Fast way to earn ingame gold a.k.a. the Crown selling scam

NeroBad · February 2020

At the beginning of the gifting system ZOS was involved with the new gold to crown business by punishing scammers. As of now scammers are rampant in zone chats, and ZOS won't do anything about them, as gold to crown are not intended feature from ZOS. So with that attitude if you need gold you can just write WTS 5000 crown (place a believable rate considering
your megaserver) in zone chat, agree on half before half after, then after taking the before part, put the unlucky believer on your ignore list, and vanish with profit.

My latest ticket (200202-001462) is ignored as last time, I would require some answers from ZOS.

1 If Gifting was only intended as pure gifting between friends then, why won't ZOS put some day requirement for friends to be able to gift (how often it is that you add a new friend and want to gift them immediately if no gold involved )? with that preventing scammers to gain super quick money.

2 If crown seller scammers won't be punished (atleast I'm not informed about such cases anymore), what is the reason to not do the above written action (not counting human decency)?

3 Why ZOS don't shut down ESO gold selling sites? I see many of them are alive and online since 2016 (I started playing in 2016), I have a strong conviction that many scammers gather gold for selling it for real money. Now I can understand such behaviour - altough I would never do such things (scam, sell it for real money) -, by not showing or communicating action against crown seller scammers, and gold sellers for real money, ZOS encourage these actions.

And before obvious suggestions will be made.
I know discord servers are the safest place to do gold to crown - but not all players use or know these, and scammers actively promote themselfs in ingame zone chat.
I know low rates and low levels are redflags.
I know guild mates and long term friends are also a good alternative - but some guilds prohibit WTB including crowns, and it is not rare that none of your friends have sellable crowns.
I know crowns are there for 24/7 to purchase - but I have more gold that I need, and there are people who have more crowns that they need, also I spend more then 1% of my monthly earnings on ESO via ESO+ and some extra purchases every month, which is a lot if you think about it. And I know Crown Store items are mostly expensive cosmetics, which many of us would ignore if not for gifting, but with gifting we think that altough we would not spend 20 bucks on a mount but would spend 1-2 million gold for it.

gatekeeper13 · February 2020

Always wait to receive the crown gift first, then pay the gold.

barney2525 · February 2020

I'm not taking a side on this. Just making observations.

First - Buyer Beware ... That is the responsibility of the Buyer

Second - The system is designed for gifting. So, if I want to Give something to another character on another account, I can. That is the purpose of the system. ... If players choose to 'use' the system in a manner that relies on Trust between both parties, and therefore is inherently Risky, it is Not an obligation of the Company to make sure Trust is not broken.

The Company is not liable for Risky decisions made by the players.

Third - Zos (and Any Company for that matter ) can not shut down websites. What Companies do is try to make sure all their own game currency is valid and take action against accounts of those who have invalid currency. No one will ever know how often this is done or how many accounts were banned because this information is not made public.

If people decide to use one of these websites, that, Again, is a Risk that the Player takes. The responsibility for the account being banned rests solely on the shoulders of the Player.

IMHO

NeroBad · February 2020

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Always wait to receive the crown gift first, then pay the gold.

I can understand the other party by not wanting to give their crowns (purchased via real money) first, there are scammers in the other side also. I usually suggest half half, but did first gift and also full gold first.

VaranisArano · February 2020

Crown Gifting for Gold is allowed by ZOS.

That being said, they deliberately ignored everyone on PTS who begged for a more sensible trading system, waited until after the launch to clarify that it was allowed, and seem content to handle scams in a piecemeal fashion as they arise instead of taking proactive steps to manage the trade.

Why?
I dunno.
1. It could be something to do with liability. Certainly its easier to wash their hands of it and let players handle the exchanges.
2. They might figure some players might trade crown gifts for less tangible things like trial runs, so how does ZOS regulate that?

As for goldsellers, talk about playing whack-a-mole.

SpiderCultist · February 2020

always record and expose the scammer

ticket to Zos

don't ever trade with lowbies/newbies

800CP at least

NeroBad · February 2020

barney2525 wrote: »

I'm not taking a side on this. Just making observations.

First - Buyer Beware ... That is the responsibility of the Buyer

That is true but, if they won't punish such action then more and more people will scam players, which will make the ingame environment more toxic, which is against ZOS will.

barney2525 wrote: »

Second - The system is designed for gifting. So, if I want to Give something to another character on another account, I can. That is the purpose of the system. ... If players choose to 'use' the system in a manner that relies on Trust between both parties, and therefore is inherently Risky, it is Not an obligation of the Company to make sure Trust is not broken.

The Company is not liable for Risky decisions made by the players.

I wrote how they could change the day required to be friends before gifting is available (same how you can't gift for some days after creating an account), making the system harder for scammers

barney2525 wrote: »

Third - Zos (and Any Company for that matter ) can not shut down websites. What Companies do is try to make sure all their own game currency is valid and take action against accounts of those who have invalid currency. No one will ever know how often this is done or how many accounts were banned because this information is not made public.

If people decide to use one of these websites, that, Again, is a Risk that the Player takes. The responsibility for the account being banned rests solely on the shoulders of the Player.

IMHO

Those sites use ZOS properties (ingame gold is ZOS property), such way which is against their TOS yet the sites are well and alive, but when ZOS makes code errors what players exploit, they make it a big display to discourage such behavior (Im on their side in that)

Aelorin · February 2020

I am still baffled by the fact that ZoS seems to do nothing at all to punish those scammers. I've decided i am out on this fraud untill a secure way of doing this trade is in the game.

VaranisArano · February 2020

Aelorin wrote: »

I am still baffled by the fact that ZoS seems to do nothing at all to punish those scammers. I've decided i am out on this fraud untill a secure way of doing this trade is in the game.

Realistically, what do you expect ZOS to do?

We've got a secure in-game interface for regular trading between players and scams still happen.

Whether its gifting or regular scams, the situation still wind up handled by Support and, as with any disciplinary action, you'll never find out what action was taking against the scammer because ZOS cares a lot more about player privacy than they do about the desires of some people to see scammers punished. The scammers may well be punished...but you'll almost certainly never know.

So really, what are your expectations here?

NeroBad · February 2020

Aelorin wrote: »

I am still baffled by the fact that ZoS seems to do nothing at all to punish those scammers. I've decided i am out on this fraud untill a secure way of doing this trade is in the game.

I can relate, and it hurts ZOS also. If players buys more crwons via gifting it incrases ZOS revenue, by people who buys crowns just to sell it for gold (before that players could only buy gold via gold selling sites, where ZOS obtain 0 money), but if the system is full of scammers who don't get punished many buyers exit the market, which makes less crown purchase for ZOS.

NeroBad · February 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

Aelorin wrote: »

I am still baffled by the fact that ZoS seems to do nothing at all to punish those scammers. I've decided i am out on this fraud untill a secure way of doing this trade is in the game.

Realistically, what do you expect ZOS to do?

We've got a secure in-game interface for regular trading between players and scams still happen.

Whether its gifting or regular scams, the situation still wind up handled by Support and, as with any disciplinary action, you'll never find out what action was taking against the scammer because ZOS cares a lot more about player privacy than they do about the desires of some people to see scammers punished. The scammers may well be punished...but you'll almost certainly never know.

So really, what are your expectations here?

I know all the names who scammed me, yet I won't name them because it is prohibited. But what privacy is threatened if they answer me that action has been taken against the reported player (i had to name them for ZOS)? (they wrote it on forums when they punish people against dungeon exploit) After that I'm still prohibited to name them.

JamieAubrey · February 2020

This is why I'll take screenshots of us agreeing to buying/selling, take a screenshot of my crowns before and after and also when I send and they accepted the gift

NeroBad · February 2020

JamieAubrey wrote: »

This is why I'll take screenshots of us agreeing to buying/selling, take a screenshot of my crowns before and after and also when I send and they accepted the gift

@JamieAubrey May I ask did got scammed? If yes when was the last, and did you got positive answer from ZOS?

SpacemanSpiff1 · February 2020

Don't give gold to people you don't know. They're doing a crappy thing, but you're making yourself a mark.

CMDR_Un1k0rn · February 2020

I have sold Crowns. But I only sell within one of my guilds, and by one I mean literally the one guild.

Even then, I only sell to people of a certain rank and who I've spoken to before and gotten to know.

And if in the future it does go wrong... I acknowledge that the risk is mine.

myskyrim26 · February 2020

3 Why ZOS don't shut down ESO gold selling sites?

They don't own these sites, so how are they supposed to close them?

NeroBad · February 2020

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

Don't give gold to people you don't know. They're doing a crappy thing, but you're making yourself a mark.

@SpacemanSpiff1 Many real life issue could be avoided with caution, despite that society tries to improve law to make life more safe, without being always alerted. As there are legit transaction with strangers, many players try this with other strangers, make screenshoots, got scammed then report it, anfd get no answer from ZOS. I suggest if ZOS not in favor for these kind of transaction, then make it harder for scammers (for example by having to be freinds for atlest 10 days before gifting is possible).

Nevasca · February 2020

There is a guild with the whole purpose of avoiding scams and buying things from crown store, Tamriel Crown Exchange, here's their discord: https://discord.gg/mSVqry

Just enter discord and read the FAQ or ask someone for guidance in there, it's pretty simple.

I bought like 5 dlcs from them and never had an issue. Their pricing is usually a hit higher than randoms from zone chat but honestly the safety is worth the extra gold.

I wish ZOS instead made an official trade system for gifts and gold. Maybe even allow players to "gift" ESO+ (without the extra crowns) and made it possible to buy it with gold. That might help stabilize the inflated ESO economy a bit IMO.

NeroBad · February 2020

myskyrim26 wrote: »

3 Why ZOS don't shut down ESO gold selling sites?

They don't own these sites, so how are they supposed to close them?

@myskyrim26 as they use ZOS property (ingame gold) in a way which is prohibited in their TOS. Maybe the site can't be taken down, but by tracking down the sellers, they could make it unusable (I check them monthly, and calculate my gold worth just for fun, but beacuse they change their rate I assume they are active)

agegarton · February 2020

Crown gifting for in-game gold is allowed by ZoS - it’s a subject that has been covered more times than I care to mention.

If you don’t like that...... well, tough.

If you don’t like being “scammed” by unknown players, don’t deal with unknown players. There are plenty of guilds and large groups of guilds that work together to offer free intermediary services, usually by holding gold in a guild bank account until the buyer confirms that the Crown items were received.

As I understand it, ZoS has acted in the past on reports of players taken gold and then not provided the promised Crown items - nothing I can confirm, but that seems reasonable.

Narvuntien · February 2020

I have millions of gold so risking 800k for the kitty banker was worth it.

The banker has been great help for me so in don't regret it.

But typically you shouldn't do it from zone chat but only from your actual friends or reliable guildmates.

VaranisArano · February 2020

NeroBad wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Aelorin wrote: »

I am still baffled by the fact that ZoS seems to do nothing at all to punish those scammers. I've decided i am out on this fraud untill a secure way of doing this trade is in the game.

Realistically, what do you expect ZOS to do?

We've got a secure in-game interface for regular trading between players and scams still happen.

Whether its gifting or regular scams, the situation still wind up handled by Support and, as with any disciplinary action, you'll never find out what action was taking against the scammer because ZOS cares a lot more about player privacy than they do about the desires of some people to see scammers punished. The scammers may well be punished...but you'll almost certainly never know.

So really, what are your expectations here?

I know all the names who scammed me, yet I won't name them because it is prohibited. But what privacy is threatened if they answer me that action has been taken against the reported player (i had to name them for ZOS)? (they wrote it on forums when they punish people against dungeon exploit) After that I'm still prohibited to name them.

You might know who they are, but that doesn't entitle you to know what action was taken against an account that they own from an official source. That's the line ZOS has always drawn when it comes to privacy and disciplinary actions.

I know some people in PVP who've been reported for cheating and who just so happened to vanish about the time ZOS handed out temporary bans. That's not the same, legally, as ZOS straight up telling me "Yes, that person you reported has been punished."

Moreover, its a lot safer for the company that way. You say "Oh, I won't share the names because that's prohibited." But frankly, ZOS has no way of knowing that you'd respect that player's privacy! We've got plenty of examples where people don't because they aren't satisfied with how ZOS handled the matter. The last thing ZOS wants is for a disciplinary matter to escalate into the aggrieved player harassing the guilty party with evidence straight from ZOS confirming that someone's guilty.

Bottom line, you personally can have the best of intentions. Not everyone does, and ZOS has to set boundaries on player privacy that protect both the guilty and the innocent. Don't think of it in terms of what you personally would or wouldn't do. Think about it in terms of the worst-case scenario and liability, and then you'll start to see why ZOS sets the boundaries they do.

MEBengalsFan2001 · February 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

Crown Gifting for Gold is allowed by ZOS.

That being said, they deliberately ignored everyone on PTS who begged for a more sensible trading system, waited until after the launch to clarify that it was allowed, and seem content to handle scams in a piecemeal fashion as they arise instead of taking proactive steps to manage the trade.

Why?
I dunno.
1. It could be something to do with liability. Certainly its easier to wash their hands of it and let players handle the exchanges.
2. They might figure some players might trade crown gifts for less tangible things like trial runs, so how does ZOS regulate that?

As for goldsellers, talk about playing whack-a-mole.

If ZoS put into play a market place where players can buy crowns with gold in their system it would hurt the server performance. IMO a gift is a gift and ZoS can wash their hands of any issue when players try to swap gold for crowns. All ZoS has to state is that the system is for gifting which trading gold for crown items is not gifting according to normal gifting norms. A gift is something you give freely to someone else without wanting anything in return.

When I use the gift system in ESO I don't expect my friends to give me ANYTHING! I have given out mounts, costumes, etc... because a gift is just that a gift. Just like I have also passed along gold to friend using the mail system. Again, I don't expect anything in return.

A market place would be needed but if ESO gets this type of market place, I might as well be playing NWO.

jircris11 · February 2020

There IS a group that has actual trusted sellers for crowns. I recomend trying to find the thread buried on here.

starkerealm · February 2020

Aelorin wrote: »

I am still baffled by the fact that ZoS seems to do nothing at all to punish those scammers. I've decided i am out on this fraud untill a secure way of doing this trade is in the game.

As I recall, there's a specific warning, when you're scammed, that they'll only refund you a set number of times before you're on your own. It sounds like you kept going back for more without learning to adjust your risks.

JKorr · February 2020

NeroBad wrote: »

At the beginning of the gifting system ZOS was involved with the new gold to crown business by punishing scammers. As of now scammers are rampant in zone chats, and ZOS won't do anything about them, as gold to crown are not intended feature from ZOS. So with that attitude if you need gold you can just write WTS 5000 crown (place a believable rate considering
your megaserver) in zone chat, agree on half before half after, then after taking the before part, put the unlucky believer on your ignore list, and vanish with profit.

My latest ticket (200202-001462) is ignored as last time, I would require some answers from ZOS.

1 If Gifting was only intended as pure gifting between friends then, why won't ZOS put some day requirement for friends to be able to gift (how often it is that you add a new friend and want to gift them immediately if no gold involved )? with that preventing scammers to gain super quick money.

2 If crown seller scammers won't be punished (atleast I'm not informed about such cases anymore), what is the reason to not do the above written action (not counting human decency)?

3 Why ZOS don't shut down ESO gold selling sites? I see many of them are alive and online since 2016 (I started playing in 2016), I have a strong conviction that many scammers gather gold for selling it for real money. Now I can understand such behaviour - altough I would never do such things (scam, sell it for real money) -, by not showing or communicating action against crown seller scammers, and gold sellers for real money, ZOS encourage these actions.

And before obvious suggestions will be made.
I know discord servers are the safest place to do gold to crown - but not all players use or know these, and scammers actively promote themselfs in ingame zone chat.
I know low rates and low levels are redflags.
I know guild mates and long term friends are also a good alternative - but some guilds prohibit WTB including crowns, and it is not rare that none of your friends have sellable crowns.
I know crowns are there for 24/7 to purchase - but I have more gold that I need, and there are people who have more crowns that they need, also I spend more then 1% of my monthly earnings on ESO via ESO+ and some extra purchases every month, which is a lot if you think about it. And I know Crown Store items are mostly expensive cosmetics, which many of us would ignore if not for gifting, but with gifting we think that altough we would not spend 20 bucks on a mount but would spend 1-2 million gold for it.

Trustworthy gm and an escrow service. GM matches buyers with sellers. Buyers deposit gold with GM Sellers gift and tell the GM. Buyers receive the gift, and tell the GM transaction was completed. GM sends the gold.

NeroBad · February 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

NeroBad wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Aelorin wrote: »

I am still baffled by the fact that ZoS seems to do nothing at all to punish those scammers. I've decided i am out on this fraud untill a secure way of doing this trade is in the game.

Realistically, what do you expect ZOS to do?

We've got a secure in-game interface for regular trading between players and scams still happen.

Whether its gifting or regular scams, the situation still wind up handled by Support and, as with any disciplinary action, you'll never find out what action was taking against the scammer because ZOS cares a lot more about player privacy than they do about the desires of some people to see scammers punished. The scammers may well be punished...but you'll almost certainly never know.

So really, what are your expectations here?

I know all the names who scammed me, yet I won't name them because it is prohibited. But what privacy is threatened if they answer me that action has been taken against the reported player (i had to name them for ZOS)? (they wrote it on forums when they punish people against dungeon exploit) After that I'm still prohibited to name them.

You might know who they are, but that doesn't entitle you to know what action was taken against an account that they own from an official source. That's the line ZOS has always drawn when it comes to privacy and disciplinary actions.

I know some people in PVP who've been reported for cheating and who just so happened to vanish about the time ZOS handed out temporary bans. That's not the same, legally, as ZOS straight up telling me "Yes, that person you reported has been punished."

Moreover, its a lot safer for the company that way. You say "Oh, I won't share the names because that's prohibited." But frankly, ZOS has no way of knowing that you'd respect that player's privacy! We've got plenty of examples where people don't because they aren't satisfied with how ZOS handled the matter. The last thing ZOS wants is for a disciplinary matter to escalate into the aggrieved player harassing the guilty party with evidence straight from ZOS confirming that someone's guilty.

Bottom line, you personally can have the best of intentions. Not everyone does, and ZOS has to set boundaries on player privacy that protect both the guilty and the innocent. Don't think of it in terms of what you personally would or wouldn't do. Think about it in terms of the worst-case scenario and liability, and then you'll start to see why ZOS sets the boundaries they do.

@VaranisArano Fair point there. Then I would like to ZOS to make such action - offering Crown selling services/Crown buying services and not complete agreed transaction after accepting payment (as simultaneous transaction is not possoble) - is against ESO TOS. With that atleast I would think it is somewhat on support's choice to take action (in the end I won't know and they can deny me request, but naive me would think otherwise).

redlink1979 · February 2020

Agree with all the requirements described above:

- ALWAYS check trader's level -> and on console you can check their gaming profile (scammers usually use low level accounts created exclusively for the scamming purpose)
- preferably trade with reliable friends or guild mates, if the trading is allowed in the guild(s) you are in.
- If you are really willing to take the risk to trade with someone you don't/barely know, be prepared to make screenshots or record a vid.

PS - In my pov, this trading method has an odd conflict: ZOS doesn't allow in-game trading with real money, but then crowns (an in-game currency) can be purchased with... real money.

JamieAubrey · February 2020

NeroBad wrote: »

JamieAubrey wrote: »

This is why I'll take screenshots of us agreeing to buying/selling, take a screenshot of my crowns before and after and also when I send and they accepted the gift

@JamieAubrey May I ask did got scammed? If yes when was the last, and did you got positive answer from ZOS?

@NeroBad I haven't yet but I'm always weary when people ask in zone

Donny_Vito · February 2020

Sorry to hear about it.

On Xbox, I always check a persons GamerTag when I see they are selling crowns. This is not a 100% way of determining their intentions, but when someone has a real low gamer score (indicating they are likely a new account) I advise my friends to stay away. If they have a high score, I assume they have invested into that account (and most likely not risking it) as there is always a chance that account is going to get banned for scamming. Again, these are not fool-proof but they help me weed out potential scammers.

starkerealm · February 2020

JKorr wrote: »

Trustworthy gm and an escrow service. GM matches buyers with sellers. Buyers deposit gold with GM Sellers gift and tell the GM. Buyers receive the gift, and tell the GM transaction was completed. GM sends the gold.

ZOS has no interest in that because the purpose of the system is giving things, not trading them.

If ZOS wanted to facilitate secure transactions, there are many, less intensive, ways to do it, including adding crowns and crown store items to the guild trader system.

This replaced a situation where gifting an item to a friend required contacting customer support, progressing with the ticket, and required manual action on each gift.