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The "Nightblades nerf" whining logic makes absolute no sense to me.
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Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
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I think you are missing one important part. No one here is saying it will be better or superior to cloak. That would be even more ridiculous. In most cases Cloak will be better. But this vampire passive in some cases may preform equally good as cloak.Can you please tell me scenarios where you think that this passive be do similar things than NB but better ?
Some areas where it will be good:
- Going as an invisible group through an opening in keep wall (basically, superior at group play vs cloak).
- Ganking. Any class will be able to buff-up, sprint to the target (while invisible) and attack them. Since you can sprint with your weapon equipped, the delay between stopping to sprint and casting instant skill is like.... there is almost none (you can try that on live server and see for yourself).
- Bombing. Same as above. You will be basically able buff-up, sprint towards group of people and pop-up destro-ulti.
- On sorc you will be able to streak away and sprint & go invisible (no need to use invisibility pots).
I do think that in majority of cases, it will be use offensively (as an opener, to ambush targets from stealth / invisibility) and not defensively. So basically any class will be able to play NB style, but better, since they are not build around stealth gameplay and are not squishy AF.
So this passive itself is not batter than cloak. But when combined with other non-nb class toolkit it will most likely outperform NB with cloak.
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Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
I think you are missing one important part. No one here is saying it will be better or superior to cloak. That would be even more ridiculous. In most cases Cloak will be better. But this vampire passive in some cases may preform equally good as cloak.Can you please tell me scenarios where you think that this passive be do similar things than NB but better ?
Some areas where it will be good:
- Going as an invisible group through an opening in keep wall (basically, superior at group play vs cloak).
- Ganking. Any class will be able to buff-up, sprint to the target (while invisible) and attack them. Since you can sprint with your weapon equipped, the delay between stopping to sprint and casting instant skill is like.... there is almost none (you can try that on live server and see for yourself).
- Bombing. Same as above. You will be basically able buff-up, sprint towards group of people and pop-up destro-ulti.
- On sorc you will be able to streak away and sprint & go invisible (no need to use invisibility pots).
I do think that in majority of cases, it will be use offensively (as an opener, to ambush targets from stealth / invisibility) and not defensively. So basically any class will be able to play NB style, but better, since they are not build around stealth gameplay and are not squishy AF.
So this passive itself is not batter than cloak. But when combined with other non-nb class toolkit it will most likely outperform NB with cloak.
You completly forgot about reaveal mechanics.
There is AoE/siege everywhere on an openbreach, you wont go there without being reveal. Same for bombing, if people don't have any AoE on the ground while being immobile, they deserve to die for sure.
Ganking is not about using one skill from melee. It's about to preparing your combot from stealth (snipe cast, dizing swing cast, incap cast, dawnbreaker cast) and getting the stun that goes with it to surpise the ennemy. Since you aren't invisible when you open with UM, you don't get the stun that give you the main advantage, and the usual gank tools have cast time, so stop sprinting, cast time it everyone noticed you.
It will not outperform NB with cloak since it doesn't allow you to do the things that cloak allow to.
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Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
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No, I'm just not trying to give anyone any ideas. (Although it wasn't particularly difficult to come up with these, so I imagine it's likely you'll be seeing them on day one when the patch goes live.)
You keep saying this, but you're wrong. Why do you think they also added the Strikes from the Shadows passive? In fact, if I ever used this on a non-NB toon, it would be utilized far more often for offense than defense.This is an escape passive, this has nothing to do with COMBAT.
Yes, I know.You will not be invisible in a middle of fight at will like an NB while not being a NB.
Yes, but if that's all you're going to use it for then you're not going to be using the skill to it's full potential.You will be able to escape more reliably when before you was already trying to escape.
Nope.🤫Can you please tell me scenarios where you think that this passive be do similar things than NB but better ?
OK so you don't have any exemple to give where it would be OP while telling me I mess things.
Thats sound like you don't know one and just want it nerfed for no reasons.
As far as "wanting it nerfed," to be honest the vampire changes won't negatively affect my build at all & my playstyle will be the least affected by other classes having invisibility, if it's even affected at all. The only thing I'd want "nerfed" is the increased skill cost, but since I can now get away with stage 1 that won't even be an issue.
All I really care about is whether or not ZOS brings NBs up to par with the other classes. If NBs get no love this patch, I'll probably be looking for a different game to play.2 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »This is an escape passive, this has nothing to do with COMBAT.
You will not be invisible in a middle of fight at will like an NB while not being a NB.
You will be able to escape more reliably when before you was already trying to escape.
Can you please tell me scenarios where you think that this passive be do similar things than NB but better ?
From what I see, that's the primary use of cloak for NBs, that's the gist. Cloak's not much use in actual combat; you gank from stealth (but you can stealth without cloak), but you don't use cloak mid-fight for any meaningful purposes, other than to escape and reset the fight. Not much other practical use for it in combat, more so that if you don't use it to disengage, any funny look will pull you out of it. So NB cloak is primarily a reset tool, and that's what new vampire cloak is doing too, basically giving NB tool to other classes.
You never fough a good NB so.
Cloak is a defensive and offensive tool. No one with a half brain die on the 1th opening.
The goal of a NB is to constently burst opening you until you make an error or have not enough HP to survive the next combo.
Dying to the first opening combo is a low CP half brain people thing. Bad NB tend to reset completly the fight where good NB keep the pressure on the boi.
Edited by Aedaryl on April 10, 2020 11:23AM0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
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No, I'm just not trying to give anyone any ideas. (Although it wasn't particularly difficult to come up with these, so I imagine it's likely you'll be seeing them on day one when the patch goes live.)
You keep saying this, but you're wrong. Why do you think they also added the Strikes from the Shadows passive? In fact, if I ever used this on a non-NB toon, it would be utilized far more often for offense than defense.This is an escape passive, this has nothing to do with COMBAT.
Yes, I know.You will not be invisible in a middle of fight at will like an NB while not being a NB.
Yes, but if that's all you're going to use it for then you're not going to be using the skill to it's full potential.You will be able to escape more reliably when before you was already trying to escape.
Nope.🤫Can you please tell me scenarios where you think that this passive be do similar things than NB but better ?
OK so you don't have any exemple to give where it would be OP while telling me I mess things.
Thats sound like you don't know one and just want it nerfed for no reasons.
As far as "wanting it nerfed," to be honest the vampire changes won't negatively affect my build at all & my playstyle will be the least affected by other classes having invisibility, if it's even affected at all. The only thing I'd want "nerfed" is the increased skill cost, but since I can now get away with stage 1 that won't even be an issue.
All I really care about is whether or not ZOS brings NBs up to par with the other classes. If NBs get no love this patch, I'll probably be looking for a different game to play.
So you just explained yourself while "keeping it secret" is stupid : easy to thing about and will be see on day 1.
If you have real argument prooving it OP, don't make it go live by keeping it "secret", tell it so people can figure out to balance it. This is counter productive if not1 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »This is an escape passive, this has nothing to do with COMBAT.
You will not be invisible in a middle of fight at will like an NB while not being a NB.
You will be able to escape more reliably when before you was already trying to escape.
Can you please tell me scenarios where you think that this passive be do similar things than NB but better ?
From what I see, that's the primary use of cloak for NBs, that's the gist. Cloak's not much use in actual combat; you gank from stealth (but you can stealth without cloak), but you don't use cloak mid-fight for any meaningful purposes, other than to escape and reset the fight. Not much other practical use for it in combat, more so that if you don't use it to disengage, any funny look will pull you out of it. So NB cloak is primarily a reset tool, and that's what new vampire cloak is doing too, basically giving NB tool to other classes.
You never though a good NB so.
Cloak is a defensive and offensive tool. No one with a half brain die on the 1th opening.
The goal of a NB is to constently burst opening you until you make an error or have not enough HP to survive the next combo.
Dying to the first opening combo is a low CP half brain people thing. Bad NB tend to reset completly the fight where good NB keep the pressure on the boi.
Point in case, nobody with half a brain will let NB keep stay in the fight and keep using cloak. That "good NB" strategy you're talking about won't work on people with marginally higher number of brain cells, because there'll be AoEs, there'll be reveal pots, flare, magelight, you name it. So when it comes to keeping up the pressure, cloak isn't your tool.1 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
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Oh, ok.
No, I'm just not trying to give anyone any ideas. (Although it wasn't particularly difficult to come up with these, so I imagine it's likely you'll be seeing them on day one when the patch goes live.)
You keep saying this, but you're wrong. Why do you think they also added the Strikes from the Shadows passive? In fact, if I ever used this on a non-NB toon, it would be utilized far more often for offense than defense.This is an escape passive, this has nothing to do with COMBAT.
Yes, I know.You will not be invisible in a middle of fight at will like an NB while not being a NB.
Yes, but if that's all you're going to use it for then you're not going to be using the skill to it's full potential.You will be able to escape more reliably when before you was already trying to escape.
Nope.🤫Can you please tell me scenarios where you think that this passive be do similar things than NB but better ?
OK so you don't have any exemple to give where it would be OP while telling me I mess things.
Thats sound like you don't know one and just want it nerfed for no reasons.
As far as "wanting it nerfed," to be honest the vampire changes won't negatively affect my build at all & my playstyle will be the least affected by other classes having invisibility, if it's even affected at all. The only thing I'd want "nerfed" is the increased skill cost, but since I can now get away with stage 1 that won't even be an issue.
All I really care about is whether or not ZOS brings NBs up to par with the other classes. If NBs get no love this patch, I'll probably be looking for a different game to play.
So you just explained yourself while "keeping it secret" is stupid : easy to thing about and will be see on day 1.
If you have real argument prooving it OP, don't make it go live by keeping it "secret", tell it so people can figure out to balance it. This is counter productive if notEdited by Langeston on April 10, 2020 11:29AM0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »This is an escape passive, this has nothing to do with COMBAT.
You will not be invisible in a middle of fight at will like an NB while not being a NB.
You will be able to escape more reliably when before you was already trying to escape.
Can you please tell me scenarios where you think that this passive be do similar things than NB but better ?
From what I see, that's the primary use of cloak for NBs, that's the gist. Cloak's not much use in actual combat; you gank from stealth (but you can stealth without cloak), but you don't use cloak mid-fight for any meaningful purposes, other than to escape and reset the fight. Not much other practical use for it in combat, more so that if you don't use it to disengage, any funny look will pull you out of it. So NB cloak is primarily a reset tool, and that's what new vampire cloak is doing too, basically giving NB tool to other classes.
You never though a good NB so.
Cloak is a defensive and offensive tool. No one with a half brain die on the 1th opening.
The goal of a NB is to constently burst opening you until you make an error or have not enough HP to survive the next combo.
Dying to the first opening combo is a low CP half brain people thing. Bad NB tend to reset completly the fight where good NB keep the pressure on the boi.
Point in case, nobody with half a brain will let NB keep stay in the fight and keep using cloak. That "good NB" strategy you're talking about won't work on people with marginally higher number of brain cells, because there'll be AoEs, there'll be reveal pots, flare, magelight, you name it. So when it comes to keeping up the pressure, cloak isn't your tool.
Boi have u ever fight a good NB really ?
HWO half good enough use magelight, flare and several AOE ? Good NB don't get reaveal easely, that's the point.1 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Boi have u ever fight a good NB really ?
HWO half good enough use magelight, flare and several AOE ? Good NB don't get reaveal easely, that's the point.
That was a funny one on your part, I appreciate the good humor.
Last couple of patches, they don't even get cloaked easily. And 'boi' hints me that you're out of arguments. Could've said so. 3 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Boi have u ever fight a good NB really ?
HWO half good enough use magelight, flare and several AOE ? Good NB don't get reaveal easely, that's the point.
That was a funny one on your part, I appreciate the good humor. Last couple of patches, they don't even get cloaked easily. And 'boi' hints me that you're out of arguments. Could've said so.
Go on YouTube and search stamNB 1vX, you will descover that stamNB is not about ganking people and if it fail cast cloak to go back 40m and do it again. You will also descover that NB can dodge will a bow for having speed buff. You will also discover a skill called shadow Image.
And you will also discover that when you get revealed you should not cast cloak right again by following the same direction.
I also have an other tips for you : using left and right click at the same time allow you to break free.0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
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You sound like you are still stuck in 1.6 update...John_Falstaff wrote: »Boi have u ever fight a good NB really ?
HWO half good enough use magelight, flare and several AOE ? Good NB don't get reaveal easely, that's the point.
That was a funny one on your part, I appreciate the good humor. Last couple of patches, they don't even get cloaked easily. And 'boi' hints me that you're out of arguments. Could've said so.
Go on YouTube and search stamNB 1vX, you will descover that stamNB is not about ganking people and if it fail cast cloak to go back 40m and do it again. You will also descover that NB can dodge will a bow for having speed buff. You will also discover a skill called shadow Image.
And you will also discover that when you get revealed you should not cast cloak right again by following the same direction.
I also have an other tips for you : using left and right click at the same time allow you to break free.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on April 10, 2020 11:54AM5 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
You sound like you are still stuck in 1.6 update...John_Falstaff wrote: »Boi have u ever fight a good NB really ?
HWO half good enough use magelight, flare and several AOE ? Good NB don't get reaveal easely, that's the point.
That was a funny one on your part, I appreciate the good humor. Last couple of patches, they don't even get cloaked easily. And 'boi' hints me that you're out of arguments. Could've said so.
Go on YouTube and search stamNB 1vX, you will descover that stamNB is not about ganking people and if it fail cast cloak to go back 40m and do it again. You will also descover that NB can dodge will a bow for having speed buff. You will also discover a skill called shadow Image.
And you will also discover that when you get revealed you should not cast cloak right again by following the same direction.
I also have an other tips for you : using left and right click at the same time allow you to break free.
Nope, stamNB not being good in this meta has nothing to do with a good playstyle1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My problem with NB outside of ganking, is not really the nerfs they have had so much; but when I play it compared to other stam; it's just the little things and they need to be careful at how they address them, but they do need to be addressed. A lot of NBs are focused on ganking and do not want to give up disappearing while also wanting to be able to fight like everyone else, and that may be a reasonable request if being vamps suddenly give every class the ability to disappear (and I absolutely hate it)
The reach on surprise attack compared to dizzy is noticeable; especially if you are trying to fight anyone speedy. Ambush then has a slight delay that makes this even more noticeable.
I also feel the spammable being so much less damage than dizzy swing I assume because it is instant to not make as much sense anymore given the GCD and .8 second cast time. It is more comparable in damage to the other class spammables that have been added and are considered garbage because of the dodgeable nature but those are also ranged.
Another thing is the top classes have delayed burst with the exception of DKs who instead have the last decent DOT damage and pressure. NBs really have neither. The bow proc has to be activated and why that extra second doesn't seem like much; that's all it takes in a meta where healing to full happens, and defile should have stayed on both NB ultimate to help with that.
I realize they felt abilities were overloaded and moved major fracture and breach to mark but that's yet again another GCD with no other purpose adding to the slowness of attempted burst and the extra benefit largely just to detect stealthed enemies or giving a buff AFTER the kill but its a big warning sign with the dark beam which is really counter-intuitive if the class is supposed to be discrete.
Its just little things. I really want to play my NB more and I like how it is single target focused mostly, but I can feel it being gimped from my other classes just enough to be annoying. Unless I just play the scouting role and gank when I get a great opportunity.
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Curious_Death✭✭✭✭✭Well, it’s not that strong. Usually people who complain about NBs have less experience and think it’s the class that beat them when it’s the player. The overwhelming majority of pvpers are stam and magsorcs so it skews popular opinion a lot. They’ve been the strongest classes for a while and whenever one of the other classes gets close it spawns a bunch of complaint threads because they’re used to their class carrying them.
Basicly sorcs and stam all tell each other how bad they have it and reinforce each other, despite being stronger.
Is this a nerf sorc thread ? Sorc in not at the top of the meta, it's just in a good spot.
Stamcro is above everything, other stam classes and magsorc/plar/dk does well and then you have the bottom 3 (magnecro/den/NB).
Going back to the thread
There is no reason to think that the new vampire skill line is a NB indirect nerf.
If dark stalker is what a stamblade really want, he can have the buffed version of it at vampire stage 1.
The new vampire is basically a magblade buff line, which was much needed.
u forgot about stamplar ... spear>jab jab jab>spear>jab jab jab>cleansing+spear>jab jab jab
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Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Curious_Death wrote: »Well, it’s not that strong. Usually people who complain about NBs have less experience and think it’s the class that beat them when it’s the player. The overwhelming majority of pvpers are stam and magsorcs so it skews popular opinion a lot. They’ve been the strongest classes for a while and whenever one of the other classes gets close it spawns a bunch of complaint threads because they’re used to their class carrying them.
Basicly sorcs and stam all tell each other how bad they have it and reinforce each other, despite being stronger.
Is this a nerf sorc thread ? Sorc in not at the top of the meta, it's just in a good spot.
Stamcro is above everything, other stam classes and magsorc/plar/dk does well and then you have the bottom 3 (magnecro/den/NB).
Going back to the thread
There is no reason to think that the new vampire skill line is a NB indirect nerf.
If dark stalker is what a stamblade really want, he can have the buffed version of it at vampire stage 1.
The new vampire is basically a magblade buff line, which was much needed.
u forgot about stamplar ... spear>jab jab jab>spear>jab jab jab>cleansing+spear>jab jab jab
That only works against NBs. It’s still hilarious that it does though, I’ll sweeps spam to kill one just because I think it’s funny.
Sometimes against new stam players too. The battle of the one button: dizzy vs sweeps!Edited by Iskiab on April 10, 2020 4:27PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2 -
kaithuzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭A year or two ago, NB is by far the most OP class, in both their mag and stam version, in both PvE and PvP.
People at the time asked for a NB nerf. The NBs main, of course, disagree, and ask to buff the other classes instead.
In the last 4 patches or so, ZOS added an AOE stun for all classes, gave stamSorc (which was one of the most boring class at the time) a mechanic similar to NB Grim focus, and now ZOS is going to give everyone the ability to go invisible through the new vampire skill line (which has already been possible with potion).
And now I keep stumble upon NB mains complaining their lack of "identity" and "NB receiving indirect nerfs" and "ZOS should buff NB soon, the class is like an underdog now".
I just don't get it. Seriously, what kind of logic is this.
PS: To the "NB mains" out there, the class is still hella strong, especially in PvP for both mag and stam version.
What you don’t understand is that ZOS did buff other classes BUT they ALSO nerfed nightblade.
And broke the game 6 ways from SundayMember of:
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Just Chill - Crown's house
GoldCloaks - Durruthy test server penga
Small Meme Guild - Mano's house
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Deviance - Leonard's senche tiger
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Arcance Council - Klytz Kommander
World Boss - Mike & Chewy gone EP
M12 (majestic twelve) - cult of the loli zerg1 -
kaithuzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭MashmalloMan wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
It is a buff for every class - if you are a vampire. NB will actually benefit the lest out of it.xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »All this doom and gloom, lol
The new vampy skill-line is a buff to NBs
The main issue is with the games performance. Without that, PvP is less then meh....
So, while you are not wrong by saying that "The new vampy skill-line is a buff to NBs" - but it is also a buff for literally every other class that will have more benefit than NB class. In short it is a small buff for NB, but a HUGE buff for every other class.
Oh and btw. NB is alredy worst class in game - both mag & stam...
That is a ridiculous statement. How in the world will the stealth class benefit less from a skill line that includes buffs to stealth playstyle? Get out of here.Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »did they ever say how long it takes of sprinting to go invisible? could be 5 secs plus
I heard 8. There are no specifics to what they’ve released. Just people who tried getting a look at tooltips from people’s videos. If it’s 8 it’s a gimmick and unworkable, 5 is niche, 3’s probably usable.
3 seconds according to:
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Vampire+SkillsWhile you are at Vampire Stage 4
Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.
If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.
3 Seconds... Damn, that actually makes this basically a free cloak available on demand for every class with like no cost, casting that consumes global cool-down and there is no need to slot it...
@iCaliban you're missing this part too ^
Stage 4 vamp + Sprinting for 3 seconds straight =/= "Free cloak, on demand, no cost and no casting that consumes GCD"
If you think NB's would ever unslot an actual on demand Cloak, then you're gravely mistaken. It doesn't require an ability to cast, it doesn't mean you're not wasting a GCD... you have to sprint for 3 seconds straight. Thats wasting 3 GCD's... We also don't understand how the passive works, does damage interupt it? Will the 3 seconds stay? The numbers are still a work in progress.
If base cloak is superior, then its not a nb nerf. The damage buffs to vamp, something a great many NBs run, disproportionately buffs them. Which is mostly a good thing.
Biggest problem for mag blade besides damage is burst healing. The vamp rework gives them both.
IMO the statement about “vamp is something many nightblades currently run” is completely incorrect. It may have been correct for parts of the first 4 years of the game but hasn’t been for at least the last 2.
Pick your poison & go into Cyrodiil or BG’s & enjoy eating 4 dawn breakers to the face a few times & see if you don’t drop that mess!
If that’s not bad enough think about tanks using turn undead or bow users pre-buffing with expert hunter....GGMember of:
Fantasia - osh kosh b-josh
Just Chill - Crown's house
GoldCloaks - Durruthy test server penga
Small Meme Guild - Mano's house
Former member of:
Legend - Siffer fan boy club
TKO (tamriel knight's order) - free bks
Deviance - Leonard's senche tiger
Purple - hamNchz is my hero
Eight Divines - myrlifax stop playing final fantasy
WKB (we kill bosses) - turd where you go?
Arcance Council - Klytz Kommander
World Boss - Mike & Chewy gone EP
M12 (majestic twelve) - cult of the loli zerg1 -
kaithuzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »This is an escape passive, this has nothing to do with COMBAT.
You will not be invisible in a middle of fight at will like an NB while not being a NB.
You will be able to escape more reliably when before you was already trying to escape.
Can you please tell me scenarios where you think that this passive be do similar things than NB but better ?
From what I see, that's the primary use of cloak for NBs, that's the gist. Cloak's not much use in actual combat; you gank from stealth (but you can stealth without cloak), but you don't use cloak mid-fight for any meaningful purposes, other than to escape and reset the fight. Not much other practical use for it in combat, more so that if you don't use it to disengage, any funny look will pull you out of it. So NB cloak is primarily a reset tool, and that's what new vampire cloak is doing too, basically giving NB tool to other classes.
You never though a good NB so.
Cloak is a defensive and offensive tool. No one with a half brain die on the 1th opening.
The goal of a NB is to constently burst opening you until you make an error or have not enough HP to survive the next combo.
Dying to the first opening combo is a low CP half brain people thing. Bad NB tend to reset completly the fight where good NB keep the pressure on the boi.
Point in case, nobody with half a brain will let NB keep stay in the fight and keep using cloak. That "good NB" strategy you're talking about won't work on people with marginally higher number of brain cells, because there'll be AoEs, there'll be reveal pots, flare, magelight, you name it. So when it comes to keeping up the pressure, cloak isn't your tool.
Boi have u ever fight a good NB really ?
HWO half good enough use magelight, flare and several AOE ? Good NB don't get reaveal easely, that's the point.
This is a dumb argument as it completely depends on the scenario, number of people, % of lag/ping , etc...
Even good nb’s fall victim to bad situations.Member of:
Fantasia - osh kosh b-josh
Just Chill - Crown's house
GoldCloaks - Durruthy test server penga
Small Meme Guild - Mano's house
Former member of:
Legend - Siffer fan boy club
TKO (tamriel knight's order) - free bks
Deviance - Leonard's senche tiger
Purple - hamNchz is my hero
Eight Divines - myrlifax stop playing final fantasy
WKB (we kill bosses) - turd where you go?
Arcance Council - Klytz Kommander
World Boss - Mike & Chewy gone EP
M12 (majestic twelve) - cult of the loli zerg1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »This is an escape passive, this has nothing to do with COMBAT.
You will not be invisible in a middle of fight at will like an NB while not being a NB.
You will be able to escape more reliably when before you was already trying to escape.
Can you please tell me scenarios where you think that this passive be do similar things than NB but better ?
From what I see, that's the primary use of cloak for NBs, that's the gist. Cloak's not much use in actual combat; you gank from stealth (but you can stealth without cloak), but you don't use cloak mid-fight for any meaningful purposes, other than to escape and reset the fight. Not much other practical use for it in combat, more so that if you don't use it to disengage, any funny look will pull you out of it. So NB cloak is primarily a reset tool, and that's what new vampire cloak is doing too, basically giving NB tool to other classes.
You never though a good NB so.
Cloak is a defensive and offensive tool. No one with a half brain die on the 1th opening.
The goal of a NB is to constently burst opening you until you make an error or have not enough HP to survive the next combo.
Dying to the first opening combo is a low CP half brain people thing. Bad NB tend to reset completly the fight where good NB keep the pressure on the boi.
Point in case, nobody with half a brain will let NB keep stay in the fight and keep using cloak. That "good NB" strategy you're talking about won't work on people with marginally higher number of brain cells, because there'll be AoEs, there'll be reveal pots, flare, magelight, you name it. So when it comes to keeping up the pressure, cloak isn't your tool.
Boi have u ever fight a good NB really ?
HWO half good enough use magelight, flare and several AOE ? Good NB don't get reaveal easely, that's the point.
This is a dumb argument as it completely depends on the scenario, number of people, % of lag/ping , etc...
Even good nb’s fall victim to bad situations.
As they should. You can't allow Cloak to always work when the NB desires. 'cause then every NB would just cloak away when they're losing. I know this is something NBs want and this used to be a thing, but there's a reason it got changed.1 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »This is an escape passive, this has nothing to do with COMBAT.
You will not be invisible in a middle of fight at will like an NB while not being a NB.
You will be able to escape more reliably when before you was already trying to escape.
Can you please tell me scenarios where you think that this passive be do similar things than NB but better ?
From what I see, that's the primary use of cloak for NBs, that's the gist. Cloak's not much use in actual combat; you gank from stealth (but you can stealth without cloak), but you don't use cloak mid-fight for any meaningful purposes, other than to escape and reset the fight. Not much other practical use for it in combat, more so that if you don't use it to disengage, any funny look will pull you out of it. So NB cloak is primarily a reset tool, and that's what new vampire cloak is doing too, basically giving NB tool to other classes.
You never though a good NB so.
Cloak is a defensive and offensive tool. No one with a half brain die on the 1th opening.
The goal of a NB is to constently burst opening you until you make an error or have not enough HP to survive the next combo.
Dying to the first opening combo is a low CP half brain people thing. Bad NB tend to reset completly the fight where good NB keep the pressure on the boi.
Point in case, nobody with half a brain will let NB keep stay in the fight and keep using cloak. That "good NB" strategy you're talking about won't work on people with marginally higher number of brain cells, because there'll be AoEs, there'll be reveal pots, flare, magelight, you name it. So when it comes to keeping up the pressure, cloak isn't your tool.
Boi have u ever fight a good NB really ?
HWO half good enough use magelight, flare and several AOE ? Good NB don't get reaveal easely, that's the point.
This is a dumb argument as it completely depends on the scenario, number of people, % of lag/ping , etc...
Even good nb’s fall victim to bad situations.
As they should. You can't allow Cloak to always work when the NB desires. 'cause then every NB would just cloak away when they're losing. I know this is something NBs want and this used to be a thing, but there's a reason it got changed.
A good NB is uncatchable.
Between roll down, fear, major expedition, cloak and shadow Image being catched as a NB is an error. You either didn't set up your shadow image correctly or you took a too big risk that leaded to your death.
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nublife01✭✭✭✭Dude literally everyone disagrees with this guy. Not mentioning any names but it's pretty obvious who im talking about. Don't try to argue with him its not worth it. Just let him stand alone. Trust me just reading everything he doesn't understand the class and is not worth arguing with. ZOS if you feel like banning me for this comment whatever but like this sycophant is either trolling this whole forum feed or completely ignorant or both and hes been doing it on every forum feed. nightblade is in a bad spot right now. Everyone agrees with that. Stop feeding the troll.Edited by nublife01 on April 11, 2020 10:18AM5
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Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Nah, it is not worth it, just ignore him. (edited to prevent name & shame lol).Dude literally everyone disagrees with this A******** guy. Don't try to argue with him its not worth it. Just let him stand alone.
He seems to be simply trolling on 2 or 3 NB identity / Vampire invisibility threads. Dude seems to be stuck in the past, back when NB were strong / decent (2 - 1 years ago) and probably have not played NB since.
On Isth3reno1else YouTube Channel he had a podcast / talk with El Lobo, and El Lobo who actually perfectly captured the issue some ppl on forum have. Basically, ppl seem to remember how something used to look like long time ago, and they do not update their information.
(It is pre-harrowstorm, but not much has changed in terms of class balance. Before cloak was bugged and before new vampire passives were shown to the public. It was bad before for NBs , but now it will kinda tragic for NBs). Time stamp: 2:05
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Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
Nah, it is not worth it, just ignore him. (edited to prevent name & shame lol).Dude literally everyone disagrees with this A******** guy. Don't try to argue with him its not worth it. Just let him stand alone.
He seems to be simply trolling on 2 or 3 NB identity / Vampire invisibility threads. Dude seems to be stuck in the past, back when NB were strong / decent (2 - 1 years ago) and probably have not played NB since.
On Isth3reno1else YouTube Channel he had a podcast / talk with El Lobo, and El Lobo who actually perfectly captured the issue some ppl on forum have. Basically, ppl seem to remember how something used to look like long time ago, and they do not update their information.
(It is pre-harrowstorm, but not much has changed in terms of class balance. Before cloak was bugged and before new vampire passives were shown to the public. It was bad before for NBs , but now it will kinda tragic for NBs). Time stamp: 2:05
You are using a strawman argument.
The tools NB have to kite didn't change.
And the fact that a good NB need to keep the pressure on the ennemy and not completly reset the fight when you cloak is still there.
BTW, here a the proof :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwWoFFgOOiM&t=304s
I have never said that NB was in a good spot. NB struggle killing the average zergling people building more and more tanky and cannot compete with good players in a new moon/fury/bloodspawn huge damage and tankiness meta.Edited by Aedaryl on April 11, 2020 10:52AM0 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭yea i know everyone knows nightblade sucks now. 2-3 patches ago thogard abused the crap out of the last viable build which ended with us getting nerfed further and our main set 7th legion being reworked so that we're one of if not the only class that can't use it. hes about to get stamplars nerfed to the floor and mercy stamcro's so its all good lol. i mean if ZOS just plays their own game they'll know how bad of state the class is right now. like they gutted the class nerfing literally every single core non-flex spot ability because so many noobs complained because they didn't know how to survive the damage, gave all of our core debuffs/buffs to other classes, and have pushed the game into a horrid tank meta for them. like i could literally write an essay about how they destroyed the class and combat in general for that matter.
now noobs complained about shadowy disguise because they don't know how to kill a good nightblade and so they're basically giving it (or rather the aspect of it that is the most cancerous/nooby way the skill can be used) to everyone else which is going to make pvp god awful. like theyre literally about to completely ruin the combat mechanics of the game with these changes and the LA/HA changes when they should be literally doing the exact opposite and be catering to more advanced gameplay and move away from the tank/dizzy swing meta as fast as they can.
its ok though like if ZOS keeps making changes like this to support players who are nooby and barely play their game ESO is going to go downhill very fast the same way World of Warcraft did when they made similar changes to their game mechanics during the Wrath of the Lich King expansion. Like its a blatant history lesson not to make these sort of changes to an mmo or an rpg or you rapidly lose player base. but i mean hey i guess they have to see for themselves with this expansion.
and i mean i was a top 100-200 in the US rbg player in world of warcraft until i quit because of these changes that activision made to wow and have 1vx'd and have killed very good players in this game which ive played since beta. i clearly must have no idea what im talking about. like trust me this game is going to plummet in player base like wow did if they keep it up with these changes. that's like the saddest part is knowing whats going to happen next.Edited by nublife01 on April 11, 2020 11:11AM1 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
Nah, it is not worth it, just ignore him. (edited to prevent name & shame lol).Dude literally everyone disagrees with this A******** guy. Don't try to argue with him its not worth it. Just let him stand alone.
He seems to be simply trolling on 2 or 3 NB identity / Vampire invisibility threads. Dude seems to be stuck in the past, back when NB were strong / decent (2 - 1 years ago) and probably have not played NB since.
On Isth3reno1else YouTube Channel he had a podcast / talk with El Lobo, and El Lobo who actually perfectly captured the issue some ppl on forum have. Basically, ppl seem to remember how something used to look like long time ago, and they do not update their information.
(It is pre-harrowstorm, but not much has changed in terms of class balance. Before cloak was bugged and before new vampire passives were shown to the public. It was bad before for NBs , but now it will kinda tragic for NBs). Time stamp: 2:05
You are using a strawman argument.
The tools NB have to kite didn't change.
And the fact that a good NB need to keep the pressure on the ennemy and not completly reset the fight when you cloak is still there.
BTW, here a the proof :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwWoFFgOOiM&t=304s
I have never said that NB was in a good spot. NB struggle killing the average zergling people building more and more tanky and cannot compete with good players in a new moon/fury/bloodspawn huge damage and tankiness meta.
sniker himself has actually been complaining a lot about the state of nightblade. like he has complained a lot actually. and it is blatantly obvious in this video that he is killing noobs who are lagging. i can literally do this in my sleep. more than half of them arent even reacting to him killing them. theyre just sitting there taking it. so no not a good video/proof you are still wrong and i still can't tell if youre trolling.
seriously though dude go make a stamblade. i can tell you exactly how to gear him with the two best gearing options and skill options available for 1v1 and 1vx that are not only provided by me but godblades such as grimmhallow. sure if you get good enough you can kill noobs. but once you face good players being just a beginner nightblade youre going to get stomped on. i'm saying this because not only do i know but literally every good player/streamer/youtuber knows that nightblades are in a bad state right now.Edited by nublife01 on April 11, 2020 11:24AM5 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
Nah, it is not worth it, just ignore him. (edited to prevent name & shame lol).Dude literally everyone disagrees with this A******** guy. Don't try to argue with him its not worth it. Just let him stand alone.
He seems to be simply trolling on 2 or 3 NB identity / Vampire invisibility threads. Dude seems to be stuck in the past, back when NB were strong / decent (2 - 1 years ago) and probably have not played NB since.
On Isth3reno1else YouTube Channel he had a podcast / talk with El Lobo, and El Lobo who actually perfectly captured the issue some ppl on forum have. Basically, ppl seem to remember how something used to look like long time ago, and they do not update their information.
(It is pre-harrowstorm, but not much has changed in terms of class balance. Before cloak was bugged and before new vampire passives were shown to the public. It was bad before for NBs , but now it will kinda tragic for NBs). Time stamp: 2:05
You are using a strawman argument.
The tools NB have to kite didn't change.
And the fact that a good NB need to keep the pressure on the ennemy and not completly reset the fight when you cloak is still there.
BTW, here a the proof :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwWoFFgOOiM&t=304s
I have never said that NB was in a good spot. NB struggle killing the average zergling people building more and more tanky and cannot compete with good players in a new moon/fury/bloodspawn huge damage and tankiness meta.
sniker himself has actually been complaining a lot about the state of nightblade.
Hwo don't ?
This never has been the subject.
The subject is Unatural mouvement - and you guys don't understand how it work from what we know and further, are making assumptions just like u did.
Comparing Cloak to Unatural mouvement when it doesn't allow the same thing at all.1 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭build one (for 1vX): spriggan/new moon acolyte (front bar)/bloodspawn/masterbow back bar. use all infused/damage jewelery and use double damage dot poisons/nirnhorned 2h maul front bar. 24 hp/rest into stamina. lavafoot food. 2 heavy 5 medium.
build two for (1v1): clever alchemist/new moon acolyte (front bar)/bloodspawn or balorgh/masterbow back bar. all infused/damage jewelery and use poisoned/sharpened 2h maul front bar. 5 hp/rest into stamina. artaeum takeaway broth. 2 heavy 5 medium.
those are the two best builds. go play a stamblade and get back to us about how good they are before spreading ignorance on the forums.1 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭build one (for 1vX): spriggan/new moon acolyte (front bar)/bloodspawn/masterbow back bar. use all infused/damage jewelery and use double damage dot poisons/nirnhorned 2h maul front bar. 24 hp/rest into stamina. lavafoot food. 2 heavy 5 medium.
build two for (1v1): clever alchemist/new moon acolyte (front bar)/bloodspawn or balorgh/masterbow back bar. all infused/damage jewelery and use poisoned/sharpened 2h maul front bar. 5 hp/rest into stamina. artaeum takeaway broth. 2 heavy 5 medium.
those are the two best builds. go play a stamblade and get back to us about how good they are before spreading ignorance on the forums.
Hwo are you talking about?
Do you even read what people write ? Everyone is agree on NB not being in a good spot.
Seriously what's ur problem to constantly bring NB state when everyone is agree and when this not the subject?
Going back to the subject aka why Unatural Mouvement is not a NB nerf.
Do you know how it work from the info we get?Edited by Aedaryl on April 11, 2020 11:39AM1 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭Um you posted that video lol.
And thats obvious. It's a nerf the same way that they changed grim focus and the stamina meta shifted towards everyone using evil hunter. Basically they took our 8% damage buff from grim focus and gave it to everyone and forced us to slot an extra skill to have it. they took our major defile and gave it to the new class and also gave that new class a better version of dark cloak that gives % damage reduction instead of resistance via a passive. They nerfed our fear and gave an improved version of it to every class via the fighters guild tree. They gave everyone our shadow image ability in the form of that psijic ultimate which is also now meta. I'm sure I'm missing some and not listing all of these nerfs. The light attacks changes will be basically giving every class siphoning strikes and make that ability completely irrelevant. And they're giving away the most cancerous way our most class-defining ability can be used away to every class. It is a direct nerf to nightblade the same way the rest of these changes were nerfs to nightblade and will ruin pvp combat.
It's like that quote from the incredibles movie "if everyone is a superhero nobody is a superhero". It makes it so that there is no point to play nightblade as every good aspect of our class that you could potentially want from playing our class you can find elsewhere while nightblade still lacks having the powerful abilities that other classes have. That's how it's a nerf to nightblade.Edited by nublife01 on April 11, 2020 12:04PM2 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Um you posted that video lol.
And thats obvious. It's a nerf the same way that they changed grim focus and the stamina meta shifted towards everyone using evil hunter. Basically they took our 8% damage buff from grim focus and gave it to everyone and forced us to slot an extra skill to have it. they took our major defile and gave it to the new class and also gave that new class a better version of dark cloak that gives % damage reduction instead of resistance via a passive. They nerfed our fear and gave an improved version of it to every class via the fighters guild tree. I'm sure I'm missing some and not listing all of these nerfs. The light attacks changes will be basically giving every class siphoning strikes and make that ability completely irrelevant. And they're giving away the most cancerous way our most class-defining ability can be used away to every class. It is a direct nerf to nightblade the same way the rest of these changes were nerfs to nightblade and will ruin pvp combat. It's like that quote from the incredibles movie "if everyone is a superhero nobody is a superhero". That's how it's a nerf to stamblade.
You explain why NB have been nerfed in the past.
But you didn't explain why Unatural Mouvement is a NB nerf.
Do you know how it work from what we know ? If yes, prove it, if no, don't ask to nerf it before it's been further tested.
You cry about people complaining and getting your class nerfed, but you are doing the same thing about something that is not even official, just based on the tool tip assuming it's work like a delayed cloak.
3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTP1WSIUZhs