Anotherone773 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

vestahls wrote: »

I_am_Groot wrote: »

Personally I think being on edge knowing that someone could be lurking behind the next corner is what makes it so great, you can never get that from a PvE game because everything is scripted and predictable and believe me, I'm terrible when it comes to PvP. So stop being a bunch of milk drinkers and get in the sewers....that's where you'll find me tonight after work.
~ Cheers

Listen. I don't want to be in constant stress while playing a video game. I get constant stress at work. Personally I paid money for this thing to de-stress

It's not really stress, it's anticipation. At any time you could get into a battle and then you're gambling are you going to win and make more tel var or is this the losing battle and you lose half and bank and start again.

Except most people who would be killing NPCs in IC would not be pvpers in pvp gear and the person likely attacking them would be a ganker who would be set up for pvp. That fight would be greatly off balance with the Pvers only chance being that they suddenly had help or the ganker lagged out. Then you lose half of what you earned and bank the rest? So a worthless currency is technically only half as valuable as it worthless face value.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Wrekkedd wrote: »

Well, Midyear Mayhem came and went, now there is no incentive for people to come into the sewers other than to break free of the lag. I really enjoyed having players down there, both PvE and PvP, which is pretty much the whole design of it. How can we make that a normal thing? How about putting ANY motif drops on the bosses, like the zero legion ones from the event?

I'm primarily a PvP player, so I don't know what would drag ALL play styles to the sewers on a more regular basis. So how about you share down below, what would drive YOU to come into the sewers more often?

So i actually pvp in other games, and sometimes mess around in this one. But i dont enjoy ESO PVP all that much, when i do its usually battlegrounds but sometimes cyro. I dont enjoy mixing pvp with pve. I want to do one or the other not both at the same time and im not fond of being ganked while pveing or ganking pvers.

To answer your question to get me in the sewers more:
1) Tel Var have to be way more useful than they are. Its a lot of effort to acquire, more effort to keep, and what you can buy with them is garbage.
2) Then we have key/ key frags for vaults. Im not interested in working multiple times for the same reward. I have to obtain the reward then i have to work to use the reward. No thank you.
3) Tel var stone loss is to large especially for such a useless currency.
4) I dont want to deal with players when i am trying to pve.
5) I dont want to deal with NPCs when i am trying to pvp. ( used in a guard function is fine for NPCs)
6) In order for me to want to spend time in a zone it has to meet one of the following requirements:
- Be part of a story line i am interested in doing/completing
- Have rewards that i deem profitable.
- Be aesthetically pleasing

There are 3 zones in the game that i really dislike
- Imperial City
- Coldharbor
- Clockwork City.

1) What would you add? People always complain about tel var but realistically it's easy to acquire, easier to keep than ever, and everything you buy is useful for PVP/PVE or items that sell for lots of gold to purchase what you need.

2) What? English please?

3) If it's useless you wouldn't care about the loss. It's not. This is the main real complaint from IC, most people aren't used to the risk/reward aspect of TV gains due to it being the only place it is implemented.

4) Doesn't sound like a design flaw, sounds like a preference. I enjoy having something to do while I pvp personally

5) Again, not a design for, just a preference you then contradict

6) IC's story is one of the best/has some of the best lore in the game
- Tel Var has a 4-1 gold value. The apothecary satchels are filled with alchemy ingredients you can sell raw or turn into potions for high profits, Hakeijos are always profitable and in demand, and the skins and costumes you are able to get now sell for big profits. There's a difference between what you deem profitable and what is profitable

1) Things that are tradeable and valuable or useful. The satchel is the most useful thing in there and i can obtain its contents with 5% of the effort outside of IC as i can in it and dont have to worry about getting ganked while fighting npcs and losing half of what i worked for.

So in Eve Online you have high security safe areas and you have no security fend for yourself areas. and you have barely any security areas. The more risky the space you go into the bigger the rewards. So traveling around no security is very high risk, but the rewards are far far greater than the safe areas.

In ESO, the most dangerous places also have the worst rewards. The rewards do not match the risk.

2)You collect key frags and then take them to vaults and they are turned into keys and you get gear as a reward. You have to collect the frags THEN make it to the desired vault to collect the reward. The gear can be obtained other ways which makes the vaults unnecessary. It is a stupid system, that had potential but like most things was poorly thought out and implemented.

3) Its useless because of : A) What can be bought with it is worthless and because of the mechanic in which you either have to run around with a low multiplier and bank every 10-15 minutes or run with a high multiplier and give up half of what you worked for because of some ganker. BOTH A and B make it useless.

4)Id say a good majority prefer to either/other and not try to do both at the same time.

5) Its not a design flaw the entire zone is poorly designed, like all pvp in this game. To much trying to reinvent the wheel without actually putting thought in how or why the wheel was invented the first time.

6) I am not interested in the story because i dont want to be interrupted constantly by pvpers while trying to "story mode" When i do stories, i want to be left alone. I dont even do dungeon stories because i feel rushed all the time. I just click through them and do what i need to get the SP.
- Those ingredients that cost 500 tel var.... i can farm those in a normal zone in less than 2 minutes and pick other nodes and get chests while doing it.

Realistically, i can get 12 to 15k for Hakeijo. It cost 5k tel var. Unless i tried to form or find a group, starting with 0 tel var, it would take me an hour or so to get that much tel var and thats if i didnt die. I make more than that accidentally outside of IC. The skins have about a 5 or 6 to 1 rate but for the effort required to get the tel var for the skin, i could make 10 -20 times that outside of IC depending RNG doing a multitude of more enjoyable activities.

Im a multi millionaire in this game because i dont waste my time with worthless time sinks like IC. Your only solid counter argument is the storyline which makes me sad but it is what it is. IC is a zone with an identity crisis taken seriously by neither Pvers or Pvpers.

If you're in a PVP zone then you're a PVPer, you're not a PVEer killing NPCs. I also wanna point out that everyone kills NPCs, that's the point of IC. It's not PVP or PvE it's a PVPVE zone and its entire purpose is to be at up like that. Would I also assume that someone fighting NPCs in Cyrodiil is a PVEer as well? If you go into a zone with PVP you have to be prepared to PVP regardless of your skill. You can't keep calling telvar worthless either, if people are in there for that then it obviously has value.

2nd part
1) They already have plenty of those things in already. The Xivkyn poly morphs sell for about 750k each and in the last year they added the siegemaster helm/costume. That's not including the apothecary stuff and some of the few item sets that do still sell really well. I can personally attest I've sold or traded 2 siegemaster costumes and I've made about 4million gold from them. I just farmed up a 4th to sell (I used the 3rd).

TV gains in the sewers will also far exceed any farming you do for overland mats.

2) The vaults are necessary because the people selling the gear in other places would still have to make the run themselves and invest large amounts of gold on key fragments or farm them up by themselves. It has the same risk everywhere else has except you don't lose keys. The first couple years of the game the stuff you got from IC had some of the highest values in the game. The one Tamriel update was the down fall of that with the sets they added.

3) it isn't worthless you're assigning it's worth because you dont like the mechanic it is gained from. All the items in there have lots of gold value and have maintained their prices for 5 years and farming IC can be one of the most lucrative ways to make money for experienced farmers.

4) It isn't made for those people so it doesnt matter if the majority preference is or isnt. IC is made to be a PVPVE zone, it is meant for small scale ⁸players that are able to handle objectives and pvp at the same time.

5) I've played other PVP games, this isnt reinventing the wheel. Balance aside it is well executed and it's nothing a game like WoW didnt have for years as entire server options.

6) The PVP is part of the storyline. You are supposed to be freeing the city for your faction and helping the Drake of Blades. Whether or not you like it is a different story but it is still a great storyline and it still has great lore. Just because you're choosing not to do it none of that is taken away from the zone. You just havent experienced any of what it really has to offer in conjunction with the pvp and you're still trying to make a judgement on it.

You can farm the zone in 2min and get a fraction of what would be in the Tel Var bag and in those 2min I can solo an IC boss, get 6k tel var and get 12 bags. IC will always out pace regular farming, that's why those are there and why the risk on your TV stash is so great.

The same effort doesnt apply to everyone, just because you can't make money efficiently in IC doesnt mean it doesnt exist. The truth is the difficulty is a big part of why those prices exist and you have some of the best rewards locked behind some of the hardest content.

If i am in a pvp zone, i am there to pvp and not interested in PVE, so the NPCs are nothing more than a pain. If the game is fully designed around pvp with pve in it then NPCs are fine, but IC is just full of trash mobs that get in your way when your trying to pvp.

Also i dont need "something to do" while pvping. Im either fighting or hunting, not hanging out hoping someone shows up to spar with me.

1) The polys sell for closer to 1.5 million on PC NA but that is not the point. The point is time VS reward is not anywhere close to other MORE ENJOYABLE ways to earn gold. The reward is not sufficient enough to make the risk worthwhile vs the rest of the game.

2) The vaults are not necessary because you can get the items in the vaults from other sources. The vaults are not needed for anything. No gear set in any of the vaults are exclusive to the vaults.

3) I believe the OP question that i answered was " What would it take to get you into the sewers more?" I bet most of the people who have been to IC and experienced different elements of IC including dying and losing stones and spending stones would tell you that those stones are not worth the effort required. You might find them to be of value but i dont. If i want to PVE i have the other 32 zones to do that in. If i want to pvp for something that i find useful, ill do BGs for AP.

4) Everything in a video game is made for the majority. You dont make video games and then base it a small percent of your player base. Why do you think there has never been another IC? Because it was an experiment and huge failure. They have done things to make it more enticing to people with very little positive results. The population of this game either wants to PVP OR PVE, not both at the same time.

5) That is your opinion. In my opinion PVP is poorly done in ESO, and rather boring. Not even PVP players enjoy it. They are constantly complaining about the state of PVP and what a constant mess its in. While i differ with them on why its a mess, nonetheless it is currently a disaster as ZOS cannot seem to develop a plan to develop a balanced bug free game. That crown store is nice and organized and bug free though!

6) As i said storyline is not something im interested in for the same reasons im not interested in dungeon storylines.

The boss respawns are slow and you have to get to them. Then you have to be able to solo them without getting interrupted. then you have to make it back to base. Its a lot of steps and requires you to solo IC bosses and not to be bothered. That might be fine in an ideal situation, but you rarely get ideal situations in pvp. In fact you usually have an overwhelming advantage or an overwhelming disadvantage. No thank you.

If IC was so great for farming, you wouldnt be trying so hard to convince more people to come there and take all your boss spawns which drop such great loot. But its far easier for you to let pvers come to IC and farm the npcs and then you just gank them.

I use to pvp in a game that is far far more hardcore than this one. I would never try to convince people to come PVE in my secret great PVE spots if i didnt plan on letting them farm the spots and just taking the stuff they farmed and saving myself a bunch of time.

The trash mobs are there for a reason, if you're ok with them getting in the way in Cyrodiil you should be ok with them getting in the way in IC.

It's the same reason they add CTF, Domination, and other game types to Battlegrounds and to games like CoD and other shooters. There's a market for it and while it isn't as popular as a TDM would be there is still demand for it whether it appeals to you or not.

1) "Enjoyment" isn't really a factor people consider with farming so it doesn't really matter. Farming inherently isn't an enjoyable experience to many people and what you consider enjoyable isn't subjective to what I enjoy. The rewards are more than sufficient for the risk, it's just not something you enjoy which is entirely different.

2) It doesn't matter, they were 5 years ago when it was introduced so it doesn't make sense to take them out now especially if you're complaining there's not enough to do. It's just another system you don't like it doesn't make it bad.

3) That's great. So your answer to what would get you into the sewers more is to make all the reasons people go to the sewers easier for you to get which eventually kills the reason to go to the sewers. No, it's a horrible idea.

They are valuable, you don't find value in them because you don't want to farm them. They still have tons of value.

4) That doesn't mean anything lol. Maybe they don't feel the need to release another PVP dlc because they feel like Cyrodiil and IC are enough. It doesn't mean it was a success or not. If that was the case small adventure zones wouldn't exist anymore because that's not really what the playerbase wants.

Imagine applying that logic to other aspects of the game "Hey guys, they only released 1 housing update, that means it was a failure" "hey guys, they aren't releasing a new class with the new chapter, that means new classes were a failure," "hey guys, they aren't releasing a new skill line, new skill lines must be a failure" "hey guys, they're not releasing a new trial, trials must be failures." Think for a second.

5) People are complaining about the state of the servers and the lag and disconnects that go with them. It's different then complaining about how they made pvp. The people playing ESO for the large scale PVP are here for how they made PVP.

6) You can group for all the bosses and they all have the same spawn rate and time as everything else in the game. If you can do it in PVE you can do it in IC. You're never at a disadvantage or an advantage, that's just negative thinking on your part. It's no different then any thing else.

I like how you and Backstabeth always try and twist things. I'm not trying to convince anyone to come to IC, I'm just stating facts you don't like. I'm perfectly with none of you coming to IC because then there's more stuff for me to farm. The reality is you're trying to convince people that farming in IC is bad and not lucrative and I'm just merely pointing out the holes in your logic.

It's always gotta be hysteria too, "oh the boogey man is going to gank me." That's baby talk. You don't even know what faction I play on, maybe I'm inviting people to IC to help them.

I use to pvp in a game that is far far more hardcore than this one. I would never try to convince people to come PVE in my secret great PVE spots if i didnt plan on letting them farm the spots and just taking the stuff they farmed and saving myself a bunch of time.

LOL yeah I'm sure, that's why you can't even name the game.

I also think we found the real problem. I've never encouraged anyone to come to IC, I've only said you can make as much farming IC as you can in PVE. Clearly I'm very correct or you wouldn't be so up in arms about this.

None of these spots are secret and if I'm encouraging anything it's questing in IC. You have to eventually not be scared of life and try something new. I don't need to travel IC anymore so you don't have to be scared of anyone but yourself.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

@Rave the Histborn

I was going to reply to your post, but you are just being exhausting now with all these petty arguments.

I did go to IC tonight. I made more looting containers at the base than i did out and about. I managed to make 42 stone profit in 35 min and got ganked 4 times in 2 districts. The market value of items i found in my home base in the sewers was about 7 times the value of the stones, quest gold, and junk i got actually trying to kill stuff and do quest in IC. I was thinking about doing a round in the sewers but having to fight your way out and fight you way back is a lot of effort for a useless currency.

Oh and that game that i wouldnt mention, i actually mention it a lot. It's Eve. If you never played when you "die" in Eve you lose everything. Not some stones. Every fight is winner takes all( well except what is destroyed). PVP is more strategic and being bad at pvp can get very expensive quickly.

They're only "petty" because you've run out of ways to twist them from the truth. Odd that my arguments are petty but trying to paint me negatively isn't.

It's that's weird that you only made 42 stones in 35min. It's almost like this is a made up story because I can make more 42 stones from 1 mob in 30 seconds. Look I don't mind talking to you but if you're going to lie it's just not worth it.

Eve is a terrible MMO in general but it's also a horrible comparison to PVP in ESO. PVP in EVE boils down to an actual money grab.

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

I would love to see PvE/PvP in all zones but that is never going to happen.

Why? You are scared to even fight someone 1v1?

Neoealth wrote: »

I made 70k tel var during the MM. Not a great deal maybe, but what do you recommend I spend them on? And no I won't take them out of the bank and wander around the sewers, they are mine! HA

Hakeijos are worth it for personal use or for sale. I'd also recommend the waxed apothecary satchels for the same reason. If you're going for more personal use the Daedric brazier is worth it and so are getting the polymorphs. You can probably get 1 or 2 from the random equipment boxes the merchants sell (one type has chances of the polys and the drop rates are pretty good on them)

redgreensunset wrote: »

I guess for me I simply don't see the point of IC. Apart from killing other players which can be done in both Cyrodiil, BGs and by dueling them, which can be done anywhere.
Like, what's the point of IC specifically? What does it have that means I should go there, and not a ton of other places. Especially as pvp in the form of "just killing other players for no other purpose than killing them" is not really a draw for me and never have been. Yes I know there's tel var but none of the stuff you can get for that looks nearly compelling enough and as far as I can tell there's literally no other point to IC. There's no campaign, no strategy to it. It's just... killing other players. Which hooray for the people who enjoy that but what else is there?

It's like asking why a game like Call of Duty has game modes like Capture the flag or domination. Like I'd I wanted to kill things I'd play TDM and if I wanted objectives I'd just play single player right? Wrong.

Just like every other zone IC sets and items specific to that zone. It's not killing for no other purpose than killing, although that definition would apply more to PVE than PVP. It is basically a giant PVE resource farm designed around PVP so there's a risk reward system in place and the value maintains.

Damn Rave, your essays are like chasing the rock humpers on the cheese builds in Cyro, eventually I just sheathe my weps and wait to get killed so I can respawn somewhere else.

Neoealth wrote: »

I made 70k tel var during the MM. Not a great deal maybe, but what do you recommend I spend them on? And no I won't take them out of the bank and wander around the sewers, they are mine! HA

Hakeijos are probably what you'd get most use out of.