In the ESO timeline if all the factions fell apart which province would be the most powerful?

illiobro_ESO · February 2020

Out of the 10 provinces(Including Orsinium) assuming the alliances broke apart and each province was able to unite fully which province would be the most powerful? And if there was all out war which provinces would conquer the most? In my opinion Morrowind is the obvious answer but there are good arguments for High Rock, Cyrodiil,Hammerfell, Black Marsh or Summer Set.

Karm1cOne · February 2020

Cannonically summerset held out longest against Tiber Septim. Took the Numidium to defeat them and incorporate it onto the Empire.

dem0n1k · February 2020

Murkmire... Argonian Powahhhhh!!

lol

LarsS · February 2020

History tell you that cyrodiil wins again and again.

The_Drop_Bear · February 2020

Karm1cOne wrote: »

Cannonically summerset held out longest against Tiber Septim. Took the Numidium to defeat them and incorporate it onto the Empire.

Summerset fell the quickest (granted he did use the numidium)

TheShadowScout · February 2020

Well, canonically it was all more or less in balance until Tiber Septim conquered everything.

Though while all the alliances fell apart, some fell harder then others.

The covenant for example will not survive Emrics death - his alliances are pretty much only thing left holding them together - the orcs are one step out the door after the events of "orsinium" anyhow (since the one who made the covenant treaty was Kurog personally, and not the orc tribes as a whole...), the bretons will quarrel among themselves when the qestion of emrics succession becomes a thing, and the redguards... will just turn their back to the whole mess and look to their own issues (I am guessing internal strife between crowns and forebears). And neither of them will be more powerful then any other province (but no less either, the redguards especially are gonna be as sword-happy as always after all!)

The dominion will fall apart in the coming decades as old rifts crack open again as soon as the covenant stops looming threatening across the bay, yes, but they will also reform later on, so I am guessing they are still being more or less "good neighbors" during the time, and thus could rightfully be considered a power to be reckoned with. And it WILL take the Numidium to take them down in the tiber wars.

The pact will also fall apart as soon as the other alliances stop being a threat, they only ever banded together for mutual defense anyhow. The nords will go back to raiding and drinking mead, the dunmer will go back to power struggles and slave-taking, and the argonians will go back to their swamps, and chains in some cases. The nords will join Talos right away, the dunmer tribunal will frigging -give- him the numidium and join per treaty (mostly because at that point, they just got their godly arses kicked by the newly awakened dagoth ur, and are not up fot a all out fight, yet looking to the future with worry, perhaps hoping imperial allies will help someday...) and the argonians... still sit in their swamp and try to stay chain-free, biding their time for what the hist has told them will one day come (the red year)

Nomadic_Atmoran · February 2020

Karm1cOne wrote: »

Cannonically summerset held out longest against Tiber Septim. Took the Numidium to defeat them and incorporate it onto the Empire.

While this is true, it is far easier to defend an island than it is to assault one. Amphibious landings are always difficult and leave troops out in the open to be picked off as they come a shore. And being that the Altmer are by far the most magicka inclined race its not a stretch to believe they would have their islands pretty well shored up from magical attacks like portals.

xaraan · February 2020

I think the bigger issue is projecting force vs. just being strong where a kingdom is. Black Marsh, Summerset, and to a lesser degree Morrowind and even Skryim are all pretty solid territories to defend, especially Black Marsh and Summerset. But just because they'd be hard to conquer doesn't mean they'd be good at taking over everything else. This is probably why Imperials did so well, they are situated in a good spot to reach everyone without being too far cut off from their homeland, they have good access to the sea even though they are in the middle of the continent and they seem to have a good amount of experience at it as well. It would be interesting to see where they really were at in terms of power if everyone had to fend for themselves and they didn't have to deal with Molag Bal anymore as they would be more in recovery mode than even the three alliances and without a king.

Rave the Histborn · February 2020

Morrowwind. The Tribunal was the only real power that could stand against Tiber Septim in cannon and even they fell

Karm1cOne · February 2020

The_Drop_Bear wrote: »

Karm1cOne wrote: »

Cannonically summerset held out longest against Tiber Septim. Took the Numidium to defeat them and incorporate it onto the Empire.

Summerset fell the quickest (granted he did use the numidium)

Not sure you can argue that the Aldmeris didnt hold out longer than all the human territories. Or that without the Numidium, the high elves would not have kept Imperial sea forces at bay for a considerable time.

The only other territory that could make an arguement for strongest would be Black Marsh, as even Imperial forces didnt want to enter the deep jungles. They didnt exactly put up a great fight either.

VaranisArano · February 2020

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Karm1cOne wrote: »

Cannonically summerset held out longest against Tiber Septim. Took the Numidium to defeat them and incorporate it onto the Empire.

While this is true, it is far easier to defend an island than it is to assault one. Amphibious landings are always difficult and leave troops out in the open to be picked off as they come a shore. And being that the Altmer are by far the most magicka inclined race its not a stretch to believe they would have their islands pretty well shored up from magical attacks like portals.

Its ironic you say that last bit when the Altmer got absolutely hammered during the Oblivion Crisis, including the destruction of Crystal-Like-Law.

Ratzkifal · February 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Morrowwind. The Tribunal was the only real power that could stand against Tiber Septim in cannon and even they fell

They didn't exactly fall. They went the diplomatic way to avoid bloodshed. Morrowind gets special status in the empire and gets to more or less govern itself, while Tiber Septim gets the Numidium and the Imperials get to do business in Morrowind.

I also think it's probably Morrowind. They currently have three living gods at the height of their power and the deactivated Numidium and even the heart of Lorkhan to power it if they wanted. Divayth Fyr has the Skeleton key as well.

Cyrodiil, even when unified, is still currently weakened.
The Summerset isles are currently at a low in terms of population, according to former loremaster Schick, which is why they have a city sinking into the ocean.
Even without the Dragons, the flu ravaged Elsweyr heavily.
Similarly Valenwood has been ravaged by the flu and only recovered so quickly thanks to Altmeri help, which of course would cease in this scenario.
The Bretons without their intrigues would probably be the second strongest as these schemes are what usually hold them back.
The Redguards fight fiercely but if you throw a single necromancer at them, they are useless, and there are plenty of those to go around, especially among the top contenders.
The Nords without the Greybeards and Paarthurnax are a bit better than the Redguards since they don't share their disadvantage against necromancy, with Greybeards and Paarthurnax fighting for them, we'd need to expect an army of Nords wielding the Thuum, which is powerful but has already been driven back by the Tribunal before, so still not a number one, but probably number two.
The Argonians have the Hist, which is a big advantage, but considering that the Hist, despite their connections and vast knowledge have not attacked the Dark Elves before the fall of the Tribunal and the Red Year tells us that they don't see a way to win this war currently. Nobody except the Dark Elves could conquer them, but their chances of conquering any other land are low.

Nomadic_Atmoran · February 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Karm1cOne wrote: »

Cannonically summerset held out longest against Tiber Septim. Took the Numidium to defeat them and incorporate it onto the Empire.

While this is true, it is far easier to defend an island than it is to assault one. Amphibious landings are always difficult and leave troops out in the open to be picked off as they come a shore. And being that the Altmer are by far the most magicka inclined race its not a stretch to believe they would have their islands pretty well shored up from magical attacks like portals.

Its ironic you say that last bit when the Altmer got absolutely hammered during the Oblivion Crisis, including the destruction of Crystal-Like-Law.

I meant in the sense of expecting an attack. Not that they're constantly warding their islands like a paranoid preparer jarring fruit preserves.

Rave the Histborn · February 2020

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Morrowwind. The Tribunal was the only real power that could stand against Tiber Septim in cannon and even they fell

They didn't exactly fall. They went the diplomatic way to avoid bloodshed. Morrowind gets special status in the empire and gets to more or less govern itself, while Tiber Septim gets the Numidium and the Imperials get to do business in Morrowind.

I also think it's probably Morrowind. They currently have three living gods at the height of their power and the deactivated Numidium and even the heart of Lorkhan to power it if they wanted. Divayth Fyr has the Skeleton key as well.

Cyrodiil, even when unified, is still currently weakened.
The Summerset isles are currently at a low in terms of population, according to former loremaster Schick, which is why they have a city sinking into the ocean.
Even without the Dragons, the flu ravaged Elsweyr heavily.
Similarly Valenwood has been ravaged by the flu and only recovered so quickly thanks to Altmeri help, which of course would cease in this scenario.
The Bretons without their intrigues would probably be the second strongest as these schemes are what usually hold them back.
The Redguards fight fiercely but if you throw a single necromancer at them, they are useless, and there are plenty of those to go around, especially among the top contenders.
The Nords without the Greybeards and Paarthurnax are a bit better than the Redguards since they don't share their disadvantage against necromancy, with Greybeards and Paarthurnax fighting for them, we'd need to expect an army of Nords wielding the Thuum, which is powerful but has already been driven back by the Tribunal before, so still not a number one, but probably number two.
The Argonians have the Hist, which is a big advantage, but considering that the Hist, despite their connections and vast knowledge have not attacked the Dark Elves before the fall of the Tribunal and the Red Year tells us that they don't see a way to win this war currently. Nobody except the Dark Elves could conquer them, but their chances of conquering any other land are low.

Thanks! I couldnt agree more and I'm at work so you elaborated better than I could atm. I also agree with the Argonians being another potential hold out between their hostile geography and seeing what they did during the Oblivion crisis

amapola76 · February 2020

It depends on what you mean by "powerful." Are we talking military power, economic power, soft/cultural power? Even with respect to military power, are we talking about the capability to advance a strong forward assault (say, the Imperials, the Nords) or an effective counter-insurgency (Bosmer, Argonians)?

Arguably the real power of the Imperials could be seen as the power to diplomatically manage the interplay between the different forms of power wielded by the different provinces, and bring balance to the forc.... umm, balance to Tamriel.

ArchMikem · February 2020

If the Daedra themselves had to close their own portals during their invasion of Tamriel in the 3rd Era because the Argonians' counterattack was so destructive, that kinda answers your question.

Kombinator · February 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Morrowwind. The Tribunal was the only real power that could stand against Tiber Septim in cannon and even they fell

They did not actually. Morrowind was "taken over" by treaty, and not by blood. Summerset only fell, because of the Numidium, and without that Tiber Septim could never conquer it.

Beyond them there was Black Marsh which fell through treaty, and was NEVER conquered. By anyone ever to be correct. The very land destroys anyone who is not Argonian in the insides, and conquering it is next to impossible.

But just because you can't conquer something it doesn't mean they are good at conquering you. Black Marsh might be a safe heaven for Argonians with superior natural protection, but that didn't made the Argonians strong enough to ever stand against the Dunmer.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its ironic you say that last bit when the Altmer got absolutely hammered during the Oblivion Crisis, including the destruction of Crystal-Like-Law.

The person who started it was an Altmer himself, and it is very likely, that he had far the most allies there. Also magic is something, that the Daedra can use as well even better, than the Altmer.

But to make a counter argument how about the Imperial loss during the "great war" right before the events of Skyrim.

ArchMikem wrote: »

If the Daedra themselves had to close their own portals during their invasion of Tamriel in the 3rd Era because the Argonians' counterattack was so destructive, that kinda answers your question.

Now that is an odd stuff. The Argonian's ass were kicked before, and after. A LOT. I prefer to believe the theory, that the Hist does not really care for the Argonians, and thus leaves them as they are. However. The Oblivion crisis was something, that threatened the Hist itself. So in order to protect itself the Hist temporarily improved the Argonians to be able the face the threat.

But this temporal improvement was never meant to last, and was not for the sake of the Argonians. It was for the sake of the Hist. If the Hist itself is selfish, then it might be useful to it to keep the Argonians otherwise weak. If they can't conquer, then they remain at home. That means more servants for the Hist.

As for the OP. The Tribunal without doubt is far the most powerful power at the moment of ESO. If they were truly interested in conquest, then could have conquered all of Tamriel already. They literary FORCED the most powerful daedric princes to do their bidding. Someone powerful enough to put even beings such as Molag Bal into submission is not to be taken easily. Dagoth Ur return is like 200 from the game's timescale so the Tribunal is probably in full power for now.

FakeFox · February 2020

In my opinion it would be Morrowind by far. The Dunmer, excluding the Ashlander, have a very effective social Structure that perfectly supports a position of power with trade, diplomacy, religion and military strength. They are also holding vast amounts of resources and territory that are already protected against both Skyrim and Blackmarsh. But the most important factor is in my opinion the tribunal. Powerful individuals are what often turns the tide in Elder Scrolls, more so then any army could. Especially when dealing with Deadra and other greater powers. And Morrowind has arguably the three most powerful individuals under one banner. Ultimately the Dunmer are a culture built on survival at all costs as its very core and that is what makes them so powerful, but it is also the reason why they ultimately fall to their hunger for power.

Olauron · February 2020

illiobro_ESO wrote: »

Out of the 10 provinces(Including Orsinium) assuming the alliances broke apart and each province was able to unite fully which province would be the most powerful? And if there was all out war which provinces would conquer the most? In my opinion Morrowind is the obvious answer but there are good arguments for High Rock, Cyrodiil,Hammerfell, Black Marsh or Summer Set.

Should I remind you of the Great War?

Morrowind pre Oblivion Crisis is in a good shape too though.

caperb · February 2020

Dunno about argonians. They lost ALL important battles they ever fought with the exception of the oblivion crisis (which was because their trees) and them fighting the dunmer after the red year.

Coppes · February 2020

If all the factions fell apart RIGHT now.

You’d probably see just securing their borders.

Nomadic_Atmoran · February 2020

Spaceroamer wrote: »

If all the factions fell apart RIGHT now.

You’d probably see just securing their borders.

This is probably the closest to the truth. None of the kingdoms or alliances have individually what they have together. I was just going over the in-game leadership and the three that would immediately fall off are the Argonians, Orsimer and Khajiit for obvious reasons. But all of the other races would immediately be facing internal issues or just not have the resources to do much more than sit on their hands and hope their neighbors don't get any silly ideas about conquering them.

Aside from the human provinces, most of the elven and beastfolk provinces have a long history of keeping to themselves for the most part. Raids on border towns and for the purpose of slaves is par for the course and usually ends quickly enough. Occasionally it snowballs into conflict but rarely does the provinces lose or gain territory for very long. The only reason we are seeing so many vying for the throne now is because its a power vacuum. Its naturally going to draw land-grabs and excuses for war. But eventually this will stagnate and the more powerful members of the alliances (Altmer/Bosmer, Breton/Redguard. Nord/Dunmer) will carve up what land they have gained from their conquests. But in the aftermath of the Three Banners War its unlikely any of these races will be able to project any force for sometime into the future.

The_Drop_Bear · February 2020

Karm1cOne wrote: »

The_Drop_Bear wrote: »

Karm1cOne wrote: »

Cannonically summerset held out longest against Tiber Septim. Took the Numidium to defeat them and incorporate it onto the Empire.

Summerset fell the quickest (granted he did use the numidium)

Not sure you can argue that the Aldmeris didnt hold out longer than all the human territories. Or that without the Numidium, the high elves would not have kept Imperial sea forces at bay for a considerable time.

The only other territory that could make an arguement for strongest would be Black Marsh, as even Imperial forces didnt want to enter the deep jungles. They didnt exactly put up a great fight either.

Because when Tiber actually got round to attacking them they didn't last long. Granted he wouldn't have had much of a chance without the numidium but they didn't hold our for the longest at all.

madeeh91rwb17_ESO · February 2020

I don't think people realize how huge the hammerfell really is.
The 5 zones that we've got in the game, are not even half of it.

The main heartland(Place like Gilane) are actually more prosperous than the borderlands we've got.

ayu_fever · February 2020

morrowind because dark elf master race.

-morag tong assassinate all major bloodlines and all with high position authorities throughout tamriel.
-the full enslavement of khajiit and argonian races (they are NOT people! they are OBJECTS hollow of spirit and meaning!)
-all khajiit and argonians who resist their purpose of serving dunmeri for eternity are publicly and viciously executed.
-house telvanni rules all of tamriel.
-the tribunal ascend to beyond daedric status and wipe out all the divines.
-give up your false blasphemous faiths and convert to worship the tribunal or be publicly and viciously executed.

Coppes · February 2020

I’d say Redguards (not conquering, but powerful) only in the condition that Crowns and Forebear put aside their differences.

They already control the 2nd biggest region in Tamriel, it can only get better from there.

Necromancers; Ash’aba?
Warriors and mages? Sword-Singers.

Tommy_The_Gun · February 2020

Well, idk what region would be the most powerful, but I think it is safe to say that the one that would survive is probably some isolated region of Black Marsh (currently not in the game).
My point is that we would have all of the "regions" fighting each other, but no one would be interested in Black Marsh. Which means that there would be no war / devastation there. There is simply no "known" value and gain if one would decide to conquer that region. It would be a waste of resources.
And if you would add a numerous historical attempts to conquer that regions - all of them failed...

The_Drop_Bear · February 2020

Spaceroamer wrote: »

I’d say Redguards (not conquering, but powerful) only in the condition that Crowns and Forebear put aside their differences.

They already control the 2nd biggest region in Tamriel, it can only get better from there.

Necromancers; Ash’aba?
Warriors and mages? Sword-Singers.

They have nothing on the power of morrowind or Summerset

dazee · February 2020

Nords. the power of MEAD!!