gankers are the lesser problem in ic. most of them are pve players who think that they will kill everyone like those guys on YouTube just because they have invisibility and copypasted build. they can be easily countered by detect potions. you can even slot radiant magelight and they won't do anything to you

PvP simply isn't for everyone. I think that some people are under the impression that everyone gets the same rush of excitement when they kill another player.

I've been playing battlegrounds to try and get dye achievements. I absolutely hate it. It isn't the insults or the teabagging or the griefing I hate, it's the fact that there's no satisfaction in it for me.

When I lose, I feel awful.
When I win, I feel....nothing. No satisfaction. No rush of excitement. No feelings of accomplishment.
Nothing.

My brain refuses to drop that sweet sweet dopamine for it.

If winning doesn't bring good feelings no matter how many times you win, than that's a good sign that the game just isn't for you. I can't even say the item rewards are worth it, they're so...lackluster. So it's become more "work" than "fun".

People who enjoy PvP probably don't think it's monotonous or boring or repetitive grind because they DO often get that rush of dopamine every time they win against someone. I'm sure, for them, that part of the reward lies in the act of going against an unknown opponent, and not just the alliance points or fancy gear. It's understandable, even if I can't experience it myself.

Of those who are willing to PvP: There's people who like to PvP for the sake of PvPing and there's people who PvP for the sake of loot. To bring back to the OP's statement; if there's not enough PvPers in the sewers, then perhaps changing the loot tables with spicy new items, drops, and special hours on the weekends that double drop Tel Var may coax people who are willing to PvP for the sake of loot. I know if they released new dye achievements, they'd certainly coax me into the sewers.

A pve version of the sewers would have a healthier population.
Zos keeps proving it to themselves.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Austacker wrote: »

As a PvE player why on earth would I WANT to go into a PvP zone - for anything?

Gankers will gank regardless. Cheap burst kills from shadows, they're not even looking for a 'fair fight' 99% of the time and it's just frustrating for the PvE player to contend with that rubbish.

There's a reason why people don't bother with that zone....

Is it because instead of trying it out a bunch of people cry and convin CD e each other they could never go there and because a bad thing has happened once then it will happen 100% of the time

Just simply because some people don't enjoy it, and don't want to engage in it. A lot of people, not everyone, who PvP as it has been said over and over again, present the very worst types of behavior in online gaming, in PvP. It's the people who do this that harm PvP play and ruin it for everyone else.

Yeah, why would you want to subject yourself to the kind of griefing and petty ganking and all the other things wrong with PvP if your intent is to enjoy your free time gaming? What would be the point? And if PvP mechanics are gimped because people would use things like looting your gear as a way of griefing, then again, it's those people who grief that are the problem, and negatively affect gameplay.

Allow me to give you a great example. Ultima Online started out with an amazing PvP system, it was fun, it was engaging, it was probably the best PvP there has ever been. If you killed too often you because a red character that would have a hard time going into town. If you died, your gear could be looted, a loss, something to concern yourself about, there were bounties for red characters, you had stat loss another thing to concern yourself with, you couldn't use the bank, etc. There were penalties for your bad behavior that pretty much kept PvP in check. Stat loss alone was a major pain because you would have to grind out your skills again and it took a long, long time to do that.

People interested in PvP would leave the people mining alone, people doing quests in dungeons, people just generally not wanting to engage in PvP, they were looking for people of equal talent and skill to combat, to engage in fighting because that was far more interesting and engaging.

While it lasted, it was an amazing very fun time and PvP was absolutely exciting. Then people started selling accounts on ebay, so PvPers would buy several accounts and burn them down, using them in a way that caused so much stat loss they were no longer viable, throw away PvP accounts. When that happened, people started ganking, griefing, behaving in the worst ways but they were not people who had any skill in PvP, they were the weak, the people who couldn't really fight well. Groups of these people would gank players in dungeons, continually run through mining areas and kill all the miners, people stop crafting gear to sell, gear because hard to find, people started leaving the game because of these weak people who ganged up and griefed.

So Ultima Online created a whole carebear world where PvP wasn't allowed. The PvP world became empty and the carebear world soon after.

Point is, the game was awesome so long as people were behaving, practicing self control, not griefing other players who were just interested in crafting and housing. When the game first started, people behaved as they would in real life more or less. They treated each other with respect and dignity and didn't seek to make others feel bad with intent and purpose. Many times, people would kill someone else, loot their gear and even give it back, it was awesome in almost every respect. It's also the reason why even today you find 100s of private Ultima Online servers operated by individuals because they can kick those who behave badly, and do, and they enjoy the old way Ultima Online used to be.

People behaving badly is what ruins PvP. It's what causes the population of PvP players to stay relatively low. It's why ZoS finds a need to encourage people to go into PvP zones for rewards by creating events or other things that might entice. Me saying it here or anywhere else isn't going to cause those who present the very worst parts of themselves to behave in a better way, it's never going to happen. It's been a downhill trend for 20 years. People will continue to behave badly, in the worst possible ways for any number of reasons. PvP game mechanics will continue to de-evolve so that they minimize the affect people who seek to behave badly have which diminishes PvP, no gear loss, no stat loss, no fear of really losing anything of any significant value. And people like me will realize eventually as I have, that PvP has lost the excitement and is full of gaming mechanic frustration and people frustration that it's just simply not worth even engaging in.

Why, would anyone in their right mind, want to engage in an activity, seek to, even pay to, that causes them to feel mad, sad, triggered, upset, or any other negative emotion? If I have an hour to play a game in my free time, I don't want to feel any of that, I would to be happy not frustrated and pissed off. Even if I was the very best at PvP there could possibly be, I still wouldn't want to read zone chat. Seriously, why? Do you get it?

I get the feeling you express your own anger here, at least you seem like a very angry person in all your posts I have read. No happiness, no light heartedness just angry all the time. Why would anyone want to feel angry all the time?