Fast way to earn ingame gold a.k.a. the Crown selling scam

Curious_Death · February 2020

1st. don't give gold b4 u get gift.
2nd. avoid users below 600 cp.
3rd. ask first ur friends or guildmates!

myskyrim26 · February 2020

NeroBad wrote: »

myskyrim26 wrote: »

3 Why ZOS don't shut down ESO gold selling sites?

They don't own these sites, so how are they supposed to close them?

@myskyrim26 as they use ZOS property (ingame gold) in a way which is prohibited in their TOS. Maybe the site can't be taken down, but by tracking down the sellers, they could make it unusable (I check them monthly, and calculate my gold worth just for fun, but beacuse they change their rate I assume they are active)

It turned out that one of players I know is a gold seller. His guild used my home as a basic guildhall with some crafting stations. He contacted me from numerous accounts. I asked, why does he need so many accounts - and the answer was gold selling. Ban one - he will make 10 more...
Before the question is asked - no, I never used his "services". And quitted communications after I learned about what he's doing.

NeroBad · February 2020

starkerealm wrote: »

Aelorin wrote: »

I am still baffled by the fact that ZoS seems to do nothing at all to punish those scammers. I've decided i am out on this fraud untill a secure way of doing this trade is in the game.

As I recall, there's a specific warning, when you're scammed, that they'll only refund you a set number of times before you're on your own. It sounds like you kept going back for more without learning to adjust your risks.

@starkerealm for me that was 1. And the sad thing was that is was not a scam but a bug. Poor guy was banned, altough I trusted him that he sent the Gift and wrote the ticket that way. We talked about after (after his ban was removed), that he got his crown back.

I had 2 scam after that, and my real concern is not my money (I miss it but I can live with that), but that I fear player can gain easy gold vie this scam, and don't need to fear consequence. If they get banned for some time, but can keep the gold, then I can see a fast scammer to gain 10-20 million gold in PC EU in 5-10 hours before get a ban. In that time transfering the money to another account. 10 million is around 150 USD which is enough for 15 account in a usual sale price for ESO. so you can get 140 USD profit (make it 125 with all the admin costs), in a day if you do it every weekend you can get 1000 USD monthly which is wrong and also damage ZOS by make the general ingame feeling less pleasing (after my first scam I stopped playing for some days, also made me not to want Collectors upgrade just the regular)

Also if more gold would go for safe and fair sellers (yes I know the discord servers and buy my fair share there, but limited time offer made me make the risk beacuse had 1 hour to get it (had real life tasks) and saw an offer and made mistake to trust it) then more crowns will be bought which is good for ZOS imho.

Katahdin · February 2020

Always screenshot the transaction conversation.

I have sold crowns here and there.

I always group the person so I get their @name easier

I always ask for the gold up front because I am spending the real life money. I will not trade with someone who won't do that.

I've never been scammed and I've never scammed anyone else because my 5-6 year old account is not worth losing over a 1 million gold transaction.

I have repeat customers who have also referred me to friends because I have proven to be trustworthy.

I wish there was a more direct way to trade so that it would be safer for all involved but for whatever reason, ZoS can't or won't do that

rk1101320 · February 2020

just make the crown currency tradeable in the ingame thing

VaranisArano · February 2020

NeroBad wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

NeroBad wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Aelorin wrote: »

I am still baffled by the fact that ZoS seems to do nothing at all to punish those scammers. I've decided i am out on this fraud untill a secure way of doing this trade is in the game.

Realistically, what do you expect ZOS to do?

We've got a secure in-game interface for regular trading between players and scams still happen.

Whether its gifting or regular scams, the situation still wind up handled by Support and, as with any disciplinary action, you'll never find out what action was taking against the scammer because ZOS cares a lot more about player privacy than they do about the desires of some people to see scammers punished. The scammers may well be punished...but you'll almost certainly never know.

So really, what are your expectations here?

I know all the names who scammed me, yet I won't name them because it is prohibited. But what privacy is threatened if they answer me that action has been taken against the reported player (i had to name them for ZOS)? (they wrote it on forums when they punish people against dungeon exploit) After that I'm still prohibited to name them.

You might know who they are, but that doesn't entitle you to know what action was taken against an account that they own from an official source. That's the line ZOS has always drawn when it comes to privacy and disciplinary actions.

I know some people in PVP who've been reported for cheating and who just so happened to vanish about the time ZOS handed out temporary bans. That's not the same, legally, as ZOS straight up telling me "Yes, that person you reported has been punished."

Moreover, its a lot safer for the company that way. You say "Oh, I won't share the names because that's prohibited." But frankly, ZOS has no way of knowing that you'd respect that player's privacy! We've got plenty of examples where people don't because they aren't satisfied with how ZOS handled the matter. The last thing ZOS wants is for a disciplinary matter to escalate into the aggrieved player harassing the guilty party with evidence straight from ZOS confirming that someone's guilty.

Bottom line, you personally can have the best of intentions. Not everyone does, and ZOS has to set boundaries on player privacy that protect both the guilty and the innocent. Don't think of it in terms of what you personally would or wouldn't do. Think about it in terms of the worst-case scenario and liability, and then you'll start to see why ZOS sets the boundaries they do.

@VaranisArano Fair point there. Then I would like to ZOS to make such action - offering Crown selling services/Crown buying services and not complete agreed transaction after accepting payment (as simultaneous transaction is not possoble) - is against ESO TOS. With that atleast I would think it is somewhat on support's choice to take action (in the end I won't know and they can deny me request, but naive me would think otherwise).

Why do you think that its not against the TOS?

Support link: https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/31228/~/what-can-i-do-if-i-have-been-scammed-in-the-elder-scrolls-online?

In addition, one of the original Support responses to the question of trading Gifts for Gold includes the following advice:

"However, keep in mind that the player market in The Elder Scrolls Online is a "buyer beware" market, and not every trader is trustworthy!

When engaging in a trade with a player, it is best to ensure that the agreement occurs within an in-game channel such as text chat. If the agreement occurs outside of the game, Customer Support is unable to properly investigate – and if we can’t investigate, we may not be able to help!

If you find yourself a victim of a trade scam and have taken the necessary precautions to protect yourself, Customer Support may be able to intervene and investigate a scam trade. Click on this article (https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/6172 ) for further details."

So there Support lays out that scamming is against the TOS as well as explaining the circumstances under which they are best able to investigate and take action. Incidentally, that's as true for regular trading scams as it is for Gifts for Gold scams.

Darkstorne · February 2020

I sell Crowns on PC/EU. Always gold first. I know you're worried about being scammed for your gold, but I'm more worried about being scammed for my irl money.

Best advice I can give: Join a trusted Crown seller guild. I sell in Varen's Legacy. Guildmaster vets all the sellers so you buy in safety

Best thing ZOS can do: CoD system for Crown store items, with a refund system for the sellers if the buyer never claims the mail. Similar problem with gifting - I sent a Xanmeer Crown Crate as a gift to someone last year, and they never claimed it. There's a Crown Crate sitting in permanent unclaimed land, and not only can I not refund it, I can't even open it myself

krachall · February 2020

It still baffles me that people are getting scammed this way. Multiple people crying in zone chat about it every day. There are SO many other options for buying crowns but people choose the riskiest...and get burned.

From safest to riskiest:
1. Save your monthly crowns if you're ESO+
2. Buy crowns from the store.
3. Buy crowns from a friend
4. Buy crowns from a guildmate with tenure in the guild.
5. Buy crowns from a guildmate without tenure in the guild but someone in the guild vouched for.
6. Using a buying service site/discord.
7. Buy crowns from a guildmate that you don't know.
8. Buy crowns from a complete stranger.

And every day people pick option 8. *shrug*

rotaugen454 · February 2020

Three words...

Tamriel Crown Exchange

Yes, the broker gets a cut, but BOTH sides are protected.

doomette · February 2020

I think the devs are getting off a little easy with a good chunk of posters here. It’s not like IRL where there are far more factors a regulating body cannot control for. They’ve created this world and can implement a more secure marketplace or other safeguards if they so choose. But they don’t. They offered this new feature with little to no safeguards, that was their choice.
Yes even in the regular marketplace people get scammed, but just because it can’t be perfect, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try to make it more secure.
It’s easy to blame the scammed and ignore glaring infrastructure deficits, and yes, people should be more careful and recognize they’re on their own with this. But I think the devs hold some responsibility too.

Starlock · February 2020

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Three words...

Tamriel Crown Exchange

Yes, the broker gets a cut, but BOTH sides are protected.

Honestly, it's irresponsible to not develop something like this for the game. It should have been a top priority for roll-out shortly after gifting was allowed. And there wouldn't need to be any broker getting a cut. Just a gosh darned interface that is a gold-to-crown exchange like they have in Neverwinter that facilitates player exchanges. Neverwinter is a terrible game, but they definitely got this right compared to Zo$.

Iarao · February 2020

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Always wait to receive the crown gift first, then pay the gold.

yes. but if i were a seller, i wouldnt go for that. would you? and as a buyer, i would demand it. wouldnt you? impasse. this is why you use some sort of official channel, even tho it means paying more.

doomette · February 2020

Iarao wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Always wait to receive the crown gift first, then pay the gold.

yes. but if i were a seller, i wouldnt go for that. would you? and as a buyer, i would demand it. wouldnt you? impasse. this is why you use some sort of official channel, even tho it means paying more.

If I were a seller (I’m not, those crowns are mine, all mine), I’d sure as hell not risk a commodity bought by real money over something acquired pretty easily in-game. Unless maybe I had more money than sense, which sadly, I do not.

idk · February 2020

1. Zos does not define what a friend is. They leave that up to each of us to determine who a friend is. In my case most of my "friends" are in one of my guilds and are people I run with regularly. Are your friends crown scammers?

2. This thread has not determined Zos does not take action against crown scammers. And again, Zos figures we can determine who our own friends are. Sorry your friends seem to be crown scammers.

3. Zos does not own the internet nor do they have enforcement powers to shut down internet sites so they have no means to directly effect sites that sell gold. They can only manage their game.

What Zos could do is make all items that are giftable a token we can post on a guild store or directly gift to a friend. We would then have a safe way to sell crowns that makes much more sense than what OP is suggesting.

Until and unless that happens stop selling to strangers. Seriously, it does not make sense to trade such valuable items with a total stranger. We should all use our common sense first.

Edit: BTW, my suggestion is not perfect because even with a safe means to handle the transition as it provides there will still be some players that choose to take risks such as OP seems to have taken on more than one occasion. Zos cannot truly protect us from ourselves.

After all it does seem OP has been bitten by making a bad trade with a scammer more than once. Be more careful and look after who is #1.

Tandor · February 2020

doomette wrote: »

I think the devs are getting off a little easy with a good chunk of posters here. It’s not like IRL where there are far more factors a regulating body cannot control for. They’ve created this world and can implement a more secure marketplace or other safeguards if they so choose. But they don’t. They offered this new feature with little to no safeguards, that was their choice.
Yes even in the regular marketplace people get scammed, but just because it can’t be perfect, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try to make it more secure.
It’s easy to blame the scammed and ignore glaring infrastructure deficits, and yes, people should be more careful and recognize they’re on their own with this. But I think the devs hold some responsibility too.

People asked for the service, and ZOS agreed to provide it with no official support because players are expected to treat all player-to-player transactions with extreme care. It was then down to the players whether they trusted the service or not, and what amazes me from this thread is not that people want to trade in crowns/gold in the first place (which to me is pretty surprising in itself) but that they have been scammed multiple times. No lessons learnt, except apparently that ZOS doesn't care and won't do anything - hello, time to wake up?!

idk · February 2020

Tandor wrote: »

doomette wrote: »

I think the devs are getting off a little easy with a good chunk of posters here. It’s not like IRL where there are far more factors a regulating body cannot control for. They’ve created this world and can implement a more secure marketplace or other safeguards if they so choose. But they don’t. They offered this new feature with little to no safeguards, that was their choice.
Yes even in the regular marketplace people get scammed, but just because it can’t be perfect, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try to make it more secure.
It’s easy to blame the scammed and ignore glaring infrastructure deficits, and yes, people should be more careful and recognize they’re on their own with this. But I think the devs hold some responsibility too.

People asked for the service, and ZOS agreed to provide it with no official support because players are expected to treat all player-to-player transactions with extreme care. It was then down to the players whether they trusted the service or not, and what amazes me from this thread is not that people want to trade in crowns/gold in the first place (which to me is pretty surprising in itself) but that they have been scammed multiple times. No lessons learnt, except apparently that ZOS doesn't care and won't do anything - hello, time to wake up?!

I have to agree that it seems that people are not learning from their own mistakes. It seems as though they feel comfortable with repeating the same mistake of trading with strangers expecting to get bailed out by Zos again and again.

NeroBad · February 2020

Tandor wrote: »

doomette wrote: »

I think the devs are getting off a little easy with a good chunk of posters here. It’s not like IRL where there are far more factors a regulating body cannot control for. They’ve created this world and can implement a more secure marketplace or other safeguards if they so choose. But they don’t. They offered this new feature with little to no safeguards, that was their choice.
Yes even in the regular marketplace people get scammed, but just because it can’t be perfect, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try to make it more secure.
It’s easy to blame the scammed and ignore glaring infrastructure deficits, and yes, people should be more careful and recognize they’re on their own with this. But I think the devs hold some responsibility too.

People asked for the service, and ZOS agreed to provide it with no official support because players are expected to treat all player-to-player transactions with extreme care. It was then down to the players whether they trusted the service or not, and what amazes me from this thread is not that people want to trade in crowns/gold in the first place (which to me is pretty surprising in itself) but that they have been scammed multiple times. No lessons learnt, except apparently that ZOS doesn't care and won't do anything - hello, time to wake up?!

@Tandor I can't speak for others but I got scammed for a bigger one first then a smaller one second. I would also mention that in the past I had one error but not a scam, and multiple (10+) succesfull transacion in zone chat nonetheless I do discord or friend transaction most of the time.

And I hope many of us wake up but not by being always paranoid, limit our interactions, and saying everything what ZOS provided is okey. ZOS could try to program a safer easier transaction tool but I doubt, but I should just be quiet about it?

ZOS unmade many restriction from the past, my favorite is that now you can transmute items. Many suggested such system were they wrong? There was a guy who did vMA 200+ and didn't got the item he needed, was he stupid? I mean he "wasted multiple hours without getting the item, you could say he didn't learnt the lesson.

Anyway it is always worrying to see that how many people are on the scammers side(by guilt tripping the scammed side), like when a someone got robbed in bad neighborhood, there are always many people who just say "what did you excepted?" and no bad word about the thieves. Have it your way and accept system and don't say an critic about it. But I hope in the longrun more people will be on the "improve the neighborhood" side.

idk · February 2020

NeroBad wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

doomette wrote: »

I think the devs are getting off a little easy with a good chunk of posters here. It’s not like IRL where there are far more factors a regulating body cannot control for. They’ve created this world and can implement a more secure marketplace or other safeguards if they so choose. But they don’t. They offered this new feature with little to no safeguards, that was their choice.
Yes even in the regular marketplace people get scammed, but just because it can’t be perfect, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try to make it more secure.
It’s easy to blame the scammed and ignore glaring infrastructure deficits, and yes, people should be more careful and recognize they’re on their own with this. But I think the devs hold some responsibility too.

People asked for the service, and ZOS agreed to provide it with no official support because players are expected to treat all player-to-player transactions with extreme care. It was then down to the players whether they trusted the service or not, and what amazes me from this thread is not that people want to trade in crowns/gold in the first place (which to me is pretty surprising in itself) but that they have been scammed multiple times. No lessons learnt, except apparently that ZOS doesn't care and won't do anything - hello, time to wake up?!

I can't speak for others but I got scammed for a bigger one first then a smaller one second. I would also mention that in the past I had one error but not a scam, and multiple (10+) succesfull transacion in zone chat nonetheless I do discord or friend transaction most of the time.

And I hope many of us wake up but not by being always paranoid, limit our interactions, and saying everything what ZOS provided is okey. ZOS could try to program a safer easier transaction tool but I doubt, but I should just be quiet about it?

ZOS unmade many restriction from the past, my favorite is that now you can transmute items. Many suggested such system were they wrong? There was a guy who did vMA 200+ and didn't got the item he needed, was he stupid? I mean he "wasted multiple hours without getting the item, you could say he didn't learnt the lesson.

Anyway it is always worrying to see that how many people are on the scammers side(by guilt tripping the scammed side), like when a someone got robbed in bad neighborhood, there are always many people who just say "what did you excepted?" and no bad word about the thieves. Have it your way and accept system and don't say an critic about it. But I hope in the longrun more people will be on the "improve the neighborhood" side.

Trading directly with strangers in ESO (and probably any MMORPG) has always been risky. You acknowledge that being you have been scammed a number of times for using the most risky trading means in the game.

What surprises me is that you chose to reply to Tandor vs the post just before their's that had a suggestion that would enable a means to trade crown store items for in game gold without the risk. Those who actually want to remove the risk should be advocating for such a design because direct player to player trading has always been risky in ESO and pretty much any MMORPG that has the means.

So in the end this has nothing to do with being on the scammers side of things as that would be absurd.. It has more to do with personal responsibility and using some common sense which starts with advocating for changes that actually straighten out the issue vs just putting a band-aid on it.

NeroBad · February 2020

idk wrote: »

NeroBad wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

doomette wrote: »

I think the devs are getting off a little easy with a good chunk of posters here. It’s not like IRL where there are far more factors a regulating body cannot control for. They’ve created this world and can implement a more secure marketplace or other safeguards if they so choose. But they don’t. They offered this new feature with little to no safeguards, that was their choice.
Yes even in the regular marketplace people get scammed, but just because it can’t be perfect, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try to make it more secure.
It’s easy to blame the scammed and ignore glaring infrastructure deficits, and yes, people should be more careful and recognize they’re on their own with this. But I think the devs hold some responsibility too.

People asked for the service, and ZOS agreed to provide it with no official support because players are expected to treat all player-to-player transactions with extreme care. It was then down to the players whether they trusted the service or not, and what amazes me from this thread is not that people want to trade in crowns/gold in the first place (which to me is pretty surprising in itself) but that they have been scammed multiple times. No lessons learnt, except apparently that ZOS doesn't care and won't do anything - hello, time to wake up?!

I can't speak for others but I got scammed for a bigger one first then a smaller one second. I would also mention that in the past I had one error but not a scam, and multiple (10+) succesfull transacion in zone chat nonetheless I do discord or friend transaction most of the time.

And I hope many of us wake up but not by being always paranoid, limit our interactions, and saying everything what ZOS provided is okey. ZOS could try to program a safer easier transaction tool but I doubt, but I should just be quiet about it?

ZOS unmade many restriction from the past, my favorite is that now you can transmute items. Many suggested such system were they wrong? There was a guy who did vMA 200+ and didn't got the item he needed, was he stupid? I mean he "wasted multiple hours without getting the item, you could say he didn't learnt the lesson.

Anyway it is always worrying to see that how many people are on the scammers side(by guilt tripping the scammed side), like when a someone got robbed in bad neighborhood, there are always many people who just say "what did you excepted?" and no bad word about the thieves. Have it your way and accept system and don't say an critic about it. But I hope in the longrun more people will be on the "improve the neighborhood" side.

Trading directly with strangers in ESO (and probably any MMORPG) has always been risky. You acknowledge that being you have been scammed a number of times for using the most risky trading means in the game.

That number is 2, and as I said the succesfull ones were 5 times more then that. Also my worry is that in the past none then now 2 in row scam (more then a month apart)

idk wrote: »

What surprises me is that you chose to reply to Tandor vs the post just before their's that had a suggestion that would enable a means to trade crown store items for in game gold without the risk. Those who actually want to remove the risk should be advocating for such a design because direct player to player trading has always been risky in ESO and pretty much any MMORPG that has the means.

So in the end this has nothing to do with being on the scammers side of things as that would be absurd.. It has more to do with personal responsibility and using some common sense which starts with advocating for changes that actually straighten out the issue vs just putting a band-aid on it.

You write it down that siding with the scammers is absurd yet not a bad word has been written about them in your comment. I miss the gold but I don't demand it back (not even in my ticket), I just want a environment where not just the scammed but the scammers also punished.

Ackwalan · February 2020

ZOS should make a crown box that could hold 500 or 1,500 or 5,000 crowns, and then this box could either be mailed COD or even placed on a trader. Leave the gift option there, I'm sure somebody still gives them as real gifts, but this crown box would go a long way in slowing down the scammers.

idk · February 2020

NeroBad wrote: »

idk wrote: »

NeroBad wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

doomette wrote: »

I think the devs are getting off a little easy with a good chunk of posters here. It’s not like IRL where there are far more factors a regulating body cannot control for. They’ve created this world and can implement a more secure marketplace or other safeguards if they so choose. But they don’t. They offered this new feature with little to no safeguards, that was their choice.
Yes even in the regular marketplace people get scammed, but just because it can’t be perfect, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try to make it more secure.
It’s easy to blame the scammed and ignore glaring infrastructure deficits, and yes, people should be more careful and recognize they’re on their own with this. But I think the devs hold some responsibility too.

People asked for the service, and ZOS agreed to provide it with no official support because players are expected to treat all player-to-player transactions with extreme care. It was then down to the players whether they trusted the service or not, and what amazes me from this thread is not that people want to trade in crowns/gold in the first place (which to me is pretty surprising in itself) but that they have been scammed multiple times. No lessons learnt, except apparently that ZOS doesn't care and won't do anything - hello, time to wake up?!

I can't speak for others but I got scammed for a bigger one first then a smaller one second. I would also mention that in the past I had one error but not a scam, and multiple (10+) succesfull transacion in zone chat nonetheless I do discord or friend transaction most of the time.

And I hope many of us wake up but not by being always paranoid, limit our interactions, and saying everything what ZOS provided is okey. ZOS could try to program a safer easier transaction tool but I doubt, but I should just be quiet about it?

ZOS unmade many restriction from the past, my favorite is that now you can transmute items. Many suggested such system were they wrong? There was a guy who did vMA 200+ and didn't got the item he needed, was he stupid? I mean he "wasted multiple hours without getting the item, you could say he didn't learnt the lesson.

Anyway it is always worrying to see that how many people are on the scammers side(by guilt tripping the scammed side), like when a someone got robbed in bad neighborhood, there are always many people who just say "what did you excepted?" and no bad word about the thieves. Have it your way and accept system and don't say an critic about it. But I hope in the longrun more people will be on the "improve the neighborhood" side.

Trading directly with strangers in ESO (and probably any MMORPG) has always been risky. You acknowledge that being you have been scammed a number of times for using the most risky trading means in the game.

That number is 2, and as I said the succesfull ones were 5 times more then that. Also my worry is that in the past none then now 2 in row scam (more then a month apart).

I never suggested there were never successful trades. Just that direct player 2 player trades are inherently risky which the information you provide here supports.

NeroBad wrote: »

idk wrote: »

NeroBad wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

doomette wrote: »

I think the devs are getting off a little easy with a good chunk of posters here. It’s not like IRL where there are far more factors a regulating body cannot control for. They’ve created this world and can implement a more secure marketplace or other safeguards if they so choose. But they don’t. They offered this new feature with little to no safeguards, that was their choice.
Yes even in the regular marketplace people get scammed, but just because it can’t be perfect, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try to make it more secure.
It’s easy to blame the scammed and ignore glaring infrastructure deficits, and yes, people should be more careful and recognize they’re on their own with this. But I think the devs hold some responsibility too.

People asked for the service, and ZOS agreed to provide it with no official support because players are expected to treat all player-to-player transactions with extreme care. It was then down to the players whether they trusted the service or not, and what amazes me from this thread is not that people want to trade in crowns/gold in the first place (which to me is pretty surprising in itself) but that they have been scammed multiple times. No lessons learnt, except apparently that ZOS doesn't care and won't do anything - hello, time to wake up?!

I can't speak for others but I got scammed for a bigger one first then a smaller one second. I would also mention that in the past I had one error but not a scam, and multiple (10+) succesfull transacion in zone chat nonetheless I do discord or friend transaction most of the time.

And I hope many of us wake up but not by being always paranoid, limit our interactions, and saying everything what ZOS provided is okey. ZOS could try to program a safer easier transaction tool but I doubt, but I should just be quiet about it?

ZOS unmade many restriction from the past, my favorite is that now you can transmute items. Many suggested such system were they wrong? There was a guy who did vMA 200+ and didn't got the item he needed, was he stupid? I mean he "wasted multiple hours without getting the item, you could say he didn't learnt the lesson.

Anyway it is always worrying to see that how many people are on the scammers side(by guilt tripping the scammed side), like when a someone got robbed in bad neighborhood, there are always many people who just say "what did you excepted?" and no bad word about the thieves. Have it your way and accept system and don't say an critic about it. But I hope in the longrun more people will be on the "improve the neighborhood" side.

idk wrote: »

What surprises me is that you chose to reply to Tandor vs the post just before their's that had a suggestion that would enable a means to trade crown store items for in game gold without the risk. Those who actually want to remove the risk should be advocating for such a design because direct player to player trading has always been risky in ESO and pretty much any MMORPG that has the means.

So in the end this has nothing to do with being on the scammers side of things as that would be absurd.. It has more to do with personal responsibility and using some common sense which starts with advocating for changes that actually straighten out the issue vs just putting a band-aid on it.

You write it down that siding with the scammers is absurd yet not a bad word has been written about them in your comment. I miss the gold but I don't demand it back (not even in my ticket), I just want a environment where not just the scammed but the scammers also punished.

I find it odd you make this comment yet you ignore the sentence directing you, or anyone, to my previous post with a solid suggestion that would provide a means to trade crown store items for in game gold scam free.

Are you even interested in an actual solution or just want to argue and falsely paint people as ardent supporters of scammers? Personally I would rather focus on the suggestion that would eliminate the chance of being scammed for those that are truly interested in such a solution. My words speak for themselves as I have pointed out.

VaranisArano · February 2020

NeroBad wrote: »

idk wrote: »

NeroBad wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

doomette wrote: »

I think the devs are getting off a little easy with a good chunk of posters here. It’s not like IRL where there are far more factors a regulating body cannot control for. They’ve created this world and can implement a more secure marketplace or other safeguards if they so choose. But they don’t. They offered this new feature with little to no safeguards, that was their choice.
Yes even in the regular marketplace people get scammed, but just because it can’t be perfect, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try to make it more secure.
It’s easy to blame the scammed and ignore glaring infrastructure deficits, and yes, people should be more careful and recognize they’re on their own with this. But I think the devs hold some responsibility too.

People asked for the service, and ZOS agreed to provide it with no official support because players are expected to treat all player-to-player transactions with extreme care. It was then down to the players whether they trusted the service or not, and what amazes me from this thread is not that people want to trade in crowns/gold in the first place (which to me is pretty surprising in itself) but that they have been scammed multiple times. No lessons learnt, except apparently that ZOS doesn't care and won't do anything - hello, time to wake up?!

I can't speak for others but I got scammed for a bigger one first then a smaller one second. I would also mention that in the past I had one error but not a scam, and multiple (10+) succesfull transacion in zone chat nonetheless I do discord or friend transaction most of the time.

And I hope many of us wake up but not by being always paranoid, limit our interactions, and saying everything what ZOS provided is okey. ZOS could try to program a safer easier transaction tool but I doubt, but I should just be quiet about it?

ZOS unmade many restriction from the past, my favorite is that now you can transmute items. Many suggested such system were they wrong? There was a guy who did vMA 200+ and didn't got the item he needed, was he stupid? I mean he "wasted multiple hours without getting the item, you could say he didn't learnt the lesson.

Anyway it is always worrying to see that how many people are on the scammers side(by guilt tripping the scammed side), like when a someone got robbed in bad neighborhood, there are always many people who just say "what did you excepted?" and no bad word about the thieves. Have it your way and accept system and don't say an critic about it. But I hope in the longrun more people will be on the "improve the neighborhood" side.

Trading directly with strangers in ESO (and probably any MMORPG) has always been risky. You acknowledge that being you have been scammed a number of times for using the most risky trading means in the game.

That number is 2, and as I said the succesfull ones were 5 times more then that. Also my worry is that in the past none then now 2 in row scam (more then a month apart)

idk wrote: »

What surprises me is that you chose to reply to Tandor vs the post just before their's that had a suggestion that would enable a means to trade crown store items for in game gold without the risk. Those who actually want to remove the risk should be advocating for such a design because direct player to player trading has always been risky in ESO and pretty much any MMORPG that has the means.

So in the end this has nothing to do with being on the scammers side of things as that would be absurd.. It has more to do with personal responsibility and using some common sense which starts with advocating for changes that actually straighten out the issue vs just putting a band-aid on it.

You write it down that siding with the scammers is absurd yet not a bad word has been written about them in your comment. I miss the gold but I don't demand it back (not even in my ticket), I just want a environment where not just the scammed but the scammers also punished.

No one here supports scammers. You are stretching pretty hard to turn "didn't say a bad word about scammers" into "being on the scammers' side".

However, that doesn't mean we agree with you about how to handle scammers or that ZOS doesn't handle scammers appropriately. Or that we think ZOS is likely to listen.

1. You aren't entitled to find out disciplinary actions taken against another player.
2. Scamming is in fact against the TOS and you can report it to Support. If you did the trade through in-game channels or have in-game evidence of it, Support can investigate it.

As for whether or not ZOS can in fact implement a trading UI for crown store gifts that would be at least as good as the current trading UI...
Its probably technically possible.
It would be beneficial for players. Not risk-free, but better than what we have.
But they haven't done it.
They specifically made the Crown Store Gifting system well designed for actual gifting. Despite the fact that we warned them about this on PTS and have been begging for a better trading system since it launched.

For whatever reason, it seems to suit ZOS to keep the official intent of Crown Store Gifting to actually be giving gifts to other players. They allow trades, and investigate scams, but they really don't officially encourage trading gifts for gold.

Tigerseye · February 2020

I've said it before, but I guess I will say it, again:

What ZOS, ideally, need to do is to introduce a trading system, like the one in GW2, where they allow people to trade gold for Crowns, or Crowns for gold, automatically.

Then, not only is it 100% safe and convenient, they can also take a small cut off every exchange, which will add to their revenue and (hopefully) help them maintain the game.

They can then leave the gifting system purely for people giving (genuine) gifts.

Better for us; better for them.

Beardimus · February 2020

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Always wait to receive the crown gift first, then pay the gold.

Flat no.

@gatekeeper13 you seriously value your in game gold more than real world money? Wow.

gatekeeper13 · February 2020

Beardimus wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Always wait to receive the crown gift first, then pay the gold.

Flat no.

@gatekeeper13 you seriously value your in game gold more than real world money? Wow.

I buy Crowns with gold. Not sell them.

Saelent · February 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

I've said it before, but I guess I will say it, again:

What ZOS, ideally, need to do is to introduce a trading system, like the one in GW2, where they allow people to trade gold for Crowns, or Crowns for gold, automatically.

Then, not only is it 100% safe and convenient, they can also take a small cut off every exchange, which will add to their revenue and (hopefully) help them maintain the game.

They can then leave the gifting system purely for people giving (genuine) gifts.

Better for us; better for them.

Correct me if I’m wrong (been a while since I played GW2) but that system you’re talking about doesn’t involve real world cash to buy the crowns.
Because if that’s the case then that wouldn’t be better for ZoS because in the current system ZoS is getting money from the crown seller buying the crowns irl and ‘gifting’ the crown items in game.

Why would ZoS make a system that gives them a small cut? Even with the scams they likely make far more from real sellers each time the seller buys crowns. Small cuts are for intermediaries, your idea isn’t ideal at all and sounds more like you want to cut out an economy which has grown within the system as it is.

A trading system within the gifting system would be preferable to protect both sides, not a system that doesn’t include crown sellers at all.

BackStabeth · February 2020

Scamming people is certainly not the best or the fastest way to make gold. Lazy people who believe what the OP titled the post might spend hours and hours trying to hook someone into falling for their scam. A lot of times they are not successful but still they go on and on and invest a lot of time, effort and energy in trying to scam people.

If you don't want to be If you don't want to be farmed for gold by a scammer there are ways you can prevent it. When I see posts like this I often think the person who got scammed, even though I feel bad for them, that it was partly their fault. Being impatient for example, might lead a person to do things and take risks that open the door for scammers to take advantage of them.

Trade with people whom you know, best option. Use the discord channel. Use a middleman. Trade with someone in your guild if it's a well established guild.

If you are going to engage in a transaction that you believe might be risky, then take screen shots or video of the entire transaction. Let the person whom you are trading with know that you are taking screen caps or video of the entire process. It's very difficult for ZoS to dismiss someone who backs up their claim with proof. I suspect most people who get scammed don't report the scam, or if they do they have nothing to back up their claim.

People have been banned for scamming, so we know ZoS has done something about it in those cases. From what I can tell, these people also recorded the entire transaction process.

If a scammer knows you are recording everything the transaction entails, all the conversations, messages, mail etc that they will probably not risk scamming you. Regardless if they move the gold between accounts all it takes is for ZoS to see one scam and where the gold was distributed to ban all the accounts, then that scammer looses all the gold the scammed.

I suspect that ZoS is not going to invest any time, effort or energy into things that do not return a profit. Attempting to investigate a transaction when they have no proof to go on might be something they just ignore.

When you buy a gift card, you ask for a receipt in case there is a problem later. In any monetary transaction in the real world there are multiple things people do to ensure that they are not ripped off. Do the same in game. Ask them send you a message before you send them anything, that they will send you whatever it is in the crown store, and the amount of crowns it amounts to, and that they will send it as a gift to complete the transaction. If they don't follow through, report them right away and attach all the information, and proof of the agreed transaction. It takes more time to transact this way, but if they and you are both serious then they will do as you ask. The little added time will benefit both of you in the end and if they are as serious as you are then they will gladly entertain your requests. If not, don't do the transaction with them.

And remember, they are not doing you a favor, they are engaging in a transaction that benefits them as well, it's mutually beneficial not a favor.

Cryptical · February 2020

If you’re on a console, and Zos isn’t acknowledging that someone broke the terms of service by ripping you off, then report it to Microsoft/Sony.

The console companies generally have broader categories of complaints, and refusing to provide the crown item is theft - theft of a thing which has a real world value. (It’s hard to say crowns are valueless when you have them listed for sale.)

I had to go this route once, and the idiot scammer had his Xbox account disabled.

NeroBad · February 2020

BackStabeth wrote: »

Scamming people is certainly not the best or the fastest way to make gold. Lazy people who believe what the OP titled the post might spend hours and hours trying to hook someone into falling for their scam. A lot of times they are not successful but still they go on and on and invest a lot of time, effort and energy in trying to scam people.

@BackStabeth I didn't write the as the best or fastest way, but altough there could be hours without finding someone, there can be hours where there are multiple trasnacion.

BackStabeth wrote: »

If you don't want to be If you don't want to be farmed for gold by a scammer there are ways you can prevent it. When I see posts like this I often think the person who got scammed, even though I feel bad for them, that it was partly their fault. Being impatient for example, might lead a person to do things and take risks that open the door for scammers to take advantage of them.

I agree on this (I had one day left for my item and limited time to be online Discord didn't found me a match, and there was a belivable offer and I took the risk, and I just hope that as I lost my money there, he loses his time in the game)

BackStabeth wrote: »

Trade with people whom you know, best option. Use the discord channel. Use a middleman. Trade with someone in your guild if it's a well established guild.

Always the best options, but zone chat crown sellers are so rampant, I want to adress the issu, because I think ZOS could make their action harder (wrote my suggestion, but I think they can think even better ones)

BackStabeth wrote: »

If you are going to engage in a transaction that you believe might be risky, then take screen shots or video of the entire transaction. Let the person whom you are trading with know that you are taking screen caps or video of the entire process. It's very difficult for ZoS to dismiss someone who backs up their claim with proof. I suspect most people who get scammed don't report the scam, or if they do they have nothing to back up their claim.

I don't know how often they report such things or back it up by evidance, I know I do.

BackStabeth wrote: »

People have been banned for scamming, so we know ZoS has done something about it in those cases. From what I can tell, these people also recorded the entire transaction process.

My fear is that ZOS involment in these kind of scam is diminished. I hope I had just a bad luck 2 in a row, but I wrote my concerns.

BackStabeth wrote: »

If a scammer knows you are recording everything the transaction entails, all the conversations, messages, mail etc that they will probably not risk scamming you. Regardless if they move the gold between accounts all it takes is for ZoS to see one scam and where the gold was distributed to ban all the accounts, then that scammer looses all the gold the scammed.

If they can do that they should use this tracking for direct gold to money sites, as these sites are directly hurting ZOS revenue (if people buy their gold via Crowns it benefits ZOS, if people buy their gold via credit/debitcard it has zero money for ZOS)

BackStabeth wrote: »

I suspect that ZoS is not going to invest any time, effort or energy into things that do not return a profit. Attempting to investigate a transaction when they have no proof to go on might be something they just ignore.

I agree, proof should be there to back up your report.

BackStabeth wrote: »

When you buy a gift card, you ask for a receipt in case there is a problem later. In any monetary transaction in the real world there are multiple things people do to ensure that they are not ripped off. Do the same in game. Ask them send you a message before you send them anything, that they will send you whatever it is in the crown store, and the amount of crowns it amounts to, and that they will send it as a gift to complete the transaction. If they don't follow through, report them right away and attach all the information, and proof of the agreed transaction. It takes more time to transact this way, but if they and you are both serious then they will do as you ask. The little added time will benefit both of you in the end and if they are as serious as you are then they will gladly entertain your requests. If not, don't do the transaction with them.

Told as pro, also I suggest to make a chat type where only group chat is active, so your agreement can be see entirely(zone chat with guild recruitment can be overloaded).

BackStabeth wrote: »

And remember, they are not doing you a favor, they are engaging in a transaction that benefits them as well, it's mutually beneficial not a favor.

Yes and as for crowns go, I say it is beneficial for ZOS also (but primary for the seller and buyer).

omegatay_ESO · February 2020

The higher CP requirement is questionable. I have been playing casual since launch and my highest character is 575. People can grind to max CP quite quickly. Take with a grain of salt.