Is this legit animation cancelling?

msalvia

Sincere, salt-free question here, as I'm trying to get my pvp game up. Recently was playing in IC and kept fighting another player (same guy each time). We fought 4 different times, and each time, the guy managed to land (per my death summary) a d-swing, 2h heavy attack, and executioner is under 1 second. At first I thought it was a desync, but the exact same combo killed me 4 different times, all in >1 second, no exaggeration. Seemingly, that all hit me in the same instant.

If this is a real animation cancel strategy, I want to learn it! Does anyone have any experience with this? I'm ok at ACing, but haven't ever found a way to make 2 abilities with cast times hit at the same time, let alone adding an executioner to the mix.

Thanks in advance. Help me L2P and "get gud," all you ESO geniuses.

Royaji

What you are describing has nothing to do with animation cancelling.

ThePedge

Got a screenshot of combat log showing when you took all the damage in one second?

Lord-Otto

The heavy attack isn't fully charged. You hold it for just a split second. It deals less damage and restores less resources, but the game considers it a heavy attack and will therefore stun you from Dizzying's off-balance. The community calls this a "medium attack". And it is therefore totally legit to be hit by those three things. It's actually a very common combo these days. But it will get nerfed next patch.

msalvia

Royaji wrote: »

What you are describing has nothing to do with animation cancelling.

Thank you for the helpful comment /s

msalvia

Lord-Otto wrote: »

The heavy attack isn't fully charged. You hold it for just a split second. It deals less damage and restores less resources, but the game considers it a heavy attack and will therefore stun you from Dizzying's off-balance. The community calls this a "medium attack". And it is therefore totally legit to be hit by those three things. It's actually a very common combo these days. But it will get nerfed next patch.

Thanks! What order are they cast? D-swing-->medium attack-->executioner? And how is it being nerfed? I'm not gonna learn it if I can only use it a week.

Lord-Otto

msalvia wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

The heavy attack isn't fully charged. You hold it for just a split second. It deals less damage and restores less resources, but the game considers it a heavy attack and will therefore stun you from Dizzying's off-balance. The community calls this a "medium attack". And it is therefore totally legit to be hit by those three things. It's actually a very common combo these days. But it will get nerfed next patch.

Thanks! What order are they cast? D-swing-->medium attack-->executioner? And how is it being nerfed? I'm not gonna learn it if I can only use it a week.

Yup, that's the order.
Off-balance will be changed to have a longer immunity, basically. You won't be able to get the stun from Dizzying every seven seconds, meaning you'll need another CC skill.

Iskiab

msalvia wrote: »

Sincere, salt-free question here, as I'm trying to get my pvp game up. Recently was playing in IC and kept fighting another player (same guy each time). We fought 4 different times, and each time, the guy managed to land (per my death summary) a d-swing, 2h heavy attack, and executioner is under 1 second. At first I thought it was a desync, but the exact same combo killed me 4 different times, all in >1 second, no exaggeration. Seemingly, that all hit me in the same instant.

If this is a real animation cancel strategy, I want to learn it! Does anyone have any experience with this? I'm ok at ACing, but haven't ever found a way to make 2 abilities with cast times hit at the same time, let alone adding an executioner to the mix.

Thanks in advance. Help me L2P and "get gud," all you ESO geniuses.

That’s a normal use of dizzy swing.

Dizzy is a cast time so does it’s damage at the end of the GCD, medium attacks stun with off balance (light attack held for a fraction longer), and executioner does it’s damage immediately.

All the damage should be coming in within a second and is doing the combo properly. Usually instead of straight to executioner it’ll be an onslaught instead after the dizzy, try and get your defense up.

msalvia

Yup, that's the order.
Off-balance will be changed to have a longer immunity, basically. You won't be able to get the stun from Dizzying every seven seconds, meaning you'll need another CC skill.[/quote]

Awesome, thank you for the helpful comment, a true rarity on these here forums

msalvia

Iskiab wrote: »

msalvia wrote: »

Sincere, salt-free question here, as I'm trying to get my pvp game up. Recently was playing in IC and kept fighting another player (same guy each time). We fought 4 different times, and each time, the guy managed to land (per my death summary) a d-swing, 2h heavy attack, and executioner is under 1 second. At first I thought it was a desync, but the exact same combo killed me 4 different times, all in >1 second, no exaggeration. Seemingly, that all hit me in the same instant.

If this is a real animation cancel strategy, I want to learn it! Does anyone have any experience with this? I'm ok at ACing, but haven't ever found a way to make 2 abilities with cast times hit at the same time, let alone adding an executioner to the mix.

Thanks in advance. Help me L2P and "get gud," all you ESO geniuses.

That’s a normal use of dizzy swing.

Dizzy is a cast time so does it’s damage at the end of the GCD, medium attacks stun with off balance (light attack held for a fraction longer), and executioner does it’s damage immediately.

All the damage should be coming in within a second and is doing the combo properly.

Thank you. It was the medium attack thing I didn't understand, as it was registered on my death summary as a heavy (apparently one more way that the death recap isn't that helpful).

idk

Royaji wrote: »

What you are describing has nothing to do with animation cancelling.

This. OP is experiencing server lag. There is a one-second GCD for every skill and AC cannot override that. However, with server lag it can appear the skills all came at once. Also, pretty sure the death recap is client-side so it only reports based on when it sees the information, not when it actually happened server-side.

Rikumaru

You can queue executioner straight after dizzying swing so it lands all at the same time. As for the heavy attack, not too sure but it would make sense if it's a medium attack. You can try it yourself, just cast dizzying, then medium + executioner and then block. It will all land at the same time.

Thogard

msalvia wrote: »

Sincere, salt-free question here, as I'm trying to get my pvp game up. Recently was playing in IC and kept fighting another player (same guy each time). We fought 4 different times, and each time, the guy managed to land (per my death summary) a d-swing, 2h heavy attack, and executioner is under 1 second. At first I thought it was a desync, but the exact same combo killed me 4 different times, all in >1 second, no exaggeration. Seemingly, that all hit me in the same instant.

If this is a real animation cancel strategy, I want to learn it! Does anyone have any experience with this? I'm ok at ACing, but haven't ever found a way to make 2 abilities with cast times hit at the same time, let alone adding an executioner to the mix.

Thanks in advance. Help me L2P and "get gud," all you ESO geniuses.

Yes it’s 100% legit. It was probably a medium attack though, not a heavy attack

Gilvoth

msalvia wrote: »

Sincere, salt-free question here, as I'm trying to get my pvp game up. Recently was playing in IC and kept fighting another player (same guy each time). We fought 4 different times, and each time, the guy managed to land (per my death summary) a d-swing, 2h heavy attack, and executioner is under 1 second. At first I thought it was a desync, but the exact same combo killed me 4 different times, all in >1 second, no exaggeration. Seemingly, that all hit me in the same instant.

If this is a real animation cancel strategy, I want to learn it! Does anyone have any experience with this? I'm ok at ACing, but haven't ever found a way to make 2 abilities with cast times hit at the same time, let alone adding an executioner to the mix.

Thanks in advance. Help me L2P and "get gud," all you ESO geniuses.

people claim this only happens with snipe.
i find it interesting the more we look into this event the more we see that snipe is not the only skill this happens with.

Rianai

Nobody claims "this" only happens with snipe.

"This" = a combo involving a cast time skill + light/medium attack + instant skill. No bugs, lag or desyncs (neccessarily) involved.

Gilvoth

Rianai wrote: »

Nobody claims "this" only happens with snipe.

"This" = a combo involving a cast time skill + light/medium attack + instant skill. No bugs, lag or desyncs (neccessarily) involved.

oh my that's not true at all, lets take a look at a thread i link below and you will see the exact same comparison that singles out and specifically claim this only happens with snipe ...
here at this link:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/512821/snipe-desync-post-your-clips-feedback-is-the-key-to-a-fix/p1

Rianai

No.

brandonv516

Gilvoth wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Nobody claims "this" only happens with snipe.

"This" = a combo involving a cast time skill + light/medium attack + instant skill. No bugs, lag or desyncs (neccessarily) involved.

oh my that's not true at all, lets take a look at a thread i link below and you will see the exact same comparison that singles out and specifically claim this only happens with snipe ...
here at this link:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/512821/snipe-desync-post-your-clips-feedback-is-the-key-to-a-fix/p1

That's a desync exploit with Snipe. This is a combo; the two are very much different. No need to bring that thread here.

Iskiab

brandonv516 wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Nobody claims "this" only happens with snipe.

"This" = a combo involving a cast time skill + light/medium attack + instant skill. No bugs, lag or desyncs (neccessarily) involved.

oh my that's not true at all, lets take a look at a thread i link below and you will see the exact same comparison that singles out and specifically claim this only happens with snipe ...
here at this link:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/512821/snipe-desync-post-your-clips-feedback-is-the-key-to-a-fix/p1

That's a desync exploit with Snipe. This is a combo; the two are very much different. No need to bring that thread here.

Yea, I think they aren’t reading the thread and just answering the OP. At least I hope so, it’s be pretty scary if a lot of stam or magsorcs didn’t know how to use a cast time in a combo. This info is in all the guides isn’t it?

Gilvoth

oh they are both exactly the same and it needs to be pointed out as i did so in my comment.
if you disagree then thats fine and perfectly allowed but my comment stands,
you will see the exact same comparison that singles out and specifically claim this only happens with snipe
here at this link:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/512821/snipe-desync-post-your-clips-feedback-is-the-key-to-a-fix/p1


thank you.

Sorbin

As others have said, it's probably just D Swing - medium attack (started during the tail end of Dizzy channel) - Executioner, possibly bar-swap cancelled at the end, which is going to put all the damage out there incredibly fast.

exeeter702

msalvia wrote: »

Sincere, salt-free question here, as I'm trying to get my pvp game up. Recently was playing in IC and kept fighting another player (same guy each time). We fought 4 different times, and each time, the guy managed to land (per my death summary) a d-swing, 2h heavy attack, and executioner is under 1 second. At first I thought it was a desync, but the exact same combo killed me 4 different times, all in >1 second, no exaggeration. Seemingly, that all hit me in the same instant.

If this is a real animation cancel strategy, I want to learn it! Does anyone have any experience with this? I'm ok at ACing, but haven't ever found a way to make 2 abilities with cast times hit at the same time, let alone adding an executioner to the mix.

Thanks in advance. Help me L2P and "get gud," all you ESO geniuses.

There are some in this thread derailing your question.

Abiities are governed by a 1 second GCD. In the case of hard casted abilities such as uppercut, the GCD initialized at the press of the button and the abilities reaches its resolve point (where damage is dealt) at the end of the cast which is when the GCD is refreshed. Thata why uppercut into an instant cast skill will happen within a one second window. The medium attack that is used to trigger the off balance stun is essentially a weave. Basic (white attacks) do not obey the GCD and are designed to be used before every skill use.

So to answer your question. Well, the question itslef is a bit redundant since depending on who you ask, they would believe it is animation canceling because the medium attack animation is clipped by executioner, however the truth is that this is simply ESOs combat system working as intended and the player that used that combo on you is simply executing it how the combat system intends. Its important to note that eso has a .5 second buffer window or "ability queue" depending on what other mmos you've played. This buffer window applies to abilities and basic attacks.

So what's happening here is precisely this -

dizzying swing is pressed, GCD immediately begins, dizzying swings cast time occurs during the GCD, basic attack is pressed and held (medium attack buffer), Dizzying swings cast time completes at the same time the GCD does, dizzying swing makes contact with target and deals damage, basic attack button is released, executioner is pressed resulting in cutting off the recovery animation of the medium attack. Entire combo is delivered in roughly a 1.5 second window.

There is no skill here to learn beyond simply understanding the GCD, cast time abilities and basic attacks.

Comments involving snipe desync issues or lag related "macro slicing" anomalies should be aptly disregarded.

I hope this clears up any confusions.

exeeter702

Sorbin wrote: »

As others have said, it's probably just D Swing - medium attack (started during the tail end of Dizzy channel) - Executioner, possibly bar-swap cancelled at the end, which is going to put all the damage out there incredibly fast.

Bar swap has no effect on the cadence of damage dealt. When executioner is pressed, the ability resolves instantly, canceling its recovery animation with a bar swap does nothing for the damage timing since it has already been sent to the server.

Gilvoth

exeeter702 wrote: »

msalvia wrote: »

Sincere, salt-free question here, as I'm trying to get my pvp game up. Recently was playing in IC and kept fighting another player (same guy each time). We fought 4 different times, and each time, the guy managed to land (per my death summary) a d-swing, 2h heavy attack, and executioner is under 1 second. At first I thought it was a desync, but the exact same combo killed me 4 different times, all in >1 second, no exaggeration. Seemingly, that all hit me in the same instant.

If this is a real animation cancel strategy, I want to learn it! Does anyone have any experience with this? I'm ok at ACing, but haven't ever found a way to make 2 abilities with cast times hit at the same time, let alone adding an executioner to the mix.

Thanks in advance. Help me L2P and "get gud," all you ESO geniuses.

There are some in this thread derailing your question.

Abiities are governed by a 1 second GCD. In the case of hard casted abilities such as uppercut, the GCD initialized at the press of the button and the abilities reaches its resolve point (where damage is dealt) at the end of the cast which is when the GCD is refreshed. Thata why uppercut into an instant cast skill will happen within a one second window. The medium attack that is used to trigger the off balance stun is essentially a weave. Basic (white attacks) do not obey the GCD and are designed to be used before every skill use.

So to answer your question. Well, the question itslef is a bit redundant since depending on who you ask, they would believe it is animation canceling because the medium attack animation is clipped by executioner, however the truth is that this is simply ESOs combat system working as intended and the player that used that combo on you is simply executing it how the combat system intends. Its important to note that eso has a .5 second buffer window or "ability queue" depending on what other mmos you've played. This buffer window applies to abilities and basic attacks.

So what's happening here is precisely this -

dizzying swing is pressed, GCD immediately begins, dizzying swings cast time occurs during the GCD, basic attack is pressed and held (medium attack buffer), Dizzying swings cast time completes at the same time the GCD does, dizzying swing makes contact with target and deals damage, basic attack button is released, executioner is pressed resulting in cutting off the recovery animation of the medium attack. Entire combo is delivered in roughly a 1.5 second window.

There is no skill here to learn beyond simply understanding the GCD, cast time abilities and basic attacks.

Comments involving snipe desync issues or lag related "macro slicing" anomalies should be aptly disregarded.

I hope this clears up any confusions.

in the case of snipe and many other effects this is absolutely the very same case that we are seeing with lagg and animation canceling and many other effects like glitching the skills as well as High Ping.
they are all very much the same effect that needs to be exposed and spoken about in order for us all to see the truth and the developers to see this and what is taking place Especially in PvP in this specific topic and it is very clearly the effect the thread is talking about.
just because someone disagrees with your beliefs or has a different opinion than you does not mean it is a thread derailment nor that they are wrong.
all it means is that you have a different opinion than others.

Gilvoth

exeeter702 wrote: »

Sorbin wrote: »

As others have said, it's probably just D Swing - medium attack (started during the tail end of Dizzy channel) - Executioner, possibly bar-swap cancelled at the end, which is going to put all the damage out there incredibly fast.

Bar swap has no effect on the cadence of damage dealt. When executioner is pressed, the ability resolves instantly, canceling its recovery animation with a bar swap does nothing for the damage timing since it has already been sent to the server.

again this is incorrect information, because it is well known that damage and animation does not occur untill we "release" the key, not when it is pressed.
only upon key release do these effects take place.
please be aware of this as it does effect timing and places Greater insight as to what effect is taking place in association with High Ping and lagg that might be taking place along with any animation canceling because they very much do effect the outcome of what is happening.
and again, just as you pointed out earlier that this is designed this way.

exeeter702

Gilvoth wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Sorbin wrote: »

As others have said, it's probably just D Swing - medium attack (started during the tail end of Dizzy channel) - Executioner, possibly bar-swap cancelled at the end, which is going to put all the damage out there incredibly fast.

Bar swap has no effect on the cadence of damage dealt. When executioner is pressed, the ability resolves instantly, canceling its recovery animation with a bar swap does nothing for the damage timing since it has already been sent to the server.

again this is incorrect information, because it is well known that damage and animation does not occur untill we "release" the key, not when it is pressed.
only upon key release do these effects take place.
please be aware of this as it does place Greater insight as to what effect is taking place in association with timing and should also include the High Ping and lagg that might be taking place along with any animation canceling because they very much do effect the outcome of what is happening.
and again, just as you pointed out earlier that this is designed this way.

You really need to stop. Posts like this are exactly why people like the OP end up being one of the many clowns on here demanding "animation canceling" be fixed because they constantly get blown up by "5 skills in 1 second!!!".

The OPs question has absolutely nothing to do with Snipe desyncing and damage being dump in a given window of time due to latency and lag.

And my information is absolutely not incorrect. Instant cast abilities are instant, full stop. This isnt even a discussion. This is a fundamental principle in how these types of online mmo rpgs are designed between client and server. There is no negative edge with ability use. Once an instant cast ability is activated and the GCD triggers, there is no input on the users end that will change the outcome of the skill, regardless of what you see on the client side. That is not an opinion. If the case of high ping and latency, what you are seeing on your end is almost never the case with what the recipient is seeing on theirs.

Canceling the superfluous recovery animations that play out during the GCD accomplishes nothing unless you are simply bar swapping to make sure you are on the correct bar to use the ability you need to by the time the GCD is up which is entirely by design and does nothing for expediting damage being dealt since you are still beholden to the GCD.

MurderMostFoul

Royaji wrote: »

What you are describing has nothing to do with animation cancelling.

A portion of the medium attack (heavy attack) animation is cancelled.

Iskiab

The game is definitely a complex one. I didn’t know you could preload the medium/heavy attack during dizzy. I’ll have to practice that.

Ramber

msalvia wrote: »

Sincere, salt-free question here, as I'm trying to get my pvp game up. Recently was playing in IC and kept fighting another player (same guy each time). We fought 4 different times, and each time, the guy managed to land (per my death summary) a d-swing, 2h heavy attack, and executioner is under 1 second. At first I thought it was a desync, but the exact same combo killed me 4 different times, all in >1 second, no exaggeration. Seemingly, that all hit me in the same instant.

If this is a real animation cancel strategy, I want to learn it! Does anyone have any experience with this? I'm ok at ACing, but haven't ever found a way to make 2 abilities with cast times hit at the same time, let alone adding an executioner to the mix.

Thanks in advance. Help me L2P and "get gud," all you ESO geniuses.

macros

Sanctum74

Ramber wrote: »

msalvia wrote: »

Sincere, salt-free question here, as I'm trying to get my pvp game up. Recently was playing in IC and kept fighting another player (same guy each time). We fought 4 different times, and each time, the guy managed to land (per my death summary) a d-swing, 2h heavy attack, and executioner is under 1 second. At first I thought it was a desync, but the exact same combo killed me 4 different times, all in >1 second, no exaggeration. Seemingly, that all hit me in the same instant.

If this is a real animation cancel strategy, I want to learn it! Does anyone have any experience with this? I'm ok at ACing, but haven't ever found a way to make 2 abilities with cast times hit at the same time, let alone adding an executioner to the mix.

Thanks in advance. Help me L2P and "get gud," all you ESO geniuses.

macros

Lol no macros can’t bypass the global cool down and don’t work in laggy games like eso, next

Iskiab

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Ramber wrote: »

msalvia wrote: »

Sincere, salt-free question here, as I'm trying to get my pvp game up. Recently was playing in IC and kept fighting another player (same guy each time). We fought 4 different times, and each time, the guy managed to land (per my death summary) a d-swing, 2h heavy attack, and executioner is under 1 second. At first I thought it was a desync, but the exact same combo killed me 4 different times, all in >1 second, no exaggeration. Seemingly, that all hit me in the same instant.

If this is a real animation cancel strategy, I want to learn it! Does anyone have any experience with this? I'm ok at ACing, but haven't ever found a way to make 2 abilities with cast times hit at the same time, let alone adding an executioner to the mix.

Thanks in advance. Help me L2P and "get gud," all you ESO geniuses.

macros

Lol no macros can’t bypass the global cool down and don’t work in laggy games like eso, next

I think I’ve seen people try. Block the dizzy and if the person hits executioner when you’re above 50% health it’s probably a macro.