Should Zos do something about ballgroups in cyrodiil ?

dennissomb16_ESO

Should ZOS do something as far as improving performance that can be severely hampered when large fights are going on (including large ball groups) then the answer is of course yes. Should ZOS do something so ball groups are not allowed... absolutely not. Choice of how people want to play is what makes Cyrodiil fun.

dsalter

fun fact, inevitable detonation has an scaling cap. Prox det does not.

easiest way to buff the only skill that was intended to bust up ball groups (inevitable detonation) would be to either double its base damage or remove the max target damage scaling.

if someone can 1shot a ball because of stupid stacking thats their own problem for being easily played into a skill thats intended to counter them.

Detonation just needs to be nerfed so it cant allow you to stealth while active so no more det bombblades being able to troll small groups, these det bombblades refuse to target blobs because they are spineless.

TL:DR = nerf prox det & remove inevitable det max player count cap or double its base damage.

Mr_Walker

Abyssmol wrote: »

RedGirl41 wrote: »

They created massive Alliance zergs by giving 6k free Ap for taking even empty keeps. If that wasn’t a thing they wouldnt faction stack as bad (obviously there will still be massive groups)

Agree. ZOS should reduce the number of AP given by the total number of players in a group - let's say after 4 players in a group start reducing AP earned by X percentage.

Hmmm. MYM, maps almost hums as folk are out there taking objectives. It's almost like AP makes the map move....

Dumb idea.

Hexquisite

I feel that because of the server bad performance, population is lower, and this actually causes more faction stacks, as people want action and seems like lately all the action is in one place. Even when its its pop locked there are so many less players than there were a few years ago.

Believe me, i go deep into an enemy territory and take something, and no one responds in a timely fashion....you pretty much have to cut off a keep to get any response, and even then you might have to move to the next keep.

It's not as simple as just avoid the ballgroup, although personally if I have the right group I like to fight them:)

Mr_Walker

Some of you appear to be confusing faction stacks with ballgroups. Faction stacks are relatively easy to handle, provided you have a competent pug leader. Ball groups are harder to deal with unless you're in a group that knows what they're doing.

technohic

Ball groups can do what they want. Purge should be looked at though. A lot of potential the more effects removed makes for a lot if healing and nothing sticks including CC. Should require a synergy like ER.

Karmanorway

Yes they should adress it. I always wonder how those ballgroups can keep doing this bs with a good conscience. 🤔 They know perfectly well they are ruining the game experience for everyone else, its very selfish imo. Makes it all the sweeter when u catch one of them alone without their training wheels 🤣

SmukkeHeks

Ball groups are only fun for the one that has the crown. Rest isn’t really about strategy, just blindly follow the marker on screen. It’s not skills, it’s just eyesight...

Minyassa

Just stay away from them. Ballgroups are even more necessary now and we're going to see more of them because BGs have gone solo and now PvEers who need skills can now only feel safe in numbers in Cyrodiil, where they were ordered to go if they want to play with friends. Used to be that they'd be directed to BGs where they could get through that with more experienced people to make it less confusing and more fun but now Cyrodiil is the only option.

Tommy_The_Gun

Add an algorytm / script that will detect & report player ping, back to the server. If the overal "lag" will pass certain treshold for long enough period of time for many players in the area - then it will proritize dropping / kicking grouped players over solo / ungrouped ones. There - ball groups will start kicking themselves...

Rave the Histborn

Carespanker wrote: »

Abyssmol wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

Why should they do anything with it? It's another form of "Nerf X because it killed me"

Because ballgroups lag Cyrodiil. 300 Players in 1 chunk fighting over a keep at 3 fps is not fun. I haven't died to a zerg in ages unless I literally could not fight back due to lag lol.

Just don't engage ballgroups. Go take other keep while the ballgroup is concentrating on one spot.

I don't pay 140$ a month for internet just to have to be forced to avoid people in pvp lol.

Then engage them in PVP? You can't expect ZOS to do something about zergs lol

Xandreia_

You have a choice when it comes to ball groups, fight them and most likely die or walk away and stop feeding them ap, if you keep going back that's a you issue not the game 🤷🏼‍♀️

Zos wont do anything about it since they want the game to be more group combat based!

Reyleigh

ballgroups put a way heavier strain on the server than a regular zerg, thats what needs to be addressed, i couldn't care less about ballgroups if not for the fact that the game becomes a potato everytime there's one around
All this talk about nerfs, learning how to deal with them, etc is beside the point (you can't deal with them if you can't cast skills to begin with)

BaiterOfZergs

Are we talking ball zergs or ball groups ? Because even small mans use ball group tactics as well. So how do you really go about “balancing” that without hurting small groups?

Luke_Flamesword

Problem is server performance, not ballgroups - it's freaking war and should look like one. I think it's balanced anyway if we look from wider perspective. If 2 or even 3 big groups stack together in one place then yeah, they unstoppable and laggy as hell but it means that there almost nobody in other parts of map, so few smaller team can take 3 keeps when they take only one. It's good tactics for AP farming, but not for winning campaign. I see wiser human resources managment in DC and they often have good results with it, so game looks quite balanced with this aspect.

This also reason why Cyrodiil must be so big - if somewhere is very big ballgroup, you can attack right keeps and block teleporting for them in some areas of map, which can be used against stacked players. They will lost a lot before they horse-ride half map

People are complaining about size of map, but I can imagine on smaller map only ballgroups as only working tactic and huge lag with it... brrr. no thanks...

Cirantille

Tbf if you let them run around the keeps they give quite good defense tick

Grianasteri

Reyleigh wrote: »

A certain faction in no cp has 3 ballzergs, making the game an absolute unplayable garbage when facing them, but it seems they're not affected by it or at least not as much as their opponents
Should this be adressed ?
I know there's a boatload of things that should be adressed right now, but still wth ?

Ive genuinely no idea what a "ballzerg" is, but it sounds sexy.

EDIT: having read, I know understand. Yeah the laag is real. Its silly when the groups are that large. No idea how to address it though, other than improve game performance properly.

Grianasteri

Velocious_Curse wrote: »

RedGirl41 wrote: »

They created massive Alliance zergs by giving 6k free Ap for taking even empty keeps. If that wasn’t a thing they wouldnt faction stack as bad (obviously there will still be massive groups)

Yeah well if they went back to 1k for a keep everyone would cry about not making AP.
The fact is, PvP is LARGE SCALE fights. No one wants a Cyrodiil where it's small groups against other small groups.

I do like small groups, thats when it performs best. The vision was clearly huge large scale battles, but its literally never been able to cope with that in any way shape or form, which is a shame.

So, I prefer small groups, thanks. Once you get up to double figures vs similar, thats as large as I am comfortable with, the laag is just unplayable beyond this, and even at that level it can be pretty poor at times.

Smaller fights are great fun. Had a lovely time in a group of 5 or 6 last night. Biggest group we fought while I was there was about 5.

FierceSam

No ZOS should not do anything about ball groups.

It’s a totally appropriate strategy for large scale medieval style warfare, which is what Cyrodiil fundamentally is. Large numbers of combatants will usually defeat smaller numbers irrespective of player abilities. You can’t really moan about it if you can’t raise the numbers. Nor can you moan if players adopt strategies and tactics that prevent you from killing them.

There are effective strategies for dealing with them that don’t require any action from ZOS (other than general improvements to game performance).

I’d rather ZOS concentrated their efforts on the big picture of performance improvements as opposed to fine tuning everyone’s personal bugbear.

technohic

I am convinced people pick up terms for things and associate them to entirely different things.

DivineFirstYOLO

RedGirl41 wrote: »

They created massive Alliance zergs by giving 6k free Ap for taking even empty keeps. If that wasn’t a thing they wouldnt faction stack as bad (obviously there will still be massive groups)

@RedGirl41
100% this, good to see there are some ppl left that actually want to PvP and not simply zerg emty keeps. hope they will change the free 6k tick one day. #nopowertozergs

bmnoble

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding this performance issues aside the whole point of Cyrodiil is for mid to large scale groups to fight each other?

Even if they get the performance to the point where there is next to no lag and every ones skills activate the moment you press the buttons, there is no way to balance large groups of players fighting each other.

You get attacked by a group of skilled coordinated players with voice chat, your going to die, no amount of nerfing of skills or gear or a large PUG group is going to change that.


They have already taken away the grouping option in battlegrounds and have received back lash from some and the usual quit-ing threads have shown up.

Can you imagine how much worse a scale that would be on if they prevented grouping in Cyrodiil.


They originally intended for Cyrodiil to be the end game content when they launched the game did they seriously have no long term plans for performance or did they just assume PVP would not be popular enough for them to bother with.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

Ball groups only work because they are not tackled right, they only work when they are together, a effective way to deal with them is chains and silver leash, drag them out of there group, so say if all have this, you target one and keep on that one, until u drag them out, and then all pounce on the one dragged out, if done right u can pull quite a few out if not all. so if you surround them and say another group of 24 does this and then ball groups wont be a problem

Iskiab

Issue is moreso performance. When skills stop working in heavily populated areas it’s like another defense for organized groups countering opponent’s burst.

Use hots - opponents can only fire one skill every 3 tries - profit.

Nocturnalan

Yes, fix the servers.

Kadoin

You don't like fighting against a bunch of players and their proc sets instead of skills?

Why, I never...!

You should be ashamed of yourself!

Kidgangster101

VaranisArano wrote: »

What is ZOS gonna do? Nerf teamwork? Eliminate all voice comms?

A. ZOS can't give out some sort of magic skill or set that will let players kill the ball groups. They've tried. Everything they do promptly gets used to even better effect by the organized ball groups against everyone else.

B. ZOS can't do anything to fix players stacking up in large battles when that's exactly what Cyrodiil is designed to create: large battles over important keeps and objectives. And if those ball groups spread out and take less important objectives, then players complain that they are PvDooring or farming players. So even if you dropped the max group size to 8 to 12, you'd still see large battles and coordinated groups running together.

Don't say that...... Look what they did to BG lol. The "solo" players got group play removed because they cried......

It's not out of the realm of possibilities that they get grouping removed from cyrodil to......

JamieAubrey

They did, they added Proxy Bombs to tackle them but guess what ? they now use these builds

VaranisArano

bmnoble wrote: »

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding this performance issues aside the whole point of Cyrodiil is for mid to large scale groups to fight each other?

Even if they get the performance to the point where there is next to no lag and every ones skills activate the moment you press the buttons, there is no way to balance large groups of players fighting each other.

You get attacked by a group of skilled coordinated players with voice chat, your going to die, no amount of nerfing of skills or gear or a large PUG group is going to change that.


They have already taken away the grouping option in battlegrounds and have received back lash from some and the usual quit-ing threads have shown up.

Can you imagine how much worse a scale that would be on if they prevented grouping in Cyrodiil.


They originally intended for Cyrodiil to be the end game content when they launched the game did they seriously have no long term plans for performance or did they just assume PVP would not be popular enough for them to bother with.

They had a plan. Then cheat engine happened and a bunch of functions that ZOS previously trusted the client to handle had to get moved to server side. Performance predictably got worse.

People. We're why we can't have nice things.

JanTanhide

Yes, they should all be perma banned! That will fix em! /S

And the threads get even stranger....