it’s a good idea to phase players into solo instances, and when it’s best to phase into multiplayer instances. Delves and questing in the overland or villages and small towns would be much better solo for instance, where the game challenge is designed for solo play, and MMO tropes like respawns would no longer need to be relied on as a crutch. Delve design could be vastly improved as a result, with guaranteed chests at the end of dungeons like single player TES games. World bosses, dolmens, public dungeons, and larger towns and cities could all auto phase in other players. That way immersion is improved while questing or exploring, and players are still around when you actually want them to be. Until then, we’re stuck with peacocks though
Take this beautiful gameplay video for Greymoor for example. Looks gorgeous! But sadly not representative of the game without smart phasing tech, since it’s missing all the peacocked players running and jumping around, sprinting through the delves animation cancelling their way to the boss faster than you can so you just have a corpse-littered walk instead of a fun delve...
https://youtu.be/gJodQfNx-ws
The funny part about this canon stuff, is that every single TES game "broke the lore" somehow but still "became lore". That's the part we disagree. Until tes6, blades or eso2 come out and explain why we had these things and now we dont anymore, or Bethesda comes out saying "yeah, that was dumb", it is what it is.
And I'm not saying it isn't distracting and silly, there's a reason my characters are all proper geared with back stories and lore aligned looks. I'm saying, however, that orc male maid riding a psijiic camel and having a small dragon as a pet, absurd as it may seem, is something we have to accept "actually" happened in the history on tamriel. If the dragonborn and nerevarine and whoever else had their "proper looks", sadly to gatekeepers, the vestige dressed like it's 2020 in New York or LA. If the vestige had a different, more spearheading, taste for looks, that's not enough to make that vestige non canon. That's only enough to make it look like an attention seeker.
Whether an attention seeker would ever be the hero of all tamriel many times over, that's another debate entirely, and one I'm not gonna delve into.
So what you're saying is "game mechanics aren't canon, but I'm going to continue to use game mechanics to indicate that an MMO isn't canon"?
Whole lot of people spending a whole lot of time worrying about what someone else is doing. I shake my head a lot going to the local grocery store, but I don't spend a lot of time trying to convince the managers that they shouldn't allow people dressed like that in. It's the same in game, only to be quite honest, I must be in the "lore friendly" maps a lot more often than not, because I'm not noticing this overabundance of pink wedding dress wearing orc warriors, or anything else equally as silly. Maybe it's that they aren't as prevalent as some would like us to believe, or maybe it's that I'm spending more time worrying about what I'm doing, instead of what Player 2 is doing?0 -
Ri_Khan✭✭✭✭✭
✭I find it very conceited and shallow of people that can't seem to handle the idea of a random stranger in a video game not wanting to have every other players' so-called "artistic expression" jammed down their GPU. They must think very highly of themselves and their design skills, that's for sure.
The thing is, player's like me don't pay attention to or care about other avatars, mounts or vanity pets. We never did and we never will. Some clearly don't even care what their own characters look like. Personally, I'm much more concerned with fps loss and ping spikes, which coincidentally happen every.single.time someone's desperate cry for attention pops onto my screen. Seeing as how performance is at an all time low right now for a lot of us, any option to try to tone things down would be very much appreciated.
There's no vanity pets in Cyro, right? That needs to be taken a step further.1 -
Xologamer✭✭✭✭I find it very conceited and shallow of people that can't seem to handle the idea of a random stranger in a video game not wanting to have every other players' so-called "artistic expression" jammed down their GPU. They must think very highly of themselves and their design skills, that's for sure.
The thing is, player's like me don't pay attention to or care about other avatars, mounts or vanity pets. We never did and we never will. Some clearly don't even care what their own characters look like. Personally, I'm much more concerned with fps loss and ping spikes, which coincidentally happen every.single.time someone's desperate cry for attention pops onto my screen. Seeing as how performance is at an all time low right now for a lot of us, any option to try to tone things down would be very much appreciated.
There's no vanity pets in Cyro, right? That needs to be taken a step further.
just disable all vanity pets no one would notice (without the improved performance ) 0 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »The idea of the thread is based on a false assumption. Since Zos owns the lore and determines what that lore is what you see characters wearing and riding is not lore breaking. That is a fact regardless of it being something you clearly disagree with.
Do you know of any records in Morrowind explaining why the vast number of atronach (and other) mounts either appeared, or disappeared entirely in the 741 years between the start of ESO and the beginning of TES 3?
You don't need any written explanation when you can just look how magic and wonders declined since morrowind to bland and gray skyrim, their design choices pretty nice covered eso cash shop. Also if you'll read up some vivec sermons or other similar books you probably would imagine that older times were way more magical and not as grounded as what we had in sp titles.
the streamlining was cerainly taken too far in skyrim and fallout 5.... at the same time i dont necessarily have an issue if magic diminishes more and old mystical ways get forgotten as the elder scrolls world moves forward while other technologies rise....could be an interesting development0 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »Some people act like it was NOT common in medieval-ish times for knights to wear the colors of their clan / ruler / land, etc. Just look at what knights or samurai did sometimes to their armor to make darn sure everyone knew exactly who they are dealing with!
And even once you get into the guns-n-cannons era - some of the uniforms worn in Napoleonic times, or US Civil War, were amazing.
https://i1.wp.com/militaryhistorynow.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/zouaves.jpg0
This discussion has been closed.