about delays in Guild Trader swap.

  • Tyralbin
    Tyralbin
    ✭✭✭✭
    Jayne_Doe wrote: »
    x48rph wrote: »
    You know I just honestly don't get it. I can understand having problems with different platforms but like PCEU and PCNA should be pretty much running the same code so how these problems always hit EU but yet not NA is pretty baffling to me.

    The capacity at peak times is much higher on EU as the vast majority of players are from EU as you would expect.

    NA as a continent has a lower player base but their numbers are bumped up to same, possibly more than EU when you add in the RotW, e.g. Asian player base. But they come online at a different times so it's a smoother demand on the servers and their backend systems. That said they have had years to fix it so no excuses really.

    A larger factor is the 4 different time zones in NA. If, say, peak time is 8pm-10pm (just using an example here), then while it's prime time on the East Coast, it's 5pm-7pm on the West Coast, where many are still at work or getting off work, having dinner, etc. When they do finally get into their prime time of 8pm-10pm, the East Coast is largely offline (it being 11pm-1am there). Central Time is starting to wind down (10pm-12am) and Mountain is in the middle of prime time (9pm-11pm).

    As ZOS has stated previously, it's the higher concurrency that's a larger issue for PC-EU. I'm guessing trader bids happen during peak times on PC-EU? If so, then that's a significant part of it, coupled with a larger population base. Multi-bidding I'm sure has also made things worse. So, peak time on Sunday with trader bids that now incorporate calculating multiple bids.

    It is possible that all of this makes PC-EU more vulnerable. Regardless, ZOS need to find a solution for the PC-EU community. If they don't, then it may not be long before it's one of the smallest.

    Right, it sounds like, to me, EU trader change happens right smack dab in prime gaming time on a Sunday for Europe. With XBox and PS4, it seems those communities are smaller and, thus, not impacted by it. But with PC EU already struggling as it is, this just complicates things.

    Compared to NA, where swap occurs at 8pm Eastern for me currently (9pm Eastern when Daylight Savings Time is in effect), it's more spread out for traffic, even given a Sunday is loaded up with the normal Monday-Friday 9am-5pm workers getting their last fix in for the weekend.

    Back before multi-bidding launched, when many trading guild GMs were expressing concerns, I seem to recall @ZOS_GinaBruno saying that a possible idea on the table was changing trader flip to a less loaded day/time? Gina, please correct me if my memory fails on this. But I remember someone somewhere bringing it up because, at the time, I was opposed to the day/time changing (not realizing it had been on Monday morning before it was changed to Sunday evening). Old habits die hard and I had been ingrained with being online at flip in case a bid lost, to try and find an open to hire. With multi-bidding, that is literally no longer a thing - between peace of mind of placing multiple backup bids plus observing that there ARE no opens for hire anymore.

    I wonder if doing trader flip during a weekday morning (non-peak time for all) would aid in resolving this issue? Plus, I do not know how ZOS staffs - perhaps they have a full crew available for service at all hours and days of the week - but if they are more heavily staffed during the week with a smaller weekend crew, shifting the day/time means possibly more folks on staff to spot and fix an issue. Plus, poor Gina getting pinged during normal working hours rather than on Sunday afternoon. ;)
    Jayne_Doe wrote: »
    x48rph wrote: »
    You know I just honestly don't get it. I can understand having problems with different platforms but like PCEU and PCNA should be pretty much running the same code so how these problems always hit EU but yet not NA is pretty baffling to me.

    The capacity at peak times is much higher on EU as the vast majority of players are from EU as you would expect.

    NA as a continent has a lower player base but their numbers are bumped up to same, possibly more than EU when you add in the RotW, e.g. Asian player base. But they come online at a different times so it's a smoother demand on the servers and their backend systems. That said they have had years to fix it so no excuses really.

    A larger factor is the 4 different time zones in NA. If, say, peak time is 8pm-10pm (just using an example here), then while it's prime time on the East Coast, it's 5pm-7pm on the West Coast, where many are still at work or getting off work, having dinner, etc. When they do finally get into their prime time of 8pm-10pm, the East Coast is largely offline (it being 11pm-1am there). Central Time is starting to wind down (10pm-12am) and Mountain is in the middle of prime time (9pm-11pm).

    As ZOS has stated previously, it's the higher concurrency that's a larger issue for PC-EU. I'm guessing trader bids happen during peak times on PC-EU? If so, then that's a significant part of it, coupled with a larger population base. Multi-bidding I'm sure has also made things worse. So, peak time on Sunday with trader bids that now incorporate calculating multiple bids.

    It is possible that all of this makes PC-EU more vulnerable. Regardless, ZOS need to find a solution for the PC-EU community. If they don't, then it may not be long before it's one of the smallest.

    Right, it sounds like, to me, EU trader change happens right smack dab in prime gaming time on a Sunday for Europe. With XBox and PS4, it seems those communities are smaller and, thus, not impacted by it. But with PC EU already struggling as it is, this just complicates things.

    Compared to NA, where swap occurs at 8pm Eastern for me currently (9pm Eastern when Daylight Savings Time is in effect), it's more spread out for traffic, even given a Sunday is loaded up with the normal Monday-Friday 9am-5pm workers getting their last fix in for the weekend.

    Back before multi-bidding launched, when many trading guild GMs were expressing concerns, I seem to recall @ZOS_GinaBruno saying that a possible idea on the table was changing trader flip to a less loaded day/time? Gina, please correct me if my memory fails on this. But I remember someone somewhere bringing it up because, at the time, I was opposed to the day/time changing (not realizing it had been on Monday morning before it was changed to Sunday evening). Old habits die hard and I had been ingrained with being online at flip in case a bid lost, to try and find an open to hire. With multi-bidding, that is literally no longer a thing - between peace of mind of placing multiple backup bids plus observing that there ARE no opens for hire anymore.

    I wonder if doing trader flip during a weekday morning (non-peak time for all) would aid in resolving this issue? Plus, I do not know how ZOS staffs - perhaps they have a full crew available for service at all hours and days of the week - but if they are more heavily staffed during the week with a smaller weekend crew, shifting the day/time means possibly more folks on staff to spot and fix an issue. Plus, poor Gina getting pinged during normal working hours rather than on Sunday afternoon. ;)
    Jayne_Doe wrote: »
    x48rph wrote: »
    You know I just honestly don't get it. I can understand having problems with different platforms but like PCEU and PCNA should be pretty much running the same code so how these problems always hit EU but yet not NA is pretty baffling to me.

    The capacity at peak times is much higher on EU as the vast majority of players are from EU as you would expect.

    NA as a continent has a lower player base but their numbers are bumped up to same, possibly more than EU when you add in the RotW, e.g. Asian player base. But they come online at a different times so it's a smoother demand on the servers and their backend systems. That said they have had years to fix it so no excuses really.

    A larger factor is the 4 different time zones in NA. If, say, peak time is 8pm-10pm (just using an example here), then while it's prime time on the East Coast, it's 5pm-7pm on the West Coast, where many are still at work or getting off work, having dinner, etc. When they do finally get into their prime time of 8pm-10pm, the East Coast is largely offline (it being 11pm-1am there). Central Time is starting to wind down (10pm-12am) and Mountain is in the middle of prime time (9pm-11pm).

    As ZOS has stated previously, it's the higher concurrency that's a larger issue for PC-EU. I'm guessing trader bids happen during peak times on PC-EU? If so, then that's a significant part of it, coupled with a larger population base. Multi-bidding I'm sure has also made things worse. So, peak time on Sunday with trader bids that now incorporate calculating multiple bids.

    It is possible that all of this makes PC-EU more vulnerable. Regardless, ZOS need to find a solution for the PC-EU community. If they don't, then it may not be long before it's one of the smallest.

    Right, it sounds like, to me, EU trader change happens right smack dab in prime gaming time on a Sunday for Europe. With XBox and PS4, it seems those communities are smaller and, thus, not impacted by it. But with PC EU already struggling as it is, this just complicates things.

    Compared to NA, where swap occurs at 8pm Eastern for me currently (9pm Eastern when Daylight Savings Time is in effect), it's more spread out for traffic, even given a Sunday is loaded up with the normal Monday-Friday 9am-5pm workers getting their last fix in for the weekend.

    Back before multi-bidding launched, when many trading guild GMs were expressing concerns, I seem to recall @ZOS_GinaBruno saying that a possible idea on the table was changing trader flip to a less loaded day/time? Gina, please correct me if my memory fails on this. But I remember someone somewhere bringing it up because, at the time, I was opposed to the day/time changing (not realizing it had been on Monday morning before it was changed to Sunday evening). Old habits die hard and I had been ingrained with being online at flip in case a bid lost, to try and find an open to hire. With multi-bidding, that is literally no longer a thing - between peace of mind of placing multiple backup bids plus observing that there ARE no opens for hire anymore.

    I wonder if doing trader flip during a weekday morning (non-peak time for all) would aid in resolving this issue? Plus, I do not know how ZOS staffs - perhaps they have a full crew available for service at all hours and days of the week - but if they are more heavily staffed during the week with a smaller weekend crew, shifting the day/time means possibly more folks on staff to spot and fix an issue. Plus, poor Gina getting pinged during normal working hours rather than on Sunday afternoon. ;)
    Jayne_Doe wrote: »
    x48rph wrote: »
    You know I just honestly don't get it. I can understand having problems with different platforms but like PCEU and PCNA should be pretty much running the same code so how these problems always hit EU but yet not NA is pretty baffling to me.

    The capacity at peak times is much higher on EU as the vast majority of players are from EU as you would expect.

    NA as a continent has a lower player base but their numbers are bumped up to same, possibly more than EU when you add in the RotW, e.g. Asian player base. But they come online at a different times so it's a smoother demand on the servers and their backend systems. That said they have had years to fix it so no excuses really.

    A larger factor is the 4 different time zones in NA. If, say, peak time is 8pm-10pm (just using an example here), then while it's prime time on the East Coast, it's 5pm-7pm on the West Coast, where many are still at work or getting off work, having dinner, etc. When they do finally get into their prime time of 8pm-10pm, the East Coast is largely offline (it being 11pm-1am there). Central Time is starting to wind down (10pm-12am) and Mountain is in the middle of prime time (9pm-11pm).

    As ZOS has stated previously, it's the higher concurrency that's a larger issue for PC-EU. I'm guessing trader bids happen during peak times on PC-EU? If so, then that's a significant part of it, coupled with a larger population base. Multi-bidding I'm sure has also made things worse. So, peak time on Sunday with trader bids that now incorporate calculating multiple bids.

    It is possible that all of this makes PC-EU more vulnerable. Regardless, ZOS need to find a solution for the PC-EU community. If they don't, then it may not be long before it's one of the smallest.

    Right, it sounds like, to me, EU trader change happens right smack dab in prime gaming time on a Sunday for Europe. With XBox and PS4, it seems those communities are smaller and, thus, not impacted by it. But with PC EU already struggling as it is, this just complicates things.

    Compared to NA, where swap occurs at 8pm Eastern for me currently (9pm Eastern when Daylight Savings Time is in effect), it's more spread out for traffic, even given a Sunday is loaded up with the normal Monday-Friday 9am-5pm workers getting their last fix in for the weekend.

    Back before multi-bidding launched, when many trading guild GMs were expressing concerns, I seem to recall @ZOS_GinaBruno saying that a possible idea on the table was changing trader flip to a less loaded day/time? Gina, please correct me if my memory fails on this. But I remember someone somewhere bringing it up because, at the time, I was opposed to the day/time changing (not realizing it had been on Monday morning before it was changed to Sunday evening). Old habits die hard and I had been ingrained with being online at flip in case a bid lost, to try and find an open to hire. With multi-bidding, that is literally no longer a thing - between peace of mind of placing multiple backup bids plus observing that there ARE no opens for hire anymore.

    I wonder if doing trader flip during a weekday morning (non-peak time for all) would aid in resolving this issue? Plus, I do not know how ZOS staffs - perhaps they have a full crew available for service at all hours and days of the week - but if they are more heavily staffed during the week with a smaller weekend crew, shifting the day/time means possibly more folks on staff to spot and fix an issue. Plus, poor Gina getting pinged during normal working hours rather than on Sunday afternoon. ;)
    Jayne_Doe wrote: »
    x48rph wrote: »
    You know I just honestly don't get it. I can understand having problems with different platforms but like PCEU and PCNA should be pretty much running the same code so how these problems always hit EU but yet not NA is pretty baffling to me.

    The capacity at peak times is much higher on EU as the vast majority of players are from EU as you would expect.

    NA as a continent has a lower player base but their numbers are bumped up to same, possibly more than EU when you add in the RotW, e.g. Asian player base. But they come online at a different times so it's a smoother demand on the servers and their backend systems. That said they have had years to fix it so no excuses really.

    A larger factor is the 4 different time zones in NA. If, say, peak time is 8pm-10pm (just using an example here), then while it's prime time on the East Coast, it's 5pm-7pm on the West Coast, where many are still at work or getting off work, having dinner, etc. When they do finally get into their prime time of 8pm-10pm, the East Coast is largely offline (it being 11pm-1am there). Central Time is starting to wind down (10pm-12am) and Mountain is in the middle of prime time (9pm-11pm).

    As ZOS has stated previously, it's the higher concurrency that's a larger issue for PC-EU. I'm guessing trader bids happen during peak times on PC-EU? If so, then that's a significant part of it, coupled with a larger population base. Multi-bidding I'm sure has also made things worse. So, peak time on Sunday with trader bids that now incorporate calculating multiple bids.

    It is possible that all of this makes PC-EU more vulnerable. Regardless, ZOS need to find a solution for the PC-EU community. If they don't, then it may not be long before it's one of the smallest.

    Right, it sounds like, to me, EU trader change happens right smack dab in prime gaming time on a Sunday for Europe. With XBox and PS4, it seems those communities are smaller and, thus, not impacted by it. But with PC EU already struggling as it is, this just complicates things.

    Compared to NA, where swap occurs at 8pm Eastern for me currently (9pm Eastern when Daylight Savings Time is in effect), it's more spread out for traffic, even given a Sunday is loaded up with the normal Monday-Friday 9am-5pm workers getting their last fix in for the weekend.

    Back before multi-bidding launched, when many trading guild GMs were expressing concerns, I seem to recall @ZOS_GinaBruno saying that a possible idea on the table was changing trader flip to a less loaded day/time? Gina, please correct me if my memory fails on this. But I remember someone somewhere bringing it up because, at the time, I was opposed to the day/time changing (not realizing it had been on Monday morning before it was changed to Sunday evening). Old habits die hard and I had been ingrained with being online at flip in case a bid lost, to try and find an open to hire. With multi-bidding, that is literally no longer a thing - between peace of mind of placing multiple backup bids plus observing that there ARE no opens for hire anymore.

    I wonder if doing trader flip during a weekday morning (non-peak time for all) would aid in resolving this issue? Plus, I do not know how ZOS staffs - perhaps they have a full crew available for service at all hours and days of the week - but if they are more heavily staffed during the week with a smaller weekend crew, shifting the day/time means possibly more folks on staff to spot and fix an issue. Plus, poor Gina getting pinged during normal working hours rather than on Sunday afternoon. ;)

    It used to be done @ 4am UTC (cannot remember precise day but think it was Tuesday mornings). When they changed to the current time I said it would cause issues.

    Maybe it is time to revert back to a less busy time on the EU server.
    Live a little love a lot send all your gold to this Imperials pot.
  • ZOS_JessicaFolsom
    ZOS_JessicaFolsom
    Community Manager
    We wanted to give everyone an update on the guild trader swap issue that occurred on the PC-EU server last couple weekends.

    We made a few adjustments this week that should help – with a few more in progress – but there is still a chance the issue could occur again this weekend. Our Engineers will be watching the switch-over and we are prepared to resolve the issue on Monday morning if it happens again, just like we did this week. Thank you all for your continued patience.
    Jessica Folsom
    Senior Community Manager (English) - The Elder Scrolls Online
    Facebook | Twitter | Twitch | Tumblr | Instagram | YouTube | Support
    Staff Post
  • sirinsidiator
    sirinsidiator
    ✭✭✭✭
    It's great to hear you are committed to resolving this very annoying issue!
    I do wonder however what you plan to do to help the guilds that get negatively affected by this. Loosing some of the most important hours of the weekly income (e.g. when a guild won a trader in a prime location and had no kiosk before) is nothing to laugh at with the way the multi-bid system has changed the game. In general it's currently a difficult time for casual trading guilds with the way bids have skyrocketed and I see more and more either close down or are forced to ask their members for additional gold and introduce minimum sales to keep afloat.
  • Gythral
    Gythral
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    We wanted to give everyone an update on the guild trader swap issue that occurred on the PC-EU server last couple weekends.

    We made a few adjustments this week that should help – with a few more in progress – but there is still a chance the issue could occur again this weekend. Our Engineers will be watching the switch-over and we are prepared to resolve the issue on Monday morning if it happens again, just like we did this week. Thank you all for your continued patience.

    Too late
    Ths isissue NEEDS to be resolve withi 15 mins of the change over - END OF
    Yes this means some 'engineers' need to work on a Sunday (and maybe a Sunday night)
    You set this time, live with it or move it to a week day afternoon for your staff, so thuere's a chance to look at and fix in a timely fashion

    “Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
    Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
    Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy
  • daemonios
    daemonios
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    We wanted to give everyone an update on the guild trader swap issue that occurred on the PC-EU server last couple weekends.

    We made a few adjustments this week that should help – with a few more in progress – but there is still a chance the issue could occur again this weekend. Our Engineers will be watching the switch-over and we are prepared to resolve the issue on Monday morning if it happens again, just like we did this week. Thank you all for your continued patience.

    Why does this happen only on PC-EU? If it's because of server load, why aren't you increasing server capacity, since there seem to be several issues tied to this? If server capacity can't be realistically fixed, why haven't you moved the hand-off time for guild traders so it doesn't fall smack in the middle of EU peak time on a weekend? Last week's Monday fix required down time, in addition to the normal scheduled maintenance. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that PC-EU players don't take very kindly to more down time when ours is the most unstable, most underperforming of all six servers.

    I appreciate the update, but I honestly don't think it addresses the substantial issues.
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