Champion Point discussion.

Nanfoodle

A problem with balance is the fact that CP give you an even distribution between the 3 different types of skill lines. So you end up with every one being tanky, able to heal or self heal well and dps once you get 810CP. I think Zen needs to make people specialize in one of the 3 and 2/3 of your CP need to be spent there. This would also solve the problem of tanks and healers not being needed as much when you run content with 4 chars that have 810CP. This is messing up this game in ways that is unnerving. This is a trinity game and many come here because of that fact. I myself came here because I love playing support classes like a healer.

BrokenGameMechanics

Nanfoodle wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Nanfoodle wrote: »

For a PvP game, speaking as a new player, the grand to 810 is an utter pain. The community looks down on any one not 810 and it turns off allot of new players. I'm stubborn so I stick around. And a real PvP game should not such a huge shelf to get to event footing. For the sake of the game this needs to change. I hope they lower the CP cap to 600 for combat. Remove the crafting and extra stuff in CP skill trees. After 600 have new skill trees unlock that deal with bonuses for crafting and other skills that have nothing to do with combat. Like in PvE areas let you walk on water. Just my two cents.

Then ZOS should be changing how quickly newer players are able to earn the CP to get to 810 then. They have full control of that.
They do already make it so the fewer CP you have, the faster they are earned but it's the last few hundred that take a lot of time.

Casual players will never reach 810CP and most burn out knowing they will never measure up in PvP no matter what gear they earn and thats not good for the game. Most MMOs have realized that allot of casual players are good gamers, often hard core MMOers who now have a life. Most MMOs let you get to cap faster so you can play the end game. Zen got this right with the leveling process but forgot about the rest of the game.

CP get in the way of joining the real community till you get 810CP. The rework needs to look at how to reward long time players but not drive off new gamers. Especially casuals.

There is far far less "gap" between 810 and and lower CP levels if you look at the actual formulas and math. Early CP is boosted, resource gain etc, and later CP very minimal. Of course people being people tend to believe that the loss can only be attributed to the CP difference otherwise no way that player that has years more experience could ever beat me.

But again people being people will blame it on the CP and I agree will become dispirited. If is far more that 810s have just played way more PVP, are very experienced, and have fine tuned their play and builds over year(s) and far less that few hundred CP difference. CP matters but far less then most understand.

But the current CP system has dead ended. I'm as curious as anyone what they do from here. It could literally make or unmake the game if they get it right or get it wrong. That is why I think they are in no rush and have been totally closed on the topic.

reddog1948

ZOS is continually nerfing skills in the goal of PvP "Balance of Power", hence most of my toons are noticeably weaker (lower DPS and lower health) then they were a few years ago. Yet every new dungeon has stronger and stronger NPCs. The ability to play is slowly growing harder and harder.
The CP system did offer the opportunity to slowly grow stronger over time and keep some hope of keeping up with ZOS penchant for introducing harder and harder content.
Strength crepe is a normal part of life - to effectively freeze the toons and continually increase the hit points of the NPCs is more than slightly discouraging.
WOW resolved this problem by offering easy grouping on all higher-level content equivalent of Trials. ZOS's PUG for 4 man dungeons is clearly a step forward from where the game was a few years ago, but it needs to include Trials. Not all of us are into Guild membership just to play higher level content.
With having all of my toons maxed out CP/Armor there is no real drive to just grinding for the sake of grinding.
I also am in real doubt of ordering Greymore DLC and have been looking for a different MMOG - maybe going back to WOW if nothing else.

ghastley

The problem for ZOS is that the veteran players demand a system that preserves their advantage over the newcomers, and the new players demand a way to catch up.

The only way to achieve anything in that situation is to de-couple level from experience, so that the player's actual ability to use the game's resources is measured, not the amount of them that they've collected. To some extent, the CP cap has achieved some of that, by making people re-arrange a finite resource to find a maximum, but it's only part of the story.

Sine they also want to introduce new sets, new skills, etc. with the new content, that new stuff has to offer advantages over the existing, which also leads to power creep. And since that stuff is available to the new players, the veterans complain about that, too. The CP-replacement solution has to consider that, too.

Nanfoodle

reddog1948 wrote: »

ZOS is continually nerfing skills in the goal of PvP "Balance of Power", hence most of my toons are noticeably weaker (lower DPS and lower health) then they were a few years ago. Yet every new dungeon has stronger and stronger NPCs. The ability to play is slowly growing harder and harder.
The CP system did offer the opportunity to slowly grow stronger over time and keep some hope of keeping up with ZOS penchant for introducing harder and harder content.
Strength crepe is a normal part of life - to effectively freeze the toons and continually increase the hit points of the NPCs is more than slightly discouraging.
WOW resolved this problem by offering easy grouping on all higher-level content equivalent of Trials. ZOS's PUG for 4 man dungeons is clearly a step forward from where the game was a few years ago, but it needs to include Trials. Not all of us are into Guild membership just to play higher level content.
With having all of my toons maxed out CP/Armor there is no real drive to just grinding for the sake of grinding.
I also am in real doubt of ordering Greymore DLC and have been looking for a different MMOG - maybe going back to WOW if nothing else.

Been MMOing for over 20 years and people keep talking about minor % on passives past 400 skill points but the fact is, 2% here and 3% here really starts to add up. You cap crit resists with gear and CP. You do the same with crit and penitration. You can't do that with gear and 400-600CP. Long time players have been playing with max CP for so long I don't think they know the difference. As for skill and tweeking builds. I don't think you need CP810 to have that. Real PvP games need to even they playing field with a short curve. Or change how CP works, making CP that effects CP be under that curve and make the rest of CP be about none combat related advancements.

Agenericname

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

xbobx15 wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

xbobx15 wrote: »

for the most part, can you not get basically 100% of the pvp experience by just going out and buying the base game for $5 and never getting eso+ or spending a dime in the crown store?

Absolutely not. Every time a new more powerful gear set comes out, either you need to grind the gold to buy it (very slow for a pure pvper) or play the content, and to play the content you need to sub or own it.

Jump into cyro with base game sets only, and tell me how that goes.

but you only need to buy specific dlc or chapters that have worthwhile sets and you dont need eso+ or anything in crown store correct? its really just the sets?

If you want to be competitive or at the very least hold your own, yes you need dlc/chapter gear sets. The PVP only sets do not cut it on their own.

It's just the notion that pvpers only have to purchase the base game and nothing else that is incorrect. And if you'd been to cyro at all, you'd see all the fancy Apex/radiant Apex mounts, trial skins, crown store exclusive costumes etc.

It's a false assumption that pvpers don't support the game monetarily.

PVP does not support the game. PVPers tend to spend less on a game like this. All that content you were talking about players purchasing content to get, all that is directed at PVE, PVP use is an unintended side effect. We can debate this forever but all evidence clearly points to "not a pvp game" and " pvp focused content does not generate any significant revenue" which makes it a minigame.

Source?

It doesn't have to be a pvp game and it doesnt have to appeal to the majority of the players base. It simply needs to be the best thing for the bottom line or best long term.

Without PvP I would leave this game. Without some of the PvE content I would find another game. I don't have to spend all of my time in Cyrodiil, IC, or BGs in order for it to add enough worth to the game to keep me playing, and I spend money.

The assumption, or dichotomy, that PvEers and PvPers are neatly divided into 2 distinct categories is false. No doubt some are, however, there was a thread recently (3-4 months ago) in which the OP asked how many partook in PvP by different types. The highest category was of course none, however, the second highest was both PvE and PvP. Even the OP admitted that the results favored PvP much more than they had thought. It was close. Of course a forum poll, so it has a margin of error about the size of Texas.

Any game that has PvP and PvP will nearly always spend more on PvE content. PvP changes itself as the players skill levels rise and adapt while PvE will eventually stagnate without adding new content. In PvP you are the content.

As for CP themselves, I don't really care, but they should be decisive and no more of this "let's buff dots, no lets not." I play new characters without CP or crafted gear. Overland isn't challenging and changes to CP will not help or hurt people who have acquired enough knowledge and practice in this game to achieve a certain level of damage and damage avoidance, but if it's good for the game long term, fine.

Anotherone773

Agenericname wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

xbobx15 wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

xbobx15 wrote: »

for the most part, can you not get basically 100% of the pvp experience by just going out and buying the base game for $5 and never getting eso+ or spending a dime in the crown store?

Absolutely not. Every time a new more powerful gear set comes out, either you need to grind the gold to buy it (very slow for a pure pvper) or play the content, and to play the content you need to sub or own it.

Jump into cyro with base game sets only, and tell me how that goes.

but you only need to buy specific dlc or chapters that have worthwhile sets and you dont need eso+ or anything in crown store correct? its really just the sets?

If you want to be competitive or at the very least hold your own, yes you need dlc/chapter gear sets. The PVP only sets do not cut it on their own.

It's just the notion that pvpers only have to purchase the base game and nothing else that is incorrect. And if you'd been to cyro at all, you'd see all the fancy Apex/radiant Apex mounts, trial skins, crown store exclusive costumes etc.

It's a false assumption that pvpers don't support the game monetarily.

PVP does not support the game. PVPers tend to spend less on a game like this. All that content you were talking about players purchasing content to get, all that is directed at PVE, PVP use is an unintended side effect. We can debate this forever but all evidence clearly points to "not a pvp game" and " pvp focused content does not generate any significant revenue" which makes it a minigame.

Source?

It doesn't have to be a pvp game and it doesnt have to appeal to the majority of the players base. It simply needs to be the best thing for the bottom line or best long term.

Without PvP I would leave this game. Without some of the PvE content I would find another game. I don't have to spend all of my time in Cyrodiil, IC, or BGs in order for it to add enough worth to the game to keep me playing, and I spend money.

The assumption, or dichotomy, that PvEers and PvPers are neatly divided into 2 distinct categories is false. No doubt some are, however, there was a thread recently (3-4 months ago) in which the OP asked how many partook in PvP by different types. The highest category was of course none, however, the second highest was both PvE and PvP. Even the OP admitted that the results favored PvP much more than they had thought. It was close. Of course a forum poll, so it has a margin of error about the size of Texas.

Any game that has PvP and PvP will nearly always spend more on PvE content. PvP changes itself as the players skill levels rise and adapt while PvE will eventually stagnate without adding new content. In PvP you are the content.

As for CP themselves, I don't really care, but they should be decisive and no more of this "let's buff dots, no lets not." I play new characters without CP or crafted gear. Overland isn't challenging and changes to CP will not help or hurt people who have acquired enough knowledge and practice in this game to achieve a certain level of damage and damage avoidance, but if it's good for the game long term, fine.

My source is... common knowledge? Experience? Observations?

I dont really disagree with anything you said. I was speaking more of PVP itself and pvpers tend to spend less on games like this because the content is designed for PVEers. PVE sells, PVP doesnt. Been that way since the first MMO.

Muizer

Well just a thought, but if 'power creep' is an issue, then how about a system where instead of gaining points on top of a 0 point base line, to be distributed at will, you start out with a number of points in each of the buff categories and you can spend CP by moving points from one category to another. So a new player would be equally buffed in all categories and as you progress you get to customize your character by strengthening some at the expense of others. It would never completely account for people gathering insane amounts of CP, but it would extend the lifespan of what we currently have for sure.

Skullstachio

Definitely a good fair bit of discussion here.

Muizer wrote: »

Well just a thought, but if 'power creep' is an issue, then how about a system where instead of gaining points on top of a 0 point base line, to be distributed at will, you start out with a number of points in each of the buff categories and you can spend CP by moving points from one category to another. So a new player would be equally buffed in all categories and as you progress you get to customize your character by strengthening some at the expense of others. It would never completely account for people gathering insane amounts of CP, but it would extend the lifespan of what we currently have for sure.

Hybridability seems to be a partial must have from what I see.

Nordic__Knights

Muizer wrote: »

Well just a thought, but if 'power creep' is an issue, then how about a system where instead of gaining points on top of a 0 point base line, to be distributed at will, you start out with a number of points in each of the buff categories and you can spend CP by moving points from one category to another. So a new player would be equally buffed in all categories and as you progress you get to customize your character by strengthening some at the expense of others. It would never completely account for people gathering insane amounts of CP, but it would extend the lifespan of what we currently have for sure.

So you say to start us out at max 3600cp then as we gain we can move them around? Lmfao why would you ever need to move them as everything would be FULL already your system aint well thought on i see

MythrialDrow

Just give us some sort of information please ZOS . I have 1400cp. There is no progression , I got bored. Log in do my daily craft log out!

Nordic__Knights

MythrialDrow wrote: »

Just give us some sort of information please ZOS . I have 1400cp. There is no progression , I got bored. Log in do my daily craft log out!

Im an release day player on ps4 with same cp as you on main tho i also have many other sub accounts some capped some not so and know what your saying 1 reason im starting over on PC here in an few weeks ( once pc is built) for an chance in environment as ps4 has gotton old when playing hopefully add-ons and new people to meet will bring back some enjoyment to eso if not then idk might have to find something else to do with retirement

RD065

MythrialDrow wrote: »

Just give us some sort of information please ZOS . I have 1400cp. There is no progression , I got bored. Log in do my daily craft log out!

Playing off and on since launch, 0 CP. My question is, and I really don't know, what MMO has infinite progression? Outside you might get 10 new levels that take a day to complete. Curious. Thank you.

Onigar

One point anyone who has an idea to replace or modify the existing system must for sure is to not get hung up on the current CP810 cap which is just an arbitrary end value due to internal decisions within ZOS.

The Champion Point System is based on 3600 points. The number we can currently allocate per character in the game is 810.

I can imagine the ZOS sales model is based on attracting new players and this is 100% correct. This game (any game) needs new players all the time. I believe such a strategy influenced the decision to cap the allocatable CP to 810 so there was not such a disparity in an early character versus a "veteran" character as far as overall stats.

However this leaves the veteran characters with gear choice as the only advancement method.

I have another idea involving CP and that is to allow an individual setting per character for game hardness. There is already a scaling mechanism in place throughout Tamriel based on the character level. I suggest to add a further scaling based in CP level too.

Lets take the 4 improvement (quality) levels, White, Green, Blue, Purple, Gold.

For each of these 4 levels you would need to assign a different number of CP and there would need to be multiple CP assignment selection windows, one for each of the CP quality levels and also allowing for a different CP strategy at each quality level should you so choose.

For example White level could be CP 810, Gold level could be CP 3600 which would mean CP gain above CP 810 is again interesting for players.

The higher the CP quality level then the harder the content could be scaled but also the rewards from a successful achievement could also be correspondingly higher. The choice for CP quality level would need to be character selectable and modifiable.

For ZOS to manage the in-game character balancing they could set a cap on the CP quality level allowed for certain activities. This is not so much different that taking a character into a non-CP campaign except in this case the CP would be restricted to a ZOS set quality value.

The existing champion Point system works fine and this is perhaps the reason why there has been no quick replacement.

Anyway, I think you get my idea

Nordic__Knights

Onigar wrote: »

One point anyone who has an idea to replace or modify the existing system must for sure is to not get hung up on the current CP810 cap which is just an arbitrary end value due to internal decisions within ZOS.

The Champion Point System is based on 3600 points. The number we can currently allocate per character in the game is 810.

I can imagine the ZOS sales model is based on attracting new players and this is 100% correct. This game (any game) needs new players all the time. I believe such a strategy influenced the decision to cap the allocatable CP to 810 so there was not such a disparity in an early character versus a "veteran" character as far as overall stats.

However this leaves the veteran characters with gear choice as the only advancement method.

I have another idea involving CP and that is to allow an individual setting per character for game hardness. There is already a scaling mechanism in place throughout Tamriel based on the character level. I suggest to add a further scaling based in CP level too.

Lets take the 4 improvement (quality) levels, White, Green, Blue, Purple, Gold.

For each of these 4 levels you would need to assign a different number of CP and there would need to be multiple CP assignment selection windows allowing for a different CP strategy at each level should you so choose.

For example White level could be CP 810, Gold level could be CP 3600 which would mean CP gain above CP 810 is again interesting for players.

The higher the CP quality level then the harder the content could be scaled but also the rewards from a successful achievement could also be correspondingly higher. The choice for CP quality level would need to be character selectable and modifiable.

For ZOS to manage the in-game character balancing they could set a cap on the CP quality level allowed for certain activities. This is not so much different that taking a character into a non-CP campaign except in this case the CP would be restricted to a ZOS set quality value.

The existing champion Point system works fine and this is perhaps the reason why there has been no quick replacement.

Anyway, I think you get my idea

I get what your saying and it sounds cool but instead of changing the cp tree around maybe do like they have with gear stars and set up different lvls per X amount of cp used the more stars active the HARDER the content becomes and they could make trials and dungeons work off it for the future as well as GF for pug dungeons that help balance groups to as low star players would work together and high star players ext. It would also help in improving players game too as the fighting would stop about having low cp players mixed with high cp players when doing dungeons

Wifeaggro13

Eso pidgeon holed itself with it design theories. Flat progression ? For that they would need several other classes and many more skill lines . 6 years on if your a long term player there would be literally nothing to do . Chapters are just lvling content with no levels. The only thing that progresses is the magic dart board meta through the incessant nerf cycle of homogenized class patches

ExistingRug61

From what I can tell from my experiences and the multitude of comments, the perceived issues that exist with CP are as follows:
1) It’s potentially a barrier to new players reaching endgame. Currently, this is somewhat alleviated by front-loaded effects on CP.
2) Is a potential contributor to power creep. This has pros and cons
a. It gives a sense of vertical progression that many players desire
b. It potentially trivialises overland, quest and older content
3) Due to the forced distribution between the trees, it causes all players to be strong in all areas (damage/sustain/mitigation). The front loaded nature of CP actually contributes to this as it promotes spreading points as opposed to specialising in just one area.
4) Actual implementation of how incremental CP work is not clear, as you need to understand the jump points to get maximum benefit.
5) Potentially contribute to server load due to increased number of calculations, effecting performance
Any changes to CP should hopefully aim to address the above.

Additionally, if there is a change to the CP system the following needs to be considered:
6) Players are rewarded for the CP they currently have.
7) The current power level of players is approximately maintained, so players are still able to clear the same content they already are with not much difference

Considering the above, one system I had thought of that attempts to address most of these is the following (sorry, long post)

a) Instead of having three trees that are focused on damage/healing, sustain and defense, have three trees focused on the three main components of the game, being
Tree 1: Overland & Questing
This tree would give utility effects which are useful to exploration and general play. As such there would be no vertical progression/power creep from this tree. Effects only apply when not in a dungeon/trial/arena or a PvP zone.
Example effects include: Gold/Treasure drop increase, mat drop increase, reduced detection radius, increased sneak speed, increased movement speed out of combat, increased inspiration.
Tree 2: Dungeons, Trials & Arenas
This tree would include effects similar to the existing CP system, but simplified down into less stars. The effect of this tree would apply while in dungeons/trials/arenas only. (similar to slayer etc). This would mean there is still a vertical progression system, but it only affects player performance in dungeons and trials. These effects would need to be balanced so they give a similar potential to what is currently available.
Tree 3: PvP
This tree would include effects that do not directly affect general character power, but rather affect PvP objectives. Ideally there would be effects that cover all types of PvP (Cyrodiil, IC and Battlegrounds). It would only be in effect while in a PvP area.
Example effects include: Increase siege damage to keeps, decreased forward camp respawn time, small combat buffs while on/performing objectives (ie: on flags, carrying scroll/relic/chaosball), increased AP gain, decreased telvar loss on death, reduced resurrect time.
Possible additional 4th tree: Specilisation
Have a fourth tree which allows character specialisation. This could contain direct combat benefits or specific skill changes, but these would be specific and generally come with a trade-off, so they allow a character to specialise but hopefully not contribute to power creep too much. These bonuses would apply in all game modes.
Examples: could be numerical bonuses such as Increased Flame damage but deceased Frost Resist, or changes to skills.
Rationale:

Attempt to address the negative effects of power creep from CP on overland and questing, while still allowing it to be present as a vertical progression system for endgame PvE. Also removes the enforced split between damage/sustain/mitigation present in the current system. Finally, having the trees be specific to certain content also means that only a subset of CP is ever active at once, hopefully reducing server load.
One downside is there may be some adjustment to some of the more recent world bosses and difficult overland encounters as you would no longer have a combat CP benefit.
Side benefits: Having separate Dungeon/Trial/Arena and PvP CP effects gives an indirect way of balancing endgame PvE and PvP separately. Also means once at max CP you wouldn’t have to respect CP to change a character between PvE and PvP as the tress are independent.

b) Instead of getting equally gaining CP for each tree, you simply gain CP and can spend it in whichever tree you like. However, each tree would have a cap (which can increase each update).
Rationale:

This means it becomes much faster for a new player to max out the game type they are focused on as they could simply put all their initial CP into just that tree, while still giving something to progress as they continue to gain CP.

c) Instead of the stars gaining fractions of a percent for each point spent and then passive unlocks after spending certain amounts like we do currently, change it so that you simply either unlock a whole percent or a passive for a variable cost. Ie: Damage done in the Dungeons/Trials tree might be 3CP for the first 1%.
Rationale:

Makes the system clearer and remove the opaqueness of jump points. Additionally, this would also mean that there can be larger one-off effects included for higher CP cost, as well as the incremental ones. Can still have a system of diminishing returns for the incrmental ones by having an increasing cost for each %

d) If required, the effects in each tree could be conditional on or mutually exclusive with other effects in that tree.

e) Optionally, remove the 20% stat bonus from CP and instead redirect that into gear, enchants etc.
Rationale:

This way you will get the stats you build for, instead of just a generic buff to all of them.

f) Players current CP total could be maintained when changing to this system.
Rationale:

No loss of effort already put in by players

Nordic__Knights

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

From what I can tell from my experiences and the multitude of comments, the perceived issues that exist with CP are as follows:
1) It’s potentially a barrier to new players reaching endgame. Currently, this is somewhat alleviated by front-loaded effects on CP.
2) Is a potential contributor to power creep. This has pros and cons
a. It gives a sense of vertical progression that many players desire
b. It potentially trivialises overland, quest and older content
3) Due to the forced distribution between the trees, it causes all players to be strong in all areas (damage/sustain/mitigation). The front loaded nature of CP actually contributes to this as it promotes spreading points as opposed to specialising in just one area.
4) Actual implementation of how incremental CP work is not clear, as you need to understand the jump points to get maximum benefit.
5) Potentially contribute to server load due to increased number of calculations, effecting performance
Any changes to CP should hopefully aim to address the above.

Additionally, if there is a change to the CP system the following needs to be considered:
6) Players are rewarded for the CP they currently have.
7) The current power level of players is approximately maintained, so players are still able to clear the same content they already are with not much difference

Considering the above, one system I had thought of that attempts to address most of these is the following (sorry, long post)

a) Instead of having three trees that are focused on damage/healing, sustain and defense, have three trees focused on the three main components of the game, being
Tree 1: Overland & Questing
This tree would give utility effects which are useful to exploration and general play. As such there would be no vertical progression/power creep from this tree. Effects only apply when not in a dungeon/trial/arena or a PvP zone.
Example effects include: Gold/Treasure drop increase, mat drop increase, reduced detection radius, increased sneak speed, increased movement speed out of combat, increased inspiration.
Tree 2: Dungeons, Trials & Arenas
This tree would include effects similar to the existing CP system, but simplified down into less stars. The effect of this tree would apply while in dungeons/trials/arenas only. (similar to slayer etc). This would mean there is still a vertical progression system, but it only affects player performance in dungeons and trials. These effects would need to be balanced so they give a similar potential to what is currently available.
Tree 3: PvP
This tree would include effects that do not directly affect general character power, but rather affect PvP objectives. Ideally there would be effects that cover all types of PvP (Cyrodiil, IC and Battlegrounds). It would only be in effect while in a PvP area.
Example effects include: Increase siege damage to keeps, decreased forward camp respawn time, small combat buffs while on/performing objectives (ie: on flags, carrying scroll/relic/chaosball), increased AP gain, decreased telvar loss on death, reduced resurrect time.
Possible additional 4th tree: Specilisation
Have a fourth tree which allows character specialisation. This could contain direct combat benefits or specific skill changes, but these would be specific and generally come with a trade-off, so they allow a character to specialise but hopefully not contribute to power creep too much. These bonuses would apply in all game modes.
Examples: could be numerical bonuses such as Increased Flame damage but deceased Frost Resist, or changes to skills.
Rationale:

Attempt to address the negative effects of power creep from CP on overland and questing, while still allowing it to be present as a vertical progression system for endgame PvE. Also removes the enforced split between damage/sustain/mitigation present in the current system. Finally, having the trees be specific to certain content also means that only a subset of CP is ever active at once, hopefully reducing server load.
One downside is there may be some adjustment to some of the more recent world bosses and difficult overland encounters as you would no longer have a combat CP benefit.
Side benefits: Having separate Dungeon/Trial/Arena and PvP CP effects gives an indirect way of balancing endgame PvE and PvP separately. Also means once at max CP you wouldn’t have to respect CP to change a character between PvE and PvP as the tress are independent.

b) Instead of getting equally gaining CP for each tree, you simply gain CP and can spend it in whichever tree you like. However, each tree would have a cap (which can increase each update).
Rationale:

This means it becomes much faster for a new player to max out the game type they are focused on as they could simply put all their initial CP into just that tree, while still giving something to progress as they continue to gain CP.

c) Instead of the stars gaining fractions of a percent for each point spent and then passive unlocks after spending certain amounts like we do currently, change it so that you simply either unlock a whole percent or a passive for a variable cost. Ie: Damage done in the Dungeons/Trials tree might be 3CP for the first 1%.
Rationale:

Makes the system clearer and remove the opaqueness of jump points. Additionally, this would also mean that there can be larger one-off effects included for higher CP cost, as well as the incremental ones. Can still have a system of diminishing returns for the incrmental ones by having an increasing cost for each %

d) If required, the effects in each tree could be conditional on or mutually exclusive with other effects in that tree.

e) Optionally, remove the 20% stat bonus from CP and instead redirect that into gear, enchants etc.
Rationale:

This way you will get the stats you build for, instead of just a generic buff to all of them.

f) Players current CP total could be maintained when changing to this system.
Rationale:

No loss of effort already put in by players

Looks and sounds ok only thing i see is that with your overland and i'll call it "dungeon" tree some of the things gold, chest , and loot come from both areas and would need to be on par with each other or it would feel like 2/3 of your cp was useless while in these area's or youd have to re do cp often just to change area's of play not fun nor cheap

ExistingRug61

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

From what I can tell from my experiences and the multitude of comments, the perceived issues that exist with CP are as follows:
1) It’s potentially a barrier to new players reaching endgame. Currently, this is somewhat alleviated by front-loaded effects on CP.
2) Is a potential contributor to power creep. This has pros and cons
a. It gives a sense of vertical progression that many players desire
b. It potentially trivialises overland, quest and older content
3) Due to the forced distribution between the trees, it causes all players to be strong in all areas (damage/sustain/mitigation). The front loaded nature of CP actually contributes to this as it promotes spreading points as opposed to specialising in just one area.
4) Actual implementation of how incremental CP work is not clear, as you need to understand the jump points to get maximum benefit.
5) Potentially contribute to server load due to increased number of calculations, effecting performance
Any changes to CP should hopefully aim to address the above.

Additionally, if there is a change to the CP system the following needs to be considered:
6) Players are rewarded for the CP they currently have.
7) The current power level of players is approximately maintained, so players are still able to clear the same content they already are with not much difference

Considering the above, one system I had thought of that attempts to address most of these is the following (sorry, long post)

a) Instead of having three trees that are focused on damage/healing, sustain and defense, have three trees focused on the three main components of the game, being
Tree 1: Overland & Questing
This tree would give utility effects which are useful to exploration and general play. As such there would be no vertical progression/power creep from this tree. Effects only apply when not in a dungeon/trial/arena or a PvP zone.
Example effects include: Gold/Treasure drop increase, mat drop increase, reduced detection radius, increased sneak speed, increased movement speed out of combat, increased inspiration.
Tree 2: Dungeons, Trials & Arenas
This tree would include effects similar to the existing CP system, but simplified down into less stars. The effect of this tree would apply while in dungeons/trials/arenas only. (similar to slayer etc). This would mean there is still a vertical progression system, but it only affects player performance in dungeons and trials. These effects would need to be balanced so they give a similar potential to what is currently available.
Tree 3: PvP
This tree would include effects that do not directly affect general character power, but rather affect PvP objectives. Ideally there would be effects that cover all types of PvP (Cyrodiil, IC and Battlegrounds). It would only be in effect while in a PvP area.
Example effects include: Increase siege damage to keeps, decreased forward camp respawn time, small combat buffs while on/performing objectives (ie: on flags, carrying scroll/relic/chaosball), increased AP gain, decreased telvar loss on death, reduced resurrect time.
Possible additional 4th tree: Specilisation
Have a fourth tree which allows character specialisation. This could contain direct combat benefits or specific skill changes, but these would be specific and generally come with a trade-off, so they allow a character to specialise but hopefully not contribute to power creep too much. These bonuses would apply in all game modes.
Examples: could be numerical bonuses such as Increased Flame damage but deceased Frost Resist, or changes to skills.
Rationale:

Attempt to address the negative effects of power creep from CP on overland and questing, while still allowing it to be present as a vertical progression system for endgame PvE. Also removes the enforced split between damage/sustain/mitigation present in the current system. Finally, having the trees be specific to certain content also means that only a subset of CP is ever active at once, hopefully reducing server load.
One downside is there may be some adjustment to some of the more recent world bosses and difficult overland encounters as you would no longer have a combat CP benefit.
Side benefits: Having separate Dungeon/Trial/Arena and PvP CP effects gives an indirect way of balancing endgame PvE and PvP separately. Also means once at max CP you wouldn’t have to respect CP to change a character between PvE and PvP as the tress are independent.

b) Instead of getting equally gaining CP for each tree, you simply gain CP and can spend it in whichever tree you like. However, each tree would have a cap (which can increase each update).
Rationale:

This means it becomes much faster for a new player to max out the game type they are focused on as they could simply put all their initial CP into just that tree, while still giving something to progress as they continue to gain CP.

c) Instead of the stars gaining fractions of a percent for each point spent and then passive unlocks after spending certain amounts like we do currently, change it so that you simply either unlock a whole percent or a passive for a variable cost. Ie: Damage done in the Dungeons/Trials tree might be 3CP for the first 1%.
Rationale:

Makes the system clearer and remove the opaqueness of jump points. Additionally, this would also mean that there can be larger one-off effects included for higher CP cost, as well as the incremental ones. Can still have a system of diminishing returns for the incrmental ones by having an increasing cost for each %

d) If required, the effects in each tree could be conditional on or mutually exclusive with other effects in that tree.

e) Optionally, remove the 20% stat bonus from CP and instead redirect that into gear, enchants etc.
Rationale:

This way you will get the stats you build for, instead of just a generic buff to all of them.

f) Players current CP total could be maintained when changing to this system.
Rationale:

No loss of effort already put in by players

Looks and sounds ok only thing i see is that with your overland and i'll call it "dungeon" tree some of the things gold, chest , and loot come from both areas and would need to be on par with each other or it would feel like 2/3 of your cp was useless while in these area's or youd have to re do cp often just to change area's of play not fun nor cheap

With this idea, you shouldn't have to change CP that often, as there would be a CP max per tree. For example max if the max is 250 per tree once you have 750 CP total you will have 250 in each tree at all times. There wouldn't be any point to respec CP when you swap from doing overland to dungeons as at that point can't take points from the overland to move to the dungeon tree as they would both already have the max allowable 250 CP in them. You would only need to respec CP if you wanted to rearrange within a tree.

However you are right depending on which zone you are in only one tree may be active so some may feel "wasted" depending on what content you do with that character (although ideally, this system would hopefully encourage characters to be used for more than one type of content as you wouldn't need to respec CP when changing content types as previously described). However this was the compromise to allow new players to reach max CP effectiveness in one type of content quicker. For example if the max per tree was 250, then that would allow a CP250 player to have as much power in the "dungeon" tree as a CP750 player would if the the CP250 simply put all 250 points into the dungeon tree and none elsewhere. This would allow them to much quicker be ready for that specific content on that character, but they would just be lacking in the other areas such as the overland utility, until they get more CP.

But there is probably no reason why the overland tree couldn't always apply to all content, I just originally thought of it as the three distinct components for simplicity.

Nordic__Knights

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

From what I can tell from my experiences and the multitude of comments, the perceived issues that exist with CP are as follows:
1) It’s potentially a barrier to new players reaching endgame. Currently, this is somewhat alleviated by front-loaded effects on CP.
2) Is a potential contributor to power creep. This has pros and cons
a. It gives a sense of vertical progression that many players desire
b. It potentially trivialises overland, quest and older content
3) Due to the forced distribution between the trees, it causes all players to be strong in all areas (damage/sustain/mitigation). The front loaded nature of CP actually contributes to this as it promotes spreading points as opposed to specialising in just one area.
4) Actual implementation of how incremental CP work is not clear, as you need to understand the jump points to get maximum benefit.
5) Potentially contribute to server load due to increased number of calculations, effecting performance
Any changes to CP should hopefully aim to address the above.

Additionally, if there is a change to the CP system the following needs to be considered:
6) Players are rewarded for the CP they currently have.
7) The current power level of players is approximately maintained, so players are still able to clear the same content they already are with not much difference

Considering the above, one system I had thought of that attempts to address most of these is the following (sorry, long post)

a) Instead of having three trees that are focused on damage/healing, sustain and defense, have three trees focused on the three main components of the game, being
Tree 1: Overland & Questing
This tree would give utility effects which are useful to exploration and general play. As such there would be no vertical progression/power creep from this tree. Effects only apply when not in a dungeon/trial/arena or a PvP zone.
Example effects include: Gold/Treasure drop increase, mat drop increase, reduced detection radius, increased sneak speed, increased movement speed out of combat, increased inspiration.
Tree 2: Dungeons, Trials & Arenas
This tree would include effects similar to the existing CP system, but simplified down into less stars. The effect of this tree would apply while in dungeons/trials/arenas only. (similar to slayer etc). This would mean there is still a vertical progression system, but it only affects player performance in dungeons and trials. These effects would need to be balanced so they give a similar potential to what is currently available.
Tree 3: PvP
This tree would include effects that do not directly affect general character power, but rather affect PvP objectives. Ideally there would be effects that cover all types of PvP (Cyrodiil, IC and Battlegrounds). It would only be in effect while in a PvP area.
Example effects include: Increase siege damage to keeps, decreased forward camp respawn time, small combat buffs while on/performing objectives (ie: on flags, carrying scroll/relic/chaosball), increased AP gain, decreased telvar loss on death, reduced resurrect time.
Possible additional 4th tree: Specilisation
Have a fourth tree which allows character specialisation. This could contain direct combat benefits or specific skill changes, but these would be specific and generally come with a trade-off, so they allow a character to specialise but hopefully not contribute to power creep too much. These bonuses would apply in all game modes.
Examples: could be numerical bonuses such as Increased Flame damage but deceased Frost Resist, or changes to skills.
Rationale:

Attempt to address the negative effects of power creep from CP on overland and questing, while still allowing it to be present as a vertical progression system for endgame PvE. Also removes the enforced split between damage/sustain/mitigation present in the current system. Finally, having the trees be specific to certain content also means that only a subset of CP is ever active at once, hopefully reducing server load.
One downside is there may be some adjustment to some of the more recent world bosses and difficult overland encounters as you would no longer have a combat CP benefit.
Side benefits: Having separate Dungeon/Trial/Arena and PvP CP effects gives an indirect way of balancing endgame PvE and PvP separately. Also means once at max CP you wouldn’t have to respect CP to change a character between PvE and PvP as the tress are independent.

b) Instead of getting equally gaining CP for each tree, you simply gain CP and can spend it in whichever tree you like. However, each tree would have a cap (which can increase each update).
Rationale:

This means it becomes much faster for a new player to max out the game type they are focused on as they could simply put all their initial CP into just that tree, while still giving something to progress as they continue to gain CP.

c) Instead of the stars gaining fractions of a percent for each point spent and then passive unlocks after spending certain amounts like we do currently, change it so that you simply either unlock a whole percent or a passive for a variable cost. Ie: Damage done in the Dungeons/Trials tree might be 3CP for the first 1%.
Rationale:

Makes the system clearer and remove the opaqueness of jump points. Additionally, this would also mean that there can be larger one-off effects included for higher CP cost, as well as the incremental ones. Can still have a system of diminishing returns for the incrmental ones by having an increasing cost for each %

d) If required, the effects in each tree could be conditional on or mutually exclusive with other effects in that tree.

e) Optionally, remove the 20% stat bonus from CP and instead redirect that into gear, enchants etc.
Rationale:

This way you will get the stats you build for, instead of just a generic buff to all of them.

f) Players current CP total could be maintained when changing to this system.
Rationale:

No loss of effort already put in by players

Looks and sounds ok only thing i see is that with your overland and i'll call it "dungeon" tree some of the things gold, chest , and loot come from both areas and would need to be on par with each other or it would feel like 2/3 of your cp was useless while in these area's or youd have to re do cp often just to change area's of play not fun nor cheap

With this idea, you shouldn't have to change CP that often, as there would be a CP max per tree. For example max if the max is 250 per tree once you have 750 CP total you will have 250 in each tree at all times. There wouldn't be any point to respec CP when you swap from doing overland to dungeons as at that point can't take points from the overland to move to the dungeon tree as they would both already have the max allowable 250 CP in them. You would only need to respec CP if you wanted to rearrange within a tree.

However you are right depending on which zone you are in only one tree may be active so some may feel "wasted" depending on what content you do with that character (although ideally, this system would hopefully encourage characters to be used for more than one type of content as you wouldn't need to respec CP when changing content types as previously described). However this was the compromise to allow new players to reach max CP effectiveness in one type of content quicker. For example if the max per tree was 250, then that would allow a CP250 player to have as much power in the "dungeon" tree as a CP750 player would if the the CP250 simply put all 250 points into the dungeon tree and none elsewhere. This would allow them to much quicker be ready for that specific content on that character, but they would just be lacking in the other areas such as the overland utility, until they get more CP.

But there is probably no reason why the overland tree couldn't always apply to all content, I just originally thought of it as the three distinct components for simplicity.

Was speaking from an new players point of view on NEEDING to switch often as lets say an cp 300 would have to do if they went from overland to say pvp then back for dungeon runs that be 2 changes needed there for them to do something
Also this late into game any system they do will need to be at or above 1800 so as to not punish players that has been gaining cp this whole time idk if any are there yet but i know some are close

relentless_turnip

I think reduce the effectiveness of the red cp tree's in PVP area's and your pretty much good to go.

No CP doesn't have remotely the same issues as CP and I think it is mainly how much tankiness you get from CP.
For instance in melee damage alone i am getting an additional 35% mitigation in from my cp. 25% of that mitigation can't be penetrated and even if we lost 10% off of that we would notice a significant difference.

Maybe even if Ironclad (and thick skinned if DOT's ever work again )was half as effective in PVP area's? All of a sudden you would need to lose 10% somewhere else to be as tanky as before or you can take the 10% buff to your damage...

ExistingRug61

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

From what I can tell from my experiences and the multitude of comments, the perceived issues that exist with CP are as follows:
1) It’s potentially a barrier to new players reaching endgame. Currently, this is somewhat alleviated by front-loaded effects on CP.
2) Is a potential contributor to power creep. This has pros and cons
a. It gives a sense of vertical progression that many players desire
b. It potentially trivialises overland, quest and older content
3) Due to the forced distribution between the trees, it causes all players to be strong in all areas (damage/sustain/mitigation). The front loaded nature of CP actually contributes to this as it promotes spreading points as opposed to specialising in just one area.
4) Actual implementation of how incremental CP work is not clear, as you need to understand the jump points to get maximum benefit.
5) Potentially contribute to server load due to increased number of calculations, effecting performance
Any changes to CP should hopefully aim to address the above.

Additionally, if there is a change to the CP system the following needs to be considered:
6) Players are rewarded for the CP they currently have.
7) The current power level of players is approximately maintained, so players are still able to clear the same content they already are with not much difference

Considering the above, one system I had thought of that attempts to address most of these is the following (sorry, long post)

a) Instead of having three trees that are focused on damage/healing, sustain and defense, have three trees focused on the three main components of the game, being
Tree 1: Overland & Questing
This tree would give utility effects which are useful to exploration and general play. As such there would be no vertical progression/power creep from this tree. Effects only apply when not in a dungeon/trial/arena or a PvP zone.
Example effects include: Gold/Treasure drop increase, mat drop increase, reduced detection radius, increased sneak speed, increased movement speed out of combat, increased inspiration.
Tree 2: Dungeons, Trials & Arenas
This tree would include effects similar to the existing CP system, but simplified down into less stars. The effect of this tree would apply while in dungeons/trials/arenas only. (similar to slayer etc). This would mean there is still a vertical progression system, but it only affects player performance in dungeons and trials. These effects would need to be balanced so they give a similar potential to what is currently available.
Tree 3: PvP
This tree would include effects that do not directly affect general character power, but rather affect PvP objectives. Ideally there would be effects that cover all types of PvP (Cyrodiil, IC and Battlegrounds). It would only be in effect while in a PvP area.
Example effects include: Increase siege damage to keeps, decreased forward camp respawn time, small combat buffs while on/performing objectives (ie: on flags, carrying scroll/relic/chaosball), increased AP gain, decreased telvar loss on death, reduced resurrect time.
Possible additional 4th tree: Specilisation
Have a fourth tree which allows character specialisation. This could contain direct combat benefits or specific skill changes, but these would be specific and generally come with a trade-off, so they allow a character to specialise but hopefully not contribute to power creep too much. These bonuses would apply in all game modes.
Examples: could be numerical bonuses such as Increased Flame damage but deceased Frost Resist, or changes to skills.
Rationale:

Attempt to address the negative effects of power creep from CP on overland and questing, while still allowing it to be present as a vertical progression system for endgame PvE. Also removes the enforced split between damage/sustain/mitigation present in the current system. Finally, having the trees be specific to certain content also means that only a subset of CP is ever active at once, hopefully reducing server load.
One downside is there may be some adjustment to some of the more recent world bosses and difficult overland encounters as you would no longer have a combat CP benefit.
Side benefits: Having separate Dungeon/Trial/Arena and PvP CP effects gives an indirect way of balancing endgame PvE and PvP separately. Also means once at max CP you wouldn’t have to respect CP to change a character between PvE and PvP as the tress are independent.

b) Instead of getting equally gaining CP for each tree, you simply gain CP and can spend it in whichever tree you like. However, each tree would have a cap (which can increase each update).
Rationale:

This means it becomes much faster for a new player to max out the game type they are focused on as they could simply put all their initial CP into just that tree, while still giving something to progress as they continue to gain CP.

c) Instead of the stars gaining fractions of a percent for each point spent and then passive unlocks after spending certain amounts like we do currently, change it so that you simply either unlock a whole percent or a passive for a variable cost. Ie: Damage done in the Dungeons/Trials tree might be 3CP for the first 1%.
Rationale:

Makes the system clearer and remove the opaqueness of jump points. Additionally, this would also mean that there can be larger one-off effects included for higher CP cost, as well as the incremental ones. Can still have a system of diminishing returns for the incrmental ones by having an increasing cost for each %

d) If required, the effects in each tree could be conditional on or mutually exclusive with other effects in that tree.

e) Optionally, remove the 20% stat bonus from CP and instead redirect that into gear, enchants etc.
Rationale:

This way you will get the stats you build for, instead of just a generic buff to all of them.

f) Players current CP total could be maintained when changing to this system.
Rationale:

No loss of effort already put in by players

Looks and sounds ok only thing i see is that with your overland and i'll call it "dungeon" tree some of the things gold, chest , and loot come from both areas and would need to be on par with each other or it would feel like 2/3 of your cp was useless while in these area's or youd have to re do cp often just to change area's of play not fun nor cheap

With this idea, you shouldn't have to change CP that often, as there would be a CP max per tree. For example max if the max is 250 per tree once you have 750 CP total you will have 250 in each tree at all times. There wouldn't be any point to respec CP when you swap from doing overland to dungeons as at that point can't take points from the overland to move to the dungeon tree as they would both already have the max allowable 250 CP in them. You would only need to respec CP if you wanted to rearrange within a tree.

However you are right depending on which zone you are in only one tree may be active so some may feel "wasted" depending on what content you do with that character (although ideally, this system would hopefully encourage characters to be used for more than one type of content as you wouldn't need to respec CP when changing content types as previously described). However this was the compromise to allow new players to reach max CP effectiveness in one type of content quicker. For example if the max per tree was 250, then that would allow a CP250 player to have as much power in the "dungeon" tree as a CP750 player would if the the CP250 simply put all 250 points into the dungeon tree and none elsewhere. This would allow them to much quicker be ready for that specific content on that character, but they would just be lacking in the other areas such as the overland utility, until they get more CP.

But there is probably no reason why the overland tree couldn't always apply to all content, I just originally thought of it as the three distinct components for simplicity.

Was speaking from an new players point of view on NEEDING to switch often as lets say an cp 300 would have to do if they went from overland to say pvp then back for dungeon runs that be 2 changes needed there for them to do something
Also this late into game any system they do will need to be at or above 1800 so as to not punish players that has been gaining cp this whole time idk if any are there yet but i know some are close

Ah sorry I misunderstood.
Yes in that case you would have to respec CP if you wanted to swap between max effectiveness for individual content types if you had less than max CP. Alternatively you could spread points out between trees and rely on diminishing returns to get most of what you want at lower CP, similar to what you have to do with the current system. At least with this system you have the option to be at a higher effectiveness for one specific content type, which isn't currently an option. Or you could have a couple of characters, each focused on different content types until you get enough CP.

Still, I agree its not an ideal solution for new players at lower CP, but still hopefully better than the current one as it would have more options.
I think its always going to be hard get a nice solution for low CP as you have to deal with the conflicting aims of 1) wanting players to be effective at low CP so new players aren't too far behind, and 2) still needing there to be a tangible benefit of having more CP to encourage people to get more.

And as to what max to implement this far in yeah that would be a hard one to answer. Players need to feel rewarded for what they have, but at the same time if its too high it puts newer players even further back.

Nordic__Knights

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I think reduce the effectiveness of the red cp tree's in PVP area's and your pretty much good to go.

No CP doesn't have remotely the same issues as CP and I think it is mainly how much tankiness you get from CP.
For instance in melee damage alone i am getting an additional 35% mitigation in from my cp. 25% of that mitigation can't be penetrated and even if we lost 10% off of that we would notice a significant difference.

Maybe even if Ironclad (and thick skinned if DOT's ever work again )was half as effective in PVP area's? All of a sudden you would need to lose 10% somewhere else to be as tanky as before or you can take the 10% buff to your damage...

This is where i feel zos has lost site on BATTLE SPIRIT they could do so much to help pvp if they would add more into what it lets you get out of what cp gives you

Septimus_Magna

Only thing I would change is that you can have 2 load-outs on each character. This would include attributes, morphs and CP. I recently respecced my magsorc to a tank and noticed that doing dailies is really tedious with low dmg output. Healers and people who switch between PVE and PVP probably have similar issues.

I really think it would benefit many players if its easier to switch between support/dps and PVE/PVP. Not just for the players that switch roles but also those who are trying to form a dungeon group for example.

relentless_turnip

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Only thing I would change is that you can have 2 load-outs on each character. This would include attributes, morphs and CP. I recently respecced my magsorc to a tank and noticed that doing dailies is really tedious with low dmg output. Healers and people who switch between PVE and PVP probably have similar issues.

I really think it would benefit many players if its easier to switch between support/dps and PVE/PVP. Not just for the players that switch roles but also those who are trying to form a dungeon group for example.

Yeah its a good idea that I know Alcast is very vocal about.
You can get half the way there with addons like "dressing room".
Changing your morphs and cp every time is ridiculous though and costs about 5K each time

Nordic__Knights

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Only thing I would change is that you can have 2 load-outs on each character. This would include attributes, morphs and CP. I recently respecced my magsorc to a tank and noticed that doing dailies is really tedious with low dmg output. Healers and people who switch between PVE and PVP probably have similar issues.

I really think it would benefit many players if its easier to switch between support/dps and PVE/PVP. Not just for the players that switch roles but also those who are trying to form a dungeon group for example.

Yeah its a good idea that I know Alcast is very vocal about.
You can get half the way there with addons like "dressing room".
Changing your morphs and cp every time is ridiculous though and costs about 5K each time

Dressing room is for only 1/3 of the player base so its really not an helpful way to improve the game for everyone
And no that 1/3 aint based off #'s playing but platforms yes

Septimus_Magna

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Only thing I would change is that you can have 2 load-outs on each character. This would include attributes, morphs and CP. I recently respecced my magsorc to a tank and noticed that doing dailies is really tedious with low dmg output. Healers and people who switch between PVE and PVP probably have similar issues.

I really think it would benefit many players if its easier to switch between support/dps and PVE/PVP. Not just for the players that switch roles but also those who are trying to form a dungeon group for example.

Yeah its a good idea that I know Alcast is very vocal about.
You can get half the way there with addons like "dressing room".
Changing your morphs and cp every time is ridiculous though and costs about 5K each time

Yeah, I use a similar add-on to quickly swap gear and skills which works great, unfortunate thats not an option for console players.

One of the main issues in PVE is that its hard to find a tanks or healer, if I queue a vet pledge as tank it takes less than a minute, if I queue as dps it often takes 15-30 minutes. I think ZOS should do whatever they can to make it easier for people to quickly switch between roles. The game itself is diverse in solo, group and raid content so the systems should be tailored for players to spec accordingly.

And I tried but I cannot think of any downsides for implementing such a system, besides the development cost.

relentless_turnip

On a side note, I really wish you could change SOME skills in combat... not all... I understand the implications.

The odd time when I get rapid manoeuvre stuck in my bar as someone tries to gank me
I normally sit it over ele drain so it isn't essential skills blocked, but still...