Heavy Attack Crits Do The Same Damage As Crystal Frag Proc Crits

TheMaos · April 2020

*Disclaimer these results are without using queens elegance*
Any opinions I say in the video, are just that, my opinions and not intended as bashing, maybe just a bit of frustration because I really enjoy this game and think this may be a bad road to follow.
That being said, yes crystal frag procs and heavy attacks can have the same amount of damage.
Think of the implications in pvp about that, getting hit with a 8k to 12k frag then an 8k to 12k heavy attack at ONCE.
Here is some gameplay, take from it what you will.
(If you don't want to watch the video heavy attacks and frags crit on a 3mill dummy for 30.8k and 31.3k respectively. On a trial dummy, both crit around 50k.)

My sets
Slimecraw monster- both divines
New Moon body- all impen
Destructive Mage- nirnhoned with flame enchant, jewelry all infused spell damage(This does not count as heavy attack damage, it shows up separate.)
Mundas-Apprentice
60 points in staff expert

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKnYdrHcb1A

DreamLizard · April 2020

Ahhh yes perfectly balanced as all things should be

Aznarb · April 2020

60 point in staff expert.
Not worth it.

TheMaos · April 2020

Aznarb wrote: »

60 point in staff expert.
Not worth it.

considering it only takes away a few 1-2% away from the other things you put your cp into..... yes, yes it is.
instead of wasting 60 cp going from 23% to 25% in something like the Elf born and what ever the direct damage one is called. Put those in destruction staff expert and your dps is going to be much higher, it is simple math man.

TheMaos · April 2020

From a pvp stand point

Vaoh · April 2020

ESO looking balanced in 2020 mmhmmm.

But in reality, this is getting so bad it’s even going to make a casual or new player’s questing experience feel weird.

TheMaos · April 2020

Vaoh wrote: »

ESO looking balanced in 2020 mmhmmm.

But in reality, this is getting so bad it’s even going to make a casual or new player’s questing experience feel weird.

I mean all i see is new people light attacking, and they are gonna be hitting a solid 500 damage light attacks now

Vaoh · April 2020

TheMaos wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

ESO looking balanced in 2020 mmhmmm.

But in reality, this is getting so bad it’s even going to make a casual or new player’s questing experience feel weird.

I mean all i see is new people light attacking, and they are gonna be hitting a solid 500 damage light attacks now

They’re gonna light attack and it’ll do no damage, then they’ll heavy attack and it’ll delete like 50-100% the health the enemy has. I’m glad I got to do my TES roleplayer questing experience back when eso had solid performance and gameplay (the only exception being PvP primetime lag).

MashmalloMan · April 2020

Hilarious, well made video.

I like the part where you added the Bound Armaments change, ty :> smh

Sluggy · April 2020

Only 30k?

Seriously though, I totally agree that heavy attack damage is way too high. That looks like you are at least running a legit build there hahaha. With some min/maxing things get pretty wacky.

A highly convoluted setup on a trial dummy using a dedicated heavy-attack DK. Note that even in a normal situation I can easily hit 50k-70k on a 6million dummy throughout a fight.

Here was another result from my nightblade using a ganking setup.

As I stated in another thread, I like that heavies deal more damage. But on the PTS they are literally the strongest attacks in the game.

Alucardo · April 2020

ZOS: One of the reasons for these changes is the current lack of build diversity
Everyone: *Heavy attack build intensifies*

10/10 video btw.

Vaoh · April 2020

Sluggy wrote: »

Only 30k?

Seriously though, I totally agree that heavy attack damage is way too high. That looks like you are at least running a legit build there hahaha. With some min/maxing things get pretty wacky.

A highly convoluted setup on a trial dummy using a dedicated heavy-attack DK. Note that even in a normal situation I can easily hit 50k-70k on a 6million dummy throughout a fight.

Here was another result from my nightblade using a ganking setup.

As I stated in another thread, I like that heavies deal more damage. But on the PTS they are literally the strongest attacks in the game.

Wow lol

John_Falstaff · April 2020

Now we'll have the age of heavy-attack DK gankers which will be deleting people from sneak and then running away into vampiric invisibility with Dr. Zoidberg sounds.

Alucardo · April 2020

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Now we'll have the age of heavy-attack DK gankers which will be deleting people from sneak and then running away into vampiric invisibility with Dr. Zoidberg sounds.

While this obviously sounds horrible, I'm actually quite excited to see it for comedic purposes.

Juhasow · April 2020

So "intuitive"...

Opalblade · April 2020

Well they did say they wanted to decrease the skill gap, so maybe this was the plan all along. At least no one can complain that spamming heavy attack is "too hard" lmao.

Alucardo · April 2020

Opalblade wrote: »

Well they did say they wanted to decrease the skill gap, so maybe this was the plan all along. At least no one can complain that spamming heavy attack is "too hard" lmao.

Actually I've had a glitch for a while where my heavy attacks become stuck. I have to wait around a full second after pressing ability before I can wind one up or the click doesn't register. It happens randomly during combat and it's super annoying. Seems to affect light attacks also.

Kram8ion · April 2020

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Now we'll have the age of heavy-attack DK gankers which will be deleting people from sneak and then running away into vampiric invisibility with Dr. Zoidberg sounds.

Lol And Benny hill

Ranger209 · April 2020

Sluggy wrote: »

Only 30k?

Seriously though, I totally agree that heavy attack damage is way too high. That looks like you are at least running a legit build there hahaha. With some min/maxing things get pretty wacky.

A highly convoluted setup on a trial dummy using a dedicated heavy-attack DK. Note that even in a normal situation I can easily hit 50k-70k on a 6million dummy throughout a fight.

Here was another result from my nightblade using a ganking setup.

As I stated in another thread, I like that heavies deal more damage. But on the PTS they are literally the strongest attacks in the game.

They should be, they take twice as long to cast. I think the balance should be struck where a light attack and spamable hits half as hard as a heavy, so when you do two LA/spam combos in 2 seconds its roughly the same damage as 1 heavy in 2 seconds. Give or take actual variance in heavy cast times for different weapons. If a heavy only takes 1.5 seconds then it should only be 150% of the damage that the light attack/spamable 1 second combo of that weapon type does.

Aedaryl · April 2020

Ranger209 wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

Only 30k?

Seriously though, I totally agree that heavy attack damage is way too high. That looks like you are at least running a legit build there hahaha. With some min/maxing things get pretty wacky.

A highly convoluted setup on a trial dummy using a dedicated heavy-attack DK. Note that even in a normal situation I can easily hit 50k-70k on a 6million dummy throughout a fight.

Here was another result from my nightblade using a ganking setup.

As I stated in another thread, I like that heavies deal more damage. But on the PTS they are literally the strongest attacks in the game.

They should be, they take twice as long to cast. I think the balance should be struck where a light attack and spamable hits half as hard as a heavy, so when you do two LA/spam combos in 2 seconds its roughly the same damage as 1 heavy in 2 seconds. Give or take actual variance in heavy cast times for different weapons. If a heavy only takes 1.5 seconds then it should only be 150% of the damage that the light attack/spamable 1 second combo of that weapon type does.

Ans what about the thousands resources and 4 touch you pressed for having the same result that just clicking 1 button so?

Sluggy · April 2020

Ranger209 wrote: »

They should be, they take twice as long to cast. I think the balance should be struck where a light attack and spamable hits half as hard as a heavy, so when you do two LA/spam combos in 2 seconds its roughly the same damage as 1 heavy in 2 seconds. Give or take actual variance in heavy cast times for different weapons. If a heavy only takes 1.5 seconds then it should only be 150% of the damage that the light attack/spamable 1 second combo of that weapon type does.

Not gonna argue that they should be strong, but an attack that can be used every three seconds versus and attack that can only be used once every 10-30 seconds? Also, light attacks are doing absolutely nowhere near that much damage, let alone 66% of a single heavy (with the exception of Blood Moon builds).

In PvE it's one thing I suppose - to get those numbers I had to sacrifice a good bit of total damage output so the reality is that my DPS was quite middling. Maybe 52k on a trial dummy and 30k-33k on a 6 million. PvP is a different story though and a combo that can setup a single 15k-20k+ hit every few seconds could be pretty brutal. I'm sure the first few weeks of Cyrodiil are gonna be quite exciting. Glad I just happened to finish farming my Sergeant's Mail only a week before this whole change was announced XD

Again, I do like that they are strong. I just think it's a bit overtuned. My guess would be that the devs deliberately pushed the limits of lights and heavies to get a baseline and then planned to easy back into something more balanced after they got some feedback and analytics. It's a common way to do balancing in a game. Just maybe not so common for a game that was released years ago.

josh.lackey_ESO · April 2020

You are comparing an instant-cast ability that takes 1 GCD with a charge-up ability that also takes 1 GCD when you empower it. Casting Magelight is not free, either.

I am not sure I see the problem?

I would rather not have to use heavy attacks at all, but if I am going to use them I think they should be worth the cast time.

You also can't block while winding up a heavy, whereas instant cast abilities can be cast while blocking or even woven in with other actions (LA, dodge, sprint).

The real (over?) power here is when to wind up the heavy when you have the frag proc, then activate the frag while winding up so they both fire at roughly the same time for a double burst, since you don't have to wait for a GCD cooldown.

ecru · April 2020

can't wait to get gibbed by heavy+executioner by very bad players because i let myself drop below 65% health

universal_wrath · April 2020

TheMaos wrote: »

*Disclaimer these results are without using queens elegance*
Any opinions I say in the video, are just that, my opinions and not intended as bashing, maybe just a bit of frustration because I really enjoy this game and think this may be a bad road to follow.
That being said, yes crystal frag procs and heavy attacks can have the same amount of damage.
Think of the implications in pvp about that, getting hit with a 8k to 12k frag then an 8k to 12k heavy attack at ONCE.
Here is some gameplay, take from it what you will.
(If you don't want to watch the video heavy attacks and frags crit on a 3mill dummy for 30.8k and 31.3k respectively. On a trial dummy, both crit around 50k.)

My sets
Slimecraw monster- both divines
New Moon body- all impen
Destructive Mage- nirnhoned with flame enchant, jewelry all infused spell damage(This does not count as heavy attack damage, it shows up separate.)
Mundas-Apprentice
60 points in staff expert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKnYdrHcb1A

Ihit 35-40k heavy attack on my magplar and magsorc in dungeon setting without any famcy buffs like major force or major vunerability, inly major armor debuff and maybe minor vunrability. It will be like 80k next patch lol, I wonder how much will I do in pvp next patch.

Galarthor · April 2020

universal_wrath wrote: »

TheMaos wrote: »

*Disclaimer these results are without using queens elegance*
Any opinions I say in the video, are just that, my opinions and not intended as bashing, maybe just a bit of frustration because I really enjoy this game and think this may be a bad road to follow.
That being said, yes crystal frag procs and heavy attacks can have the same amount of damage.
Think of the implications in pvp about that, getting hit with a 8k to 12k frag then an 8k to 12k heavy attack at ONCE.
Here is some gameplay, take from it what you will.
(If you don't want to watch the video heavy attacks and frags crit on a 3mill dummy for 30.8k and 31.3k respectively. On a trial dummy, both crit around 50k.)

My sets
Slimecraw monster- both divines
New Moon body- all impen
Destructive Mage- nirnhoned with flame enchant, jewelry all infused spell damage(This does not count as heavy attack damage, it shows up separate.)
Mundas-Apprentice
60 points in staff expert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKnYdrHcb1A

Ihit 35-40k heavy attack on my magplar and magsorc in dungeon setting without any famcy buffs like major force or major vunerability, inly major armor debuff and maybe minor vunrability. It will be like 80k next patch lol, I wonder how much will I do in pvp next patch.

Not enough, unless you are at the point where you are only spamming heavy attacks. At that point ZOS will be (almost) happy b/c the gameplay is slow af and everybody is doing the same thing. And with everybody only spamming slow heavy attacks there is literally no skill gap anymore. Problem solved ... almost, people still have to aim. But that is an issue for another time.

Vaoh · April 2020

Galarthor wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

TheMaos wrote: »

*Disclaimer these results are without using queens elegance*
Any opinions I say in the video, are just that, my opinions and not intended as bashing, maybe just a bit of frustration because I really enjoy this game and think this may be a bad road to follow.
That being said, yes crystal frag procs and heavy attacks can have the same amount of damage.
Think of the implications in pvp about that, getting hit with a 8k to 12k frag then an 8k to 12k heavy attack at ONCE.
Here is some gameplay, take from it what you will.
(If you don't want to watch the video heavy attacks and frags crit on a 3mill dummy for 30.8k and 31.3k respectively. On a trial dummy, both crit around 50k.)

My sets
Slimecraw monster- both divines
New Moon body- all impen
Destructive Mage- nirnhoned with flame enchant, jewelry all infused spell damage(This does not count as heavy attack damage, it shows up separate.)
Mundas-Apprentice
60 points in staff expert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKnYdrHcb1A

Ihit 35-40k heavy attack on my magplar and magsorc in dungeon setting without any famcy buffs like major force or major vunerability, inly major armor debuff and maybe minor vunrability. It will be like 80k next patch lol, I wonder how much will I do in pvp next patch.

Not enough, unless you are at the point where you are only spamming heavy attacks. At that point ZOS will be (almost) happy b/c the gameplay is slow af and everybody is doing the same thing. And with everybody only spamming slow heavy attacks there is literally no skill gap anymore. Problem solved ... almost, people still have to aim. But that is an issue for another time.

We all used to joke that they would homogenize skills so that all skills of the same type do the same damage.

We all used to joke that the classes would eventually play almost the same but with different colors.

We all used to joke that group PvE content would start having performance/combat issues like PvP does.

We all used to joke that Heavy attack spam would become high damage so even players holding down one button could compete in everything.

All things we used to joke about. The first 3 things actually happened and it looks like the 4th is currently in the works on PTS

Xarc · April 2020

You learnt the game, using skills ? 30k damages.
You are noob and dont put any effort into learning game ? 30k damages.

Zer0_CooL · April 2020

HA should deal more damage since it has a casting time

Mortiis13 · April 2020

Come on, we defeated molag bal, we deserve it to be the new akatosh.

sproattt · April 2020

Another addition to ESO without proper testing, it's like the DOT meta allllll over again. You'll see in 3 months that Heavy attacks will be nerfed, light attack buffed. [snip]

Another indirect nerf to classes that use light attack weaves in there rotation, mostly Nightblades. What a rip.

[edited for bashing]

Zekka · April 2020

1:10 is spot on, that weird animation lock+resource drain glitch makes me scared of using heavy attacks and it's already on the live server.
ZOS should fix the core of their game that is falling apart before even thinking about balancing.