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The maintenance is complete, and the PTS is now available.
I'm sick of the PVP Dizzy Swing spam meta
-
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭All you can do is go to the official feedback thread and complain how dizzy has been gutted to a boring ability to use and a tedious ability to play against. Dizzy was hardly talked about or used before the fundamental changes to it and onslaught in elsweyr.0 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's time to buff other spammable for stam classes, and make them viable.
ANY other spammable i tried beside Dizzy Swing placed me in a BIG disadvantage.
Alright, You made dizzy nicer and now EVERYONE, EVERY single stam player use this skill.
I'm fine with Dizzy Swing gets it's place at the wall of honor again,
But when 99% of stam players use this skill, you know something is wrong.
I dont ask you to nerf it, But simply buff and adjust animations other dead spammable and provide us more options.
List of skills you can adjust to open more options:
Heroic/Deep slash - My kind of gameplay, it feels like uselss, unless youre a PVE tank.
Power Slam - How the hell, bashing your shield into someone else face does not damage than slicing them?!
Hidden Blade - Good stats wise, but no one will ever use a ranged spammable on stam class, unless their snipers.
DK:
Stone Giant - See HiddenBlade
Stamcro:
Flame Skull - See HiddenBlade
Stamsorc:
It needs a spammable, cuz in this class case, its actually forced to use dizzy
Stamden:
Dive - See HiddenBlade
Give us more options and add depth to combat.
Its so boring at the moment.
Stamina needs exactly 0 buffs atm. It has al the best sets and skills atm, save for magicka Templar. And with the next update will pretty much have major berserk on demand. The favouritism toward stamina is palpable.
so because of stupidness via adding more stupid/broken sets for stamina is reason why stamina cant get fixed fromb eing useless to beaing in use skills, spammables?
thanks for your logic
and so because stamina is so op because of sets on it....lets buff magica skills enough to their "weak" sets so they will do 2x mroe damage if not more in crap builds than stamina without meta builds
Its not just the sets. The abilities hit harder and cost less than magicka, they are more reliable, they have shorter cast times, can be cancelled easier, have some seriously broken sets, and overperform where it matters far more than other classes. You cant expect buffs when you already have the best sets in the game. That is also part of balance.5 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »And they just buffed Dizzy
wait what ? removing reliable stun for a snare is a buff? unless it is sarcasm I am very confused about this statement :P
You will have everything - off-balance (though nerfed), stun (if you need more damage then from medium-heavy attack) and pretty good snare for remaining 15 seconds
tbh this is exactly what was lacking in dizzy - when somebody fast is withdrawing after receiving couple of dizzies and you simply don't have GCD to activate your speed buff... of course there are snare immunity periods.. but still it brings dizzy closer to jabs in terms of efficiency.
jabs is broken, that isnt the standard we should be using.2 -
amir412✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's time to buff other spammable for stam classes, and make them viable.
ANY other spammable i tried beside Dizzy Swing placed me in a BIG disadvantage.
Alright, You made dizzy nicer and now EVERYONE, EVERY single stam player use this skill.
I'm fine with Dizzy Swing gets it's place at the wall of honor again,
But when 99% of stam players use this skill, you know something is wrong.
I dont ask you to nerf it, But simply buff and adjust animations other dead spammable and provide us more options.
List of skills you can adjust to open more options:
Heroic/Deep slash - My kind of gameplay, it feels like uselss, unless youre a PVE tank.
Power Slam - How the hell, bashing your shield into someone else face does not damage than slicing them?!
Hidden Blade - Good stats wise, but no one will ever use a ranged spammable on stam class, unless their snipers.
DK:
Stone Giant - See HiddenBlade
Stamcro:
Flame Skull - See HiddenBlade
Stamsorc:
It needs a spammable, cuz in this class case, its actually forced to use dizzy
Stamden:
Dive - See HiddenBlade
Give us more options and add depth to combat.
Its so boring at the moment.
Stamina needs exactly 0 buffs atm. It has al the best sets and skills atm, save for magicka Templar. And with the next update will pretty much have major berserk on demand. The favouritism toward stamina is palpable.
so because of stupidness via adding more stupid/broken sets for stamina is reason why stamina cant get fixed fromb eing useless to beaing in use skills, spammables?
thanks for your logic
and so because stamina is so op because of sets on it....lets buff magica skills enough to their "weak" sets so they will do 2x mroe damage if not more in crap builds than stamina without meta builds
Its not just the sets. The abilities hit harder and cost less than magicka, they are more reliable, they have shorter cast times, can be cancelled easier, have some seriously broken sets, and overperform where it matters far more than other classes. You cant expect buffs when you already have the best sets in the game. That is also part of balance.
Did you even read this thread?
All i want is more diversity in spammables5 -
Expert✭✭✭✭Now they made dizzy swing have 40% snare , because they wanted a 2 handed spammable to be "sticky" to their target. And while it's sticky, they also want it to stun. And while they want it to stun and be sticky they want it to deal high damage. And while their off balanced you can have inflated damage for next dizzy Swing because of blue CP tree passive. And while your damage is inflated you can now sustain heavy attack with massive returns that give you back more than you spent on Dizzy Swing.
This 2h spammable has more identity than most classes lmao
P O W E R
F A N T A S Y14 -
Now they made dizzy swing have 40% snare , because they wanted a 2 handed spammable to be "sticky" to their target. And while it's sticky, they also want it to stun. And while they want it to stun and be sticky they want it to deal high damage. And while their off balanced you can have inflated damage for next dizzy Swing because of blue CP tree passive. And while your damage is inflated you can now sustain heavy attack with massive returns that give you back more than you spent on Dizzy Swing.
This 2h spammable has more identity than most classes lmao
P O W E R
F A N T A S Y 1 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Now they made dizzy swing have 40% snare , because they wanted a 2 handed spammable to be "sticky" to their target. And while it's sticky, they also want it to stun. And while they want it to stun and be sticky they want it to deal high damage. And while their off balanced you can have inflated damage for next dizzy Swing because of blue CP tree passive. And while your damage is inflated you can now sustain heavy attack with massive returns that give you back more than you spent on Dizzy Swing.
This 2h spammable has more identity than most classes lmao
P O W E R
F A N T A S Y
It's terrible now lol. I have used dizzy for years and this is the first time I have felt forced to change.
1 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭Here's a quick little dizzy timeline(note during some point, I believe with elsweyr changes, Dizzy lost its second aim check, but kept its second range check.) I also included other relevant changes that paired with dizzy playstyles over these patches.
5.1.0 (scalebreaker)
5.2.0 (dragonhold)
5.3.0 (Harrowstorm)
5.3.3
Has dizzy been buffed or just nerfed since scalebreaker?
Did onslaught need to be changed from a unique ult to a copy of corrosive?
Should dizzy or onslaught have been nerfed after onslaught was clearly too strong?
I would just like to point out that nobody really talked about or complained about dizzy before the scalebreaker changes to onslaught, the state of the ability was for the most part stable. It used to be fun to use, and a simple ability to couterplay against.
5 -
ElvenVeil✭✭✭Mister_DMC wrote: »I'm still confused if dizzy still causes off balance on its first hit?
yeah. off balance on first hit, second hit you stun (can still be done with a medium-heavy attack as far as I know) .. off balance lasts for 7 seconds so basically wait 22 seconds before you can stun again with dizzy. and then during off balance down time you get a snare. I think that sums up the skill next patch.Edited by ElvenVeil on February 11, 2020 12:59AM1 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mister_DMC wrote: »I'm still confused if dizzy still causes off balance on its first hit?
yeah. off balance on first hit, second hit you stun (can still be done with a medium-heavy attack as far as I know) .. off balance lasts for 7 seconds so basically wait 21 seconds before you can stun again with dizzy. and then during off balance down time you get a snare. I think that sums up the skill next patch.
There is a word that also sums up the skill next patch :P
1 -
thadjarvis✭✭✭✭@amir412
Note that Dizzy is getting significantly nerfed in PvP with the OB change.1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭How can people not see this as a buff? Maybe they should add a heal too so all the whiners can just spam one button that does everything.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten4 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭How can people not see this as a buff? Maybe they should add a heal too so all the whiners can just spam one button that does everything.
It isnt really a buff or a nerf, just because something got added doesnt mean it is better.
Buff: dizzy gained a 40% snare after you make a second+ hit atleast 7 seconds after the first hit.
Nerf: The snare is going to make more players dodge roll spam against you, you'll miss more hits and ults
I would rather have the same exact dizzy on pts without the snare on it 100%1 -
ElvenVeil✭✭✭How can people not see this as a buff? Maybe they should add a heal too so all the whiners can just spam one button that does everything.
It isnt really a buff or a nerf, just because something got added doesnt mean it is better.
Buff: dizzy gained a 40% snare after you make a second+ hit atleast 7 seconds after the first hit.
Nerf: The snare is going to make more players dodge roll spam against you, you'll miss more hits and ults
I would rather have the same exact dizzy on pts without the snare on it 100%
how is it not clearly nerfed ? It can't be viewed in isolation of what happened to off balance, and trading 2/3 ccs in a window of 22 seconds for a 40% snare , that might even might work against you like you pointed out, is a terrible trade in any pvp situation.3 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭How can people not see this as a buff? Maybe they should add a heal too so all the whiners can just spam one button that does everything.
How is only being able to cc someone every 21 seconds a buff ?
This is a huge nerf.
The snare is terrible. On live you can choose when to cc so you can line up a combo. If the enemy is lying on the ground about to be smashed bu your ult please tell me how a snare would make things any better ?
Edited by Crixus8000 on February 11, 2020 1:54AM4 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭How can people not see this as a buff? Maybe they should add a heal too so all the whiners can just spam one button that does everything.
It isnt really a buff or a nerf, just because something got added doesnt mean it is better.
Buff: dizzy gained a 40% snare after you make a second+ hit atleast 7 seconds after the first hit.
Nerf: The snare is going to make more players dodge roll spam against you, you'll miss more hits and ults
I would rather have the same exact dizzy on pts without the snare on it 100%
how is it not clearly nerfed ? It can't be viewed in isolation of what happened to off balance, and trading 2/3 ccs in a window of 22 seconds for a 40% snare , that might even might work against you like you pointed out, is a terrible trade in any pvp situation.
It is clearly nerfed, I was just trying to point out what other people (and zos) see. The mindset that adding something to an ability is a buff is a poor way of thinking.0 -
Abyssmol✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »And they just buffed Dizzy
wait what ? removing reliable stun for a snare is a buff? unless it is sarcasm I am very confused about this statement :P
Wait, did ZOS remove the stun from the second Dswing?0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »And they just buffed Dizzy
wait what ? removing reliable stun for a snare is a buff? unless it is sarcasm I am very confused about this statement :P
Wait, did ZOS remove the stun from the second Dswing?
No, just an off balance cooldown.
Some of these replies are pretty funny, what is it about PTS that makes people lose all common sense.
Snares, they’re useless! Someone might dodge roll.
Doing damage, it’s useless! People will just react by healing.
Healing, it’s useless! People will just do things and take more damage.
Stuns, they’re useless! People will just break free.
I think people overthink things. Snare = good, saying otherwise is ridiculous. I just imagine people thinking themselves into a huddled curled up mess in a corner thinking about how people might - shock - react, and forcing them to is a bad thing.
If you don’t like dizzy, then don’t use it, but we all know it’s more overloaded now then earlier on PTS, so we know you will be anyways.Edited by Iskiab on February 11, 2020 4:12AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten5 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's time to buff other spammable for stam classes, and make them viable.
ANY other spammable i tried beside Dizzy Swing placed me in a BIG disadvantage.
Alright, You made dizzy nicer and now EVERYONE, EVERY single stam player use this skill.
I'm fine with Dizzy Swing gets it's place at the wall of honor again,
But when 99% of stam players use this skill, you know something is wrong.
I dont ask you to nerf it, But simply buff and adjust animations to other dead spammable and provide us more options.
List of skills you can adjust to open more options:
Heroic/Deep slash - My kind of gameplay, it feels like uselss, unless youre a PVE tank.
Power Slam - How the hell, bashing your shield into someone else face does not damage than slicing them?!
Hidden Blade - Good stats wise, but no one will ever use a ranged spammable on stam class, unless they are snipers.
DK:
Stone Giant - See HiddenBlade, but also add a cast time lul
Stamcro:
Flame Skull - See HiddenBlade
Stamsorc:
It needs a spammable, cuz in this class case, its actually forced to use dizzy
Stamden:
Dive - See HiddenBlade
Give us more options and add depth to combat.
Its so boring at the moment.
I was sick of everyone using heroic slash and steel tornado too. The problem with buffing certain weapons is that it may bring us back to the old heroic/steel tornado meta. If heroic slash damage remained the same, then there is simply no reason to use the current dizzying swing over it, due to faster light attack bash weave, minor heroism and maim, as well as the ability to block more incoming damage. Steel tornado would also be chosen more if its damage and execute remained untouched, due to the undodgeable AoE mechanic. Spin2win and heroic slash were meta for a reason.
I don't want to see 1 weapon skill line being used by everyone, but in any PvP game people will always chase the meta, so I think it's very hard to make balance changes.Edited by StaticWave on February 11, 2020 5:38AM2 -
amir412✭✭✭✭✭
✭StaticWave wrote: »It's time to buff other spammable for stam classes, and make them viable.
ANY other spammable i tried beside Dizzy Swing placed me in a BIG disadvantage.
Alright, You made dizzy nicer and now EVERYONE, EVERY single stam player use this skill.
I'm fine with Dizzy Swing gets it's place at the wall of honor again,
But when 99% of stam players use this skill, you know something is wrong.
I dont ask you to nerf it, But simply buff and adjust animations to other dead spammable and provide us more options.
List of skills you can adjust to open more options:
Heroic/Deep slash - My kind of gameplay, it feels like uselss, unless youre a PVE tank.
Power Slam - How the hell, bashing your shield into someone else face does not damage than slicing them?!
Hidden Blade - Good stats wise, but no one will ever use a ranged spammable on stam class, unless they are snipers.
DK:
Stone Giant - See HiddenBlade, but also add a cast time lul
Stamcro:
Flame Skull - See HiddenBlade
Stamsorc:
It needs a spammable, cuz in this class case, its actually forced to use dizzy
Stamden:
Dive - See HiddenBlade
Give us more options and add depth to combat.
Its so boring at the moment.
I was sick of everyone using heroic slash and steel tornado too. The problem with buffing certain weapons is that it may bring us back to the old heroic/steel tornado meta. If heroic slash damage remained the same, then there is simply no reason to use the current dizzying swing over it, due to faster light attack bash weave, minor heroism and maim, as well as the ability to block more incoming damage. Steel tornado would also be chosen more if its damage and execute remained untouched, due to the undodgeable AoE mechanic. Spin2win and heroic slash were meta for a reason.
I don't want to see 1 weapon skill line being used by everyone, but in any PvP game people will always chase the meta, so I think it's very hard to make balance changes.
Buffing back heroic wont make it meta, as dizzy offers way better damage and additional traits.
Edited by amir412 on February 11, 2020 6:55AM3 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »And they just buffed Dizzy
wait what ? removing reliable stun for a snare is a buff? unless it is sarcasm I am very confused about this statement :P
Wait, did ZOS remove the stun from the second Dswing?
No, just an off balance cooldown.
Some of these replies are pretty funny, what is it about PTS that makes people lose all common sense.
Snares, they’re useless! Someone might dodge roll.
Doing damage, it’s useless! People will just react by healing.
Healing, it’s useless! People will just do things and take more damage.
Stuns, they’re useless! People will just break free.
I think people overthink things. Snare = good, saying otherwise is ridiculous. I just imagine people thinking themselves into a huddled curled up mess in a corner thinking about how people might - shock - react, and forcing them to is a bad thing.
If you don’t like dizzy, then don’t use it, but we all know it’s more overloaded now then earlier on PTS, so we know you will be anyways.
Live version allows you to control the cc whenever you want, making it great for timing burst. The pts version forces cc when you land the second dizzy making it far worse and then you can only cc every 21 seconds and if you can't see how that is a nerf then I don't know what to say lol.
So to comparing it to the current live version, yes it now snares but at the cost of losing control of the cc and only being able to cc someone every 21 seconds and that is ridiculous. Also the snare only occurs when the enemy can't be set off balanced and it doesn't really add anything to the playstyle anyway imo, only forces people to roll dodge more, and that's not something you want.
I have used the skill for years, through all the changes but after testing this on pts I won't bother using this skill again.
4 -
ElvenVeil✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »I was sick of everyone using heroic slash and steel tornado too. The problem with buffing certain weapons is that it may bring us back to the old heroic/steel tornado meta. If heroic slash damage remained the same, then there is simply no reason to use the current dizzying swing over it, due to faster light attack bash weave, minor heroism and maim, as well as the ability to block more incoming damage. Steel tornado would also be chosen more if its damage and execute remained untouched, due to the undodgeable AoE mechanic. Spin2win and heroic slash were meta for a reason.
I don't want to see 1 weapon skill line being used by everyone, but in any PvP game people will always chase the meta, so I think it's very hard to make balance changes.
both spin2win and and s/b gameplay were very distinct from each other. Some people even ran dizzy back then, as you can see in the thread. So there we already already had 3 different and viable playstyle, where the effictiveness of it came down to situations and opponents facing. Steel tornado was always an ineffective 1v1 tool, even when it was best, and if dizzy was at very least kept as fine as it is on live right now, some people would also go for that.
dizzy could use a bit more damage and these pts changes reverted, but a fast dizzy with a cc attached offers lots of reasons to pick it, even in the situations where the old spamables were restored - with dizzy you would save a bar slot because you don't need cc, it is muuch cheaper to run dizzy than s/b.
So I think as long as other options hold some sort of uniqueness that makes them the most viable tool in some situations, you would not see the entire server population using just 1 style like they do now.5 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's time to buff other spammable for stam classes, and make them viable.
ANY other spammable i tried beside Dizzy Swing placed me in a BIG disadvantage.
Alright, You made dizzy nicer and now EVERYONE, EVERY single stam player use this skill.
I'm fine with Dizzy Swing gets it's place at the wall of honor again,
But when 99% of stam players use this skill, you know something is wrong.
I dont ask you to nerf it, But simply buff and adjust animations other dead spammable and provide us more options.
List of skills you can adjust to open more options:
Heroic/Deep slash - My kind of gameplay, it feels like uselss, unless youre a PVE tank.
Power Slam - How the hell, bashing your shield into someone else face does not damage than slicing them?!
Hidden Blade - Good stats wise, but no one will ever use a ranged spammable on stam class, unless their snipers.
DK:
Stone Giant - See HiddenBlade
Stamcro:
Flame Skull - See HiddenBlade
Stamsorc:
It needs a spammable, cuz in this class case, its actually forced to use dizzy
Stamden:
Dive - See HiddenBlade
Give us more options and add depth to combat.
Its so boring at the moment.
Stamina needs exactly 0 buffs atm. It has al the best sets and skills atm, save for magicka Templar. And with the next update will pretty much have major berserk on demand. The favouritism toward stamina is palpable.
so because of stupidness via adding more stupid/broken sets for stamina is reason why stamina cant get fixed fromb eing useless to beaing in use skills, spammables?
thanks for your logic
and so because stamina is so op because of sets on it....lets buff magica skills enough to their "weak" sets so they will do 2x mroe damage if not more in crap builds than stamina without meta builds
Its not just the sets. The abilities hit harder and cost less than magicka, they are more reliable, they have shorter cast times, can be cancelled easier, have some seriously broken sets, and overperform where it matters far more than other classes. You cant expect buffs when you already have the best sets in the game. That is also part of balance.
By abilities I'm assuming you mean spammables since its a thread about spammables. In what universe do stam spammables hit harder than magicka ones? The only stam spammable which is actually strong is biting jabs. Other than that, magicka spammables are superior to stamina ones.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.3 -
Baphomet✭✭✭✭✭
✭You just know that when 100% of stam builds are centered around this one ability it’s too good and/or there’s a lack of good alternatives.
Dizzy has been meta for too long and it dumbs down the game.- The Psijic Order
- TKO
- Dominant Dominion
- The Noore2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's time to buff other spammable for stam classes, and make them viable.
ANY other spammable i tried beside Dizzy Swing placed me in a BIG disadvantage.
Alright, You made dizzy nicer and now EVERYONE, EVERY single stam player use this skill.
I'm fine with Dizzy Swing gets it's place at the wall of honor again,
But when 99% of stam players use this skill, you know something is wrong.
I dont ask you to nerf it, But simply buff and adjust animations other dead spammable and provide us more options.
List of skills you can adjust to open more options:
Heroic/Deep slash - My kind of gameplay, it feels like uselss, unless youre a PVE tank.
Power Slam - How the hell, bashing your shield into someone else face does not damage than slicing them?!
Hidden Blade - Good stats wise, but no one will ever use a ranged spammable on stam class, unless their snipers.
DK:
Stone Giant - See HiddenBlade
Stamcro:
Flame Skull - See HiddenBlade
Stamsorc:
It needs a spammable, cuz in this class case, its actually forced to use dizzy
Stamden:
Dive - See HiddenBlade
Give us more options and add depth to combat.
Its so boring at the moment.
Stamina needs exactly 0 buffs atm. It has al the best sets and skills atm, save for magicka Templar. And with the next update will pretty much have major berserk on demand. The favouritism toward stamina is palpable.
so because of stupidness via adding more stupid/broken sets for stamina is reason why stamina cant get fixed fromb eing useless to beaing in use skills, spammables?
thanks for your logic
and so because stamina is so op because of sets on it....lets buff magica skills enough to their "weak" sets so they will do 2x mroe damage if not more in crap builds than stamina without meta builds
Its not just the sets. The abilities hit harder and cost less than magicka, they are more reliable, they have shorter cast times, can be cancelled easier, have some seriously broken sets, and overperform where it matters far more than other classes. You cant expect buffs when you already have the best sets in the game. That is also part of balance.
By abilities I'm assuming you mean spammables since its a thread about spammables. In what universe do stam spammables hit harder than magicka ones? The only stam spammable which is actually strong is biting jabs. Other than that, magicka spammables are superior to stamina ones.
Huh? What are you smoking.
Stamina spammables are stronger across the board. Frag procs and sweeps are the only two that even come close, and both are prone to being reduced by their evasion, wings, shimmering shield, etc...
The game overwhelmingly favours melee, and stamina are the kings of melee. Stamina also overwhelmingly have the best self healing, it’s not even close. You can get an average of 4k vigor ticks in CP pvp (including battle spirit), for a mag to do that they’d have to use 3+ abilities. A tanky magplar block casting HTD on themselves only averages 6k.
Biggest issue with stamina is most players have only played stamina classes and have no clue what they’re talking about. Try playing a mag class before spouting nonsense.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten3 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's time to buff other spammable for stam classes, and make them viable.
ANY other spammable i tried beside Dizzy Swing placed me in a BIG disadvantage.
Alright, You made dizzy nicer and now EVERYONE, EVERY single stam player use this skill.
I'm fine with Dizzy Swing gets it's place at the wall of honor again,
But when 99% of stam players use this skill, you know something is wrong.
I dont ask you to nerf it, But simply buff and adjust animations other dead spammable and provide us more options.
List of skills you can adjust to open more options:
Heroic/Deep slash - My kind of gameplay, it feels like uselss, unless youre a PVE tank.
Power Slam - How the hell, bashing your shield into someone else face does not damage than slicing them?!
Hidden Blade - Good stats wise, but no one will ever use a ranged spammable on stam class, unless their snipers.
DK:
Stone Giant - See HiddenBlade
Stamcro:
Flame Skull - See HiddenBlade
Stamsorc:
It needs a spammable, cuz in this class case, its actually forced to use dizzy
Stamden:
Dive - See HiddenBlade
Give us more options and add depth to combat.
Its so boring at the moment.
Stamina needs exactly 0 buffs atm. It has al the best sets and skills atm, save for magicka Templar. And with the next update will pretty much have major berserk on demand. The favouritism toward stamina is palpable.
so because of stupidness via adding more stupid/broken sets for stamina is reason why stamina cant get fixed fromb eing useless to beaing in use skills, spammables?
thanks for your logic
and so because stamina is so op because of sets on it....lets buff magica skills enough to their "weak" sets so they will do 2x mroe damage if not more in crap builds than stamina without meta builds
Its not just the sets. The abilities hit harder and cost less than magicka, they are more reliable, they have shorter cast times, can be cancelled easier, have some seriously broken sets, and overperform where it matters far more than other classes. You cant expect buffs when you already have the best sets in the game. That is also part of balance.
Did you even read this thread?
All i want is more diversity in spammables
Did you even read the comment I replied to?0 -
It's time to buff other spammable for stam classes, and make them viable.
ANY other spammable i tried beside Dizzy Swing placed me in a BIG disadvantage.
Alright, You made dizzy nicer and now EVERYONE, EVERY single stam player use this skill.
I'm fine with Dizzy Swing gets it's place at the wall of honor again,
But when 99% of stam players use this skill, you know something is wrong.
I dont ask you to nerf it, But simply buff and adjust animations other dead spammable and provide us more options.
List of skills you can adjust to open more options:
Heroic/Deep slash - My kind of gameplay, it feels like uselss, unless youre a PVE tank.
Power Slam - How the hell, bashing your shield into someone else face does not damage than slicing them?!
Hidden Blade - Good stats wise, but no one will ever use a ranged spammable on stam class, unless their snipers.
DK:
Stone Giant - See HiddenBlade
Stamcro:
Flame Skull - See HiddenBlade
Stamsorc:
It needs a spammable, cuz in this class case, its actually forced to use dizzy
Stamden:
Dive - See HiddenBlade
Give us more options and add depth to combat.
Its so boring at the moment.
Stamina needs exactly 0 buffs atm. It has al the best sets and skills atm, save for magicka Templar. And with the next update will pretty much have major berserk on demand. The favouritism toward stamina is palpable.
so because of stupidness via adding more stupid/broken sets for stamina is reason why stamina cant get fixed fromb eing useless to beaing in use skills, spammables?
thanks for your logic
and so because stamina is so op because of sets on it....lets buff magica skills enough to their "weak" sets so they will do 2x mroe damage if not more in crap builds than stamina without meta builds
Its not just the sets. The abilities hit harder and cost less than magicka, they are more reliable, they have shorter cast times, can be cancelled easier, have some seriously broken sets, and overperform where it matters far more than other classes. You cant expect buffs when you already have the best sets in the game. That is also part of balance.
By abilities I'm assuming you mean spammables since its a thread about spammables. In what universe do stam spammables hit harder than magicka ones? The only stam spammable which is actually strong is biting jabs. Other than that, magicka spammables are superior to stamina ones.
Huh? What are you smoking.
Stamina spammables are stronger across the board. Frag procs and sweeps are the only two that even come close, and both are prone to being reduced by their evasion, wings, shimmering shield, etc...
The game overwhelmingly favours melee, and stamina are the kings of melee. Stamina also overwhelmingly have the best self healing, it’s not even close. You can get an average of 4k vigor ticks in CP pvp (including battle spirit), for a mag to do that they’d have to use 3+ abilities. A tanky magplar block casting HTD on themselves only averages 6k.
Biggest issue with stamina is most players have only played stamina classes and have no clue what they’re talking about. Try playing a mag class before spouting nonsense.
In fact, Rikumaru speaks for the list that we see at the beginning of the topic. In his answer, he most likely excluded Dizzy.Edited by OrderoftheDarkness on February 11, 2020 1:28PM1 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »I was sick of everyone using heroic slash and steel tornado too. The problem with buffing certain weapons is that it may bring us back to the old heroic/steel tornado meta. If heroic slash damage remained the same, then there is simply no reason to use the current dizzying swing over it, due to faster light attack bash weave, minor heroism and maim, as well as the ability to block more incoming damage. Steel tornado would also be chosen more if its damage and execute remained untouched, due to the undodgeable AoE mechanic. Spin2win and heroic slash were meta for a reason.
I don't want to see 1 weapon skill line being used by everyone, but in any PvP game people will always chase the meta, so I think it's very hard to make balance changes.
both spin2win and and s/b gameplay were very distinct from each other. Some people even ran dizzy back then, as you can see in the thread. So there we already already had 3 different and viable playstyle, where the effictiveness of it came down to situations and opponents facing. Steel tornado was always an ineffective 1v1 tool, even when it was best, and if dizzy was at very least kept as fine as it is on live right now, some people would also go for that.
dizzy could use a bit more damage and these pts changes reverted, but a fast dizzy with a cc attached offers lots of reasons to pick it, even in the situations where the old spamables were restored - with dizzy you would save a bar slot because you don't need cc, it is muuch cheaper to run dizzy than s/b.
So I think as long as other options hold some sort of uniqueness that makes them the most viable tool in some situations, you would not see the entire server population using just 1 style like they do now.
It was sad to see them blanket nerf the whole sword and shield damage lineup that most people use, probably wont return until they add in the relic sets that were mentioned or if abilities are just straight buffed. As for dual wield, if zos was smart, instead of trying to make dizzy closer to jabs as a spammable, they would have made flurry respectable as a morph. Currently it is the closest thing to jabs, but it has been forgotten for a while now. To me it seems kinda silly to kill off the dizzy playstyle to try to have two weapon abilities that they want to be like jabs.1
