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Why do Devs ruin such great games?
Lord_Onyx
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Well, looks like im done with this game. Was really looking forward to actually invest time in this game.
Now ruined by goldsellers and dupe glitch. Both ruined the game and my experience and really havent been much impressed with the game even.
Despite me not really having too many issues, im really dissapointed that goldsellers and the dupe glitch ruined this game because I really had faith in Zenimax to keep these 2 MAIN THINGS THAT RUIN A GAME AWAY!!!!
But you failed HARD Zenimax.
Ill give you credit on a decent launch but completely failed on the big picture and the forums and proof to it.
*Constant glitches from falling under map.
*Lag
*Buggy combat
*Annoying Gold Sellers
*Dupe glitch
*Ruined economy
*Laggy Cyrodil
*Bots
*Hackers that can instant harvest nodes (want the link to the hack even? not hard to find ffs)
*Mail grieving
Thats all I can think of right now and none of these issues have been addressed. At this point im just going to wait and see what happens because im tired of buying games with false hopes and supporting a game company that doesnt give a *** about its legit player base. These are serious issues that make or break a game from keeping their subscription.
DUPES +1
GOLD SELLERS +1
ZENIMAX 0
Also, enjoy this GameReview that EVERYONE can now read and see how bad you failed.
http://www.gamrreview.com/news/91351/elder-scrolls-online-duplication-bug-ruining-mmos-economy
EDIT** Title is a little hash to Devs and should be all blame on Zenimax really the dupe glitch was my main focus on how/why it even happened when it was reported since beta/prior even.
Trolls can F*** off I really love the game just the dupe glitch really set me off at this point.
Edited by Lord_Onyx on April 18, 2014 3:48PM Now ruined by goldsellers and dupe glitch. Both ruined the game and my experience and really havent been much impressed with the game even.
Despite me not really having too many issues, im really dissapointed that goldsellers and the dupe glitch ruined this game because I really had faith in Zenimax to keep these 2 MAIN THINGS THAT RUIN A GAME AWAY!!!!
But you failed HARD Zenimax.
Ill give you credit on a decent launch but completely failed on the big picture and the forums and proof to it.
*Constant glitches from falling under map.
*Lag
*Buggy combat
*Annoying Gold Sellers
*Dupe glitch
*Ruined economy
*Laggy Cyrodil
*Bots
*Hackers that can instant harvest nodes (want the link to the hack even? not hard to find ffs)
*Mail grieving
Thats all I can think of right now and none of these issues have been addressed. At this point im just going to wait and see what happens because im tired of buying games with false hopes and supporting a game company that doesnt give a *** about its legit player base. These are serious issues that make or break a game from keeping their subscription.
DUPES +1
GOLD SELLERS +1
ZENIMAX 0
Also, enjoy this GameReview that EVERYONE can now read and see how bad you failed.
http://www.gamrreview.com/news/91351/elder-scrolls-online-duplication-bug-ruining-mmos-economy
EDIT** Title is a little hash to Devs and should be all blame on Zenimax really the dupe glitch was my main focus on how/why it even happened when it was reported since beta/prior even.
Trolls can F*** off I really love the game just the dupe glitch really set me off at this point.
11
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Chomag✭✭✭In before apologists claiming the other MMOs had equally bad launches (they didn't, actually) or that you must have more patience with the launch.
Wildstar beta weekend coming up in a bit.Edited by Chomag on April 18, 2014 1:35PM9 -
Seroczynski✭✭✭It's not just the developers who are guilty mate.Edited by Seroczynski on April 18, 2014 1:34PM“To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.” ― Homer J. Simpson5 -
AfendariaSoul ShrivenThe game hasn't even been out that long and you're done? shame.Edited by Afendaria on April 18, 2014 1:35PM5
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Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Those Devs that ruin the games are also the ones who made it and are working every day to fix the issues.
Do you somehow see ZOS staff going into work every day putting their feet up and doing nothing?
There is an issue with gold selling and botting and now the exploit has come to public light, you can also find posts on these forums from ZOS stating they are looking into and working on every single one of these issues.
If you know some magic bullet fix that outright stops botting and gold selling in an MMO you should probably patience that right now and start selling it because you're going to be rich.
We don't fully know the level of abuse the exploit had or how ZOS plan to proceed with dealing with it, it's not even been a day since it became publicly aware and people started screaming about it.
This isn't the first game to suffer item duplication and it wont be the last, the fact they know it happened and have disabled its cause while they work on a fix is already a start, the damage to the economy will also be minimized by the fact we don't have a central auction house.
If you wish to leave over these issues that's your own choice and right, but you might want to wait and see what they manage to do over the next couple weeks and months now they have bug reports and feedback piling in to work from.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."6 -
LadyChaos✭✭✭✭In before apologists claiming the other MMOs had equally bad launches (they didn't, actually) or that you must have more patience with the launch.
Wildstar beta weekend to come up shortly.
There have been just as bad if not worse launches just this last year let alone historically, but that shouldn't matter.
I'm seeing the same people say no patches ever, and fix these problems back to back... Stuff gets fixed every time, it's not at a pace for any particular preference.VR2 Ataxia - [NA] Veteran Dominion Sorcerer [Auriel's Bow]
PvP, PvE, Crafting, and General Shenanigans
Sorcery and Mayhem online since 1999
Current PvP Class/Supernatural Census1 -
Lausanna✭Gold sellers are easily avoided with an add on (though one wonders why such a thing is not just built into the game).
Not sure what this Dupe glitch is...first I've heard of it.1 -
lol, Warhammer, Wow, Aion, and pretty much every other MMO I've ever played had massive numbers of people banned for duping, speed hacking, botting etc.In before apologists claiming the other MMOs had equally bad launches (they didn't, actually) or that you must have more patience with the launch.
Wildstar beta weekend coming up in a bit.
First time a companies actually got the ban train rolling within a fortnight though. Usually they wait for months till the botters and dupers have completely destroyed the economy.5 -
Lord_Onyx✭✭Ive been playing this game since ealry beta/alpha and dont get me wrong I LOVE the game but the fact the 2 main things I did NOT want to see ever happen happened. Now I know, I know. Maybe I was being to naive about it. But I just really had high hopes that they would really have a great system in place to keep these 2 MAIN THINGS out. But all in all they didnt and they RUIN MY EXPERIENCE. Maybe not yours but hey, if you enjoy playing with 12yr old script kiddies that just wanna ruin this game then thats your choice. Spend the $15 a month all you want. At this point im done and thats unfortunate.1
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Chomag✭✭✭In before apologists claiming the other MMOs had equally bad launches (they didn't, actually) or that you must have more patience with the launch.
Wildstar beta weekend to come up shortly.
There have been just as bad if not worse launches just this last year let alone historically, but that shouldn't matter.
I'm seeing the same people say no patches ever, and fix these problems back to back... Stuff gets fixed every time, it's not at a pace for any particular preference.
No, there haven't been. At least not for AAA games worthy of a monthly sub. But yeah, plenty of wrecked launches for crappy MMOs that are f2p today.
A launch will have problems, yes, but the amount of problems that ESO has and little to no communication from the developers, is something I am witnessing for the 1st time, and I have played almost all MMOs released in the last 10 years.
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crowfl56✭✭✭✭✭To me the game was months away from launch, money is always the driver, surprise surprise. Fix is pretty easy, perma ban the exploiters, gold sellers and buyers. Roll back any and all chars and remove their gold and ill gotten items, that don't fit the ban model. Plus reward the player that just played the game, without taking advantage of all the cheats. Which would be 90% of you.2
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Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Lausanna there was a exploit possible with the guild banks to duplicate items and maybe gold. I don't have the complete facts as I first heard about it last night and then did what research I could.
Seems there were people duplicating rare (purple and gold) crafting materials in the hundreds then selling them off. There is talk of people with tens of millions of gold as well however I don't know how much is wild rumour and speculation and what's true.
Guild banks are disabled and they seem to be looking into the events, hopefully large numbers of items can be removed from the game and some of those who exploited will be banned.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."1 -
otomodachi✭✭✭To me the game was months away from launch, money is always the driver, surprise surprise. Fix is pretty easy, perma ban the exploiters, gold sellers and buyers. Roll back any and all chars and remove their gold and ill gotten items, that don't fit the ban model. Plus reward the player that just played the game, without taking advantage of all the cheats. Which would be 90% of you.
Agreement, will say it until I am blue in the face- if ZO took this heap back to beta right now and said they were re-launching in a month I would GLADLY buy the game again, set up my sub RIGHT NOW and participate in that beta. It'd show some actual class, and I think 3 months is about what it'll take. Yes, I am pulling that number basically out of my ass, deal with it.What do you gain by criticizing a CSR complaint?5 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Explain how the gold sellers have ruined it for you if you didn't partake in the buying /selling ? And explain how exactly did the duping affect you in any way if you didn't use it? Making statements of fact without arguments really serves no point.
I still have my gear, my progress,my characters, my friends ,my ideas for new crap I want to try and still quite a lot of content to do . You only got one thing right. This is a pretty great game and the devs didn't ruin it they made it.-ESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)6 -
ebunts14_ESO✭✭✭Well go back to WoW or what ever other game you like and I can tell you it willhave its own set of problems, bugs, cheats, duping, ect. This has happened in every mmo ever created. And I do mean every mmo.
Well guess we will see you posting again tomorrow, next week and next month.1 -
Lord_Onyx✭✭https://youtube.com/watch?v=JoZQW0_OEmw
Its been fixed since but the video was put up yesterday.....
so yeah I wonder how long its been around for to be abused lol yeah thats right, since freaking beta.1 -
otomodachi✭✭✭Explain how the gold sellers have ruined it for you if you didn't partake in the buying /selling ? And explain how exactly did the duping affect you in any way if you didn't use it? Making statements of fact without arguments really serves no point.
I still have my gear, my progress,my characters, my friends ,my ideas for new crap I want to try and still quite a lot of content to do . You only got one thing right. This is a pretty great game and the devs didn't ruin it they made it.-
Go read the wikipedia entry on inflation, and then the one on economics. Should clear it up.
What do you gain by criticizing a CSR complaint?1 -
South_of_Heaven✭✭✭Worst thing is the duping. I can live with EVERYTHING else. But this is irreversible because they probably will try to bury it - if they can.
Anyway it's mostly the "suits" - executives, that destroy games. With their uninformed timetables and involvement.4 -
Tetrasoli✭✭✭I think you are being a bit melodramatic and I don't agree with a lot of what you said RE ZOS, BUT (and this is all conjecture)....
One of the main reasons for recent MMOs ending up somewhat lackluster is "design by committee". Back in the day, you usually had one (or two) visionaries making all of the major decisions for a game which were realized by a fairly small team. Back then, you didn't need so many engineers and designers working on projects because of the tech. Now teams have many more people and have begun to lean more towards a bureaucratic method of development. With design by committee, nothing visionary or industry changing will make it past the multiple levels of red tape (including publishers) because it isn't the safe bet. I'm not sure if this is also true for Asian MMO developers, since they still tend to hire one person who has almost total control and is elevated to celebrity status in many cases.3 -
zeuseason✭✭✭I remember this game called DIABLO 3. WoW did that game get destroyed by dupers, hacks & bot farmers. And the devs did nothing about it. It was normal for players to 'request' 250 million gold for a single item and yet, for the normal player, you'd get only about 1k *average* drop from typical end game mobs.
It's not necessarily ZOS's fault for it happening, but they definitely need to snip it in the butt to maintain the integrity of the game long term. Just remember too, without gold buyers, there'd be no gold sellers. So stop buying gold already.Edited by zeuseason on April 18, 2014 3:06PM0 -
Lord_Onyx✭✭Explain how the gold sellers have ruined it for you if you didn't partake in the buying /selling ? And explain how exactly did the duping affect you in any way if you didn't use it? Making statements of fact without arguments really serves no point.
I still have my gear, my progress,my characters, my friends ,my ideas for new crap I want to try and still quite a lot of content to do . You only got one thing right. This is a pretty great game and the devs didn't ruin it they made it.-
Why in the hell would anyone need an argument for a statement of FACT??? LOL Anyways just read the forums I dont need to explain the obvious to you sorry.
The ECONOMY is ruined, sure you play with your friends and have a good time. Good for you!!
I didnt say the game was UNPLAYABLE its just ruined.
Grats to you if you still play the game I never said it was a *** game. Im just really dissapointed in Zenimax for things that could of EASILY been avoided.0 -
Chomag✭✭✭I remember this game called DIABLO. WoW did that game get destroyed by dupers, hacks & bot farmers. And the devs did nothing about it. It was normal for players to 'request' 250 million gold for a single item and yet, for the normal player, you'd get only about 1k *average* drop from typical end game mobs.
It's not necessarily ZOS's fault for it happening, but they definitely need to snip it in the butt to maintain the integrity of the game long term. Just remember too, without gold buyers, there'd be no gold sellers. So stop buying gold already.
Diablo was a single player game that 99% of players in those days were playing solo and had little to no contact whatsoever with dupes and hackers. Many people weren't even aware what a dupe is.
Also no one gives a crap you're cheating your ass off in a single player game.
Blizzard didn't try co curb them because their impact was minimal and only the dress-up nerds cared about having the best of the best items so much that they bought them for real money. 99% of players did not care.
Please don't try the comparison.
Edited by Chomag on April 18, 2014 1:55PM0 -
Lord_Onyx✭✭I remember this game called DIABLO. WoW did that game get destroyed by dupers, hacks & bot farmers. And the devs did nothing about it. It was normal for players to 'request' 250 million gold for a single item and yet, for the normal player, you'd get only about 1k *average* drop from typical end game mobs.
It's not necessarily ZOS's fault for it happening, but they definitely need to snip it in the butt to maintain the integrity of the game long term. Just remember too, without gold buyers, there'd be no gold sellers. So stop buying gold already.
Diablo was a single player game that 99% of players in those days were playing solo and had little to no contact whatsoever with dupes and hackers. Many people weren't even aware what a dupe is.
Please don't try the comparison.
Maybe if he said "Diablo 3" I would of took it serious. Look at that game now and see where it is. Mind you its NOT monthly still ruined from dupes so much that they removed the INGAME real money AH lol
It just goes to show how bad a dupe glitch can ruin a game
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Chomag✭✭✭I remember this game called DIABLO. WoW did that game get destroyed by dupers, hacks & bot farmers. And the devs did nothing about it. It was normal for players to 'request' 250 million gold for a single item and yet, for the normal player, you'd get only about 1k *average* drop from typical end game mobs.
It's not necessarily ZOS's fault for it happening, but they definitely need to snip it in the butt to maintain the integrity of the game long term. Just remember too, without gold buyers, there'd be no gold sellers. So stop buying gold already.
Diablo was a single player game that 99% of players in those days were playing solo and had little to no contact whatsoever with dupes and hackers. Many people weren't even aware what a dupe is.
Please don't try the comparison.
Maybe if he said "Diablo 3" I would of took it serious. Look at that game now and see where it is. Mind you its NOT monthly still ruined from dupes so much that they removed the INGAME real money AH lol
It just goes to show how bad a dupe glitch can ruin a game
They removed the AH because it came against one of the very factors that made Diablo games fun: RNG drops.
With the availability of good gear in an AH as long as you had the gold for it, a lot of the fun was killed and the game became boring, not really because of dupes.
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LadyChaos✭✭✭✭In before apologists claiming the other MMOs had equally bad launches (they didn't, actually) or that you must have more patience with the launch.
Wildstar beta weekend to come up shortly.
There have been just as bad if not worse launches just this last year let alone historically, but that shouldn't matter.
I'm seeing the same people say no patches ever, and fix these problems back to back... Stuff gets fixed every time, it's not at a pace for any particular preference.
No, there haven't been. At least not for AAA games worthy of a monthly sub. But yeah, plenty of wrecked launches for crappy MMOs that are f2p today.
A launch will have problems, yes, but the amount of problems that ESO has and little to no communication from the developers, is something I am witnessing for the 1st time, and I have played almost all MMOs released in the last 10 years.
EQ1 (Verant and then SOE) ran 14 years with subscription before going F2P, EQ2 some 10 years before f2p, and similar if not exact same problems (gold sellers wernt as prevalent back then as now in general), less weekly updates though. That's just 1 franchise, I personally considered AoC a horrible launch but that's just opinion.
They haven't launched sub games in well over a year except FFIX, which was a relaunch until ESO. It was said last year(summer) by couple gameing networks that the sub game was dead and the new model would be F2p. I'm happy as hell ESO is going against that.
There's stuff wrong on that list, and needs to be fixed here, but making inflammatory crowd riling statements don't get them fixed, just gets people riled up. You think devs are just saying "lets go to the strip clubs, put the servers on update?"VR2 Ataxia - [NA] Veteran Dominion Sorcerer [Auriel's Bow]
PvP, PvE, Crafting, and General Shenanigans Sorcery and Mayhem online since 1999
Current PvP Class/Supernatural Census0 -
Halicar✭To me the game was months away from launch, money is always the driver, surprise surprise. Fix is pretty easy, perma ban the exploiters, gold sellers and buyers. Roll back any and all chars and remove their gold and ill gotten items, that don't fit the ban model. Plus reward the player that just played the game, without taking advantage of all the cheats. Which would be 90% of you.
Yes the fix against a gold selling account is easy - but I don't think you realize how many they are - and more are produced every second, no matter how many of them get perma banned. For example stolen credit cards are used to purchase tons of accounts until the money runs out - and each one of those accounts can create 8+8 chars in game to drive us nuts with their spamming.
If you and I can purchase this game - then so can gold-sellers with their stolen credit cards. Even if they get banned after 20 mins they can still spam us into oblivion in those 20 mins x thousands of accounts. So no matter how many of them get banned every minute of every day - we wont notice much difference unfortunately.
And to the OP - it's ridiculous to blame the Devs for gold sellers. If they're guilty just for creating a game with in-game money, then you are just as guilty for playing the game, and thereby enabling the pesky gold sellers.1 -
otomodachi✭✭✭To me the game was months away from launch, money is always the driver, surprise surprise. Fix is pretty easy, perma ban the exploiters, gold sellers and buyers. Roll back any and all chars and remove their gold and ill gotten items, that don't fit the ban model. Plus reward the player that just played the game, without taking advantage of all the cheats. Which would be 90% of you.
Yes the fix against a gold selling account is easy - but I don't think you realize how many they are - and more are produced every second, no matter how many of them get perma banned. For example stolen credit cards are used to purchase tons of accounts until the money runs out - and each one of those accounts can create 8+8 chars in game to drive us nuts with their spamming.
If you and I can purchase this game - then so can gold-sellers with their stolen credit cards. Even if they get banned after 20 mins they can still spam us into oblivion in those 20 mins x thousands of accounts. So no matter how many of them get banned every minute of every day - we wont notice much difference unfortunately.
And to the OP - it's ridiculous to blame the Devs for gold sellers. If they're guilty just for creating a game with in-game money, then you are just as guilty for playing the game, and thereby enabling the pesky gold sellers.
My complaint is basically (all theory)-
The way the prices on gold have shifted over the past couple weeks suggest te dupe exploit was one of the bigger sources of gold to sell. The bot farmer packs at pub bossess were to get stuff to start the dupe cycle for each account. All you need is to farm what is needed to buy 1 legendary mat, or 1 motif book and then you have moved to phase 2 dupe phase. At that point, until your account is banned, you can create basically infinite wealth. And then when that account is banned you go back to phase 1 and botfarm the pub bossess for your duping seeds.
I dunno how this stuff works! But my thinking SEEMS tight. Please poke holes, not fun. :PWhat do you gain by criticizing a CSR complaint?0 -
Bansheedragon✭✭✭otomodachi wrote: »To me the game was months away from launch, money is always the driver, surprise surprise. Fix is pretty easy, perma ban the exploiters, gold sellers and buyers. Roll back any and all chars and remove their gold and ill gotten items, that don't fit the ban model. Plus reward the player that just played the game, without taking advantage of all the cheats. Which would be 90% of you.
Agreement, will say it until I am blue in the face- if ZO took this heap back to beta right now and said they were re-launching in a month I would GLADLY buy the game again, set up my sub RIGHT NOW and participate in that beta. It'd show some actual class, and I think 3 months is about what it'll take. Yes, I am pulling that number basically out of my ass, deal with it.
This is actually something I would support as well.
Roll the game back to beta, and at least fix the most glaring and obvious bugs and other problems.
Then relaunch the game in a few months, and let all those who already paid for the game get 30 days of gametime from the start of the re-launch.
Perhaps add in a couple nice items that could be useful for low lvl characters, say up to around lvl 10, but nothing major.2 -
Lord_Onyx✭✭Reading all your comments with consideration.
I had to blame someone and unfortunately the Devs are being thrown under the bus in this. Why? Because I feel like they know what the game is going to be like and they are the ones writing to code need to be implemented into the game to make it work properly. Now if they didnt have gold sellers in mind when creating the game then they need an update in todays gaming scene. The fact that Zenimax is a company that excels in MMO should of for seen this.
But THATS not my main concern. Dupes ruined the game and the fact that it happened pisses me off. Zenimax should of LEARNED from every other MMO what to expect and not expect and yet they still manage to let it happen.
In all honesty I didnt want o make a big deal about it, but it just pisses me off that it did happen and could of been completely avoided.0
This discussion has been closed.