My ideas for tightly clumped pvp'ers

Increase the damage of siege weapons per target hit.

Change Inevitable Detonation: If the bomb is dispelled or removed early, the explosion is triggered immediately and the damage is increased from 25% per target to 40% per target.

Ball groups are one of the easiest things to deal with in Cyrodiil. Just don’t try to take them all by yourself and when they do their inevitable push, stand 20 yards to the left or right. The weakness of the ball group is that they can’t - or won’t - turn. You can get 5, 10 or even 20+ kills in minutes just picking off players on the flank.

Conversely if you find a ball group and die more than say, twice, you’re doing it wrong. Just go somewhere else.

No. Join a zergball and have fun with us.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Make siege OP again. Problem solved. They can't play in a ballgroup if they're dead like the last time it was OP. They were too busy here complaining on the forum about how a giant rock isn't supposed to kill them.

The reason the siege damage was reverted both of the times ZOS did it (first intentionally with Summerset and then with a bug) is that if the siege damage is enough to wreck a tightly organized team with dedicated healers, its absolute murder on anyone less coordinated. It also turns keep defenses into lengthy, protracted sieges where players try to knock down multiple walls just to make it through the breach, and if there's one thing that Cyrodiil can't handle well performance wise, its giant, protracted battles.

In any case, ZOS already tried it. Why would they bring back increased siege damage when it didn't work out for them the first time?

You're replying to a post that was pretty much satire. The last sentence should've been obvious.

Edit; Furthermore you seem to think that my post was about performance. Fun fact, it wasn't. It was the fact that people stood willingly in the dumb then turned around and complained about it on the forum.

Sephyr wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Make siege OP again. Problem solved. They can't play in a ballgroup if they're dead like the last time it was OP. They were too busy here complaining on the forum about how a giant rock isn't supposed to kill them.

The reason the siege damage was reverted both of the times ZOS did it (first intentionally with Summerset and then with a bug) is that if the siege damage is enough to wreck a tightly organized team with dedicated healers, its absolute murder on anyone less coordinated. It also turns keep defenses into lengthy, protracted sieges where players try to knock down multiple walls just to make it through the breach, and if there's one thing that Cyrodiil can't handle well performance wise, its giant, protracted battles.

In any case, ZOS already tried it. Why would they bring back increased siege damage when it didn't work out for them the first time?

You're replying to a post that was pretty much satire. The last sentence should've been obvious.

Edit; Furthermore you seem to think that my post was about performance. Fun fact, it wasn't. It was the fact that people stood willingly in the dumb then turned around and complained about it on the forum.

Sorry, I've ordered a new sarcasm detector. At the rate I go through them, I should just get a subscription service.

Truth is, I've seen the argument for increased siege damage as a counter to ball groups made in all sincerity, especially after the time ZOS bugged it out. Hence my confusion.

But I certainly agree with you that whether its PVP or PVE, if you stand in stupid, you look silly if complain when you die.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Make siege OP again. Problem solved. They can't play in a ballgroup if they're dead like the last time it was OP. They were too busy here complaining on the forum about how a giant rock isn't supposed to kill them.

The reason the siege damage was reverted both of the times ZOS did it (first intentionally with Summerset and then with a bug) is that if the siege damage is enough to wreck a tightly organized team with dedicated healers, its absolute murder on anyone less coordinated. It also turns keep defenses into lengthy, protracted sieges where players try to knock down multiple walls just to make it through the breach, and if there's one thing that Cyrodiil can't handle well performance wise, its giant, protracted battles.

In any case, ZOS already tried it. Why would they bring back increased siege damage when it didn't work out for them the first time?

You're replying to a post that was pretty much satire. The last sentence should've been obvious.

Edit; Furthermore you seem to think that my post was about performance. Fun fact, it wasn't. It was the fact that people stood willingly in the dumb then turned around and complained about it on the forum.

Sorry, I've ordered a new sarcasm detector. At the rate I go through them, I should just get a subscription service.

Truth is, I've seen the argument for increased siege damage as a counter to ball groups made in all sincerity, especially after the time ZOS bugged it out. Hence my confusion.

But I certainly agree with you that whether its PVP or PVE, if you stand in stupid, you look silly if complain when you die.

No worries. People are just so focused on performance, it's gotten rather exasperating to say the least. Everyone has their opinions on it and it's something I'd just rather not because it's a dumpster fire either way one goes.

My post is merely about the chaos. For the entirety of the bug the front page was plastered with "OH MY GOD NERF THIS, THIS IS AWFUL". And then zone chat was super spicy. People complaining that their group was just wiped by siege because they just stood there. Those were the days that made life worth living.

Iskiab wrote: »

I think if performance was ever fixed ball groups wouldn’t be an issue. Poor performance hits cast time abilities hardest for some reason, if inevitable det actually worked most wouldn’t last long.

Most of why they work is eye of the storm, prox det, etc... all the things to blow up melee if they get close work, while at the same time the abilities people need to counter them from range don’t work.

Lag favors the zerg, not the ball group.

pieratsos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

What is ZOS gonna do? Nerf teamwork? Eliminate all voice comms?

A. ZOS can't give out some sort of magic skill or set that will let players kill the ball groups. They've tried. Everything they do promptly gets used to even better effect by the organized ball groups against everyone else.

B. ZOS can't do anything to fix players stacking up in large battles when that's exactly what Cyrodiil is designed to create: large battles over important keeps and objectives. And if those ball groups spread out and take less important objectives, then players complain that they are PvDooring or farming players. So even if you dropped the max group size to 8 to 12, you'd still see large battles and coordinated groups running together.

I chuckle every time I read this argument. Since when are ball groups and large scale fights the same thing. Are you seriously telling people that Cyrodiil was designed for groups of 20 people stacking into one square inch and moving in a straight line spamming AOEs? And since when is teamwork and ball groups the same thing?

Cyrodiil was indeed originally designed for groups of 8 to 24 players. It was right there on the Alliance groupfinder (later changed to groups of 2 to 24, then removed because ZOS figured out that the vast majority of groups use voice comms or zone chat to group up). ZOS probably didn't have those particular tactics in mind at launch, but that's hardly the only example of things they didn't anticipate *cough* animation canceling *cough*.

Cyrodiil is also designed to get large fights going over important objectives like home keeps, Emperorship and scrolls, which can involve anything from ball groups to PUG raids to faction-stacked zergs. Given that the server can't handle large fights very well, even removing ball groups entirely wouldn't actually solve Cyrodiil's performance issues.

As for teamwork? I'm not sure how using ball groups using voice comms, coordinating their sets and group composition, and moving as a disciplined unit on the battlefield doesn't qualify as teamwork. Its certainly a heck of a lot better teamwork than I see out of the average LFG raid in zone chat where half the people don't bring siege or peel off from the fight as soon as they see a squirrel. But maybe you have a different definition of teamwork you'd like to share?

I just think they need to make siege stronger in CP campaigns. Kind of like how it is in Under 50 campaign. You will die if you ignore the fact if you are being sieged.