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Why does zos feel the need to change the game all the time instead of fixing it
ricklaverd
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I spent over 5k on this game in 6yrs if not 10k . i wish i hadnt. Every patch comes with changes no one wants or asked for but tolerates them. Feels like a worse game everytime and a different game. eso is in constant decline of quality just new contant n crates. Ifs this pts goes to live everyone are saying they will quit like ive nvr seen befor. we want to be able to cast abilities even if it meens bluescreen here n there. stop making useless changes to game when its broke in many places
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rpa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Simple, tweaking things is much easier than fixing. Fixing even a minor bug can be a major effort depending what kind of undocumented spaghetti bowl it's buried in. Like finding that you have to change a certain '|' to '&' to stop hackers stealing your data. (That's a real example I once found which allowed unsecured access to all pages in an embedded webserver code. Never got response back when I reported it.)1 -
Jjitsuboy98✭✭✭✭They made an amazing game which all their big players quit because ZOS couldn’t fix legitimate issues. They will not listen. They do not care. They introduce non sensical Nostradamus prophecy changes that they think is great but all in all I can’t break a cc and my dizzy swing just chopped down a tree five years ago while I’m buried Jjboy last of my name under a lumber mill outpost. 🤷♂️3 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You’re assuming fixing isn’t change.
Maybe changing is all about trying to fix things. Despite everyone appearing to sport rose tinted glasses, there never was a ‘golden’ age of ESO where everything was perfect and no one whined like spoilt children on the forums.
Change in the game is a consequence of both trying to adapt the game to player behaviour (to prevent single meta build dominance and encourage build and play diversity) and to reduce load on servers, which patently could not cope with the game.
The ideal is for change to fix issues. Whether they fix them in a way that satisfies you (or indeed anyone) is a moot point.3 -
MirkoZ✭✭✭✭You’re assuming fixing isn’t change.
Maybe changing is all about trying to fix things. Despite everyone appearing to sport rose tinted glasses, there never was a ‘golden’ age of ESO where everything was perfect and no one whined like spoilt children on the forums.
Change in the game is a consequence of both trying to adapt the game to player behaviour (to prevent single meta build dominance and encourage build and play diversity) and to reduce load on servers, which patently could not cope with the game.
The ideal is for change to fix issues. Whether they fix them in a way that satisfies you (or indeed anyone) is a moot point.
Did you have any problems/bug with LA/HA?1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ricklaverd wrote: »I spent over 5k on this game in 6yrs if not 10k . i wish i hadnt. Every patch comes with changes no one wants or asked for but tolerates them. Feels like a worse game everytime and a different game. eso is in constant decline of quality just new contant n crates. Ifs this pts goes to live everyone are saying they will quit like ive nvr seen befor. we want to be able to cast abilities even if it meens bluescreen here n there. stop making useless changes to game when its broke in many places
If you have spent 5k, if not 10k, over 6 years then you should know that the world is always ending here. Always. There is no such thing as a good change to the game. There is no such thing as a good fix, a good skills update, or a good class update. These things do not happen. Instead, everything that is done, and it does not matter what it is, is bad for the game and the game will be closing doors in only a matter of months.
Anyone who says otherwise is a "white knight", not paying attention, or is not part of the little PVP/PVE/EndGame/Elite/Solo//MMO/YA clique that matters.
This is the one thing that does not change.
The result? More people playing the game. More need for server capacity. More predictions that ESO is going belly-up because ZOS does not see that they need more server capacity. More people leaving like never before because ZOS is not paying attention to the servers.
If history is any indication of the future (which we know it is not), the LA/HA changes will be followed by a major increase in players, so ZOS should start preparing.
As to your question... ZOS is frequently changing the game. Weekly, in some cases. Quarterly, most of the time. They have said repeatedly that they are going to do this. They are not finished with the game, and I consider it to be a work in progress. These changes include fixes, or ways around the need to fix something. Some changes are popular. Some changes are not. Some changes break things. Some changes fix things.
When things go bad, the only question in my mind is how long it will take them to fix it, and whether I can work around it until they do. If I can work around it, I do. So far, ZOS has not released any "game ending" change that I could not work around and continue about my life.Edited by Elsonso on March 24, 2020 11:59AMXBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus2 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You’re assuming fixing isn’t change.
Change in the game is a consequence of both trying to adapt the game to player behaviour (to prevent single meta build dominance and encourage build and play diversity) and to reduce load on servers, which patently could not cope with the game.
This is the reason they do this sort of thing. They do not want meta build dominance and given they are adding this to pts now could be do to two reasons them having to test this stuff on Pts because of the Corona thing or because they want to release these changes before Greymoor because they know they might be less popular before the Big Greymoor Update which they will put the bulk of the performance updates and will be used to make get new players and investment. Its possible they are being more careful about how they do these types of updates. So it could be for any number of the following reasons.PC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.3 -
Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭My vampire feels broken with drain essence stun completely in wrong place. My Melee sorcerer who was great fun to play with dizzying swing, feels like she hits stuff with wet noodle now that dizzying swing does not trhow enemies anymore. Sometimes my heavy attack just wont work on lightning/restporation staves, I aim at the target but the staff acts as if the target is far from reticle..
My new necromancer class I just made feels completely wrong. She is constantly ridiculed by NPC necromancer in the world who can summon and control armies of dead.. They shout at me "Look, a necromancer that cant even properly raise a skeleton, it exploded HAHAHAHA" or You just summoned gravestones out of the ground? WTF is this? You trying to confuse us?" or "HAHAHAHA... A heaöling necromancer.. Look how I can instead leech this life essence from you" or "Look, a flesh atronach that just looks angry and hits ground few times LOL"... ETC.. Its not a necromancer from TES at all.. It is a mock up of WOW, GW2 and various other games with deathnigts and stuff...
My warden is stuck with a bear, NPC wardens have variety of pets.. The wardens abilities are themed to Morrowind while NPC enemies have all the cool stuff. The warden healing mostly fits argonian or dunmer..
Mages cant properly keep up a ward more than 6 seconds and lots more.. The game WAS great when it launched and while I still love adventuring, the fun character builds have been reduced to very few actual fun toi play for me builds.
Don't get me wrong, I understand completely the need to balance classes in PVP and preventing various exploits, but lets just keep abilities fun for PVE shall we.. I don't want to hate the PVP players but I do, because I can always see someone complaining some stuff that is great fun on PVE and then the fun is lost because PVP complained.. While in reality, its ZOS not caring enough to make different mechanics for PVP and PVE.>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<5 -
ricklaverd✭✭✭im just triggered think my magblade my templar will be even more ass in pve. will this change impact werwolfes and overload too?0
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wolfbone✭✭✭✭✭cos they can deliver on changing things nobody asked for but they cant on providing fixes for the already severely *** game performance, just like bethesda.
remember when bethesda was respected in the gaming industry?
I remember...1 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Simple, tweaking things is much easier than fixing. Fixing even a minor bug can be a major effort depending what kind of undocumented spaghetti bowl it's buried in. Like finding that you have to change a certain '|' to '&' to stop hackers stealing your data. (That's a real example I once found which allowed unsecured access to all pages in an embedded webserver code. Never got response back when I reported it.)
Tweaking would have been changing the CP star for Light attack strength. Instead t hey turned the combat on its head during a time when they should be trying to not stress people out during a global pandemic and the abysmal performance this game has atm.0 -
G1Countdown✭✭✭✭✭They do this because they believe change equals progress. If they can't or aren't capable of fixing the massive bugs issues in the games at least they can create the illusion of progress.3 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Performance and game balance are completely different teams same for those that make the stuff for the crates. Different teams doing different things.1 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭ricklaverd wrote: »I spent over 5k on this game in 6yrs if not 10k . i wish i hadnt. Every patch comes with changes no one wants or asked for but tolerates them. Feels like a worse game everytime and a different game. eso is in constant decline of quality just new contant n crates. Ifs this pts goes to live everyone are saying they will quit like ive nvr seen befor. we want to be able to cast abilities even if it meens bluescreen here n there. stop making useless changes to game when its broke in many places
Every patch everyone says they're going to leave and they never do. Stop listening to the doom posters they do this every time a patch drops over anything they can.1 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You’re assuming fixing isn’t change.
Maybe changing is all about trying to fix things. Despite everyone appearing to sport rose tinted glasses, there never was a ‘golden’ age of ESO where everything was perfect and no one whined like spoilt children on the forums.
Change in the game is a consequence of both trying to adapt the game to player behaviour (to prevent single meta build dominance and encourage build and play diversity) and to reduce load on servers, which patently could not cope with the game.
The ideal is for change to fix issues. Whether they fix them in a way that satisfies you (or indeed anyone) is a moot point.
Yeah, like the change to Iceheart fixed what? More often than not change is about a current dev team's "vision" of what the game should be...and completely divorced from what players enjoy.3 -
Klad✭✭✭✭ricklaverd wrote: »I spent over 5k on this game in 6yrs if not 10k .
Really?
I wouldn't admit that if god himself was standing in front of me.1 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Simple, tweaking things is much easier than fixing. Fixing even a minor bug can be a major effort depending what kind of undocumented spaghetti bowl it's buried in. Like finding that you have to change a certain '|' to '&' to stop hackers stealing your data. (That's a real example I once found which allowed unsecured access to all pages in an embedded webserver code. Never got response back when I reported it.)
All true, but I don't think the OP was talking about bugs. I believe he is referring to changes to skills/combat systems - such as what is apparently a big change in light and heavy attacks that is due to come out.
IMHO
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Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
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Looks like they are fixing it. And I agree with someone above that they want to fix it before Greymoor. Lowering average APM from players will lower stress on server and will increase performance.ricklaverd wrote: »I spent over 5k on this game in 6yrs if not 10k . i wish i hadnt. Every patch comes with changes no one wants or asked for but tolerates them. Feels like a worse game everytime and a different game. eso is in constant decline of quality just new contant n crates. Ifs this pts goes to live everyone are saying they will quit like ive nvr seen befor. we want to be able to cast abilities even if it meens bluescreen here n there. stop making useless changes to game when its broke in many placesThe Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.0 -
5cript✭✭✭✭Random Forum Dudes: "Server cant handle good players"
ZOS: "destroys gameplay to save servers"
Forum People: "Yeeaaah, heroes! You saved the game"
Everyone with a brain: "***?"
Reality: Performance gets worse and more bugs happen.
Forum People: *suprised pikachu*Edited by 5cript on March 25, 2020 4:54PM2 -
AMeanOne✭✭✭✭✭
Looks like they are fixing it. And I agree with someone above that they want to fix it before Greymoor. Lowering average APM from players will lower stress on server and will increase performance.ricklaverd wrote: »I spent over 5k on this game in 6yrs if not 10k . i wish i hadnt. Every patch comes with changes no one wants or asked for but tolerates them. Feels like a worse game everytime and a different game. eso is in constant decline of quality just new contant n crates. Ifs this pts goes to live everyone are saying they will quit like ive nvr seen befor. we want to be able to cast abilities even if it meens bluescreen here n there. stop making useless changes to game when its broke in many places
Why would there be a lower APM? You would still need to light attack as you normally do now, but instead for sustain.0 -
valeriiya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe their strategy is to make us so mad about skill changes that we will forget about the performance issue for a little while? or maybe they are just trying to push people out of the game and hoping that will fix performance?1 -
xXMeowMeowXx✭✭✭✭✭
✭ESO+ is not working on Xbox, PS4 is having trouble just loading ESO, PC plays worse than console sometimes since the patch.
Sorry but all these problems are the signs of a broken game far past just server issues.
When something is broken, you focus on the issues and fix them by importance.
ZOS’ has failed in that. Failed with fixing things and with the proper communication with their playerbase/customers.
Goodwill and civility go both ways during these times.
Knowing this, ZOS could of focused on the many other issues above, rather then start this random pre-PTS.
They certainly know people are passionate about ESO and it brings many people joy. Simply put such a possible major change should of waited.
Since update 25 it seems that for ESO it is understaffed and it is not getting the proper resources to really fix things.
Maybe we are spending too much on ESO and they are spending too little on ESO....
Edited by xXMeowMeowXx on March 25, 2020 5:20PM0 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
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Why would everyone do it for sustain if the almost universal feedback is "sustain is good enough now"? Just because they can for no other reason?
Looks like they are fixing it. And I agree with someone above that they want to fix it before Greymoor. Lowering average APM from players will lower stress on server and will increase performance.ricklaverd wrote: »I spent over 5k on this game in 6yrs if not 10k . i wish i hadnt. Every patch comes with changes no one wants or asked for but tolerates them. Feels like a worse game everytime and a different game. eso is in constant decline of quality just new contant n crates. Ifs this pts goes to live everyone are saying they will quit like ive nvr seen befor. we want to be able to cast abilities even if it meens bluescreen here n there. stop making useless changes to game when its broke in many places
Why would there be a lower APM? You would still need to light attack as you normally do now, but instead for sustain.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.0 -
precambria✭✭✭✭✭I have never seen a company try with such conviction to destroy their own product.1 -
Ashnarug✭✭✭✭two words: JOB SECURITYDuring the afternoon of Loredas, 6 Sun’s Dawn 2e578 a big piece of Aetherius fell to Nirn. It was the first major piece of Aetherius to fall on Nirn in more than five hundred years. It scattered around the world as millions of shards. It was rapidly documented by Lady Cinnabar of Taneth in her pamphlet Aetherial Fragments that "... when three shards meet, they re-form into a silvery prism by unknown process and confer the power unlocked by the merger to a nearby being." The Order of the Black Worm, commonly known as the Worm Cult, reappeared in Tamriel shortly thereafter and some of its members are avidly searching said shards.
In the last week of First Seed 2e579, an arcane explosion occurred in the Imperial City — a night of storms, and trembling terrain. They named it the "Soulburst". That day Emperor Varen Aquilarios disappeared without a trace. His wife, Clivia Tharn, ascended to the Ruby Throne as Empress Regent under the guidance of the Necromancer Mannimarco. Ushering a time of increased instability within the Empire of Cyrodiil which finally grew into “The Three Banners War”.0 -
5cript✭✭✭✭
That is only true for coordinated trial groups. They have enough sustain from supports.Why would everyone do it for sustain if the almost universal feedback is "sustain is good enough now"? Just because they can for no other reason?
Its not true for dungeon runners, they have a much harder time sustaining.
progression trials make a very little part of server population. Microscopically small
Edited by 5cript on March 25, 2020 5:49PM0 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭ricklaverd wrote: »I spent over 5k on this game in 6yrs if not 10k
They got your money, so who cares man. We would have these mounts in the price of the base game / eso+ if not people like you. As you can see, these money are not spent on paying better servers or hiring more developers. If you will close closely then you will notice that this game haven't changed THAT much in the past 7 years. Stuff they are adding is even worse quality than some free mods on Nexus to single player games such as Skyrim.0 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
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And they will maybe try to get more sustain from LA-weaving. Or not. Sustain is not damage and as such the burden of sustain can be shifted to healers. One way or the other I think ZOS will look at feedback and change the system so that LA-weaving is helpful but not necessary. I don't think they suddenly decided to change combat just to help Low-APM players (especially because they anticipated the reaction). The reason is much more important and it is likely the performance.
That is only true for coordinated trial groups. They have enough sustain from supports.Why would everyone do it for sustain if the almost universal feedback is "sustain is good enough now"? Just because they can for no other reason?
Its not true for dungeon runners, they have a much harder time sustaining.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.0
