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about delays in Guild Trader swap.

  • x48rph
    x48rph
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    You know I just honestly don't get it. I can understand having problems with different platforms but like PCEU and PCNA should be pretty much running the same code so how these problems always hit EU but yet not NA is pretty baffling to me.
  • OsManiaC
    OsManiaC
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    Kind Thanks, @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

    I know *cough* a guy in PC EU if you need any additional data - trust me no one compares him :|
    GM of The Argonian Kebab, The Argonian Steak & The Argonian BBQ - PC - EU (The Tamriel Kitchen) @OsManiaC

    Don't worry, the tail grows back!
    if it breathes we eats. #justbosmerthings - we can detect stealth boy NPCs and hunt them thanks to our skill!

    https://steamcommunity.com/id/osmaniac
  • Gariele
    Gariele
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    Winter Rose- Won spot, Clockwork City, was there previous week. All good

    Autumn Rose- Won Spot, on wrong trader, Hew's Bane, On Snegbug should be on Shiny-Trades

    Summer Rose- Won spot, Kvatch Gold Coast, was there previous week, All good

    Pacific Rose- Won spot, on wrong trader, Senchal, on Golgakul should be on Wusava
    Edited by Gariele on February 2, 2020 9:47PM
    PC/EU
    Winter Rose Autumn Rose Summer Rose Pacific Rose Midnight Rose
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  • chess1ukb16_ESO
    chess1ukb16_ESO
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    x48rph wrote: »
    You know I just honestly don't get it. I can understand having problems with different platforms but like PCEU and PCNA should be pretty much running the same code so how these problems always hit EU but yet not NA is pretty baffling to me.

    The capacity at peak times is much higher on EU as the vast majority of players are from EU as you would expect.

    NA as a continent has a lower player base but their numbers are bumped up to same, possibly more than EU when you add in the RotW, e.g. Asian player base. But they come online at a different times so it's a smoother demand on the servers and their backend systems. That said they have had years to fix it so no excuses really.

    Ireniicus
    GM - Tamriel Traders Guild (TTG); Divine Deals; Allmart & The Alchemist Emporium
  • JN_Slevin
    JN_Slevin
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    x48rph wrote: »
    You know I just honestly don't get it. I can understand having problems with different platforms but like PCEU and PCNA should be pretty much running the same code so how these problems always hit EU but yet not NA is pretty baffling to me.

    The capacity at peak times is much higher on EU as the vast majority of players are from EU as you would expect.

    NA as a continent has a lower player base but their numbers are bumped up to same, possibly more than EU when you add in the RotW, e.g. Asian player base. But they come online at a different times so it's a smoother demand on the servers and their backend systems. That said they have had years to fix it so no excuses really.

    What i don't understand is that its just stuck. If it takes 10-20 Minutes that would be weird, but not many people would complain. But its almost like the code says "nope" and just doesnt do anything anymore.

    I would (again) just say close the bidding process half an hour earlier and let it process in the background. If all goes well open it up to the public, if not sound some alarm bells somewhere that somebody can do something.... Those guys would still have almost 25-30 Minutes to respond.

    You can even go as far as close the bidding at 1pm. Most people don't bid on sundays anyway..
    Edited by JN_Slevin on February 2, 2020 9:56PM
    Work hard, and you will be rewarded. Spend wisely, and you will be comfortable. Never steal, or you will be punished.
  • Brandathorbel
    Brandathorbel
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    Hi all,

    We just put up maintenance messaging for tomorrow morning to address this. May we get guild names for a few guilds that were affected by this, including the name of the guild trader you were supposed to have won (preferably a different one than your guild has now)? That will help us with our investigation of this issue and the related fix.

    Thank you!

    hi, thanks but you need to stop "maintaining" and start repairing which it seems is something you guys are struggling with. I think you need to spend some of the 100s of millions of dollars your customers have given you and start using it to hire third party staff that could actually fix these issues.
  • SantieClaws
    SantieClaws
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    We do not know though if this particular issue has anything to do with population load or perhaps a flaw in the multibidding system or something else altogether.

    When Rosie the orc broke her foot playing with a large rock we simply applied sticky tape and the rock was almost as good as new. This one thinks perhaps the tape for this problem needs to be very sticky indeed though.

    Yours with paws
    Santie Claws



    Edited by SantieClaws on February 2, 2020 10:00PM
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  • EllieBlue
    EllieBlue
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    Nirn Traders

    Bid Won: Razgugul in Mournhold
    Currently still in Windhelm with Deras Golathyn.

    Thank you.
    Nirn Traders GM (est 2015)
    PC EU
    Semi-retired. Playing games for fun. Super casual.
  • LMar
    LMar
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    Seemw like all guild traders were affected
    Cant list all of them here, plus some GMs are already asleep or not checking forums!
    "If a stick of fish is a fish stick, it will stick like other fish sticks stick"
    "Taller races now sit in chairs correctly"
  • GoddessExile
    GoddessExile
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    Guild: The Camel Smugglers
    won kiosk Goh, Elden Root - Grahtwood, but still on Shuhasa, Belkarth - Craglorn
    Founder & GM The Camel Smugglers Trade Guild.

    Need something smuggled? just ask .... after we are done, this conversation never took place
  • Minghash
    Minghash
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    TAMRIEL TRADING TEAM

    Last weeks trader was Harzdak in Coldharbour and we are still on it.
    Got a 'bid won' mail but that does not state which trader was won so I don't know where TTT is supposed to be.
    Refunds for the other 9 bids have not arrived yet.
  • agegarton
    agegarton
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    Thanks @ZOS_GinaBruno and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom - as requested:

    Burnish & Gleam won at Mizul in Elden Root.

    We remain at Carillda in Vulhel Guard.

    Guild history shows gold taken for our bid against Mizul.
  • Llaerdan
    Llaerdan
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    The February 5th maintenance is not canceled?
    Two maintenances in one week...
  • SammiSakura
    SammiSakura
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    Adding ours in too:
    • Brave Cat Trade: Won Kiosk in Lilmoth, Murkmire (Mahadal at-Bergama), still remains in Wayrest, Stormhaven (Estilldo)
    • Demonic Baanditos: Lost bid, so no kiosk, still remains in Lilmoth, Murkmire (Xokomar)
    Really appreciate the communication here though, great stuff. Now just hoping that all these issues get fixed. They're an essential part of the community here!
    Edited by SammiSakura on February 2, 2020 11:46PM
    @SammiSakura - EU Server - CP 1600+ - Here Since 14th October 2016
    Visit my home at the Alinor Townhouse
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    Guildmaster of The Forbidden Guilds (PC EU)
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  • AlnilamE
    AlnilamE
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    x48rph wrote: »
    You know I just honestly don't get it. I can understand having problems with different platforms but like PCEU and PCNA should be pretty much running the same code so how these problems always hit EU but yet not NA is pretty baffling to me.

    NA trader switch doesn't happen for another 40 minutes, so that's why you haven't heard from us yet. (I do hope it works, though)
    The Moot Councillor
  • MissBizz
    MissBizz
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    AlnilamE wrote: »
    x48rph wrote: »
    You know I just honestly don't get it. I can understand having problems with different platforms but like PCEU and PCNA should be pretty much running the same code so how these problems always hit EU but yet not NA is pretty baffling to me.

    NA trader switch doesn't happen for another 40 minutes, so that's why you haven't heard from us yet. (I do hope it works, though)

    in the past when theirs has failed though, ours normally works.
    Lone Wolf HelpFor the solo players who know, sometimes you just need a hand.PC | NA | AD-DC-EP | Discord
  • Varana
    Varana
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    Cani wrote: »
    x48rph wrote: »
    You know I just honestly don't get it. I can understand having problems with different platforms but like PCEU and PCNA should be pretty much running the same code so how these problems always hit EU but yet not NA is pretty baffling to me.

    The capacity at peak times is much higher on EU as the vast majority of players are from EU as you would expect.

    NA as a continent has a lower player base but their numbers are bumped up to same, possibly more than EU when you add in the RotW, e.g. Asian player base. But they come online at a different times so it's a smoother demand on the servers and their backend systems. That said they have had years to fix it so no excuses really.

    What i don't understand is that its just stuck. If it takes 10-20 Minutes that would be weird, but not many people would complain. But its almost like the code says "nope" and just doesnt do anything anymore.

    I would (again) just say close the bidding process half an hour earlier and let it process in the background. If all goes well open it up to the public, if not sound some alarm bells somewhere that somebody can do something.... Those guys would still have almost 25-30 Minutes to respond.

    You can even go as far as close the bidding at 1pm. Most people don't bid on sundays anyway..

    This is a complete guess in the dark, but I suspect that the behaviour tonight is the result of them adding a failsafe procedure like this. Last time when the server decided to /playdead right in the middle of an ongoing trader swap, all sorts of weird stuff happened randomly, with some guilds affected, others not, or some getting double or half their money back, and whatever.
    This time, one part of the swap worked (resolving the bids, apparently also refunds), the other did not (actually transferring the trader to their new owners). But they worked and didn't work for all guilds affected. So the server didn't stop working mid-process, the part where it gave up didn't go public at all. This is much easier to resolve than last time's catastrophe.
    Or they were unbelievably lucky in that the server committed seppuku exactly at the best possible time. I hope it's the former. :D
  • FierceSam
    FierceSam
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    This thread is important.

    It really should be pinned.

  • Tyralbin
    Tyralbin
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    How about turning off the ZOS portion of the tax (and redirecting it straight to guild) so guilds can recuperate some of the lost gold for a 24 hour period?

    Or equivalent to the downtime for correct traders which in this case would be 19 hours approx.
    Live a little love a lot send all your gold to this Imperials pot.
  • nightstrike
    nightstrike
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    When Rosie the orc broke her foot playing with a large rock we simply applied sticky tape and the rock was almost as good as new. This one thinks perhaps the tape for this problem needs to be very sticky indeed though.

    Yours with paws
    Santie Claws

    They need to hire you to write side quests....
    Warning: This signature is tiny!
  • Darkstorne
    Darkstorne
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    Llaerdan wrote: »
    The February 5th maintenance is not canceled?
    Two maintenances in one week...
    Even if it maintenance was scheduled for today anyway, this exact issue caused last week's maintenance to take roughly twice as long.

    I'm glad to see ZOS staff so active in this thread though. That shows they realize how big a problem this is :smile:
  • EC_Rob
    EC_Rob
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    Hi all,

    We just put up maintenance messaging for tomorrow morning to address this. May we get guild names for a few guilds that were affected by this, including the name of the guild trader you were supposed to have won (preferably a different one than your guild has now)? That will help us with our investigation of this issue and the related fix.

    Thank you!

    Hi,

    Nirn Traders. Bid won in Mournhold at Razgugul, still stuck in Windelm.
    @EC_Rob
    GM of Nirn Traders (PC-EU)
    GM of Aetherius Trade (PC-EU)
    GM of Sovngarde Traders (PC-EU)

    Keep it causal, enjoy your games.
    Kill in good spirit, die in good spirit.

    Magicka Templar since 2014. Breton master race forever.
  • daemonios
    daemonios
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    Darkstorne wrote: »
    Llaerdan wrote: »
    The February 5th maintenance is not canceled?
    Two maintenances in one week...
    Even if it maintenance was scheduled for today anyway, this exact issue caused last week's maintenance to take roughly twice as long.

    I'm glad to see ZOS staff so active in this thread though. That shows they realize how big a problem this is :smile:

    How does that help if they can't or don't fix it? By my reckoning it's the third time they screw the pooch with guild trader transfers on PC-EU and only on PC-EU. Not the first. Not even the second. Not only have they not fixed the issue, it happens on just one out of a total of six servers. Coincidentally (or not), it's the same server that has more downtime than any other, and where more people complain about performance. I don't really see what there is to be glad about that they are posting a couple of sentences in a thread.
  • JPS
    JPS
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    This is not a bug. Like everything else, it's a feature :|
  • Darkstorne
    Darkstorne
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    daemonios wrote: »
    Darkstorne wrote: »
    Llaerdan wrote: »
    The February 5th maintenance is not canceled?
    Two maintenances in one week...
    Even if it maintenance was scheduled for today anyway, this exact issue caused last week's maintenance to take roughly twice as long.

    I'm glad to see ZOS staff so active in this thread though. That shows they realize how big a problem this is :smile:

    How does that help if they can't or don't fix it? By my reckoning it's the third time they screw the pooch with guild trader transfers on PC-EU and only on PC-EU. Not the first. Not even the second. Not only have they not fixed the issue, it happens on just one out of a total of six servers. Coincidentally (or not), it's the same server that has more downtime than any other, and where more people complain about performance. I don't really see what there is to be glad about that they are posting a couple of sentences in a thread.
    I'm being optimistic :tongue: I mean compared to most threads about performance issues, server latency etc, it's good to see they care about this issue enough to be posting here. That's a good sign they're taking this seriously.
  • SammiSakura
    SammiSakura
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    Can anyone confirm things are fixed yet?
    @SammiSakura - EU Server - CP 1600+ - Here Since 14th October 2016
    Visit my home at the Alinor Townhouse
    Guildhall with All Set-Stations etc at Grand Psijic Villa


    Guildmaster of The Forbidden Guilds (PC EU)
    ~ The Forbidden Cleavage (in Elden Root, Grahtwood)
    ~ Brave Cat Trade (in Alinor, Summerset)
    ~ Demonic Baanditos (PvE/Social Guild, in Markarth, The Reach)
    PM @SammiSakura In-Game for Invites.

    Curator & Middleman of Crown Black Market Crown Trading Discord
    Click Here to Join & Start Trading Today!
    My Characters!
    * Samara Nevanni - Dunmer MagDK DD (PvE/P) (Master Crafter)
    * Adriana Silvani - Altmer MagSorc DD (PvE)
    * Tsanji-Ko - Khajiit StamDen DD (PvE)
    * Waits-For-Darkness - Argonian MagPlar Healer (PvE)
    * Lilith Valeine - Breton MagPlar DD (PvP)
    * Luna Rosalie - Bosmer StamBlade DD (PvP)
    * Mithrandir the Healer - Nord Magden Healer (PvE)
    * Talia Scythe-Song - Redguard Necro Tank (PvE)
    * Loki the Theif - Khajiit MagBlade (PvE)
  • Langdon64
    Langdon64
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    Global Auction House. There. Fixed it for you, ZOS.
  • Fiktius
    Fiktius
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    Can anyone confirm things are fixed yet?

    Well, what I observed earlier today, looking good so far:
    My own guilds were lucky to win same spots which they were at last week, so 0 difference there.
    However I did notice that many guilds which were stuck at inaccurate trader location moved today successfully to trader locations where bids were won.

    Also what comes with my own guilds, there were no dube gold in the bank and we didn't get charged twice our winning bids.
    I don't know about others tho, but I assume that reports whould show up early if there is something still wrong.
    Edited by Fiktius on February 3, 2020 4:30PM
  • Jayne_Doe
    Jayne_Doe
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    x48rph wrote: »
    You know I just honestly don't get it. I can understand having problems with different platforms but like PCEU and PCNA should be pretty much running the same code so how these problems always hit EU but yet not NA is pretty baffling to me.

    The capacity at peak times is much higher on EU as the vast majority of players are from EU as you would expect.

    NA as a continent has a lower player base but their numbers are bumped up to same, possibly more than EU when you add in the RotW, e.g. Asian player base. But they come online at a different times so it's a smoother demand on the servers and their backend systems. That said they have had years to fix it so no excuses really.

    A larger factor is the 4 different time zones in NA. If, say, peak time is 8pm-10pm (just using an example here), then while it's prime time on the East Coast, it's 5pm-7pm on the West Coast, where many are still at work or getting off work, having dinner, etc. When they do finally get into their prime time of 8pm-10pm, the East Coast is largely offline (it being 11pm-1am there). Central Time is starting to wind down (10pm-12am) and Mountain is in the middle of prime time (9pm-11pm).

    As ZOS has stated previously, it's the higher concurrency that's a larger issue for PC-EU. I'm guessing trader bids happen during peak times on PC-EU? If so, then that's a significant part of it, coupled with a larger population base. Multi-bidding I'm sure has also made things worse. So, peak time on Sunday with trader bids that now incorporate calculating multiple bids.

    It is possible that all of this makes PC-EU more vulnerable. Regardless, ZOS need to find a solution for the PC-EU community. If they don't, then it may not be long before it's one of the smallest.
  • DragonRacer
    DragonRacer
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    Jayne_Doe wrote: »
    x48rph wrote: »
    You know I just honestly don't get it. I can understand having problems with different platforms but like PCEU and PCNA should be pretty much running the same code so how these problems always hit EU but yet not NA is pretty baffling to me.

    The capacity at peak times is much higher on EU as the vast majority of players are from EU as you would expect.

    NA as a continent has a lower player base but their numbers are bumped up to same, possibly more than EU when you add in the RotW, e.g. Asian player base. But they come online at a different times so it's a smoother demand on the servers and their backend systems. That said they have had years to fix it so no excuses really.

    A larger factor is the 4 different time zones in NA. If, say, peak time is 8pm-10pm (just using an example here), then while it's prime time on the East Coast, it's 5pm-7pm on the West Coast, where many are still at work or getting off work, having dinner, etc. When they do finally get into their prime time of 8pm-10pm, the East Coast is largely offline (it being 11pm-1am there). Central Time is starting to wind down (10pm-12am) and Mountain is in the middle of prime time (9pm-11pm).

    As ZOS has stated previously, it's the higher concurrency that's a larger issue for PC-EU. I'm guessing trader bids happen during peak times on PC-EU? If so, then that's a significant part of it, coupled with a larger population base. Multi-bidding I'm sure has also made things worse. So, peak time on Sunday with trader bids that now incorporate calculating multiple bids.

    It is possible that all of this makes PC-EU more vulnerable. Regardless, ZOS need to find a solution for the PC-EU community. If they don't, then it may not be long before it's one of the smallest.

    Right, it sounds like, to me, EU trader change happens right smack dab in prime gaming time on a Sunday for Europe. With XBox and PS4, it seems those communities are smaller and, thus, not impacted by it. But with PC EU already struggling as it is, this just complicates things.

    Compared to NA, where swap occurs at 8pm Eastern for me currently (9pm Eastern when Daylight Savings Time is in effect), it's more spread out for traffic, even given a Sunday is loaded up with the normal Monday-Friday 9am-5pm workers getting their last fix in for the weekend.

    Back before multi-bidding launched, when many trading guild GMs were expressing concerns, I seem to recall @ZOS_GinaBruno saying that a possible idea on the table was changing trader flip to a less loaded day/time? Gina, please correct me if my memory fails on this. But I remember someone somewhere bringing it up because, at the time, I was opposed to the day/time changing (not realizing it had been on Monday morning before it was changed to Sunday evening). Old habits die hard and I had been ingrained with being online at flip in case a bid lost, to try and find an open to hire. With multi-bidding, that is literally no longer a thing - between peace of mind of placing multiple backup bids plus observing that there ARE no opens for hire anymore.

    I wonder if doing trader flip during a weekday morning (non-peak time for all) would aid in resolving this issue? Plus, I do not know how ZOS staffs - perhaps they have a full crew available for service at all hours and days of the week - but if they are more heavily staffed during the week with a smaller weekend crew, shifting the day/time means possibly more folks on staff to spot and fix an issue. Plus, poor Gina getting pinged during normal working hours rather than on Sunday afternoon. ;)
    PS5 NA. GM of The PTK's - a free trading guild (CP 500+). Also a werewolf, bites are free when they're available. PSN = DragonRacer13
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