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Champion Point discussion.
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FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »Scrap it
Buff abilities back up, and give classes some flavor back. ESO classes are like British food.
Hmmm you mean that they’re happy to take in diverse influences from all corners of the globe, highly adaptable, creative and super tasty?
Because that’s what British cuisine is all about.
And I’d love those qualities to apply to ESO classes.
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Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How would you approach the system
One thing I love about the current system is the flexibility in terms of how you progress, i.e. it's just plain old experience points which can come from quests, killing things etc. etc.
Keep that.
Don't do what Star Trek Online did, which is make a system which gives 3 ridiculous and arbitrary chores every day.
A bit like that Clockwork City daily.
How would one find a way to eliminate the power creep
Instead of boosting player strength, boost player options.
Eg. as I've suggested previously, ZO could get rid of the current morph system which requires to make a permanent (have to pay gold to change) choice and only have 1 version of the ability they can use.
Create multiple versions of every class ability and allow players to learn them all.
The visuals could be very similar - keeping cost down - but could offer different functionality. Meaning it's more likely that any given player could find a use for any given ability. And also offer more flexibility and variety in game play.
That would also go some way towards fulfilling the promise of spellcrafting.
Include weapons and other non-class skill lines in this.
Like the current CP system make progress account wide, but dependent on actually using or having abilities slotted. So if you want to earn more options you need to slot those abilities.2 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Skullstachio wrote: »If the Champion System were to be Reworked into something completely new, or scrapped in its entirety. How would one go about replacing it with something that all players can use.
In my opinion, I would rather see the champion point system reworked into something entirely new.
Such questions include:- How would you approach the system.
- How would one find a way to eliminate the power creep.
- How would it appeal to each playable class in both PvE and PvP.
1.) I wouldnt, I´m not a Gamedesigner. All I know is that, since Gearing is Horizontal in this game after a point, there needs to be something to work towards to.
2.) Why would you want to eliminate the Power Creep? The whole point of mmo`s is to make your character stronger over time. Without it there is very little point left.
3.) I have no idea what that question is about. So I guess my answer is "About the same?". I seriously cant say if that answer fits to that question.
1. I believe that what I’m working towards is not some arbitrary level of character godhood, but the skill and ability to complete the hardest content in the game. I think of everything before CP cap as training. The real progression, my progression, only starts when I get there.
2. Power creep is exactly the opposite. It’s not the point of the game. I don’t want to be able to complete content simply because this week my character had some extra CP *** on them. That’s a wholly artificial illusion of progression. I haven’t got any better. It’s like nerfing the content to make it easier, but just for me. It’s like a dirty secret I have to keep locked in the basement. My characters should get stronger because I get better. That’s the point.
2 -
Uvi_AUT✭✭✭✭✭
You are definitely in the wrong Genre. Everything you describe is most commonly found in other genres. mmorpgs are the definition of putting in hours to get stronger and stronger, without a ceiling (or an unreachable one).
1. I believe that what I’m working towards is not some arbitrary level of character godhood, but the skill and ability to complete the hardest content in the game. I think of everything before CP cap as training. The real progression, my progression, only starts when I get there.
2. Power creep is exactly the opposite. It’s not the point of the game. I don’t want to be able to complete content simply because this week my character had some extra CP *** on them. That’s a wholly artificial illusion of progression. I haven’t got any better. It’s like nerfing the content to make it easier, but just for me. It’s like a dirty secret I have to keep locked in the basement. My characters should get stronger because I get better. That’s the point.
Sure, "Skill" (I hate that word when referring to Videogames, just hate it) has its place, but its not the most important part, by far.
Registered since 2014, Customer Service lost my Forum-Account and can't find it.....1 -
Uvi_AUT✭✭✭✭✭doublepost
Edited by Uvi_AUT on February 13, 2020 12:44PMRegistered since 2014, Customer Service lost my Forum-Account and can't find it.....0 -
Uvi_AUT✭✭✭✭✭doublepost
Edited by Uvi_AUT on February 13, 2020 12:41PMRegistered since 2014, Customer Service lost my Forum-Account and can't find it.....0 -
Brandathorbel✭✭✭✭✭It would be interesting to have two tiers of cp.
combat focused CP that is capped, and a non combat cp.
I created a thief only nightblade. did the thieves and brotherhood quests to cap, ledgermain etc. Would be nice to have cp i could place in increasing other things like drop rates etc. Would make me play more1 -
sekou_trayvond✭✭✭✭✭My two cents that I've espoused quietly over time:
CP is fine, but I would prefer it be directly tied to skills rather a system whereby one point expended garners you a .08 percent increase in this or that buff.
I'd prefer a system where CP are points you can expend to buff skills, e.g. Spend 50 CP to make Hail of Arrows do X more damage, or Spend 100 CP to increase the radius of Caltrops. Stuff like that. Depending on the CP cost of said buffs, you could design the system where the allocation of points is more meatier and makes the player consider varied options.
It could act like a much more dynamic system that you switch in and out of points depending upon content or toon role. Right now, CP allocation is VERY rote.3 -
Agalloch✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »what level would you say where CP starts to give very little return? about 600?
Level 1. Seriously it depends on the build. After about 30 points in something, diminishing returns really send you downhill. Past 50 and its nearly pointless.Looking at first years of ESO, I wouldn't say PvP is an afterthought. It actually supposed to be the main goal and selling point of the game. Moreover, 3 factions fighting each other in the central big area is what the ESO's predecessor Dark Ages of Camelot was about.
But in the end PvE started to bring more money, that's why ESO has turned into a PvE game with just a little attention to PvP.
There is nothing in this game or its advertising that gives the impression its a pvp game. In fact when i started playing in 2016? I actually googled "ESO PVP" to see if it had PVP and where it was. The entire premise of the game was that you were suppose to help your faction in the 3 banners war. That does not mean that it had to be a 3 way pvp match. The design of cyro gives the impression it was thrown together, or they let first week interns design it with no oversight( which would explain a lot tbh).
I dont totally disagree with you, though. I think they thought they need PVP in this game to survive because back when it was about time to be released we had Call of Duty and Game of War released. And Game of War was advertising hard on TV like like WoW use too. I think that spooked them because these games were taking a lot of players who were whaling on them. Phones were starting to become good with games, just like back in the early 90s when you owned a console if you wanted great gaming by the early 2000s computers had caught up and started to pass consoles as the go to gaming platform. Around 2010, mobile started to do the same thing as games got better and better.
Cyro failed to attract a lot of PVPers. It didnt have the cool battlegrounds of WoW, the scope or risk/reward system of EVE, and become came infamously known as Horse Simulator Online as you spent 5 minutes riding your horse to die in 5-10 seconds. It just isnt exciting pvp. The reason for pvping isnt exciting and it is the dullest looking zone in the game when in oblivion it was the beautiful lush zone. Cyro in ESO looks like belongs in a game made in 2005.
Next up IC. They actually made a PVP zone worse than Cyro. That was impressive. This zone use to be so hard to get too. It has gotten easier but the difficulty of getting there was only the first problem. This zone tries to mix PVP and PVE with a risk/reward system like EVE, but it actually ended up more like turning on PVP in Rift while out in a zone except no choice here.
The zone didnt appeal to many pvpers because trash mobs everywhere and PVPers like killing NPCs while pvping as PVEers like killing trash mobs when doing dungeons and trials. It is a pointless waste of energy. PVEers had to fight there way through mobs in a tiny zone in which they were likely to get ganked as soon as they started to engage an NPC. Then they lost half of the rewards they spend all that time earning. Then to pour acid in that wound, what you could purchase with the stones was an absolute joke. No thank you. IC was a huge fail. Strike two.
Attempt 3: Morrowind and battlegrounds. WoW had success with battlegrounds, maybe that was the secret. Except every battleground is the same with a few tweaks and reskins. Its like Im buying a car from Henry Ford. I can have any Model i want as long as it is a Model T and any color i want as long as that color is black. Lets chase each other around a big circle with very boring objectives that require little to no strategy! YAY!
Then they "improved" battlegrounds by adding slightly deformed ovals. Well definitely not going to steal GE's slogan of "Imagination at Work" with that one. BGs still lack the creative play and objectives of WOW BGs. If you were to use the matching system in real life it would match a pink party balloon with a car tire because you can fill both with air.
I think they realized they arent good at this PVP thing. But instead of throwing new poorly thought out ideas at us, they need to make what they have useable and interesting.
You should watch the advertising before ESO launch..also you cand find plenty of movies made by players in 2014 or 2015. PVP was the biggest selling point for ESO besides the game is made in ES Universe.
Just an example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfeMROJhXSY
In 2014 this was possible ..now is not.
I hope they will refresh the CP System soon tough.
Edited by Agalloch on February 13, 2020 1:33PM2 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Cyrodiil was the first map they built for the game. Matt Firor literally told Todd Howard that he would only head ZOS if he could make ESO a 3-way PvP game. That's what the game was all about at release, the 3-Banners-War. It's in the very logo.Anotherone773 wrote: »Looking at first years of ESO, I wouldn't say PvP is an afterthought. It actually supposed to be the main goal and selling point of the game. Moreover, 3 factions fighting each other in the central big area is what the ESO's predecessor Dark Ages of Camelot was about.
But in the end PvE started to bring more money, that's why ESO has turned into a PvE game with just a little attention to PvP.
There is nothing in this game or its advertising that gives the impression its a pvp game. In fact when i started playing in 2016? I actually googled "ESO PVP" to see if it had PVP and where it was. The entire premise of the game was that you were suppose to help your faction in the 3 banners war. That does not mean that it had to be a 3 way pvp match. The design of cyro gives the impression it was thrown together, or they let first week interns design it with no oversight( which would explain a lot tbh).
If anything, endgame PvE is an afterthought, as there weren't any trials or hardmodes at release.
I get it, Pvpers really want to believe this is a pvp game. It.is.not. Almost all of the content is PVE. Its not marketed as PVP game. It has never been marketed as a pvp game since i have been playing. and besides some minor tweaks PVP has not changed since Morrowind.
So someone somewhere might have said something along the lines of an ultimatum and got a token gesture from the people who recruited that person so that they would bring their MMORPG experience onboard and that company gave them a few token items to fulfill any contractual obligations but still focused primarily on PVE(number of PVE zones VS number of PVP zones at launch is what? 20 to 1 ratio?) Welcome to corporate america. Still.not.a.pvp.game. That is assuming that story is accurate and some PR to sooth over some disgruntled customers who still think a pvp game contains 95% PVE content.
If PVP sold...IF this was a PVP game, most of the content creation would focus on PVP. We would be getting new BGs every quarter instead of new dungeons. Zones would have pvp features. But whatever pvp focus this game might have had in the beginning its been gone for a long time and its not coming back.
PVP doesnt sell and you lost any chance of a PVP focused game as soon as subs became optional. PVEers are the ones who burn through content and require the end game goal post to be moved further and further with new chapers and DLCs. PVEers are the ones who buy cosmetics and housing and crown crates.
There are people on these very forums that complain about the fact they have to do any PVE and never want to leave Cyro. They dont go through new content very fast because players are new content, not dungeons, and trials, and zones.
PVP does not sell in a game like this. PVP only sells in sub games and P2W games and players made it clear they are on board with neither. Thus this is not a pvp game, it has never been a pvp game, and it will never be a pvp game. It is a pve game with token pvp no one cares about because it doesnt generate any revenue. Since all PVP content is free, PVEers actually pay to keep the PVP content in the game. The extra servers, electric, and labor to maintain it. And so far that PVP content seems to be plagued with headaches and unnecessary labor focused on it instead of the parts of the game that generate revenue.
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Brandathorbel✭✭✭✭✭for the most part, can you not get basically 100% of the pvp experience by just going out and buying the base game for $5 and never getting eso+ or spending a dime in the crown store?3
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mav1234✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »I get it, Pvpers really want to believe this is a pvp game. It.is.not. Almost all of the content is PVE. Its not marketed as PVP game. It has never been marketed as a pvp game since i have been playing. and besides some minor tweaks PVP has not changed since Morrowind.
pvp is a selling point of this game and it is why many of us picked it up and still play it. a huge pvp event just ended and you want to say that this isn't a "pvp game"? this is a mmorpg with both pvp and pve. it is neither a pvp nor a pve game. Because PvE players are bigger cash cows it makes sense to focus development on them though.
The reality is that mmo pvp does not require the constant developer time to implement new dungeons etc because players themselves create, refine, and change the experience as the meta changes. the introduction of new sets and classes vastly changes the pvp experience, as well.
cp is just as bad for pve as it is for pvp anyway. it trivializes content to a crazy level.for the most part, can you not get basically 100% of the pvp experience by just going out and buying the base game for $5 and never getting eso+ or spending a dime in the crown store?
a huge part of the 'pvp experience' in this game is the buildcraft etc, and that is not possible with that strategy.2 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭for the most part, can you not get basically 100% of the pvp experience by just going out and buying the base game for $5 and never getting eso+ or spending a dime in the crown store?
Absolutely not. Every time a new more powerful gear set comes out, either you need to grind the gold to buy it (very slow for a pure pvper) or play the content, and to play the content you need to sub or own it.
Jump into cyro with base game sets only, and tell me how that goes.Edited by Siohwenoeht on February 13, 2020 7:39PM"It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard0 -
Brandathorbel✭✭✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »for the most part, can you not get basically 100% of the pvp experience by just going out and buying the base game for $5 and never getting eso+ or spending a dime in the crown store?
Absolutely not. Every time a new more powerful gear set comes out, either you need to grind the gold to buy it (very slow for a pure pvper) or play the content, and to play the content you need to sub or own it.
Jump into cyro with base game sets only, and tell me how that goes.
but you only need to buy specific dlc or chapters that have worthwhile sets and you dont need eso+ or anything in crown store correct? its really just the sets?0 -
MisterBigglesworth✭✭✭✭✭
✭- Delete the current Champion constellation system
- Move some of the combat buffs into weapon, armor, and class passives, either modifying existing passives or adding new passives. Keep the overall number of skill points required the same as current
- Move the non-combat passives (i.e. Master Gatherer) to Professions unlocks
- For Class Passives ONLY - turn the system into a talent tree, unique to each class - similar to ability morphs, but containing multiple decision points
- Turn the Champion points themselves into an account-wide currency; the currency would continue to be accrued through gaining XP after Level 50. At roughly the same rate as now. With no upper limit
- Spending 1 Champion Point allows you to completely respec your character's Class Talents. Can also be done with gold just like now.
- Add a dual-spec system to the game. Toggling between specs is free, but must be done in a town or cyrodiil gate, out of combat
- Purchase a 3rd, 4th, and 5th spec by spending 10 Champion Points, 20 Champion Points, and 40 Champion Points, respectively
Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.1 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »for the most part, can you not get basically 100% of the pvp experience by just going out and buying the base game for $5 and never getting eso+ or spending a dime in the crown store?
Absolutely not. Every time a new more powerful gear set comes out, either you need to grind the gold to buy it (very slow for a pure pvper) or play the content, and to play the content you need to sub or own it.
Jump into cyro with base game sets only, and tell me how that goes.
but you only need to buy specific dlc or chapters that have worthwhile sets and you dont need eso+ or anything in crown store correct? its really just the sets?
If you want to be competitive or at the very least hold your own, yes you need dlc/chapter gear sets. The PVP only sets do not cut it on their own.
It's just the notion that pvpers only have to purchase the base game and nothing else that is incorrect. And if you'd been to cyro at all, you'd see all the fancy Apex/radiant Apex mounts, trial skins, crown store exclusive costumes etc.
It's a false assumption that pvpers don't support the game monetarily."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard3 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Skullstachio wrote: »If the Champion System were to be Reworked into something completely new, or scrapped in its entirety. How would one go about replacing it with something that all players can use.
In my opinion, I would rather see the champion point system reworked into something entirely new.
Such questions include:- How would you approach the system.
- How would one find a way to eliminate the power creep.
- How would it appeal to each playable class in both PvE and PvP.
Fix power creep stop nerfing us for every cp increase we gain now cp means something...0 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »what level would you say where CP starts to give very little return? about 600?
Level 1. Seriously it depends on the build. After about 30 points in something, diminishing returns really send you downhill. Past 50 and its nearly pointless.Looking at first years of ESO, I wouldn't say PvP is an afterthought. It actually supposed to be the main goal and selling point of the game. Moreover, 3 factions fighting each other in the central big area is what the ESO's predecessor Dark Ages of Camelot was about.
But in the end PvE started to bring more money, that's why ESO has turned into a PvE game with just a little attention to PvP.
There is nothing in this game or its advertising that gives the impression its a pvp game. In fact when i started playing in 2016? I actually googled "ESO PVP" to see if it had PVP and where it was. The entire premise of the game was that you were suppose to help your faction in the 3 banners war. That does not mean that it had to be a 3 way pvp match. The design of cyro gives the impression it was thrown together, or they let first week interns design it with no oversight( which would explain a lot tbh).
I dont totally disagree with you, though. I think they thought they need PVP in this game to survive because back when it was about time to be released we had Call of Duty and Game of War released. And Game of War was advertising hard on TV like like WoW use too. I think that spooked them because these games were taking a lot of players who were whaling on them. Phones were starting to become good with games, just like back in the early 90s when you owned a console if you wanted great gaming by the early 2000s computers had caught up and started to pass consoles as the go to gaming platform. Around 2010, mobile started to do the same thing as games got better and better.
Cyro failed to attract a lot of PVPers. It didnt have the cool battlegrounds of WoW, the scope or risk/reward system of EVE, and become came infamously known as Horse Simulator Online as you spent 5 minutes riding your horse to die in 5-10 seconds. It just isnt exciting pvp. The reason for pvping isnt exciting and it is the dullest looking zone in the game when in oblivion it was the beautiful lush zone. Cyro in ESO looks like belongs in a game made in 2005.
Next up IC. They actually made a PVP zone worse than Cyro. That was impressive. This zone use to be so hard to get too. It has gotten easier but the difficulty of getting there was only the first problem. This zone tries to mix PVP and PVE with a risk/reward system like EVE, but it actually ended up more like turning on PVP in Rift while out in a zone except no choice here.
The zone didnt appeal to many pvpers because trash mobs everywhere and PVPers like killing NPCs while pvping as PVEers like killing trash mobs when doing dungeons and trials. It is a pointless waste of energy. PVEers had to fight there way through mobs in a tiny zone in which they were likely to get ganked as soon as they started to engage an NPC. Then they lost half of the rewards they spend all that time earning. Then to pour acid in that wound, what you could purchase with the stones was an absolute joke. No thank you. IC was a huge fail. Strike two.
Attempt 3: Morrowind and battlegrounds. WoW had success with battlegrounds, maybe that was the secret. Except every battleground is the same with a few tweaks and reskins. Its like Im buying a car from Henry Ford. I can have any Model i want as long as it is a Model T and any color i want as long as that color is black. Lets chase each other around a big circle with very boring objectives that require little to no strategy! YAY!
Then they "improved" battlegrounds by adding slightly deformed ovals. Well definitely not going to steal GE's slogan of "Imagination at Work" with that one. BGs still lack the creative play and objectives of WOW BGs. If you were to use the matching system in real life it would match a pink party balloon with a car tire because you can fill both with air.
I think they realized they arent good at this PVP thing. But instead of throwing new poorly thought out ideas at us, they need to make what they have useable and interesting.
You should watch the advertising before ESO launch..also you cand find plenty of movies made by players in 2014 or 2015. PVP was the biggest selling point for ESO besides the game is made in ES Universe.
Just an example:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfeMROJhXSY
In 2014 this was possible ..now is not.
I hope they will refresh the CP System soon tough.
You mean THIS video? The one where it takes 6:47 of video before they even mention the word PVP? And PVP is talked about 30 seconds of an almost 10 min video?Yeah PVP was definitely a priority back in development and when pre-selling the game with hype. At best it shows a PVE game that has a PVP feature which is pretty much every MMO these days. Like i mentioned previously, when i first became interested in ESO, i had to actually research and do a good amount of digging to find out about PVP in ESO. Everything was about the story and lore and playing with friends and the environment. I was being sold a PVE game that was like " Oh yeah you can like kill other people and stuff too"
THIS is a pvp game in which the focus is PVP and it also as PVE stuff, But PVP is an ever present danger even in "safe" areas.
*The first part talks about the build up of player run alliances and colonization by those alliances.
* At 1:20 you see the player history, not the content history, of the game. You see news of invasions and fights. Headlines of battles. These are all driven by players not the developers.
In a PVP game, PVP IS the focus:
* The game can handle more than a few players in battle
* Gamespot posts videos about it.
* PCGamer writes articles about it.
* Business insider is writing articles about it testing cutting edge tech.
* CBS news( one of the major networks in the US) writes articles about it.
* BBC also writes about it
* Wikipedia entry on a battle in the game, not the game.
* World record PVP battles
THAT is a pvp game. This is PVE game with a PVP minigame. Don't get me wrong. The storyline is the best of any game ive ever played. The lore is awesome and attention to lore detail is great. The world is huge for this type of game( boots on the ground, with a lot of detailed objects). It is also one of the most stunning games to look at.
ESO has many great qualities, but they are all PVE. PVP in ESO is a minigame, an afterthought, a distraction. ESO is no more a PVP game than Wow. And thats fine. At least for me. But people need to stop pretending ESO is something it isnt and then getting upset when it disappoints them. PVP is a broken minigame that has no actual revenue stream and the PVP community is quite tiny compared to the PVE community in the game.
I love that world record setting space game. I have pvped in MMOs since the early 2000s mostly as my primary focus. I would love to have that ability in a game world like ESO but it is just not feasible. So i play ESO because i like the world and i accept PVE in this world because PVP in it makes me to sad to even take it semi seriously. SO ESO is my go to fix for this type of game world and Eve is where i go when i want to murder people and take all their stuff.Edited by Anotherone773 on February 13, 2020 8:34PM0 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »for the most part, can you not get basically 100% of the pvp experience by just going out and buying the base game for $5 and never getting eso+ or spending a dime in the crown store?
Absolutely not. Every time a new more powerful gear set comes out, either you need to grind the gold to buy it (very slow for a pure pvper) or play the content, and to play the content you need to sub or own it.
Jump into cyro with base game sets only, and tell me how that goes.
but you only need to buy specific dlc or chapters that have worthwhile sets and you dont need eso+ or anything in crown store correct? its really just the sets?
If you want to be competitive or at the very least hold your own, yes you need dlc/chapter gear sets. The PVP only sets do not cut it on their own.
It's just the notion that pvpers only have to purchase the base game and nothing else that is incorrect. And if you'd been to cyro at all, you'd see all the fancy Apex/radiant Apex mounts, trial skins, crown store exclusive costumes etc.
It's a false assumption that pvpers don't support the game monetarily.
PVP does not support the game. PVPers tend to spend less on a game like this. All that content you were talking about players purchasing content to get, all that is directed at PVE, PVP use is an unintended side effect. We can debate this forever but all evidence clearly points to "not a pvp game" and " pvp focused content does not generate any significant revenue" which makes it a minigame.0 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »for the most part, can you not get basically 100% of the pvp experience by just going out and buying the base game for $5 and never getting eso+ or spending a dime in the crown store?
Absolutely not. Every time a new more powerful gear set comes out, either you need to grind the gold to buy it (very slow for a pure pvper) or play the content, and to play the content you need to sub or own it.
Jump into cyro with base game sets only, and tell me how that goes.
but you only need to buy specific dlc or chapters that have worthwhile sets and you dont need eso+ or anything in crown store correct? its really just the sets?
If you want to be competitive or at the very least hold your own, yes you need dlc/chapter gear sets. The PVP only sets do not cut it on their own.
It's just the notion that pvpers only have to purchase the base game and nothing else that is incorrect. And if you'd been to cyro at all, you'd see all the fancy Apex/radiant Apex mounts, trial skins, crown store exclusive costumes etc.
It's a false assumption that pvpers don't support the game monetarily.
PVP does not support the game. PVPers tend to spend less on a game like this. All that content you were talking about players purchasing content to get, all that is directed at PVE, PVP use is an unintended side effect. We can debate this forever but all evidence clearly points to "not a pvp game" and " pvp focused content does not generate any significant revenue" which makes it a minigame.
I'm not saying this is a PVP focused game. I'm pointing out that even if a player focuses more on PVP, they are still playing PVE and paying for content to be competitive in PVP.
You cannot say that PVP players don't support the game monetarily."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard0 -
MrGhosty✭✭✭✭✭For a PvP game, speaking as a new player, the grand to 810 is an utter pain. The community looks down on any one not 810 and it turns off allot of new players. I'm stubborn so I stick around. And a real PvP game should not such a huge shelf to get to event footing. For the sake of the game this needs to change. I hope they lower the CP cap to 600 for combat. Remove the crafting and extra stuff in CP skill trees. After 600 have new skill trees unlock that deal with bonuses for crafting and other skills that have nothing to do with combat. Like in PvE areas let you walk on water. Just my two cents.
Then ZOS should be changing how quickly newer players are able to earn the CP to get to 810 then. They have full control of that.
They do already make it so the fewer CP you have, the faster they are earned but it's the last few hundred that take a lot of time.
Casual players will never reach 810CP and most burn out knowing they will never measure up in PvP no matter what gear they earn and thats not good for the game. Most MMOs have realized that allot of casual players are good gamers, often hard core MMOers who now have a life. Most MMOs let you get to cap faster so you can play the end game. Zen got this right with the leveling process but forgot about the rest of the game.
CP get in the way of joining the real community till you get 810CP. The rework needs to look at how to reward long time players but not drive off new gamers. Especially casuals.
I don't know what circles you run in, but I've never felt I didn't belong in the endgame and I still haven't reached cap. Once a player reaches cp 160 they're then at the point to collecting gear that will last them forever. At CP300 you notice the jump in power but after that point I have noticed improvement but it doesn't feel like a night/day type situation.
I do think that raising the cap would only hurt newer players though, and trivialize content for the long term players. What I would personally hope for is them to leave the cap as it is and provide a new outlet for those cp points to ensure long term players are rewarded for their dedication to the game. I think this could be done by having perks that don't impact gameplay but would be nice bonuses to have. The simple ones would be stuff like, x amount to gold/ap earned, not sure how you balance those so it doesn't blow out the economy.
Something else they could do would be to leave the cap as is, and then set an amount of cp points earned that players could use to get a lootbox, maybe crown crate mixed with some gear drops or something."It is a time of strife and unrest. Armies of revenants and dark spirits manifest in every corner of Tamriel. Winters grow colder and crops fail. Mystics are plagued by nightmares and portents of doom."1 -
mav1234✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »ESO has many great qualities, but they are all PVE. PVP in ESO is a minigame, an afterthought, a distraction. ESO is no more a PVP game than Wow.
how many MMORPGs have esport competitions for pvp which award actual cash prizes? I'll give you a hint, one of those you just compared to ESO.
ESO is not a "pure PvP game", but PvP is a major activity for many of its players.Edited by mav1234 on February 13, 2020 9:39PM0 -
mav1234✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »PVP does not support the game. PVPers tend to spend less on a game like this. All that content you were talking about players purchasing content to get, all that is directed at PVE, PVP use is an unintended side effect. We can debate this forever but all evidence clearly points to "not a pvp game" and " pvp focused content does not generate any significant revenue" which makes it a minigame.
you are quite wrong - pvp is an intended side effect of the gear introduced to the game. the skills in the game are balanced around both pvp and pve. pvpers buy content to get new gear for pvp. pvp is no more a "minigame" here than in other mmorpgs.
the great thing about pvp is it does not need much in the way of "new content" to be successful, because once the formula is in a good place, it takes care of itself. ESO could do with a bit more pvp love, but overall it has fun pvp.1 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
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FTFY. More people hang out at undaunted tents than are in a PVP campaign at any given time.Anotherone773 wrote: »ESO has many great qualities, but they are all PVE. PVP in ESO is a minigame, an afterthought, a distraction. ESO is no more a PVP game than Wow.
how many MMORPGs have esport competitions for pvp which award actual cash prizes? I'll give you a hint, one of those you just compared to ESO.
ESO is not a "pure PvP game", but PvP is a major activity for many a few of its players.
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Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
FTFY. More people hang out at undaunted tents than are in a PVP campaign at any given time.Anotherone773 wrote: »ESO has many great qualities, but they are all PVE. PVP in ESO is a minigame, an afterthought, a distraction. ESO is no more a PVP game than Wow.
how many MMORPGs have esport competitions for pvp which award actual cash prizes? I'll give you a hint, one of those you just compared to ESO.
ESO is not a "pure PvP game", but PvP is a major activity for many a few of its players.
Where'd that lol button go?
Campaign was pop locked for one side and two bars for the other two around 1:30pm today. I've never seen more than 30 at and undaunted tent lmao."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard2 -
oXI_Viper_IXo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »for the most part, can you not get basically 100% of the pvp experience by just going out and buying the base game for $5 and never getting eso+ or spending a dime in the crown store?
Absolutely not. Every time a new more powerful gear set comes out, either you need to grind the gold to buy it (very slow for a pure pvper) or play the content, and to play the content you need to sub or own it.
Jump into cyro with base game sets only, and tell me how that goes.
but you only need to buy specific dlc or chapters that have worthwhile sets and you dont need eso+ or anything in crown store correct? its really just the sets?
If you want to be competitive or at the very least hold your own, yes you need dlc/chapter gear sets. The PVP only sets do not cut it on their own.
It's just the notion that pvpers only have to purchase the base game and nothing else that is incorrect. And if you'd been to cyro at all, you'd see all the fancy Apex/radiant Apex mounts, trial skins, crown store exclusive costumes etc.
It's a false assumption that pvpers don't support the game monetarily.
PVP does not support the game. PVPers tend to spend less on a game like this. All that content you were talking about players purchasing content to get, all that is directed at PVE, PVP use is an unintended side effect. We can debate this forever but all evidence clearly points to "not a pvp game" and " pvp focused content does not generate any significant revenue" which makes it a minigame.Anotherone773 wrote: »
FTFY. More people hang out at undaunted tents than are in a PVP campaign at any given time.Anotherone773 wrote: »ESO has many great qualities, but they are all PVE. PVP in ESO is a minigame, an afterthought, a distraction. ESO is no more a PVP game than Wow.
how many MMORPGs have esport competitions for pvp which award actual cash prizes? I'll give you a hint, one of those you just compared to ESO.
ESO is not a "pure PvP game", but PvP is a major activity for many a few of its players.
Do you have any actual statistical evidence to back these claims up? I doubt it, perhaps you shouldn't speak in absolutes.
Pretty much everyone I PvP with is an ESO+ subscriber, has purchased crown crates, mounts, houses, costumes, personalities, and all manner of cosmetics. They also purchase every new chapter and update when they come out.
Please, tell me more about how PvP players don't monetarily support the game...Edited by oXI_Viper_IXo on February 13, 2020 10:36PM3 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »
FTFY. More people hang out at undaunted tents than are in a PVP campaign at any given time.Anotherone773 wrote: »ESO has many great qualities, but they are all PVE. PVP in ESO is a minigame, an afterthought, a distraction. ESO is no more a PVP game than Wow.
how many MMORPGs have esport competitions for pvp which award actual cash prizes? I'll give you a hint, one of those you just compared to ESO.
ESO is not a "pure PvP game", but PvP is a major activity for many a few of its players.
Where'd that lol button go?
Campaign was pop locked for one side and two bars for the other two around 1:30pm today. I've never seen more than 30 at and undaunted tent lmao.
That was not meant literally , but since you want to take it that way. I was talking about ALL of the undaunted tents and only alliance locked is populated right now on PC NA. and what is a full campaign is not very many people. The rest of the campaigns currently sit at 1 bar. Cyro is a pretty desolate place.0 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Skullstachio wrote: »If the Champion System were to be Reworked into something completely new, or scrapped in its entirety. How would one go about replacing it with something that all players can use.
In my opinion, I would rather see the champion point system reworked into something entirely new.
Such questions include:- How would you approach the system.
- How would one find a way to eliminate the power creep.
- How would it appeal to each playable class in both PvE and PvP.
I would prefer to see a layered system like EQ2 where you have class and role specific options and actives purchased through trees0 -
ArcVelarian✭✭✭✭✭The simplest thing to do at the moment would be to add CP "constellations" (mage, warrior, thief) and add stars to existing ones. That then begs the question of what those new things would even do. I know my initial thoughts are for the Guardian Constellations to offer further Role specialization, and even further specialization within those roles so players can go crazy with creative builds.
Murphy's Law of PvP : If it can be abused and or exploited, it will be abused and or exploited.1 -
Na0cho✭✭✭I play this game for pvp. I pve because I have to.
I am eso+ subscriber and have purchased all expansions and content in this game. As well as crown crates, cosmetic items, housing, furniture, etc, etc.
Game was originally touted as the spiritual successor to a beloved pvp game.
Speaking of beloved pvp games, I suppose uo wasn’t a pvp game either?
Or Everquest ?
A pvp game is a pvp game because (gasp) it has pvp.
Pvpers spend plenty of money.
To suggest otherwise is blatantly false.4