AcadianPaladin wrote: »

If OP was talking about buffing quest big bosses for all, I'd oppose it. But OP is simply asking for an option and I see no downside to those who either want to or don't want to avail themselves of such an option. Some time ago the game gave us the luxurious flexibility to manage questlines in any order we choose and the option suggested by the OP seems like a perfect companion to that direction.

Thanks I honestly think that this difficulty issues and lack of challenge for casual but more experienced players (maybe biggest part of players) who just want to do some questing and exploring Is one of the biggest issues the game has nowadays. For a big chunk of players this makes the game unenjoyable and It makes a lot of players leaving the game and zos really should stop ignoring It and start doing something about IT and I think that this one simple and elegant option would pretty much solve it.

While I do agree that overland could, and should, be tuned up a little, especially quest bosses, I think waiting until you're geared up and high CP to do them and then expecting them to be a challenge is a bit unrealistic, as they would still need to be tuned for new players.

If you really want questing to be more fun and immersive you can try doing what I do. I level all my characters 1-50 through questing. I don't apply CP until they hit 50, or sometimes mid to high 40s, if they're in their 40s and noticeably out-leveling their gear I'll give them CP to compensate rather than bothering to craft them another set. They'll usually wear found gear (which can be sets or sometimes not) until sometime in their 20s when level ups start coming slower, at which point I'll make them white crafted gear, usually of sets that sound fun or that I've been curious about trying out rather than just going for the most OP combination.

My most recent, a currently level 28 magplar healer, I haven't even been unlocking passives on. I unlock her skills, level and morph them, so she has about 20 skill points sitting unused ready to go whenever I feel I need them. ATM she's wearing white Seducer's mixed with Light Speaker's, but the Light Speaker's is underleveled at this point so I plan to replace it maybe today, probably with Coldharbour's Favorite because I've never used that set and it sounds fun.

She runs each dungeon once, at the level it unlocks, just to work toward her undaunted progress, but she never does randoms or anything to speed up the leveling process. She's never used an exp scroll and she didn't get any cake, because doing this way actually makes questing fun and emersive and makes me not want to rush through.

Coldharbor's Favorite is fun. I have used it when running a duo dungeon session with my brother. When it goes off, it's fun to see if it does damage or healing.

krachall wrote: »

We have legions of players who literally can't figure out how to click the LA button before clicking a skill and have mounted a campaign to prevent OTHER players from doing this and you want to make quests HARDER?

[Snip] if you read the OP's post in its entirety, you would clearly see that the OP is asking for an optional harder (veteran) version of the normal overland content.

[Edited for bait]

martygod12 wrote: »

I dont think the game looks that great to just enjoy the scenery but ok, but everyone feels it differently.

The point is not to buff the main story bosses so hard that you´d need a group to kill them. Just make them hard enough so they can be soloed but give at least some challenge. Again all this only as an OPTION for those who want it. If you feel they are challenging enough you play the quest in normal mode, if you want more challenge you switch the quest to vet mode adn have stronger boss simple as that.

As I said, more options are all great. I'm all for more options.

The only problem is it spreads the player base out. There's loads of noise on here about people not wanting a PvE Cyrodiil or solo dungeons since that will take your already-long queues and make them longer since there's fewer people to choose from. As a primarily solo player, I couldn't be bothered if I end up the only player in my Cyro campaign - that leaves me no chance of getting ganked so I can collect the skyshards and do the town quests in peace. But I know a lot of PvP'ers really don't want to see the population of Cyrodiil drop even lower if they lure all of the PvE'ers out. Same with dungeons - you think your queue is long and gives you fake tanks now, what'll happen when a bunch of the real tanks end up running solo dungeons instead of queueing since they don't want to deal with PUGs.

The main issue would be a 'vet mode' isn't settable by character unless it worked by halving your stats locally...which is why people say "just wear white gear!" Otherwise, you'd need a separate instance of every world: a normal and a vet mode, and then you'd have to port into the other mode. Again, look how few people are in certain zones and imagine how the "noob zones" would fare if you removed all of the CP players. Yes, we already have a few instances of each world - so would they have enough to change one instance to a 'vet'? I dunno. I'm pretty new, but I remember reading that Craglorn used to be exactly what is being asked for here. And then it was brought down since nobody was happy with it - the pros still saw it as a cakewalk and the new players couldn't do a thing so they didn't like it either. Same with Murkmire - a zone designed around difficulty and group content, which was quickly retooled since the general population didn't like it.

And also remember: the MQ bosses are at a soloable-but-harder-than-mobs difficulty, just like Delve bosses. To an experienced player, they're nothing. To a Lv 5 newb who's never played an MMO before, they're intimidating. Remember, most people here (not including me, I'm still closer to noob material) are able to solo WBs, so a 'hardmode' would basically be asking to make them into something like WBs. I don't know too many new players with the highest character at Lv 17 that can take on a WB solo.

This all comes down to the whole 'play as you want' going to its logical conclusion. Some people like to play solo, some in groups. Some like to be challenged, some like to relax. Some like to min-max, some like to RP, some like to focus on the lore. As a result, it's best to make the overworld easier to not scare off the softcore players, while giving the hardcore players other content to do. Sure, the softcore players will want to be able to do the trials or dungeons, but then they need to work at it or buy carries. The hardcores want a vicious overland, but then they need to go out naked. Now one thing that might be good is if you didn't get your CP spread across all characters - if your Lv 1 character only had Lv 1 stats. Then it's easy to go and play a normal zone and have it be tough. But again it's a self-imposed challenge: "Don't assign any CP until you make it to Lv 50."

As I said, I'm all for options, but the issue isn't that we'll all of a sudden have the same playerbase in both modes then. You'd have a partial playerbase in each. And the fewer people you're playing an MMO with, the less likely that people who play group content will stick around.

Wa2p wrote: »

But, no additional rewards, no bonus items, no bonus gold. You're doing this harder mode because it's a way to make overworld enjoyable, that's your prize.

Nope. Veteran difficulty in dungeons doesgive better rewards - in that case, monster helm drops, and increased quality of all gear drops.

So it only stands to reason that vet overland should also have better rewards, in agreement with how the vet mode toggle works in existing vet content.

Major_Lag wrote: »

Wa2p wrote: »

But, no additional rewards, no bonus items, no bonus gold. You're doing this harder mode because it's a way to make overworld enjoyable, that's your prize.

Nope. Veteran difficulty in dungeons doesgive better rewards - in that case, monster helm drops, and increased quality of all gear drops.

So it only stands to reason that vet overland should also have better rewards, in agreement with how the vet mode toggle works in existing vet content.

so if we go down that reasoning trail. then we NEED 2 different queues for DLC vs regular dungeons since the difficulty difference is so stark and yet completion rewards are identical.

Linaleah wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

Wa2p wrote: »

But, no additional rewards, no bonus items, no bonus gold. You're doing this harder mode because it's a way to make overworld enjoyable, that's your prize.

Nope. Veteran difficulty in dungeons doesgive better rewards - in that case, monster helm drops, and increased quality of all gear drops.

So it only stands to reason that vet overland should also have better rewards, in agreement with how the vet mode toggle works in existing vet content.

so if we go down that reasoning trail. then we NEED 2 different queues for DLC vs regular dungeons since the difficulty difference is so stark and yet completion rewards are identical.

DLC dungeons are, by their nature, considerably harder content than the basegame (non-DLC) dungeons. To the degree that many basegame veteran dungeons are still considerably easier than the hardest normal DLC ones.

In part this is a result of the overall power creep, since the basegame dungeons were originally designed for much lower CP levels than the 810CP cap we have today.
Another part of the reason is that many powerful sets have been introduced since then, furthering the power creep issue.

But ultimately, what matters is that ZOS has decided that you are only entitled to the better rewards if you play the harder (veteran) version of the content.
With that in mind, I feel that this is a fair decision -, because the newer (and harder) DLC dungeons generally tend to have better rewards than the old basegame dungeons.

martygod12 wrote: »

Did you even read my original post? I said I don´t want the game harder for everyone just the OPTION for those who want more challenge

This the text of a later post by you that I was responding to:

Well I have read a lot of these suggestions on the previous threads, but It is a terrible suggestion I am sorry. Dumb youself down Is absolutelly not that same. Because you will always know that you are not playing at 100% just to have some challenge and trust me that way you will never have the feeling of challenge so it will not solve anything.

You have the power to make a character that can do whatever you want. Build a character to that goal.

This is an MMO, are you going to have a Boss that is strong for you but weak for another player who comes along? No way to make that work.

Or, as you suggest, a solo instance to you? Kind of defeats the MMO aspect. What if that other player has been waiting for help, do you just make them wait for someone else to come along? I could list many other reasons why this is not an effective idea.

The only other way is to make a Battle Spirit option that effectively nerfs you and your stats. I know that won't go over very well.

There is nothing the Devs can do in the framework of an MMO that will go over well with the player base. You are not the first to suggest this. Heck, these threads were out during release week 6 years ago when the overland content did have some teeth in it and no one was Vet Ranked yet.

So, that leaves the only thing that is in your control, your gear and CP allocations and the Rotation you choose to use. The Devs are not going to cater the game to you, so you need to adjust the game by adjusting your character.

Well you dont necessarily have to have the option change the difficulty of the entire overland zone but just the final boss in a solo instance as OP said so the hyped baddie at the end of a quest line concludes with an epic battle and not an anti climax of 2 hits and you are dead.

Props to Northern and Southern Elsewyr tho, the increase in final boss health did make it a bit more fun and less anti climax but this could definitely be improved upon.

Olauron wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

Wa2p wrote: »

But, no additional rewards, no bonus items, no bonus gold. You're doing this harder mode because it's a way to make overworld enjoyable, that's your prize.

Nope. Veteran difficulty in dungeons doesgive better rewards - in that case, monster helm drops, and increased quality of all gear drops.

So it only stands to reason that vet overland should also have better rewards, in agreement with how the vet mode toggle works in existing vet content.

This is the reason you don't deserve even an option. You want it not for challenge, you want it for better rewards to widen the gap even more. Power creep for the sake of power creep.

LMFAO

No, your reasoning is backwards: this is exactly the reason why there is both a normal and a veteran version of dungeons and trials.

Normal dungeons are intended for players who are less skilled, who can't (or don't want to) spare the time and effort to improve their abilities, or maybe they just want to experience the storyline and don't care about the veteran rewards.

Veteran dungeons, as their name implies, are intended for skilled players who find the normal difficulty too easy.
And the rewards from veteran content (specifically, the monster helms, which can't be obtained on Normal difficulty) are only relevant for participation in other veteran content.
All the normal content in the game can be completed without using any of the veteran-exclusive rewards.

The skill gap will always exist - even if you could give everyone access to a fully maxed endgame build right from the start of the game, some players will still significantly outperform others, purely because of the difference in player skill.

Silent99 wrote: »

Well you dont necessarily have to have the option change the difficulty of the entire overland zone but just the final boss in a solo instance as OP said so the hyped baddie at the end of a quest line concludes with an epic battle and not an anti climax of 2 hits and you are dead.

Props to Northern and Southern Elsewyr tho, the increase in final boss health did make it a bit more fun and less anti climax but this could definitely be improved upon.

Yes that is what I am talking about, most main quest bosses are already in solo instances so why at least here you cant select the difficulty you want? I mean it will no affect ANYONE besides you.

Major_Lag wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

Wa2p wrote: »

But, no additional rewards, no bonus items, no bonus gold. You're doing this harder mode because it's a way to make overworld enjoyable, that's your prize.

Nope. Veteran difficulty in dungeons doesgive better rewards - in that case, monster helm drops, and increased quality of all gear drops.

So it only stands to reason that vet overland should also have better rewards, in agreement with how the vet mode toggle works in existing vet content.

so if we go down that reasoning trail. then we NEED 2 different queues for DLC vs regular dungeons since the difficulty difference is so stark and yet completion rewards are identical.

DLC dungeons are, by their nature, considerably harder content than the basegame (non-DLC) dungeons. To the degree that many basegame veteran dungeons are still considerably easier than the hardest normal DLC ones.

In part this is a result of the overall power creep, since the basegame dungeons were originally designed for much lower CP levels than the 810CP cap we have today.
Another part of the reason is that many powerful sets have been introduced since then, furthering the power creep issue.

But ultimately, what matters is that ZOS has decided that you are only entitled to the better rewards if you play the harder (veteran) version of the content.
With that in mind, I feel that this is a fair decision -, because the newer (and harder) DLC dungeons generally tend to have better rewards than the old basegame dungeons.

except. when you queue up for a random dungeon? guess what it doesn't matter whether you get a DLC or regular. you get. the same. rewards. which was the point that apparently i was too subtle in making.

if we are going to talk about rewards being better based on difficulty? then dungeon queue needs to be adjusted as well. the usual refrain is "don't do a random then" well.. my refrain for the whole "make it harder with better rewards is" take off your gear and remove CP then.

and the thing is - I don't mind if higher difficulties give better rewards. but it needs to be implemented across the board then. because there are vet hardmode dungeon pledges that give 2 keys and come with pretty darn good monster/BIS sets for certain specs - that are SIGNIFICANTLY easier then many of the DLC dungeons ... on normal. NOT an exaggeration.

I don't know if you ever claimed that random dungeon is random dungeon and no changes are needed. but a LOT of people do. and a LOT of those people also tend to be the ones asking for harder overland... with better rewards. and it annoys me, this hypocrisy.