I want an option to draw other PCs with lore appropriate outfits.

opaj

Oh man you guys. If I got myself all twisted up about lore breaks, I wouldn't be able to play any Elder Scrolls game, because they all contradict each other in major ways.

And I'm saying this as someone who plays Elder Scrolls primarily for the lore. My main character engages in the esoteric metaphysics of Mysticism and morphotypical dynamics for breakfast. I have invoked the enantiomorph more than once in my dealings with other players. I do care about the lore.

But I've found that I have a much better time if I stop saying "It isn't supposed to be that way!" and instead saying "What interesting things must have happened for it to be this way?" Otherwise, I'd still twisting myself up over the Imperialization of the Nords in Skyrim or the de-jungled Cyrodiil in Oblivion (and obviously ESO). And, compared to the singleplayer games, I actually do think that ZOS has done a pretty dang good job of honoring the preexisting lore in their new content. I don't agree with all of their decisions, obviously, but it's still pretty dang good.

So, going back to the OP, let's look at the flashy costumes, insane mounts, and out-of-this-world skins. Taken individually, these aren't really lore problems. Every single one of these items are theoretically plausible within the framework of the Aurbis. There's nothing lore-breaking about a mortal whose skin is imbued with the power of Meridia or an imp that's been trained to create dragon illusions or a magical wolf construct made of pure light. An Elf who's transformed their skin into Argonian scales is unusual, certainly, but not impossible. And there's certainly nothing farfetched about a brawny Orcish man in a pink wedding dress, even if it would be considered odd by most Tamrielic societies.

The problem, then, is the fact that whenever you go to town you're liable to see dozens of players each wearing a gaudy mishmash of these outlandish traits. This is hard to square with a vision of Tamriel as a living, breathing, self-consistent world. Unfortunately, that cat is too far out of its bag to ever stuff it back in. For my own sanity, I've come up with a solution, but I understand that most people won't see it this way:

With the shattering of the veil between worlds, Tamriel has been plunged into a state of heightened merethicality (pardon the strange turn of phrase) that it hasn't seen since the Middle Dawn. I don't want to say Dragon Break--I am not a fan of the mechanic--but the bleeding energies between Mundus, Oblivion, and the rest of the Grey Maybe has opened up a universe of possibilities for anyone with the will and potential to seize it. ESO is the Aldudagga reincarnated as a video game. The player-character heroes of the Second Era are half-baked thoughtforms plucked from a Kirkbridian fever dream. The marketplaces are crowded with burly half-naked barbarians, strange factotums and machinists from far realms and deepest Dwemer dungeons, conjurers clad in the garments of a million million planes, and yes, adherents of Sheogorath draped in pastel jester's rags. Roving bands of these Heroes with a capital H, some of them godly powerful, some of them simply unhinged, fight for dominance in Cyrodiil, and every week a new warlord with a chip on their shoulder crowns themselves the new emperor or empress, only to be dethroned a few days later.

Like I said, this won't work for everyone. I was inspired to this view by the webcomic Kill Six Billion Demons (which was itself inspired by Morrowind, particularly the metaphysical elements penned by Michael Kirkbride). Since adopting this philosophy, however, my enjoyment of the ESO game world has improved immeasurably.

SpLaTTyDaDDy

Game runs like total crap. But hey let's turn the thicc orc boyz mogs off. I personally enjoy getting random compliments from people about my mogs.

Salix_alba

lol turn off other players and then wonder why all the mobs dfo in front of you and why you cant farm anything cause it just up and disappears.

imagine turning off other players in the presence of a murder hobo you'd think some apocalypse was happening.

also this is a social game so be social have fun you don't have to like the weirdos but you cant really do anything about them just like real life. This isn't the good old days when men were men and sheep were scared so get over it.

[snip]

embrace weirdness it makes things interesting go make some weird friends if you want to be alone in game the command is /camp

[edited for Rude and Insulting Comments]

D0PAMINE

Um. No. LOL.

A_Silverius

ZonasArch wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Red_Feather wrote: »

I really hope this game doesn't keep selling out to gimmick cash shop skins.

Look at what guild wars 2 just did. It makes playing hard to stomach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QoCh75C4dI

They actually have a lore explanation for that at least, the mount is based on the GW2 April Fools Event called Super Adventure Box which is a virtual reality world created by a race called the Asura.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJJyma0mMU&ab_channel=GuildWars2

I however have a hard time seeing players with these lore-breaking skins and not to mention the many glowing mounts running around in Tamriel.

The game is canon, and if it's in the game, it's part of the lore. There's even descriptions of them, to build lore.

If you are so entitled that you refuse to accept lore expansion except of it is one you agree/like, then you should go create your own IP. One that you can keep entirely to your taste, instead of having Bethesda expand on it.

Well I don't think ESO is 100% canon for obvious reasons being an mmo. Also that line of thought that "if it's in the game, it's part of the lore" is flawed logic because what if ZOS had added something truly gimmicky like that virtual pixel dinosaur mount from GW2 in ESO and say it's just one of Sheogorath's illusion and what not. I guess that means they are canon now?

Yes I am entitled to my opinions but hey, so are you and I am okay with that.
Yes I refuse to accept the lore of these skins and mounts but I learnt to live with them and come to the understanding that other players enjoy these skins that I find lore breaking.
No it's not going to make me create my own IP to suit my taste. Forums are a place for discussions, feedback and opinions. I hope you learn to understand that there are going to be as many people who you will disagree with as those who you would agree with. Saying things to everyone you disagree with like they're "entitled" "go create your own IP." is not constructive and frankly, does not reflect well on the ESO community.

SickleCider

Just be thankful the character creator isn't as flexible as the one in Dark Souls.

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

After removing a few comments due to Baiting, we would like to remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the rules. Baiting is a violation of those rules and is stated as such:

Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

Raisin

This is Canon.

yRaven

Next time i will do vAS skin with Carnival theme with the most bright pink i can find

MattT1988

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Your immersion is not my problem. I’ll make my character look however I like. You or anyone else doesn’t get a say in that.

The topic is about the option not to see your outfit.
Who said anything about what you do yourself?

That comment wasn’t so much directed at the OP rather some certain replies.

But as you mentioned it I think it’ll be a total waste of developers time to spend resources hiding other peoples character appearances from over sensitive people who take the lore too seriously.

Runefang

I want the option to have every player wear the Nordic Bath Towel. We can't all get what we want.

Ri_Khan

I very much like the idea of having the option to simplify other pc's and their mounts with basic racial and faction uniforms or reskins. Likewise, an option to never have to see another pet again would be very welcome, especially if even the slightest potential for performance improvement was involved.

idk

ZonasArch wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Red_Feather wrote: »

I really hope this game doesn't keep selling out to gimmick cash shop skins.

Look at what guild wars 2 just did. It makes playing hard to stomach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QoCh75C4dI

They actually have a lore explanation for that at least, the mount is based on the GW2 April Fools Event called Super Adventure Box which is a virtual reality world created by a race called the Asura.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJJyma0mMU&ab_channel=GuildWars2

I however have a hard time seeing players with these lore-breaking skins and not to mention the many glowing mounts running around in Tamriel.

The game is canon, and if it's in the game, it's part of the lore. There's even descriptions of them, to build lore.

If you are so entitled that you refuse to accept lore expansion except of it is one you agree/like, then you should go create your own IP. One that you can keep entirely to your taste, instead of having Bethesda expand on it.

You are completely accurate. Zos owns the IP which means they own the lore. If they add something to the game it automatically becomes part of lore regardless of how someone feels about it.

ImmortalCX

MattT1988 wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Your immersion is not my problem. I’ll make my character look however I like. You or anyone else doesn’t get a say in that.

The topic is about the option not to see your outfit.
Who said anything about what you do yourself?

That comment wasn’t so much directed at the OP rather some certain replies.

But as you mentioned it I think it’ll be a total waste of developers time to spend resources hiding other peoples character appearances from over sensitive people who take the lore too seriously.

This is more baiting/trolling.

Its not about being over sensitive, but being able to enjoy the game in an immersive fashion.

LadyNalcarya

ImmortalCX wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Your immersion is not my problem. I’ll make my character look however I like. You or anyone else doesn’t get a say in that.

The topic is about the option not to see your outfit.
Who said anything about what you do yourself?

That comment wasn’t so much directed at the OP rather some certain replies.

But as you mentioned it I think it’ll be a total waste of developers time to spend resources hiding other peoples character appearances from over sensitive people who take the lore too seriously.

This is more baiting/trolling.

Its not about being over sensitive, but being able to enjoy the game in an immersive fashion.

It is, though.
You can roleplay, but you cannot force other players to do so. Even if you disable other people's outfits, people would not act the same way as npcs. They would still dance on top of the forge in Vivec, stack together in front of bankers, jump around, duel, and act in ways no sane person would. Not to mention that not all character/account/guild names are gonna be lore-friendly.
I'm not a fan of glowing mounts and burly orcs in pink dresses, but I think that trying to dictate what others should look like is much worse than that.

Iluvrien

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

If you truly want to get into the story and the concept of immersion, then immerse yourself in this- at any point in time, any member of any race has the free will to break through their cultural norms as a form of self expression, and whether you/your character like it or not, they will be there, just as they are in the real world, and you will have to deal with it.

I've see this approach to this conversation a couple of times, it intrigues me.

So, in the course of playing today I hit several major (and or capital) cities in at least two of the three alliances.

In each of those cases, players outnumbered the NPC inhabitants by an estimated 2-3 times. (i.e. there were twice or thrice as many players in that city as NPCs)

I am not going to pretend I captured footage from each location and counted the number of players who were wearing "non-cultural-norms" armour sets because, frankly, I have a wife and son that I spend time with too. My sense was that, as is usual, most had some sort of fantastical element to their presentation. At the very least.

On that basis... what is the nature of a "cultural norm" when most of the inhabitants of a city at any one moment don't adhere to it?

Sylvermynx

Geesh. The breakline here is that if you want total control over what you see in a game (as regards the way people look - meaning garb) you need to play SPMR games. MMOs are not going to provide anyone with homogenized anything (well.... other than, in this case, classes.... *sticks tongue out at ZOS*).

Seriously. MMOs are a whole other situation. I really have a huge amount of doubt that ZOS is going to enforce homogenized garb on anyone who plays. And honestly? If they went there because someone (OP....) got her knickers in a twist, probably the mass exodus would leave anyone remaining without a viable game.

ImmortalCX

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Your immersion is not my problem. I’ll make my character look however I like. You or anyone else doesn’t get a say in that.

The topic is about the option not to see your outfit.
Who said anything about what you do yourself?

That comment wasn’t so much directed at the OP rather some certain replies.

But as you mentioned it I think it’ll be a total waste of developers time to spend resources hiding other peoples character appearances from over sensitive people who take the lore too seriously.

This is more baiting/trolling.

Its not about being over sensitive, but being able to enjoy the game in an immersive fashion.

It is, though.
You can roleplay, but you cannot force other players to do so. Even if you disable other people's outfits, people would not act the same way as npcs. They would still dance on top of the forge in Vivec, stack together in front of bankers, jump around, duel, and act in ways no sane person would. Not to mention that not all character/account/guild names are gonna be lore-friendly.
I'm not a fan of glowing mounts and burly orcs in pink dresses, but I think that trying to dictate what others should look like is much worse than that.

I'm not suggesting people be forced to do anything they don't want.

My not seeing your costume will not affect your game in any way.

Frankly, most people probably want to see costumes, so these people will probably have 90% as many eyes if they did this.

I think its a great idea, but I know it won't happen because ZOS can't even fix bugs. The only way this gets done is if an argument can be made that it increases performance. Then the PVP crowd will all want it.

LadyNalcarya

ImmortalCX wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Your immersion is not my problem. I’ll make my character look however I like. You or anyone else doesn’t get a say in that.

The topic is about the option not to see your outfit.
Who said anything about what you do yourself?

That comment wasn’t so much directed at the OP rather some certain replies.

But as you mentioned it I think it’ll be a total waste of developers time to spend resources hiding other peoples character appearances from over sensitive people who take the lore too seriously.

This is more baiting/trolling.

Its not about being over sensitive, but being able to enjoy the game in an immersive fashion.

It is, though.
You can roleplay, but you cannot force other players to do so. Even if you disable other people's outfits, people would not act the same way as npcs. They would still dance on top of the forge in Vivec, stack together in front of bankers, jump around, duel, and act in ways no sane person would. Not to mention that not all character/account/guild names are gonna be lore-friendly.
I'm not a fan of glowing mounts and burly orcs in pink dresses, but I think that trying to dictate what others should look like is much worse than that.

I'm not suggesting people be forced to do anything they don't want.

My not seeing your costume will not affect your game in any way.

Frankly, most people probably want to see costumes, so these people will probably have 90% as many eyes if they did this.

I think its a great idea, but I know it won't happen because ZOS can't even fix bugs. The only way this gets done is if an argument can be made that it increases performance. Then the PVP crowd will all want it.

Well, your ingame avatar is how other people will see you. Lots of people see character creation as a way of self-expession, and this whole idea of supressing it just feels wrong imo.
And I don't really see how that would improve immersion, because people still won't act like they're characters in your story and your immersion will still be broken by names, chat etc.

Dusk_Coven

ImmortalCX wrote: »

If you need to force other people to see your "artistic" choices, that is a problem.

There's a demographic that is happy to sneakily make people see what they want. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/497823/libcustomtitles-lua-before-you-saw-this-poll

Dusk_Coven

IsharaMeradin wrote: »

At the same time, I do wonder which would be more "immersion" breaking:

• Players running around in all sorts of outfits some of which may be out of place
• Players running around in all the same gear solely depending upon their race
  

If it helps with performance, I'd be happy to have the options. If it hinders performance, leave it out of the game.

How about based on their alliance. You know, like an Alliance Uniform.

Lysette

Tandor wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, I would like to be able to derender all but friends - what about that?- It is an MMO and in the end we will have to tolerate each other to a certain point. I don't like the glowing mounts with all these noisy and flashy summoning effects and lasting particles later on, but it is unlikely that it will disappear. People paid for it and I guess they want it to be seen.

There's clearly justification in the argument that having paid for it they want to see it themselves, but I don't see any justification in the argument that they want other people to see it. That simply puts them in the same category as forum posters who insist on creating a new topic with the heading in caps rather than adding their comment to an existing topic.It's attaching a level of self-importance among others that simply isn't justified.

Ok, I guess the argument I wanted to make failed, because I wasn't clear enough about it. IMO we have a right to control our appearance to others - not unlike the right to one's own image in real life. I see any vital change to my appearance in the game as a violation to this. There might not be a legal right to it, but it is a moral one - I have a right to control how I appear to others. And if someone doesn't like that, I would be fine with him being able to derender me totally, but not to misrepresent my personality by altering my appearance. And when it comes to paid costumes, it would be making use of my appearance in a misrepresenting way by commercial reasons, if ZOS would offer this option to redress my characters - in the real world it would be violating the right to my own image - in ESO it is just a character image and so no legal issue, but it is a moral one.

idk

ImmortalCX wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Your immersion is not my problem. I’ll make my character look however I like. You or anyone else doesn’t get a say in that.

The topic is about the option not to see your outfit.
Who said anything about what you do yourself?

That comment wasn’t so much directed at the OP rather some certain replies.

But as you mentioned it I think it’ll be a total waste of developers time to spend resources hiding other peoples character appearances from over sensitive people who take the lore too seriously.

This is more baiting/trolling.

Its not about being over sensitive, but being able to enjoy the game in an immersive fashion.

It is, though.
You can roleplay, but you cannot force other players to do so. Even if you disable other people's outfits, people would not act the same way as npcs. They would still dance on top of the forge in Vivec, stack together in front of bankers, jump around, duel, and act in ways no sane person would. Not to mention that not all character/account/guild names are gonna be lore-friendly.
I'm not a fan of glowing mounts and burly orcs in pink dresses, but I think that trying to dictate what others should look like is much worse than that.

I'm not suggesting people be forced to do anything they don't want.

My not seeing your costume will not affect your game in any way.

Frankly, most people probably want to see costumes, so these people will probably have 90% as many eyes if they did this.

I think its a great idea, but I know it won't happen because ZOS can't even fix bugs. The only way this gets done is if an argument can be made that it increases performance. Then the PVP crowd will all want it.

The idea of the thread is based on a false assumption. Since Zos owns the lore and determines what that lore is what you see characters wearing and riding is not lore breaking. That is a fact regardless of it being something you clearly disagree with.

Dusk_Coven

IsharaMeradin wrote: »

I played one game that had options to hide other player outfits with a basic style. It also had options to hide players outside of the team as well as hiding pets and even enemies. In no way did it hamper their sales of cosmetics and pets. It was merely an option for players experiencing poor performance to reduce what was being loaded on screen.

I'd want an option for just performance reasons alone. Seems like the game is constantly loading -- and RE-loading -- textures near me. If you look away and turn back, it's often shifted to a low-res blur and is now reapply the hi-res version again.
A switch to not-display players would be simple.
The ability to make Private Instances would be even better -- they aren't there and no processing even to hide them needs to happen at all.

ZonasArch

I'll say this one thing... I can get behind your idea OP, as long as when you turn off our looks in "your game" (funny concept, thinking you own anything), it automatically makes you look like the shiniest of clowns on our side. Like a sheogorath being blessed by azura after bathing in a psijiic tub. Either that, or it makes you look like the lamest of lame simpleton NPCs. It maybe even a different form, like a stray dog. Then I could get behind your idea. Would make for a fun environment for deep immersion people, and a hilarious one for carnival style ESO lovers.

Everyone would be happy. You'd see a bunch of badass soldiers, mages, scholars, and we would see you.

LadyNalcarya

ZonasArch wrote: »

I'll say this one thing... I can get behind your idea OP, as long as when you turn off our looks in "your game" (funny concept, thinking you own anything), it automatically makes you look like the shiniest of clowns on our side. Like a sheogorath being blessed by azura after bathing in a psijiic tub. Either that, or it makes you look like the lamest of lame simpleton NPCs. It maybe even a different form, like a stray dog. Then I could get behind your idea. Would make for a fun environment for deep immersion people, and a hilarious one for carnival style ESO lovers.

Everyone would be happy. You'd see a bunch of badass soldiers, mages, scholars, and we would see you.

That's a nice idea.
Or maybe whoever turns on this option would be forced to wear default lvl 10 armor as well. For the sake of optimization, of course.

Nerouyn

idk wrote: »

The idea of the thread is based on a false assumption. Since Zos owns the lore and determines what that lore is what you see characters wearing and riding is not lore breaking.

No.

ZonasArch

Nerouyn wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The idea of the thread is based on a false assumption. Since Zos owns the lore and determines what that lore is what you see characters wearing and riding is not lore breaking.

No.

Denial, from the list "5 stages of grief".

ZonasArch

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

I'll say this one thing... I can get behind your idea OP, as long as when you turn off our looks in "your game" (funny concept, thinking you own anything), it automatically makes you look like the shiniest of clowns on our side. Like a sheogorath being blessed by azura after bathing in a psijiic tub. Either that, or it makes you look like the lamest of lame simpleton NPCs. It maybe even a different form, like a stray dog. Then I could get behind your idea. Would make for a fun environment for deep immersion people, and a hilarious one for carnival style ESO lovers.

Everyone would be happy. You'd see a bunch of badass soldiers, mages, scholars, and we would see you.

That's a nice idea.
Or maybe whoever turns on this option would be forced to wear default lvl 10 armor as well. For the sake of optimization, of course.

Of course.

ZonasArch

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

If you need to force other people to see your "artistic" choices, that is a problem.

There's a demographic that is happy to sneakily make people see what they want. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/497823/libcustomtitles-lua-before-you-saw-this-poll

Intewesting... Guess what I'm downloading next? If you guessed DisableLibCustomTitles, you're correct!