I think it's time ZOS started hiring volunteers that would police the game for RPs.

bmnoble · March 2020

In over 2500 hrs of playing this game, the number of times I have encountered groups of role players can still only be counted on the fingers on both my hands.

You asking to give a select group of players these lesser GM powers on the off chance they are in the right place at the right time to solve these issues unless these chosen individuals are in those groups of role players being affected I don't see this as being any more useful than the current reporting system.

And what happens if you chosen lesser GM sides with the people the role players are accusing of harassing them? what if they rule that what those players are doing is not harassment, not necessarily by choice but by ZOS's definition of harassment criteria they have to use to punish someone or lose the privilege they have been given.

Who ever gets chosen:

-Will have to be in the right place at the right time.

-Or be known so they can be bothered by players when they are online to come and solve a dispute

-Will either have too watered down authority to actually do anything more than the current reporting system

-Too much authority and possible abuse of power leading to complaints to ZOS who may scrap the system after implementation for potentially driving away paying customers with short term bans that may or may not be justified.

Lowbei · March 2020

nobody is “griefing” nor “harassing” rpers. they simply are more emotional (not an insult) than normal players, which results in threads like these when someone uses momentos near them.

it looks like all the other threads that were posted in the wrong forum (there is an rp forum) have been closed. hopefully this last one can remain civil.

Tessitura · March 2020

I don't like the idea at all. While I agree these people are being *** for no good reason, I am not down for a volunteer police force to abuse their power to solve personal grudges like I know they would do. I have seen how roleplay discords "moderate" their communities, hell I have seen how most gamer's in general do it. Screw letting any of that have any actual power to flex with.

Bobby_V_Rockit · March 2020

... and everybody clapped

Lysette · March 2020

Tessitura wrote: »

I don't like the idea at all. While I agree these people are being *** for no good reason, I am not down for a volunteer police force to abuse their power to solve personal grudges like I know they would do. I have seen how roleplay discords "moderate" their communities, hell I have seen how most gamer's in general do it. Screw letting any of that have any actual power to flex with.

Agreed - I had my experience with the "in character" crowd as well. I consider myself a role player too, but I am not into talking like someone from the medieval period - this is Nirn, not earth - rules from earth don't apply on Nirn.

Gaebriel0410 · March 2020

While I don't really agree on having players policing as mini-GM's, I just had to pop in to react to the following:

Lowbei wrote: »

nobody is “griefing” nor “harassing” rpers. they simply are more emotional (not an insult) than normal players, which results in threads like these when someone uses momentos near them.

I think this is one of the most ridiculous things I've read here as of late (dw not an insult, I just think it's nonsense lol). In these threads there have been several roleplayers stating that they've been harassed at times for like an hour on end, while roleplaying in the middle of nowhere. How would you, a non-roleplayer I assume, know better than the people who experience it?

In my experience being a roleplayer myself, there's very very few of us who would care even the slightest (I certainly don't) if someone throws the occasional mudball or AOE at them (even if just doing it once on purpose is already kiiiinda rude imo, but that's still innocent I'd say).

But the issue most of them brought up is that it's the repeated spam that's the problem, often going on for a long time. First time it's no problem, tenth time it probably gets tiring and the hundredth time people just opt to play in their houses instead, secluding themselves and making the world a little less colourful in the process.

Roleplayers being 'more emotional' than other players or somehow not considered 'normal players' are of course complete nonsense, they're just enjoying a different aspect to the game than you. Almost every roleplayer I know is also interested in other aspects in the game, whether it's PvE or PvP.

price101610 wrote: »

Can Zos just hire all these ‘high APM’ players to carry all the nooblets and rp’ers through harder content?

The myth that roleplayers are generally bad players or never doing any other game content is as old as time itself and.. fairly yawn-inducing by now. The vast majority of roleplayers I know (and I know a whole lot of them) are very much into other game content too, and often harder content to boot, with quite some of them playing at high skill levels. One does not exclude the other. I mean, how else did you think we got our rare dye colours and housing furniture?

Lowbei · March 2020

thrashtilldeath666cub18_ESO wrote: »

While I don't really agree on having players policing as mini-GM's, I just had to pop in to react to the following:

Lowbei wrote: »

nobody is “griefing” nor “harassing” rpers. they simply are more emotional (not an insult) than normal players, which results in threads like these when someone uses momentos near them.

I think this is one of the most ridiculous things I've read here as of late (dw not an insult, I just think it's nonsense lol). In these threads there have been several roleplayers stating that they've been harassed at times for like an hour on end, while roleplaying in the middle of nowhere. How would you, a non-roleplayer I assume, know better than the people who experience it?

In my experience being a roleplayer myself, there's very very few of us who would care even the slightest (I certainly don't) if someone throws the occasional mudball or AOE at them (even if just doing it once on purpose is already kiiiinda rude imo, but that's still innocent I'd say).

But the issue most of them brought up is that it's the repeated spam that's the problem, often going on for a long time. First time it's no problem, tenth time it probably gets tiring and the hundredth time people just opt to play in their houses instead, secluding themselves and making the world a little less colourful in the process.

Roleplayers being 'more emotional' than other players or somehow not considered 'normal players' are of course complete nonsense, they're just enjoying a different aspect to the game than you. Almost every roleplayer I know is also interested in other aspects in the game, whether it's PvE or PvP.

price101610 wrote: »

Can Zos just hire all these ‘high APM’ players to carry all the nooblets and rp’ers through harder content?

The myth that roleplayers are generally bad players or never doing any other game content is as old as time itself and.. fairly yawn-inducing by now. The vast majority of roleplayers I know (and I know a whole lot of them) are very much into other game content too, and often harder content to boot, with quite some of them playing at high skill levels. One does not exclude the other. I mean, how else did you think we got our rare dye colours and housing furniture?

As a psychologist, I would honestly break down the reason that these threads exist to be a result of negative emotion toward momento use. I have seen 5+ angry RPer forum threads here in the last 3 days about normal players making them upset, yet zero normal player threads upset at RPers.

Also, regarding most RPers being into real content, for giggles I went to fells run last night to check out what they are talking about (and throw a mudball or two) and 90% of them were less than level 20 (non-CP).

Honestly that seems like a willful attempt to avoid normal game content, as most players arent going to rivenspire below 20. Theres nothing wrong with that, but it doesnt match up with your statement.

Dusk_Coven · March 2020

Lowbei wrote: »

Honestly that seems like a willful attempt to avoid normal game content, as most players arent going to rivenspire below 20. Theres nothing wrong with that, but it doesnt match up with your statement.

Do you even play the game?
One Tamriel level syncing was specifically adopted so that players can play with their friends in most areas without artificial level gating.
They deliberately made "normal game content" more of what the player chooses rather than linear progression.

LadyDestiny · March 2020

I would see this position highly abused in so many ways.

Dusk_Coven · March 2020

LadyDestiny wrote: »

I would see this position highly abused in so many ways.

The old question of "who watches the watchers"?
That's why there are paid positions -- you mess around, you lose your income. There's more accountability than volunteers.
I suppose there are ways to add accountability to a volunteer position, such as a threat of permanent ban across everything Bethesda touches, but now we're getting complicated.

That said, if you look at how customer service (presumably a paid position) handles tickets with repeatedly outright wrong answers... ZOS really needs to build credibility first before GMs become more of a thing.

Gaebriel0410 · March 2020

Lowbei wrote: »

So if they arent more emotional (again not an insult) then why does this thread exist? I have seen 5+ angry RPer forum threads here in the last 3 days about normal players making them upset, yet zero normal player threads upset at RPers.

You base your entire statement on what threads you've seen on the forum the last few days, yet you kind of ignore what I just wrote. People get angry not because it happened to them once or twice, but because it happens to them a lot. It's much the same as those threads about fake tanks you often see. I doubt anyone would care if it happened once or twice, but it gets annoying if it's a very regular thing. And if you've read those threads, I bet you also noticed that they were full of edgy snarks towards RPers. 'RP is not normal' / 'your problems aren't relevant' / 'RPers are bad at the game' / 'RPers are weird and creepy' / 'haha go outside' etc. etc. etc.

Lowbei wrote: »

Also, regarding most RPers being into real content, for giggles I went to fells run last night to check out what they are talking about (and throw a mudball or two) and 90% of them were less than level 20 (non-CP).

Question: why did you throw the mudball? Like you stated earlier, you've just witnessed 5+ angry RPer threads about people mudballing them, and in response you go to seek them out just to throw a few 'for giggles'. What you mean by 'giggles' however, I read as 'hoping to provoke a reaction to try and get them annoyed haha silly emotional RPers'. That's not very nice and considerate, is it?

RP is very much real and normal game content, it's just game content you don't enjoy or participate in. Why do you think all those ( over a hundred!) animated emotes exist? They're primarily there for us, the RPers. People don't need five ways to sit, or four ways to drink, during non-RP activities. Stuff like this was specifically implemented to appeal to RPers, and is very much part of 'normal' game content. I mean, this game has articles about RP on their news page, they held 'in character' AMA sessions. RP is and will always remain a very valid part of the game, whether you like it or not.

Lowbei wrote: »

Honestly that seems like a willful attempt to avoid normal game content, as most players arent going to rivenspire below 20. Theres nothing wrong with that, but it doesnt match up with your statement.

And still you disregard everything that I, as a RPer, wrote about game content, then go to check them out and make the amazing sweeping conclusion that they don't do any content because the ones you see are level 20. Has it ever occurred to you that they might have several characters? In contrast to most other MMO's out there, ESO allows us to roll a character and immediately benefit from all the fashion unlocks on our mains. So if people come up with a new idea for a RP character, it's kind of ready to go right away.

And what does 'willfully ignoring normal game content' even mean? Are they supposed to do other activities at the same time as RPing? Do you generally.. capture outposts in delves too?

I mean, no offense or anything but as an actual RPer, I think I (and other RPers) know quite a bit better what we're talking about regarding the subject, than you or any random who bumps into us for that matter. Though you'll likely find that the majority of us are very willing to teach or explain, if you're interested!^^

Lowbei · March 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

Honestly that seems like a willful attempt to avoid normal game content, as most players arent going to rivenspire below 20. Theres nothing wrong with that, but it doesnt match up with your statement.

Do you even play the game?
One Tamriel level syncing was specifically adopted so that players can play with their friends in most areas without artificial level gating.
They deliberately made "normal game content" more of what the player chooses rather than linear progression.

Im about cp1200, so yeah, I know how the game works. 90% of players xp in alikr dolmen zergs, or pay people for skyreach. those that dont, do so because they dont know about those options. even just playing with friends, XP at low levels is so fast that its hard not to be higher than level20 in a couple hours played.

I find it hard to believe that normal players who have xp’d less than 2-3 hours, are now spending hours and hours standing around in some tavern pretending to be a dragon or whatever.

Sheezabeast · March 2020

Rpers with multiple character slots often create a new character, port from Elsweyr to a clothing station to dress their new character. When their backstory and personality are developed they take them to rps. Some level them, some don't. When your sole purpose for having the character is for them to be a story element that you write about and act through, there is often less focus on PVE/PVP.

Beardimus · March 2020

Knightpanther wrote: »

I bet tons of people would love to do this for free too.

Yes and most of them will be total idiots hyped up on a power trip.

The game already has a reporting system.

be safe

Sadly the reporting function doesn't work for chests in PvP, even with evidence

Dusk_Coven · March 2020

thrashtilldeath666cub18_ESO wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

Also, regarding most RPers being into real content, for giggles I went to fells run last night to check out what they are talking about (and throw a mudball or two) and 90% of them were less than level 20 (non-CP).

Question: why did you throw the mudball? Like you stated earlier, you've just witnessed 5+ angry RPer threads about people mudballing them, and in response you go to seek them out just to throw a few 'for giggles'. What you mean by 'giggles' however, I read as 'hoping to provoke a reaction to try and get them annoyed haha silly emotional RPers'. That's not very nice and considerate, is it?

And here we touch on the real problem: Having to actually explain and defend civility and manners.

Olauron · March 2020

Lowbei wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

Honestly that seems like a willful attempt to avoid normal game content, as most players arent going to rivenspire below 20. Theres nothing wrong with that, but it doesnt match up with your statement.

Do you even play the game?
One Tamriel level syncing was specifically adopted so that players can play with their friends in most areas without artificial level gating.
They deliberately made "normal game content" more of what the player chooses rather than linear progression.

90% of players xp in alikr dolmen zergs, or pay people for skyreach. those that dont, do so because they dont know about those options. even just playing with friends, XP at low levels is so fast that its hard not to be higher than level20 in a couple hours played.

What? Where are you getting this? I know about faster options and have never used them. After my main I leveled up 9 other characters by doing story quests, delve daylies and crafting writs. My friends also don't use dolmen and skyreach options and level up alt characters in story, delves or dungeons.

doomette · March 2020

Lowbei wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

Honestly that seems like a willful attempt to avoid normal game content, as most players arent going to rivenspire below 20. Theres nothing wrong with that, but it doesnt match up with your statement.

Do you even play the game?
One Tamriel level syncing was specifically adopted so that players can play with their friends in most areas without artificial level gating.
They deliberately made "normal game content" more of what the player chooses rather than linear progression.

Im about cp1200, so yeah, I know how the game works. 90% of players xp in alikr dolmen zergs, or pay people for skyreach. those that dont, do so because they dont know about those options.

*whispers* I don’t think you know as much about the game and its players as you think you do.

Lowbei · March 2020

I will answer you, but please dont take any of this the wrong way. I am just trying to be honest, not mean in any way.

thrashtilldeath666cub18_ESO wrote: »

You base your entire statement on what threads you've seen on the forum the last few days, yet you kind of ignore what I just wrote. People get angry not because it happened to them once or twice, but because it happens to them a lot. It's much the same as those threads about fake tanks you often see. I doubt anyone would care if it happened once or twice, but it gets annoying if it's a very regular thing. And if you've read those threads, I bet you also noticed that they were full of edgy snarks towards RPers. 'RP is not normal' / 'your problems aren't relevant' / 'RPers are bad at the game' / 'RPers are weird and creepy' / 'haha go outside' etc. etc. etc.

The reason you didnt use quotation marks, is because literally none of those "exact" statements were made, but similar statements were.

I think we can all agree here that out of millions of players, less than 1% are RPers. I have played since beta and have only seen them a handful of times, and others have said the same thing on these threads.

These threads were not posted on their RPer forum, they were posted here, and if they were "full of edgy snarks towards RPers," then it seems that the average player views RPers as not "normal players." Its hard to get 51% of humans to agree on any particular thing, so when 99% of them think sitting in a tavern typing in emotes for hours on end and making no progress on your character isnt "normal gameplay," then that is probably worth noting. I probably cant even get 90%+ of people to agree that the sky is blue.

thrashtilldeath666cub18_ESO wrote: »

Question: why did you throw the mudball? Like you stated earlier, you've just witnessed 5+ angry RPer threads about people mudballing them, and in response you go to seek them out just to throw a few 'for giggles'. What you mean by 'giggles' however, I read as 'hoping to provoke a reaction to try and get them annoyed haha silly emotional RPers'. That's not very nice and considerate, is it?

RP is very much real and normal game content, it's just game content you don't enjoy or participate in. Why do you think all those ( over a hundred!) animated emotes exist? They're primarily there for us, the RPers. People don't need five ways to sit, or four ways to drink, during non-RP activities. Stuff like this was specifically implemented to appeal to RPers, and is very much part of 'normal' game content. I mean, this game has articles about RP on their news page, they held 'in character' AMA sessions. RP is and will always remain a very valid part of the game, whether you like it or not.

Ill give you an analogy that may help. Most people like dogs. If you run down a crowded street screaming something unusual, like that you hate dogs, over and over, its entirely likely that a few dog lovers are going to yell something at you that you may find upsetting. Thus, if people post threads saying they really hate when people use harmless momentos on them (and even demand ZOS ban people lol), then of course some people are going to throw a few harmless momentos at them when they see them.

Again, the average player doesnt hate RPers nor want them removed in any way. Roleplayers can play however they want, but when they start coming to the wrong forum demanding ZOS make changes because someone threw momentos, of course the normal players are going to comment in a way they disagree with.

thrashtilldeath666cub18_ESO wrote: »

And still you disregard everything that I, as a RPer, wrote about game content, then go to check them out and make the amazing sweeping conclusion that they don't do any content because the ones you see are level 20. Has it ever occurred to you that they might have several characters? In contrast to most other MMO's out there, ESO allows us to roll a character and immediately benefit from all the fashion unlocks on our mains. So if people come up with a new idea for a RP character, it's kind of ready to go right away.

And what does 'willfully ignoring normal game content' even mean? Are they supposed to do other activities at the same time as RPing? Do you generally.. capture outposts in delves too?

I mean, no offense or anything but as an actual RPer, I think I (and other RPers) know quite a bit better what we're talking about regarding the subject, than you or any random who bumps into us for that matter. Though you'll likely find that the majority of us are very willing to teach or explain, if you're interested!^^

If you want to roll level3 characters (a lot of them I saw there were level3, tutorial skip of course) and sit in taverns all night every night making no progress on your characters, then you are of course free to do that, but you have to understand that, again no offense, most players dont view this as normal gameplay. Its hard not to hit level4 just tripping on a badger on the way to the tavern.

Dusk_Coven · March 2020

Lowbei wrote: »

Im about cp1200, so yeah, I know how the game works. 90% of players xp in alikr dolmen zergs, or pay people for skyreach.

A score of players in Alik'r are 90% of the online population? o.O So only a couple are elsewhere in the entire game?

Lowbei wrote: »

Again, the average player doesnt hate RPers nor want them removed in any way. Roleplayers can play however they want, but when they start coming to the wrong forum demanding ZOS make changes because someone threw momentos, of course the normal players are going to comment in a way they disagree with.

So... someone comes on the forums to ask for a defense against being griefed in the game. For ZOS to uphold their TOS.
And... you troll them by manufacturing excuses to justify griefing players?

Lowbei wrote: »

Also, regarding most RPers being into real content, for giggles I went to fells run last night to check out what they are talking about (and throw a mudball or two) and 90% of them were less than level 20 (non-CP).

Here's an analogy for what you did: Someone was assaulted for being gay and goes to city council to complain about lack of law enforcement. So, to find out what the fuss is about, you go and assault a gay person. And you discover they were new to town -- as if this information is relevant.

Lowbei · March 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

A score of players in Alik'r are 90% of the online population? o.O So only a couple are elsewhere in the entire game?

... "90% of players xp in alikr dolmen zergs"

not 90% of all players are constantly xping. most mmo players make a character, grind it to 50, then begin playing, for numerous reasons involving abilities and stats and gear.

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

So... someone comes on the forums to ask for a defense against being griefed in the game. For ZOS to uphold their TOS.
And... you troll them by manufacturing excuses to justify griefing players?

So take a step back and look at this. You are making the assertion that use of momentos, whether its 1 mudball or 1000 mudballs, is somehow "griefing," despite it being visual effects only. This is not in the ToS. You can call it griefing if you want, but that doesnt make it so, much like how some people come to pvp and complain that people teabagging their corpse is griefing. Your emotional response to a visual only effect, does not equal harassment nor griefing. You then attempting to use that emotional response to force ZOS to change the system, is not acceptable. Anyone can get upset about anything.

For example... I dont like that a lot of players have some useless non-combat pet out, which means the server has to render 2 different art assets for every 1 player, resulting in needless fps loss. This actually negatively effects everyone in clip range, unlike momento use, but I dont go on some big angry forum campaign demanding ZOS change it because they are "griefing" my fps.

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Here's an analogy for what you did: Someone was assaulted for being gay and goes to city council to complain about lack of law enforcement. So, to find out what the fuss is about, you go and assault a gay person. And you discover they were new to town -- as if this information is relevant.

You attempting to use an actual hate crime as analogy to someone throwing mudballs at you in a video game, is just ridiculous sir. Theres really nothing else I can say on that subject that wouldnt sound mean.

barney2525 · March 2020

Lixiviant wrote: »

If you want salty, just play GTAV. This game is tame compared to that one.

And, I still love GTAV. Just saying.

I hate ackronyms

no idea what you referred to

Gaebriel0410 · March 2020

Lowbei wrote: »

I will answer you, but please dont take any of this the wrong way. I am just trying to be honest, not mean in any way.

I don't think you are mean, I just think you don't understand what you're talking about, and based on your replies don't really read what I've written either.

Lowbei wrote: »

The reason you didnt use quotation marks, is because literally none of those "exact" statements were made, but similar statements were.

I think we can all agree here that out of millions of players, less than 1% are RPers. I have played since beta and have only seen them a handful of times, and others have said the same thing on these threads.

These threads were not posted on their RPer forum, they were posted here, and if they were "full of edgy snarks towards RPers," then it seems that the average player views RPers as not "normal players." Its hard to get 51% of humans to agree on any particular thing, so when 99% of them think sitting in a tavern typing in emotes for hours on end and making no progress on your character isnt "normal gameplay," then that is probably worth noting. I probably cant even get 90%+ of people to agree that the sky is blue.

Well, no I don't agree. I have played since beta as well (1000ish CP don't worry lol I'm legit) and I see RPers all the time everywhere, and plenty of others mention them on various threads as well! Of course that's partly because I'm a roleplayer myself, but.. I guess experiences may vary? I mean, since you seem to like analogies: I rarely suffer from performance problems to the extent of some posts I read on here, but that doesn't mean those problems don't exist for others. All those percentages about the amount of RPers you that mention, are complete and utter fabrication, entirely made up to (rather weakly) support your opinion on the matter.

Lowbei wrote: »

Ill give you an analogy that may help. Most people like dogs. If you run down a crowded street screaming something unusual, like that you hate dogs, over and over, its entirely likely that a few dog lovers are going to yell something at you that you may find upsetting. Thus, if people post threads saying they really hate when people use harmless momentos on them (and even demand ZOS ban people lol), then of course some people are going to throw a few harmless momentos at them when they see them.

Again, the average player doesnt hate RPers nor want them removed in any way. Roleplayers can play however they want, but when they start coming to the wrong forum demanding ZOS make changes because someone threw momentos, of course the normal players are going to comment in a way they disagree with.

Analogies aren't needed, since the problems said people spoke of were quite clear. Besides, above analogy makes absolutely zero sense. You try to explain to me things I never mentioned: I don't think that the average player hates RP, I've never even hinted at such a thing in the slightest. In fact, I often get whispered positive remarks from random passersby, when RPing. The question you didn't answer properly however, is why you went to seek them out and threw the mudball. Is it because you think you're better than those silly emotional RPers with their silly problems, always whining about non existent issues? I bet you wouldn't agree to that assumption of mine. But why then act like you do?

Lowbei wrote: »

If you want to roll level3 characters (a lot of them I saw there were level3, tutorial skip of course) and sit in taverns all night every night making no progress on your characters, then you are of course free to do that, but you have to understand that, again no offense, most players dont view this as normal gameplay. Its hard not to hit level4 just tripping on a badger on the way to the tavern.

Once again your statement shows you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. And to be honest, you're flailing a bit here in your attempts in trying to dismiss us. While taverns are a popular way to meet other roleplayers, very few of them sit in taverns day in day out. We tend to go out in the world, making.. character progression. Yes character progression, and not as in stats but in their characters' personality and storyline. You know, like characters in books or tv shows. And even out in the world in the middle of nowhere, there are people who go out of their way to disrupt their RP for lengthy periods of time! Shocking, right?

I'm just trying to tell you that despite what you so firmly seem to believe, RP is perfectly normal gameplay. People can be either good or bad at it, and like PvP or PvE can learn and 'git gud' over time. It uses the world, setting, outfits, emotes etc. already present in game, and we make our own stories based on it. And like I wrote several times before, not that it matters but the vast majority of roleplayers I know all play other aspects of the game as well. Maybe that level 3 character you saw at the tavern is a Grand Overlord rank on his other character.

In fact, you should rejoice our presence, as an abundance of roleplayers tends to be a sign of a healthy game. And roleplayers are often considered amongst the most loyal players, since we tend to stick much longer to a game or setting that we like. We're also much less inclined to quit after some nerf or when another game comes out. And since we're all ESO players over here, that should be considered a good thing no?

Dusk_Coven · March 2020

Lowbei wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Here's an analogy for what you did: Someone was assaulted for being gay and goes to city council to complain about lack of law enforcement. So, to find out what the fuss is about, you go and assault a gay person. And you discover they were new to town -- as if this information is relevant.

You attempting to use an actual hate crime as analogy to someone throwing mudballs at you in a video game, is just ridiculous sir. Theres really nothing else I can say on that subject that wouldnt sound mean.

"A hate crime (also known as a bias-motivated crime or bias crime) is a prejudice-motivated crime which occurs when a perpetrator targets a victim because of their membership (or perceived membership) of a certain social group or race."

Since the mudballing in question was directed specifically at roleplayers (a social group), I think it's close enough.
Which is not to say griefing someone for hours is okay even if it's not motivated by their membership in any group. It's still griefing.

Gaebriel0410 · March 2020

oxygen_thief wrote: »

where can i find rprs to harass them? is there any guide how to harass them properly?

In fact, there is! You can find it inside a daedroth egg hidden in a nest located in northeastern Coldharbour. Just close your eyes, smash the egg and wait approximately thirty seconds and it will spawn. Ignore the angry sounds of gnashing teeth, that's just an audio glitch they still haven't patched out (it's kinda ridiculous really, it's been there since beta).

I hope I can expect a hefty donation of gold coins to my account as compensation for my award winning tip.

Gaebriel0410 · March 2020

Lowbei wrote: »

So take a step back and look at this. You are making the assertion that use of momentos, whether its 1 mudball or 1000 mudballs, is somehow "griefing," despite it being visual effects only. This is not in the ToS. You can call it griefing if you want, but that doesnt make it so, much like how some people come to pvp and complain that people teabagging their corpse is griefing. Your emotional response to a visual only effect, does not equal harassment nor griefing. You then attempting to use that emotional response to force ZOS to change the system, is not acceptable. Anyone can get upset about anything.

For example... I dont like that a lot of players have some useless non-combat pet out, which means the server has to render 2 different art assets for every 1 player, resulting in needless fps loss. This actually negatively effects everyone in clip range, unlike momento use, but I dont go on some big angry forum campaign demanding ZOS change it because they are "griefing" my fps.

Teabagging in PvP (despite being... kinda rude, lame and very 1999) isn't griefing. It lasts for a few seconds and then it's gone with no impact towards PvP whatsoever, you respawn and go again. The problems RPers described in these threads involved continuous mudball spam over a lengthy period of time, trying to disrupt their scene. RP very much depends on atmosphere and visuals, so of course it's considered griefing in their case.

MornaBaine · March 2020

idk wrote: »

zergbase_ESO wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Seriously, just seeing the crappy and toxic minds and attitudes on the forums is making me sick to my stomach.

Why do people need to go around fixing their crappy IRL issues by ruining the game for harmless innocent bystanders enjoying their version of the game that is ROLEPLAYING . This is F-ing bonkers and totally beyond me.

ZOS should just start hiring Seers (a volunteer lesser GM, with lesser privileges) to police the game. I bet tons of people would love to do this for free.

Might as well take care of botters and cheaters too. And it would cost ZOS no extra money on payrolls.

We moved all RP into instanced RP. Never go outside due to that. Use housing if it is that bad.

@zergbase_ESO

Just a little history of the game in regards to what you stated here.

Well before launch, Zos courted RPers by saying they would have a means to "flag" themselves for RP. It was also mentioned the same system would be used for other interests by the focused selling point was to attract the lucrative RP player base.

This system was intended to place like-minded players in the same instance but not have a dedicated instance for any interest.

Shortly before launch, Zos balked at their own proposal. It was probably due to server load or other challenges. They said they would find other means to help the RP community but never followed through.

The point is, if they could not do it as a non-dedicated means they certainly cannot do it with the absolute dedication you are suggesting.

Not knocking the though. Just explaining the history that shows how unlikely it would be.

All MMOs have a history of courting RPers in the development phase. Why? Because we tend to be early adopters, we spread the hype, and we draw other players in. Then, when it comes down to it, game companies by and large give us the finger and cease even their initial pretense at support. ZOS is no different in this regard. I and many others have witnessed truly egregious behavior by other players hellbent on disrupting any RP they see happening out in the open world. There have been calls regarding the huge level of player harassment that goes on and for ZOS to address it. That has repeatedly been ignored. From the very earliest days of the game.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162311/harrassment-already-a-larger-problem/p1

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162345/harrassment-already-a-larger-problem-take-2-a-solution#latest

This is why virtually all RP now takes place in player housing. And even though roleplayers spend a TON of money on housing our requests for housing improvements are also ignored.

There used to be in game GMs who WOULD show up as a flurry of reports were made and remove the trolls from RP events. They eventually got rid of all of them. At the end of the day, they literally don't care about this.

Lowbei · March 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

"A hate crime (also known as a bias-motivated crime or bias crime) is a prejudice-motivated crime which occurs when a perpetrator targets a victim because of their membership (or perceived membership) of a certain social group or race."

Since the mudballing in question was directed specifically at roleplayers (a social group), I think it's close enough.
Which is not to say griefing someone for hours is okay even if it's not motivated by their membership in any group. It's still griefing.

So now you are saying that mudballing people for hours, is the equivalent of a hate crime. You cant be serious.

thrashtilldeath666cub18_ESO wrote: »

Teabagging in PvP (despite being... kinda rude, lame and very 1999) isn't griefing. It lasts for a few seconds and then it's gone with no impact towards PvP whatsoever, you respawn and go again. The problems RPers described in these threads involved continuous mudball spam over a lengthy period of time, trying to disrupt their scene. RP very much depends on atmosphere and visuals, so of course it's considered griefing in their case.

Its not "their scene." Its a public area where anyone use their skills and momentos. This concept that certain non-housing areas belong to RPers, sounds like a very strange entitlement issue.

Elsonso · March 2020

Lowbei wrote: »

So if they arent more emotional (again not an insult) then why does this thread exist? I have seen 5+ angry RPer forum threads here in the last 3 days about normal players making them upset, yet zero normal player threads upset at RPers.

Honestly? Go into any complaint thread that exists here. They are all filled with "emotion". By this bar, either there ain't no "normal players" around, or RPers really have a broad amount of interest in this game.

Lowbei · March 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

So if they arent more emotional (again not an insult) then why does this thread exist? I have seen 5+ angry RPer forum threads here in the last 3 days about normal players making them upset, yet zero normal player threads upset at RPers.

Honestly? Go into any complaint thread that exists here. They are all filled with "emotion". By this bar, either there ain't no "normal players" around, or RPers really have a broad amount of interest in this game.

Yeah, but most of them arent being posted in the wrong forum section (theres an RPer forum) and demanding ZOS ban people for using visual effects.

I am filled with emotion that the Cyrodiil server seems to have coronavirus, but I post about that issue in the proper forum section regarding the alliance war, and about major issues that arent just visual effects.

Gaebriel0410 · March 2020

Lowbei wrote: »

The statement was mostly for the mods, so they dont think Im being mean or baiting. My forum account was made in 2013 and I dont need to get suspended for "being mean" while responding to RPers posting their threads in the wrong forum section

Honest question: do you also post something akin to 'go to the tech support section' every time you see a player complaining about game performance on the general forum?

Lowbei wrote: »

Yes, experiences do vary. I have only seen RPers a handful of times in 6 years.

As far as percentages, lets be real... theres hundreds of thousands of players. If even 1% of them were RPers, there would be thousands of RPers. Theres not, and I dont think you would be able to legit make that claim. There are two major RP hubs, Rivenspire and The Rift, and neither of these places have more than a dozen or two RPers at a time. Thus 99% of players not being RPers is accurate.

I've roleplayed since forever yet I've never heard of either Rivenspire or the Rift being major RP hubs. I know it's an outrageous suggestion but perhaps there's this tiny possibility of RPers also existing in places where you don't look? Or perhaps it differs per server? Once again, I think I know about the subject better than you, being an actual roleplayer myself. One community I'm in has to do frequent roster updates based on activity, in order to let in more people because of the 500 player limit. And it's far from the only large RP community out there.

Lowbei wrote: »

Theres nothing wrong with RPers and Im glad you get positive remarks from randos. Positivity is good

As a psychologist, analysis of your statement regarding people who throw mudballs as thinking they are better than you, seems to suggest an internal issue that I dont want to discuss with you here, as I am not being paid for this. The people using momentos on you do not think they are better than you, I can assure you of that.

As a Klingon oil baron, analysis of your reply regarding my comment sounds like complete nonsense. But I don't want to discuss that with you here, as I have latinum bars to count and my seven wives are washing the ferrari in their birthday suits.

But in seriousness, if you understood what I wrote in the statement you commented on with your strange 'internal issues' remark (lmao), you'd probably have seen that my comment was a funny / absurd remark as a reply to your rather ignorant and dismissive comments earlier on in the discussion. Like I already mentioned, I don't care if people mudball me, and neither have I experienced any harassment myself. But I know with 100% certainty that other roleplayers have frequently been the subject of such, and thus I will gladly and loudly condemn such atrocious behaviour.

P.S. Just in case, I'm not really a Klingon oil baron, just in case I get a free pseudo-psychological analysis about that too.

Lowbei wrote: »

Personally my only issue with RPers is that I dont want to have my chatbox bombarded by some erotic roleplay going on in the basement every time I enter a tavern to collect a quest. If you think im exaggerating, then let me introduce you to Fells Run in Rivenspire. Right now, like right now while Im typing this, there are multiple people in the basement of this tavern writing some really gross stuff in emotes, full chat boxes of it. There are kids who play this game, and its entirely possible that one of the players downstairs in the basement getting hit on by some orc, is a child. This is not acceptable. If that were some other chat elsewhere on the internet, the feds might get involved.

I know that isnt "most roleplayers," but that kind of stuff never happens with normal players, as its an RP thing.

Funny, as in my six years of roleplay I've never seen people doing erotic roleplay in public, ever. And you, who allegedly run into only a handful of roleplayers, frequently run into the saucy stuff? Such a coincidence!

To me it sounds like you are grasping to save face after being called out for mudballing RPers, so now you bring out the 'I'm a psychologist, are you okay??' and 'but the children, what about the ERP!' cards for an easy crowd pleaser.

I mean sure, I bet some roleplayers do spicy scenes like that. But in public? No way. If you see that stuff.. those people are not roleplayers., No roleplayer I know condones public ERP. People heavily condemn stuff like that. Doing that out in the open is considered a taboo in pretty much every community, and rightly so. Like I said, it's almost like a convenient card you pull out, to ''''prove'''' that roleplayers are weird after all.