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Increase of Buff duration?
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The EQs, WoW, Rift, the all had longer buffs. Buffing with 2 or 3 abilities out of 10 (excluding ults) all of the time is just irritating. Oh you want a bit more crit for 20 ish seconds, hit a buff, oh you want a bit more damage too, well let's hit another button. Oh ya need armor too? Let's hit one more..Just to keep the fun going, come back in 30 seconds and do it all over again...isn't enough we have to sacrifice an ability slot for these?
I find it cringe-worthy when I see someone use WoW as an example of how ESO should be. I cannot speak to WQ or Rift but can say the example of WoW is pretty poor. First of all, the buffs from using those skills are pretty short, opposite of what OP is suggesting. Second, your rotation is what Blizzard says it should be and you have little choice if you want to do good damage.
These are the reasons why we play ESO and not WoW. We prefer the combat in ESO, not to forget the better storytelling.1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Increase duration of all Buffs in the gameZOS wants us to press less buttons/cast less skills..... yet our most essential skills (buffs, shields) were cut in duration to where you spend much more time micro-managing those than you do casting damage skills. Mainly for PvP ofc.Edited by Vaoh on April 12, 2020 10:25PM1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS wants us to press less buttons/cast less skills..... yet our most essential skills (buffs, shields) were cut in duration to where you spend much more time micro-managing those than you do casting damage skills. Mainly for PvP ofc.
The shield duration makes the most sense. They do increase the effective max health significantly and the current duration means one has to be more reactive and make the choice between being offensive or defensive vs just stacking it well ahead of needing it. It was just to easy to keep shields up full time with the original long duration.1 -
Starlight_Knight✭✭✭✭✭
✭Increase duration of all Buffs from skillsAs a magden in pvp i spend my whole live buffing up then breaking free, buffing up again, So god yes increase buffs!1 -
Curious_Death✭✭✭✭✭Increase duration of all Buffs in the gameactually in pvp defeated one is the one who didnt kept all this buffs up.. soo boooring2
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D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I disagree. I don't think buffs need a duration increase because skills do not fire off. Besides, there are potions that offer buffs as well. Im not trying to be rude btw.1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Increase duration of all Buffs in the gameZOS wants us to press less buttons/cast less skills..... yet our most essential skills (buffs, shields) were cut in duration to where you spend much more time micro-managing those than you do casting damage skills. Mainly for PvP ofc.
The shield duration makes the most sense. They do increase the effective max health significantly and the current duration means one has to be more reactive and make the choice between being offensive or defensive vs just stacking it well ahead of needing it. It was just to easy to keep shields up full time with the original long duration.
It makes sense from the viewpoint of standardizing buff durations (all the shields were nerfed not just annulment/conjured). They became harder to keep them up but ESO’s gameplay suffered..... it’s simply not fun to use them every 5-6 skill casts. It was a bad idea to nerf them and had no effect whatsoever on my combat effectiveness. Players like myself who were already able to 1vX very well didn’t feel nerfed because in actual fights, the shields break almost instantly.
The only difference it made for me in particular is that I couldn’t RP as well
I used to apply shields and then do praying/kneeling emotes in the center of Alessia Bridge. I became known for this after guarding the bridge for so long. Alot of enemies would stand around me, some would guard me, ofc there were lots who would attempt to gank me too. Shields -> emote -> reapply after 16 seconds was great. Shields -> emote -> reapply after 3 seconds made me quit this fun roleplaying. Preemptive shields to skilled players were just that - a safety precaution to stop gankers.... the duration nerf only ever hurt the already not-so-great Sorcs.
Ofc this was back when the game made more sense. Shields were unique in that they could not be crit but also had zero resistances, and only scaled from Max Mag. Shields had to be built for and at the same time you could build to deal more damage toward shields. Also the stronger the Sorc Shields, the easier the player was to oneshot when the shield dropped. PvP actually used to be fun and have tons of players back then. Rip
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Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Increase duration of all Buffs in the gameI admit everything needs a biff interms of duration it's already cringe inducing to have to reapply every buff in 6-30 secs for most love to see like 1-2min durations on most major ward, sorcery, brutality etc buffs as they mostly expire half way through a rotation and serve really no purpose but to *** us off as every time we get a rotation going 2 swings in gotta recast. Now damage shields id like maybe 10 secs instead of 6 as it is now seems like its expired as soon as the Animation finishes and the horrid server lag just makes these brief duration skills even more cringeworthy..1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS wants us to press less buttons/cast less skills..... yet our most essential skills (buffs, shields) were cut in duration to where you spend much more time micro-managing those than you do casting damage skills. Mainly for PvP ofc.
The shield duration makes the most sense. They do increase the effective max health significantly and the current duration means one has to be more reactive and make the choice between being offensive or defensive vs just stacking it well ahead of needing it. It was just to easy to keep shields up full time with the original long duration.
It makes sense from the viewpoint of standardizing buff durations (all the shields were nerfed not just annulment/conjured). They became harder to keep them up but ESO’s gameplay suffered..... it’s simply not fun to use them every 5-6 skill casts. It was a bad idea to nerf them and had no effect whatsoever on my combat effectiveness.
I disagree that gameplay suffered. First off, if you are refreshing the shield every 5-6 skill casts now but less often before, then you are merely doing it to have the added effective health constantly vs when you really need that shield. That in itself is was a problem that lead to lazy gameplay and is the reason Zos chose to shorten the duration. That added effective health is enormous and more so when shield stacking is considered. The shorter duration leads to more robust gameplay as you are using it when you need it just as a stamina player would use dodge.
Further, it makes no sense that you say it had no effect on combat effectiveness yet you are complaining that you have to refresh it every ~6 seconds.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »
@relentless_turnip
I suggest you read the question again. @Gilvoth clearly stated every game they played always had 2 hour or longer buffs for EVERY skill or buff available. We know that is not the case with WoW as WoW has some buffs that do not even last a minute.
Paladin's Divine Protection lasts only 10 seconds. Hands of Freedom lasts only 6 seconds
Time Warp lasts only 40 seconds with a 5 minute CD and the group cannot benefit from it again for 10 minutes.
There is more than that but it is clear that not all buffs in WoW from every skill and buff last 2 hours (or more).
Heck, ESO has buffs that last two hours. Even longer as there are food and drink buffs that can last longer than two hours when one has the provisioning passives and certain race passive they can last even longer.1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Increase duration of all Buffs in the gameZOS wants us to press less buttons/cast less skills..... yet our most essential skills (buffs, shields) were cut in duration to where you spend much more time micro-managing those than you do casting damage skills. Mainly for PvP ofc.
The shield duration makes the most sense. They do increase the effective max health significantly and the current duration means one has to be more reactive and make the choice between being offensive or defensive vs just stacking it well ahead of needing it. It was just to easy to keep shields up full time with the original long duration.
It makes sense from the viewpoint of standardizing buff durations (all the shields were nerfed not just annulment/conjured). They became harder to keep them up but ESO’s gameplay suffered..... it’s simply not fun to use them every 5-6 skill casts. It was a bad idea to nerf them and had no effect whatsoever on my combat effectiveness.
I disagree that gameplay suffered. First off, if you are refreshing the shield every 5-6 skill casts now but less often before, then you are merely doing it to have the added effective health constantly vs when you really need that shield. That in itself is was a problem that lead to lazy gameplay and is the reason Zos chose to shorten the duration. That added effective health is enormous and more so when shield stacking is considered. The shorter duration leads to more robust gameplay as you are using it when you need it just as a stamina player would use dodge.
Further, it makes no sense that you say it had no effect on combat effectiveness yet you are complaining that you have to refresh it every ~6 seconds.
Oh boy...... trust me you don’t want to listen to ZOS when it comes to “lazy” and “robust” gameplay in their patch notes lol. That logic gave us the Morrowind patch. So beautifully robust. They do not take into account having fun or unique gameplay.
The duration nerf is “balanced” on their spreadsheet, but in-game it had two effects:
• Preemptively casting shields (any Mag class) to avoid gankers was dead unless you wanna keep them up for your entire trip between keeps. Hence, a big indirect buff to ganking. Alert players casting a preemptive defense via a casted 20sec shield is far less lazy than ganking players on their horses who no longer have the defense to possibly survive a gank.
• Combat effectiveness was unchanged for good players (the nerf was pointless). Shields would not last more than 6 seconds anyway when under pressure. Enemies who wanted to wait out the duration are giving you that whole time to recover. It only hurt average players.
So yes, it doesn’t change combat effectiveness. You asked why I dislike it and my answer is that it forces the player into gameplay that isn’t as fun as it used to be..... plus it was pointless since good players were no weaker than before. The same way Morrowind sustain nerfs were “balanced” but not fun. The same way Major Expedition being nerfed to 4 seconds on a bunch of skills and Vicious Ophidian’s nerf for the sake of “balance” was not fun. It’s possible to be balanced without nerfing or standardizing everyone. Hope that makes sense.
Not arguing with you btw lol just giving my view on it. It’s not a nerf because the skill is overperforming, but rather a nerf to change the playstyle of people who were already having fun. Aka rip Blazing Shield builds.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS wants us to press less buttons/cast less skills..... yet our most essential skills (buffs, shields) were cut in duration to where you spend much more time micro-managing those than you do casting damage skills. Mainly for PvP ofc.
The shield duration makes the most sense. They do increase the effective max health significantly and the current duration means one has to be more reactive and make the choice between being offensive or defensive vs just stacking it well ahead of needing it. It was just to easy to keep shields up full time with the original long duration.
It makes sense from the viewpoint of standardizing buff durations (all the shields were nerfed not just annulment/conjured). They became harder to keep them up but ESO’s gameplay suffered..... it’s simply not fun to use them every 5-6 skill casts. It was a bad idea to nerf them and had no effect whatsoever on my combat effectiveness.
I disagree that gameplay suffered. First off, if you are refreshing the shield every 5-6 skill casts now but less often before, then you are merely doing it to have the added effective health constantly vs when you really need that shield. That in itself is was a problem that lead to lazy gameplay and is the reason Zos chose to shorten the duration. That added effective health is enormous and more so when shield stacking is considered. The shorter duration leads to more robust gameplay as you are using it when you need it just as a stamina player would use dodge.
Further, it makes no sense that you say it had no effect on combat effectiveness yet you are complaining that you have to refresh it every ~6 seconds.
Oh boy...... trust me you don’t want to listen to ZOS when it comes to “lazy” and “robust” gameplay in their patch notes lol.
That was me calling it lazy gameplay. I do not recall Zos trying to put it that way.
If we are only refreshing it every 20-30 seconds or if we happen to take some damage then we might as well just get rid of the shield and add more max health to the game because the shield mechanic itself was trivial. People were stacking 2 and 3 shields, creating very large pools of effective health, and not having to think about it.
It is absurd for such a powerful defensive tool to be as easy and mindless as it was. Heck, I knew players that were not very good but were able to survive multiple attackers because of the shields. That is not skillful playing by any means.
As for your comments about gankers, I cannot recall the last time a ganker actually killed me. I have ended up low health but not dead most of the time. idk, maybe I took better routes that avoided the rare decent ganker. Why should a magicka character be able to stack such large pools of effective health for long durations when mounted compared to what a stem character has?
Stamina builds require skillful playing to avoid the damage shields provide. 20-30 second shield life does not require skillful playing and your example of being able to pretty much ride between keeps with all that extra effective health makes that point very clear.
I am just giving my point of view as well. My point of view as someone who mostly plays magicka characters, but does have some stam.
Anyone reading this post can look above to see the rest of Vaoh's comments.0 -
Soris✭✭✭✭✭
✭Increase duration of all Buffs in the gameThe EQs, WoW, Rift, the all had longer buffs. Buffing with 2 or 3 abilities out of 10 (excluding ults) all of the time is just irritating. Oh you want a bit more crit for 20 ish seconds, hit a buff, oh you want a bit more damage too, well let's hit another button. Oh ya need armor too? Let's hit one more..Just to keep the fun going, come back in 30 seconds and do it all over again...isn't enough we have to sacrifice an ability slot for these?
Reading this in Ross Geller's voice, oh man
Very true thoughWelkynd [Templar/AD/EU]2 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »
@relentless_turnip
I suggest you read the question again. @Gilvoth clearly stated every game they played always had 2 hour or longer buffs for EVERY skill or buff available. We know that is not the case with WoW as WoW has some buffs that do not even last a minute.
Paladin's Divine Protection lasts only 10 seconds. Hands of Freedom lasts only 6 seconds
Time Warp lasts only 40 seconds with a 5 minute CD and the group cannot benefit from it again for 10 minutes.
There is more than that but it is clear that not all buffs in WoW from every skill and buff last 2 hours (or more).
Heck, ESO has buffs that last two hours. Even longer as there are food and drink buffs that can last longer than two hours when one has the provisioning passives and certain race passive they can last even longer.
I don't agree with op's suggestion on any level. You asked for an example and I provided one. I didn't claim it was every buff, I said "WOW has 2 hour long buffs".
I haven't played WOW since the noughties 😂
As I remember there are 2 hour long buffs that give you a similar effect to major sorcery/brutality. Yes food buffs are 2 hours long and mundus is a permanent buff.
I love the combat in this game... When it works and enjoy buff management being part of resource management. As I stated earlier in this thread👍 OP just needs to get used to the rhythm of this I imagine.
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eKsDee✭✭✭✭✭Only certain buffs need duration increases, I feel. The minimum buffs should be balanced around is ~15 seconds -- the stronger the buff, the shorter the duration; the weaker the buff, the longer the duration.0 -
ScardyFox✭✭✭✭✭Increase duration of all Buffs in the gameYes, most of the buffs should be extended. Its just stupid at this point.1 -
BackStabeth✭✭✭✭✭They had the brilliant idea of reducing most buffs a few patches ago for the sake of making the game tedious and repetitive. Now in pvp you spend 50% of the time rebuffing. Fun gameplay is fun...
I am not good with extending buffs, so many people work very hard to collect all the junk they need to make drinks and foods, it would kill that market. If that market is killed, then the resource market will be negatively affected. The game economy is a delicate thing, you increase buff duration you affect the economy in a negative way, less people with less gold buy less stuff from guild vendors and the vicious cycle is created in a downhill trend.
No
Would I would like to see however is an automated way you can use buff food and drinks so that you didn't have to keep them on your quickbar or use an addon to remind you that something is running out or needing to have icons on your hud so you know when they run out. All that is just not necessary and could be easily fixed by simply allowing buff food and drinks auto consumed.0 -
Tranquilizer✭✭✭✭Increase duration of all Buffs in the gameZOS is always babbling about raising the floor and lowering the ceiling, but everything they did in the last patches hurt the low- and averaged skilled players more than the high-skilled, widening the skill gap even more.
The decreased buff-times is one of these changes. While high-skilled player have zero to low problems implementing the lowered buff times into their rotations it made gameplay for the low and average skilled player more hectic, resulting in decreased uptime of the buffs and therefor lower damage.
As some other people pointed out, 30-40 seconds for the major buffs would be great, also the duration of shield buffs should be extended, shields should be stronger, but then there should be only one shield at a time active allowed.
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Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
✭
OP's poll concerns mostly (exclusively?) buffs derived from casting abilities and set procs - which tend to have rather short durations ranging from a couple of seconds to a few minutes at most.BackStabeth wrote: »They had the brilliant idea of reducing most buffs a few patches ago for the sake of making the game tedious and repetitive. Now in pvp you spend 50% of the time rebuffing. Fun gameplay is fun...
I am not good with extending buffs, so many people work very hard to collect all the junk they need to make drinks and foods, it would kill that market. If that market is killed, then the resource market will be negatively affected. The game economy is a delicate thing, you increase buff duration you affect the economy in a negative way, less people with less gold buy less stuff from guild vendors and the vicious cycle is created in a downhill trend.
Hardly anyone complains about the duration of food buffs, which are already very long on most foods and don't need to be buffed any further.
That would be nice as a QoL improvement, but I'm not sure if it's even possible with the current addon API.BackStabeth wrote: »Would I would like to see however is an automated way you can use buff food and drinks so that you didn't have to keep them on your quickbar or use an addon to remind you that something is running out or needing to have icons on your hud so you know when they run out. All that is just not necessary and could be easily fixed by simply allowing buff food and drinks auto consumed.
I do know that it's not possible for addons to activate potions (or any quickslot items in general) due to API limitations, intentionally put in place by ZOS to prevent abuse. Not sure if this also affects activating food/drink buff items, though.0 -
Dillpat✭✭✭How about no.. buffs are fine as they are and arn't what needs to be addressed for a this game to get better.@Dillpaat PC EU/NA
Just a laggy memer
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXwr2YeTb0aQXEI99RfwQsg?view_as=subscriber?&ab_channel=DILLPAAT2 -
caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭[snip] Pretty biased poll with almost no explanation why and no counterparts.
Buffs are already long enough, cast them and you can spend almost 30 seconds on the offensive side. What do you want with longer buffs? Spend all eternity on the offensive side and never have to take care of the defensive mechanics except some burst heals?
[edited for trolling]Edited by ZOS_FalcoYamaoka on April 13, 2020 2:15PM1 -
jadarock✭✭✭✭✭Where is they leave it as is l2p option?
And No this is where some semblance of skill is in game leave it alone.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »relentless_turnip wrote: »
@relentless_turnip
I suggest you read the question again. @Gilvoth clearly stated every game they played always had 2 hour or longer buffs for EVERY skill or buff available. We know that is not the case with WoW as WoW has some buffs that do not even last a minute.
Paladin's Divine Protection lasts only 10 seconds. Hands of Freedom lasts only 6 seconds
Time Warp lasts only 40 seconds with a 5 minute CD and the group cannot benefit from it again for 10 minutes.
There is more than that but it is clear that not all buffs in WoW from every skill and buff last 2 hours (or more).
Heck, ESO has buffs that last two hours. Even longer as there are food and drink buffs that can last longer than two hours when one has the provisioning passives and certain race passive they can last even longer.
I don't agree with op's suggestion on any level. You asked for an example and I provided one. I didn't claim it was every buff, I said "WOW has 2 hour long buffs".
I haven't played WOW since the noughties 😂
As I remember there are 2 hour long buffs that give you a similar effect to major sorcery/brutality. Yes food buffs are 2 hours long and mundus is a permanent buff.
I love the combat in this game... When it works and enjoy buff management being part of resource management. As I stated earlier in this thread👍 OP just needs to get used to the rhythm of this I imagine.
I merely pointed out your answer was not correct. I factually pointed out how it could not possibly be one of the games Gilvoth was referring to if their information was accurate.
Of course, they have yet to reply to my question so it will be interesting to see what games they have played that fit that bill. They get tagged every time you or I respond to this string of conversation.0 -
Mortiis13✭✭✭✭Increase duration of all Buffs from skillsWhere is they leave it as is l2p option?
And No this is where some semblance of skill is in game leave it alone.
Forgot to add, did poll on my phone, accidentally post it before I could add; leave it as it is.
Ignore the poll, it's useless, but keep up arguing, I stated my opinion before, would like to see em increased to 30 seconds (leave debuffs as they are, shields are fine).
And I personally don't have issues with it, but buffing up is the less funniest thing of the combat in my opinion. Also it would decrease skill gap by a small number (zos want to reduce it) without any of those game-breaking changes to light and heavy attack.
Or Maybe it could also be introduce that non class skills that buffs are increased to 30-40 seconds, class skill buffs should stay 20 sec, but with a secound minor effect (major ward + minor ward 20 sec, or only major ward with 40 seconds duration) so player can still min/ max or take the comfortable way with a little disadvantage
(time u don't need to rebuff is a huge buff by itself in my opinion, so numbers are only for showcases)Edited by Mortiis13 on April 13, 2020 1:14PM0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Increase duration of all Buffs in the gameIf they want to take real steps to address what some call the "skill gap" this is a surefire way to do it.1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They had the brilliant idea of reducing most buffs a few patches ago for the sake of making the game tedious and repetitive. Now in pvp you spend 50% of the time rebuffing. Fun gameplay is fun...
Yeah and I would be for increasing duration of some buffs, but not a broad stroke to say all buffs or no buffs. Maybe not even increase the duration, but 4 or even 5 buffs to activate is a bit much on 10 bar slots total. Or I'd get rid of the buffs quite a bit as far as being able to have so many just up all the time.1 -
Mortiis13✭✭✭✭Increase duration of all Buffs from skillsThis poll looks like
1. Yes
2. Definitely
3. Absolutely
pushed a wrong button before I could add a "disagree option", ffs=fat finger syndrome, sry man. Ignore poll, I f... It up, I know thx. So.. , let us hear your opinion. discuss with us.
Am I Wright u disagree with a change? Why?
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D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS wants us to press less buttons/cast less skills..... yet our most essential skills (buffs, shields) were cut in duration to where you spend much more time micro-managing those than you do casting damage skills. Mainly for PvP ofc.
The shield duration makes the most sense. They do increase the effective max health significantly and the current duration means one has to be more reactive and make the choice between being offensive or defensive vs just stacking it well ahead of needing it. It was just to easy to keep shields up full time with the original long duration.
It makes sense from the viewpoint of standardizing buff durations (all the shields were nerfed not just annulment/conjured). They became harder to keep them up but ESO’s gameplay suffered..... it’s simply not fun to use them every 5-6 skill casts. It was a bad idea to nerf them and had no effect whatsoever on my combat effectiveness.
I disagree that gameplay suffered. First off, if you are refreshing the shield every 5-6 skill casts now but less often before, then you are merely doing it to have the added effective health constantly vs when you really need that shield. That in itself is was a problem that lead to lazy gameplay and is the reason Zos chose to shorten the duration. That added effective health is enormous and more so when shield stacking is considered. The shorter duration leads to more robust gameplay as you are using it when you need it just as a stamina player would use dodge.
Further, it makes no sense that you say it had no effect on combat effectiveness yet you are complaining that you have to refresh it every ~6 seconds.
Oh boy...... trust me you don’t want to listen to ZOS when it comes to “lazy” and “robust” gameplay in their patch notes lol.
That was me calling it lazy gameplay. I do not recall Zos trying to put it that way.
If we are only refreshing it every 20-30 seconds or if we happen to take some damage then we might as well just get rid of the shield and add more max health to the game because the shield mechanic itself was trivial. People were stacking 2 and 3 shields, creating very large pools of effective health, and not having to think about it.
It is absurd for such a powerful defensive tool to be as easy and mindless as it was. Heck, I knew players that were not very good but were able to survive multiple attackers because of the shields. That is not skillful playing by any means.
As for your comments about gankers, I cannot recall the last time a ganker actually killed me. I have ended up low health but not dead most of the time. idk, maybe I took better routes that avoided the rare decent ganker. Why should a magicka character be able to stack such large pools of effective health for long durations when mounted compared to what a stem character has?
Stamina builds require skillful playing to avoid the damage shields provide. 20-30 second shield life does not require skillful playing and your example of being able to pretty much ride between keeps with all that extra effective health makes that point very clear.
I am just giving my point of view as well. My point of view as someone who mostly plays magicka characters, but does have some stam.
Anyone reading this post can look above to see the rest of Vaoh's comments.
Technically we also have Ayleid wells and Nirncrux mine buffs, but they're so insignifigant that no one really uses them, and one is only used in Craglorn Overland.
We alao have the Urns in Unhallowed as well. They're not combat activated, but they're similar to very long buffs.1