Is this legit animation cancelling?

RinaldoGandolphi · February 2020

AC at its core is basically a health desync. Gilliam pretty much talked about this in his video. The game wasn't designed with AC in mind so when you weave or que attacks with cast time abilities it causes the server to desync the health of the client on the receiving end hence why often times your combat log will show say Dizzy and light/heavy attack landing in the same timestamp simply because the way the server is designed it cant so it any other way.

Please understand I'm not advocating against AC. Without it combat would not be as fluid, but I do think they could fix the server side issues while leaving the fluidity of combat in place. No one wants cooldowns or cast times.

As it stands now I'd rather they keep the current bugged AC then make combat clunky. If only they had designed the server side a little better.

MartiniDaniels · February 2020

exeeter702 wrote: »

Nightwiish wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

There have been scenarios where people can replicate macro slice like combos, but these have been debunked by zos already as being client side visual bugs that have no bearing on the target.

He is speaking the truth.

As someone who have extensively tested this, I believe posting videos of successful re-creation of "Macro Slice" "Animation cancel" helps a lot in these conversations.

Here two of my videos of what is called a "Macro Slice". One with Dizzying Swing and another with Jabs. As confirmed above both of these are visual bugs on the client side

Dizzying Swing - Macro Slice Visual bug 2 Dizzying back to back
https://youtu.be/jDW7ieQsp7E

Biting Jabs - Macro Slice Visual bug damage from first jabs is registering but visual is not
https://youtu.be/8yCUiaEAn4M

msalvia wrote: »

Sincere, salt-free question here, as I'm trying to get my pvp game up. Recently was playing in IC and kept fighting another player (same guy each time). We fought 4 different times, and each time, the guy managed to land (per my death summary) a d-swing, 2h heavy attack, and executioner is under 1 second. At first I thought it was a desync, but the exact same combo killed me 4 different times, all in >1 second, no exaggeration. Seemingly, that all hit me in the same instant.

If this is a real animation cancel strategy, I want to learn it! Does anyone have any experience with this? I'm ok at ACing, but haven't ever found a way to make 2 abilities with cast times hit at the same time, let alone adding an executioner to the mix.

Thanks in advance. Help me L2P and "get gud," all you ESO geniuses.

It is really a L2P issue.This is entirely possible and even as quick as .300 and .500 secs to have Dizzying Swing>Medium Weave>Executioner. You can even do better with Dizzying Swing>Poison>Medium Weave>Executioner>Bash around .750 secs or better. It is all about the timing of pre-loads of mediums, releases of left mouse key, pressing the Executioner and cancel with block/bash/roll

Again, here is an example with time stamp;

Dizzying Swing>Medium Weave>Executioner .340 secs
https://youtu.be/lXXzUyouc74

Dizzying Swing>Poison>Medium Weave>Executioner>Bash .8 secs
https://youtu.be/4N0rHxq3T44

Every one of those videos is happening client side not server side. Do not ever use the combat log addon as a form of time tracking as that is widely innacurate and is only communicating with the client to display damage intervals and has nothing to do with the server. These videos demonstrate precisely what gilliam was talking about regarding how these types of desyncs are only fooling yourself and have no bearing o the target and how they are receiving the information from the server and on their client.

Your testing is entirely flawed.

But problem here is that there is third side - client of your opponent and the higher the lag, the higher de-sync between your client and your opponent's client. You will receive information about reduced HP on enemy bar only when server will be able to report that ability was not dodged. Thus, for all this combos to work, we must predict when opponent will be vulnerable for ultimate burst and queue that burst before you have info from server.
So "skilled" players queue med attack and onslaught before they received info about dizzy success. So while on "server side" dizzy-medium-onslaught-execute may take "3 GCD" on receiving side you will be hit by dizzy and stunned by medium off-balance in the same time and server will know about onslaught earlier then you and so even if you break free fast and dodge that doesn't matter, due to de-sync server already registered onslaught and is ready to register execute. Hell, you can queue 2 stuns simultaneously with med heavy into leap or streak into meteor . Then server will go mad forcing knockdown animation despite target was already stunned by off-balance heavy attack... and your opponent won't be able to break free at all until stuns expire, because he got 2 stuns at once.
It all varies heavily dependent on server lag, your personal lag (ping) to server and your opponent's ping to server - but it is very easily to see difference if your opponent waits for server response or no. And this is how all this deaths in 1-2 GCD happen... they may take 3 GCD for the server but both for you and your opponent due to ability queuing it may be 1 GCD less.
So answer to OP question is - perform this combo like explained in this thread AND don't wait for server response. You press onslaught before you receive feedback on dizzy-med heavy success and then cancel it (or it might cancel himself if opponent is out of range) if dizzy was dodged.. of course it is risky and both can be dodged dependent on lag... but without this queuing this medium heavy attack combo is much weaker... and I guess that's the real reason behind off-balance nerf. This med-heavy queued combo is probably most effective stun in the game if opponent doesn't use block preemptively.

Well, this all above is barely readable

but I'm sure you know what I'm describing. Short version:
1. use your rotation while waiting for suitable moment dependent on what % HP opponent is, if he just roll-dodged or not etc...
2. in the right moment use dizzy-medium-onslaught/leap/DBoS-execute-block-bash-execute without waiting for server response
3. ???
4. Either your opponent is killed or your burst is dodged or you see that your opponent is tanky enough and now block heals from 10% HP like full pen 6k WD executioners are nothing...
5. ZOS nerfs off-balance and leap and drain and block and... just to minimize this de-sync kills.

MentalxHammer · March 2020

Lord-Otto wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

The heavy attack isn't fully charged. You hold it for just a split second. It deals less damage and restores less resources, but the game considers it a heavy attack and will therefore stun you from Dizzying's off-balance. The community calls this a "medium attack". And it is therefore totally legit to be hit by those three things. It's actually a very common combo these days. But it will get nerfed next patch.

It's not just the community, it will appear in your in game death recap as a medium attack.

You sure?
(0.0)

Positive, I've seen it myself.

technohic · March 2020

jadarock wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

This is why there's so much misinformation.

I'm surprised how few people know how to correctly combo in this game.

It's legit, it's understanding how the game functions.

Ah yes, because charging a heavy during a dswing animation is something that should come naturally to players.

It's not hard to initiate dswing and the moment the animation starts charge a heavy attack right behind it....

Some of you need to solo in cyrodiil for a few months instead of joining a group......

I'm not sure running solo will teach you that. You just kind of realize you're missing something when you fight a decent opponent. I just figured this particular 1 out and it's a game changer. More happened from watching good players and dizzy doing off balance to where a medium to heavy attack is needed for the stun.

idk · March 2020

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Ramber wrote: »

msalvia wrote: »

Sincere, salt-free question here, as I'm trying to get my pvp game up. Recently was playing in IC and kept fighting another player (same guy each time). We fought 4 different times, and each time, the guy managed to land (per my death summary) a d-swing, 2h heavy attack, and executioner is under 1 second. At first I thought it was a desync, but the exact same combo killed me 4 different times, all in >1 second, no exaggeration. Seemingly, that all hit me in the same instant.

If this is a real animation cancel strategy, I want to learn it! Does anyone have any experience with this? I'm ok at ACing, but haven't ever found a way to make 2 abilities with cast times hit at the same time, let alone adding an executioner to the mix.

Thanks in advance. Help me L2P and "get gud," all you ESO geniuses.

macros

Bahaha yeah no I can do it flawlessly on a controller, get your conspiracy theories out of here.

Skilled and practiced players execute skills better than a macro can any day. It is really funny seeing a player try to use macros. LMAO, they get stuck using block when the macro cannot do the next action. So yes, most players would out themselves if they tried to use macros against a decently skilled player.

kaithuzar · March 2020

I think this stems from how the developers have chosen to approach client side lag that is network related for people with terrible Internet service/potatoes for PC’s.

They want the game to feel fluid for everybody which can never happen but they still adopted this methodology and it only makes things worse for the majority.

ZOS just needs to take the stance:
“ if your machine or Internet service cannot keep up with the game you cannot expect to do well inside the game.”

This is normally handled by the games minimum and recommended settings however this is typically not included Internet service provider speeds but should in today’s MMO world.

And example I see often in Cyrodiil, is, there is a player On the other side of the world with terrible Internet and on their screen they look perfectly fine but on my screen their character is glitching them out from one place to another as if they were going invisible for a brief moment and completely evading attacks or performing attacks that I can’t see due to their character not being in the place where I last saw them.

The elder scrolls online -
The only game were having worse Internet and PC specs get your better in game results.

Thogard · March 2020

They’re very much still possible, but very rare. It’s not something that happens due to macros - it’s a function of a knockback into terrain.

It is an HP desync and skill desync for everyone, including the target

https://youtu.be/4RvQRG15YkI