Make jabs dodgable

Rahar · February 2020

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

I love how you all assume I gank / don’t have shade.
I run Ophidian venom, Spriggans, bloodspawn
Bars
rally
relentless
Camo / fear
Surprise attack
Executioner
Incap

Cloak
Leeching
Shade
Venom arrow
Vigour
Soul siphon

And sure. I’ll shade. Because I always have a shade up behind los.

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Jabs is an AoE and by ZOS standards, AoE'e aren't dodgable. And playing medium without shuffle is suicide and you should make room for shuffle over something else (unleas you're ganker).

Well jabs do too much damage by aoe standards. Also, instead of what? Shade? Rally? Leeching? Nb has no room.

NobleX35 wrote: »

This is yet again...another l2p issue...you gotta stop with the templar nerf threads, its getting old. Jabs is fine.

Do you main either
Brp dw?
Templar
petsorc
Heavy armour
Warden
Dk
Necro
Because these classes have defence. Nb doesn’t.

Any class can use brp dw...
Any class can use heavy armor
Any class can use medium armor + shuffle

You’re a NB, which has some of the best defensive skills in the game via cloak and shadow image. If you’re having trouble surviving make a better build.

Quit complaining because you decided to play a certain way and certain skills/builds counter your build/playstyle.

Again...l2p issue...

And brp is a carry set, heavy is not good on nb due to low damage, and I have no room on bars for shuffle.
And you do know that cloak is instantly countered by jabs?
I’ll complain until im not forced to use brp, heavy, or just play warden

Or...you know...you could just l2p!!!

Jabs has numerous counters. If you dont want to take the time to learn them, or invest in the tools that act as a counter, then you should be punished.

Quit asking for a trophy when you fail to adapt.

Would you like to list those counters?
Don’t worry I’ll do it
Moving out of the way? Great!!
Oh wait. 40% snare, gapcloser...
Ok evasion. Great!!
Oh wait. Not everyone can use it.
Ok Block? Great!!
I’ll use up 4x stam while I’m at it.

See my point?

Run shuffle/elude and get 25% mitigation...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Run elude and get major expedition...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Run shuffle or another snare removal and kite...oh wait...you dont want to adapt.
Run brp dw and get major exp + 55% mitigation to jabs...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Learn how to side step jabs so you dont get hit by every tick...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Learn how to run/roll through the templar so you avoid even more ticks...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Use heavy armor/tankier build so you dont take as much damage in general...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Cast shade, move away from shade, teleport to shade when taking a lot of damage, cloak to reset fight...oh wait...you dont want to adapt

Need I go on, or is it starting to become clear that this is definitely a..........l2p issue!!!

There are a few problems with this.

Elude is actually a terrible skill. Major exp is easy enough to get on a stamina class with a bow backbar, which NBs are pretty much forced to run thanks to Master's being so good and DW being a really bad choice for the class in general. BRP is even included, because the AoE damage will break cloak... oops. So that's out, too. Heavy armor isn't an option either (on NB) because due to cast times and no major fracture and incap nerfs and etc etc, NBs are really struggling with damage. It was really viable back in Elsweyr with dark cloak because the skill didn't scale so badly and I think we still had major fracture on Surprise Attack and some really good damage on alternatives like Dizzy. Now, though, it's not as good because the healing got reduced and damage on NB has been gutted.

Look, just because these options work on your sDK or sPlar doesn't mean they'll work on sNB. NB is really a different animal when it comes to stam. That being said, the only option for OP is to adapt and play more cautiously, since Templar has someone in the Dev team looking out for them.

Qbiken wrote: »

Jabs is an AoE and by ZOS standards, AoE'e aren't dodgable. And playing medium without shuffle is suicide and you should make room for shuffle over something else (unleas you're ganker).

Also sorry for responding twice, but isn't Colossus (Necro AoE ult) dodgeable? Seems to me exceptions exist.

NobleX35 · February 2020

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

And as a dodge roll build

The truth has finally been revealed!!!

There’s a counter to your build that you fail to account for/adapt to and cry for nerfs.

So dodge roll builds aren’t viable. So because of a single skill a entire playstyle is dead.
That’s op

Thats not what I said. Just because something has a counter doesnt mean its not viable. You have to account for the counter and build appropriately. Again, its your personal choice to not build appropriately.

Either adapt, or get over it...

idk · February 2020

Qbiken wrote: »

Jabs is an AoE and by ZOS standards, AoE'e aren't dodgable. And playing medium without shuffle is suicide and you should make room for shuffle over something else (unleas you're ganker).

Pretty much this. And if your melee what are you doing standing in from of your target?

Joy_Division · February 2020

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

So. This isn’t a nerf thread. I’d just like to point something out and ask for a fix.
Why is a skill that deals an immense amount of damage in a small window, and snares undodgable? Like wut?
Also, burning light.
It should be dodgable.
Now yes yes l2p...
Except it’s not. If you play heavy or brp or whatever jabs just tickles. But as I’m playing nb I have no room for shuffle, I have low defense (outside of dodge) so jabs regularly hits me for 6k in nocp (against a goodish Templar) accompanied by 3k burning lights.
All undodgable.
Does that seem fine?
It’s the same with beam. That kind of damage shouldn’t be undodgable. It’s just not fair on med (who aren’t carried by brp)
Just pointing this out.

It is l2p and it does seem fine.

One of the fundamental principles of ESO going back to the very beginning is that players do not have enough bar space to put on all the skills they want. That is entirely intended and something every player and every spec has to deal with. You can scream that it's not fair that your poor NB is missing out on an essential skill from their bar, but that's something we all have to contend with. When I was a rep, the most common complaint from *every* class was "not enough bar space." If anything, sorcerers were the most frequent complainers in this respect. This is absolutely intended. All of us on every class are not running valuable skills that would really help us in certain situations because there simply isn;t enough room. If you choose to go with Rally instead of Forward Momentum and not slot Shuffle or some form of snare immunity, that is your choice and why you keep making threads complaining that Templar snares and skills that mobile builds can avoid are killing you. It is totally a l2p issue, or more accurately, I'm too stubborn to change my build issue.

The other issue here is the nightblade class, specifically the stamina version of it. This spec, even when it was top tier, was heavily reliant on player skill to play effectively. No spec in the game has so much variance between a potato who is pretty much free AP and experts who just completely destroy mediocre players. It doesn't have crap for defense because it's mostly reliant on players skill to either avoid being hit or being able to put such pressure on their opponents that they aren't getting attacked. Of all the specs in the game, snare immunity is absolutely essential on this one and you are choosing not to run it. That's crazy.

In any event, if ZOS must intervene and address the L2P issues here, the correct approach is not to play "whack a nerf" against whatever meta class NB keeps dying to because there will always be one when NB isn't top dog. Rather it is to address the root of the problem and right now for NBs that is ZOS has taken away much of the Nb's ability to put pressure on their opponents such that their opponents are too busy healing themselves rather than attacking the NB who has crap defense. No skills should have a minimum travel time, no ultimate should have a cast time, the Silence change to Incap was a failure, minor beserk belongs in the NB kit, etc., and make it such this class is actually a fearsome offensive threat, which I would think ought to be part of its identity. Because right now, it's just meh.

Freakin_Hytte · February 2020

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

I love how you all assume I gank / don’t have shade.
I run Ophidian venom, Spriggans, bloodspawn
Bars
rally
relentless
Camo / fear
Surprise attack
Executioner
Incap

Cloak
Leeching
Shade
Venom arrow
Vigour
Soul siphon

And sure. I’ll shade. Because I always have a shade up behind los.

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Jabs is an AoE and by ZOS standards, AoE'e aren't dodgable. And playing medium without shuffle is suicide and you should make room for shuffle over something else (unleas you're ganker).

Well jabs do too much damage by aoe standards. Also, instead of what? Shade? Rally? Leeching? Nb has no room.

NobleX35 wrote: »

This is yet again...another l2p issue...you gotta stop with the templar nerf threads, its getting old. Jabs is fine.

Do you main either
Brp dw?
Templar
petsorc
Heavy armour
Warden
Dk
Necro
Because these classes have defence. Nb doesn’t.

Any class can use brp dw...
Any class can use heavy armor
Any class can use medium armor + shuffle

You’re a NB, which has some of the best defensive skills in the game via cloak and shadow image. If you’re having trouble surviving make a better build.

Quit complaining because you decided to play a certain way and certain skills/builds counter your build/playstyle.

Again...l2p issue...

And brp is a carry set, heavy is not good on nb due to low damage, and I have no room on bars for shuffle.
And you do know that cloak is instantly countered by jabs?
I’ll complain until im not forced to use brp, heavy, or just play warden

Or...you know...you could just l2p!!!

Jabs has numerous counters. If you dont want to take the time to learn them, or invest in the tools that act as a counter, then you should be punished.

Quit asking for a trophy when you fail to adapt.

Would you like to list those counters?
Don’t worry I’ll do it
Moving out of the way? Great!!
Oh wait. 40% snare, gapcloser...
Ok evasion. Great!!
Oh wait. Not everyone can use it.
Ok Block? Great!!
I’ll use up 4x stam while I’m at it.

See my point?

Run shuffle/elude and get 25% mitigation...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Run elude and get major expedition...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Run shuffle or another snare removal and kite...oh wait...you dont want to adapt.
Run brp dw and get major exp + 55% mitigation to jabs...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Learn how to side step jabs so you dont get hit by every tick...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Learn how to run/roll through the templar so you avoid even more ticks...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Use heavy armor/tankier build so you dont take as much damage in general...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Cast shade, move away from shade, teleport to shade when taking a lot of damage, cloak to reset fight...oh wait...you dont want to adapt

Need I go on, or is it starting to become clear that this is definitely a..........l2p issue!!!

I don’t know how many times I have to repeat this
I don’t have room for shuffle.
Brp dw isn’t good on nb, I hate carry sets, and bow is mandatory.
And a good Templar. Can. Always hit jabs.

And you’ve said it for your self. Run heavy / build tanky / brp

TANK
META

So just because of one skill I have to rework my entire build.
And that’s what I call op.

How many times do we have to tell you in all these threads, to adapt. If you want to stubbornly play as you always have then it's your own fault, he just posted several ways to avoid jabs and your response is again "I don't have room for shuffle".
Again yes you do, you obviously have no idea how resource management works if you have cost reduction glyph and 2,3k rec and you can't live without leeching even in no-cp.

With those kind of stats you could easily take leeching from your bar and put on shuffle.

Bloody hell just dodge roll through the templar with your bow to get major expedition and run around him so you become a hard target. It's not harder than that, that is how most of us counter jabs and it works perfectly, even in high mmr bgs and then you can keep leeching on your bar.

Freakin_Hytte · February 2020

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

Remove leeching then and put on shuffle, if you are a gankblade you don't need leeching. You barely need leeching even if you're not a gankblade, just do a heavy attack with you bow after you gone back to you shade.

It's your own fault for making yourself vulnerable to jabs, not putting evasion is your own fault and the argument that "there is no room for stamblades" is just wrong, it's you who don't want to make room for it and would rather cry about templars on the forum with constant nerf threads.

You NEED leeching for sustain in nocp especially. I have 2.3k recov (with a cost reduction glyph)
And as a dodge roll build I need a lot of recov. Nb has a lot of skills that are required. For example while dk has battle roar and combustion for sustain, nb has to slot skills. Dk also has fracture on a dot. Nb has to slot yet another skill. Dk has a stun on its ult. nb has... you get the picture

Lol you have cost rec glyph and 2,3k rec and you still need leeching. OK

ThePhantomThorn · February 2020

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

I love how you all assume I gank / don’t have shade.
I run Ophidian venom, Spriggans, bloodspawn
Bars
rally
relentless
Camo / fear
Surprise attack
Executioner
Incap

Cloak
Leeching
Shade
Venom arrow
Vigour
Soul siphon

And sure. I’ll shade. Because I always have a shade up behind los.

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Jabs is an AoE and by ZOS standards, AoE'e aren't dodgable. And playing medium without shuffle is suicide and you should make room for shuffle over something else (unleas you're ganker).

Well jabs do too much damage by aoe standards. Also, instead of what? Shade? Rally? Leeching? Nb has no room.

NobleX35 wrote: »

This is yet again...another l2p issue...you gotta stop with the templar nerf threads, its getting old. Jabs is fine.

Do you main either
Brp dw?
Templar
petsorc
Heavy armour
Warden
Dk
Necro
Because these classes have defence. Nb doesn’t.

Any class can use brp dw...
Any class can use heavy armor
Any class can use medium armor + shuffle

You’re a NB, which has some of the best defensive skills in the game via cloak and shadow image. If you’re having trouble surviving make a better build.

Quit complaining because you decided to play a certain way and certain skills/builds counter your build/playstyle.

Again...l2p issue...

And brp is a carry set, heavy is not good on nb due to low damage, and I have no room on bars for shuffle.
And you do know that cloak is instantly countered by jabs?
I’ll complain until im not forced to use brp, heavy, or just play warden

Or...you know...you could just l2p!!!

Jabs has numerous counters. If you dont want to take the time to learn them, or invest in the tools that act as a counter, then you should be punished.

Quit asking for a trophy when you fail to adapt.

Would you like to list those counters?
Don’t worry I’ll do it
Moving out of the way? Great!!
Oh wait. 40% snare, gapcloser...
Ok evasion. Great!!
Oh wait. Not everyone can use it.
Ok Block? Great!!
I’ll use up 4x stam while I’m at it.

See my point?

Run shuffle/elude and get 25% mitigation...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Run elude and get major expedition...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Run shuffle or another snare removal and kite...oh wait...you dont want to adapt.
Run brp dw and get major exp + 55% mitigation to jabs...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Learn how to side step jabs so you dont get hit by every tick...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Learn how to run/roll through the templar so you avoid even more ticks...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Use heavy armor/tankier build so you dont take as much damage in general...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Cast shade, move away from shade, teleport to shade when taking a lot of damage, cloak to reset fight...oh wait...you dont want to adapt

Need I go on, or is it starting to become clear that this is definitely a..........l2p issue!!!

I don’t know how many times I have to repeat this
I don’t have room for shuffle.
Brp dw isn’t good on nb, I hate carry sets, and bow is mandatory.
And a good Templar. Can. Always hit jabs.

And you’ve said it for your self. Run heavy / build tanky / brp

TANK
META

So just because of one skill I have to rework my entire build.
And that’s what I call op.

How many times do we have to tell you in all these threads, to adapt. If you want to stubbornly play as you always have then it's your own fault, he just posted several ways to avoid jabs and your response is again "I don't have room for shuffle".
Again yes you do, you obviously have no idea how resource management works if you have cost reduction glyph and 2,3k rec and you can't live without leeching even in no-cp.

With those kind of stats you could easily take leeching from your bar and put on shuffle.

Bloody hell just dodge roll through the templar with your bow to get major expedition and run around him so you become a hard target. It's not harder than that, that is how most of us counter jabs and it works perfectly, even in high mmr bgs and then you can keep leeching on your bar.

You clearly don’t play stamnb
Ok. Sure I’ll dodge through them.
Unlesssss
They are good enough to turn around and stun.
And seriously what class do you main?

Anyways, my original point (before all the l2p) is jabs being undodgable is op.
So let me put it like this. Imagine if dizzy was undodgable? And it does more damage aswell.
Stamnb has to juggle sustain, damage, and tankyness in a way that other classes find easy. Templar has a huge aoe hot, easy damage and has added sustain through repentance and rune.
Dk has easy tankyness, decent sustain, so it can invest all into damage.
Sorc has huge amounts of sustain, good heals and so can spec damage without much of an issue

Nb has low damage, sustain, and heals. Dodge is the only defense and a single skill counters all of its defense

ThePhantomThorn · February 2020

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

Remove leeching then and put on shuffle, if you are a gankblade you don't need leeching. You barely need leeching even if you're not a gankblade, just do a heavy attack with you bow after you gone back to you shade.

It's your own fault for making yourself vulnerable to jabs, not putting evasion is your own fault and the argument that "there is no room for stamblades" is just wrong, it's you who don't want to make room for it and would rather cry about templars on the forum with constant nerf threads.

You NEED leeching for sustain in nocp especially. I have 2.3k recov (with a cost reduction glyph)
And as a dodge roll build I need a lot of recov. Nb has a lot of skills that are required. For example while dk has battle roar and combustion for sustain, nb has to slot skills. Dk also has fracture on a dot. Nb has to slot yet another skill. Dk has a stun on its ult. nb has... you get the picture

Lol you have cost rec glyph and 2,3k rec and you still need leeching. OK

Yes in nocp. You seem to forget that nb doesn’t have battle roar or dark deal. And has to dodge roll a whole lot. If I drop leeching I completely run dry if I’m in an extended fight.

NobleX35 · February 2020

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

I love how you all assume I gank / don’t have shade.
I run Ophidian venom, Spriggans, bloodspawn
Bars
rally
relentless
Camo / fear
Surprise attack
Executioner
Incap

Cloak
Leeching
Shade
Venom arrow
Vigour
Soul siphon

And sure. I’ll shade. Because I always have a shade up behind los.

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Jabs is an AoE and by ZOS standards, AoE'e aren't dodgable. And playing medium without shuffle is suicide and you should make room for shuffle over something else (unleas you're ganker).

Well jabs do too much damage by aoe standards. Also, instead of what? Shade? Rally? Leeching? Nb has no room.

NobleX35 wrote: »

This is yet again...another l2p issue...you gotta stop with the templar nerf threads, its getting old. Jabs is fine.

Do you main either
Brp dw?
Templar
petsorc
Heavy armour
Warden
Dk
Necro
Because these classes have defence. Nb doesn’t.

Any class can use brp dw...
Any class can use heavy armor
Any class can use medium armor + shuffle

You’re a NB, which has some of the best defensive skills in the game via cloak and shadow image. If you’re having trouble surviving make a better build.

Quit complaining because you decided to play a certain way and certain skills/builds counter your build/playstyle.

Again...l2p issue...

And brp is a carry set, heavy is not good on nb due to low damage, and I have no room on bars for shuffle.
And you do know that cloak is instantly countered by jabs?
I’ll complain until im not forced to use brp, heavy, or just play warden

Or...you know...you could just l2p!!!

Jabs has numerous counters. If you dont want to take the time to learn them, or invest in the tools that act as a counter, then you should be punished.

Quit asking for a trophy when you fail to adapt.

Would you like to list those counters?
Don’t worry I’ll do it
Moving out of the way? Great!!
Oh wait. 40% snare, gapcloser...
Ok evasion. Great!!
Oh wait. Not everyone can use it.
Ok Block? Great!!
I’ll use up 4x stam while I’m at it.

See my point?

Run shuffle/elude and get 25% mitigation...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Run elude and get major expedition...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Run shuffle or another snare removal and kite...oh wait...you dont want to adapt.
Run brp dw and get major exp + 55% mitigation to jabs...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Learn how to side step jabs so you dont get hit by every tick...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Learn how to run/roll through the templar so you avoid even more ticks...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Use heavy armor/tankier build so you dont take as much damage in general...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Cast shade, move away from shade, teleport to shade when taking a lot of damage, cloak to reset fight...oh wait...you dont want to adapt

Need I go on, or is it starting to become clear that this is definitely a..........l2p issue!!!

I don’t know how many times I have to repeat this
I don’t have room for shuffle.
Brp dw isn’t good on nb, I hate carry sets, and bow is mandatory.
And a good Templar. Can. Always hit jabs.

And you’ve said it for your self. Run heavy / build tanky / brp

TANK
META

So just because of one skill I have to rework my entire build.
And that’s what I call op.

How many times do we have to tell you in all these threads, to adapt. If you want to stubbornly play as you always have then it's your own fault, he just posted several ways to avoid jabs and your response is again "I don't have room for shuffle".
Again yes you do, you obviously have no idea how resource management works if you have cost reduction glyph and 2,3k rec and you can't live without leeching even in no-cp.

With those kind of stats you could easily take leeching from your bar and put on shuffle.

Bloody hell just dodge roll through the templar with your bow to get major expedition and run around him so you become a hard target. It's not harder than that, that is how most of us counter jabs and it works perfectly, even in high mmr bgs and then you can keep leeching on your bar.

You clearly don’t play stamnb
Ok. Sure I’ll dodge through them.
Unlesssss
They are good enough to turn around and stun.
And seriously what class do you main?

Anyways, my original point (before all the l2p) is jabs being undodgable is op.
So let me put it like this. Imagine if dizzy was undodgable? And it does more damage aswell.
Stamnb has to juggle sustain, damage, and tankyness in a way that other classes find easy. Templar has a huge aoe hot, easy damage and has added sustain through repentance and rune.
Dk has easy tankyness, decent sustain, so it can invest all into damage.
Sorc has huge amounts of sustain, good heals and so can spec damage without much of an issue

Nb has low damage, sustain, and heals. Dodge is the only defense and a single skill counters all of its defense

You have a build that fails to adapt to something that directly counters it. That does not make that thing OP, that means your build has a counter.

Jabs being undodgeable does not make it OP. It is an aoe ability following aoe standard rules, which means it is subject to major evasion and 25% damage mitigation. You choose not to incorporate any counters to the skill into your build.

That is your fault and your problem.

Rikumaru · February 2020

While jabs shouldn't be nerfed, lets be real here, every good stam spammable got nerfed in the previous patches by ZOS. Spammables such as: Surprise attack, Dizzying Strike (and again from this patch), Heroic Slash and Puncture (can't even be used as a spammable anymore). They all either got a damage nerf or/and got their secondary functions removed / nerfed.

Jabs prior to these nerfs was already a good spammable, but with the nerfs to all the other good ones it's clearly far superior now. What should be done is for the other stam spammables to be rebuffed.

ThePhantomThorn · February 2020

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

I love how you all assume I gank / don’t have shade.
I run Ophidian venom, Spriggans, bloodspawn
Bars
rally
relentless
Camo / fear
Surprise attack
Executioner
Incap

Cloak
Leeching
Shade
Venom arrow
Vigour
Soul siphon

And sure. I’ll shade. Because I always have a shade up behind los.

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Jabs is an AoE and by ZOS standards, AoE'e aren't dodgable. And playing medium without shuffle is suicide and you should make room for shuffle over something else (unleas you're ganker).

Well jabs do too much damage by aoe standards. Also, instead of what? Shade? Rally? Leeching? Nb has no room.

NobleX35 wrote: »

This is yet again...another l2p issue...you gotta stop with the templar nerf threads, its getting old. Jabs is fine.

Do you main either
Brp dw?
Templar
petsorc
Heavy armour
Warden
Dk
Necro
Because these classes have defence. Nb doesn’t.

Any class can use brp dw...
Any class can use heavy armor
Any class can use medium armor + shuffle

You’re a NB, which has some of the best defensive skills in the game via cloak and shadow image. If you’re having trouble surviving make a better build.

Quit complaining because you decided to play a certain way and certain skills/builds counter your build/playstyle.

Again...l2p issue...

And brp is a carry set, heavy is not good on nb due to low damage, and I have no room on bars for shuffle.
And you do know that cloak is instantly countered by jabs?
I’ll complain until im not forced to use brp, heavy, or just play warden

Or...you know...you could just l2p!!!

Jabs has numerous counters. If you dont want to take the time to learn them, or invest in the tools that act as a counter, then you should be punished.

Quit asking for a trophy when you fail to adapt.

Would you like to list those counters?
Don’t worry I’ll do it
Moving out of the way? Great!!
Oh wait. 40% snare, gapcloser...
Ok evasion. Great!!
Oh wait. Not everyone can use it.
Ok Block? Great!!
I’ll use up 4x stam while I’m at it.

See my point?

Run shuffle/elude and get 25% mitigation...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Run elude and get major expedition...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Run shuffle or another snare removal and kite...oh wait...you dont want to adapt.
Run brp dw and get major exp + 55% mitigation to jabs...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Learn how to side step jabs so you dont get hit by every tick...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Learn how to run/roll through the templar so you avoid even more ticks...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Use heavy armor/tankier build so you dont take as much damage in general...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Cast shade, move away from shade, teleport to shade when taking a lot of damage, cloak to reset fight...oh wait...you dont want to adapt

Need I go on, or is it starting to become clear that this is definitely a..........l2p issue!!!

I don’t know how many times I have to repeat this
I don’t have room for shuffle.
Brp dw isn’t good on nb, I hate carry sets, and bow is mandatory.
And a good Templar. Can. Always hit jabs.

And you’ve said it for your self. Run heavy / build tanky / brp

TANK
META

So just because of one skill I have to rework my entire build.
And that’s what I call op.

How many times do we have to tell you in all these threads, to adapt. If you want to stubbornly play as you always have then it's your own fault, he just posted several ways to avoid jabs and your response is again "I don't have room for shuffle".
Again yes you do, you obviously have no idea how resource management works if you have cost reduction glyph and 2,3k rec and you can't live without leeching even in no-cp.

With those kind of stats you could easily take leeching from your bar and put on shuffle.

Bloody hell just dodge roll through the templar with your bow to get major expedition and run around him so you become a hard target. It's not harder than that, that is how most of us counter jabs and it works perfectly, even in high mmr bgs and then you can keep leeching on your bar.

You clearly don’t play stamnb
Ok. Sure I’ll dodge through them.
Unlesssss
They are good enough to turn around and stun.
And seriously what class do you main?

Anyways, my original point (before all the l2p) is jabs being undodgable is op.
So let me put it like this. Imagine if dizzy was undodgable? And it does more damage aswell.
Stamnb has to juggle sustain, damage, and tankyness in a way that other classes find easy. Templar has a huge aoe hot, easy damage and has added sustain through repentance and rune.
Dk has easy tankyness, decent sustain, so it can invest all into damage.
Sorc has huge amounts of sustain, good heals and so can spec damage without much of an issue

Nb has low damage, sustain, and heals. Dodge is the only defense and a single skill counters all of its defense

You have a build that fails to adapt to something that directly counters it. That does not make that thing OP, that means your build has a counter.

Jabs being undodgeable does not make it OP. It is an aoe ability following aoe standard rules, which means it is subject to major evasion and 25% damage mitigation. You choose not to incorporate any counters to the skill into your build.

That is your fault and your problem.

Since when are aoe abilities undodgable?
Dawnbreaker is.

Freakin_Hytte · February 2020

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

I love how you all assume I gank / don’t have shade.
I run Ophidian venom, Spriggans, bloodspawn
Bars
rally
relentless
Camo / fear
Surprise attack
Executioner
Incap

Cloak
Leeching
Shade
Venom arrow
Vigour
Soul siphon

And sure. I’ll shade. Because I always have a shade up behind los.

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Jabs is an AoE and by ZOS standards, AoE'e aren't dodgable. And playing medium without shuffle is suicide and you should make room for shuffle over something else (unleas you're ganker).

Well jabs do too much damage by aoe standards. Also, instead of what? Shade? Rally? Leeching? Nb has no room.

NobleX35 wrote: »

This is yet again...another l2p issue...you gotta stop with the templar nerf threads, its getting old. Jabs is fine.

Do you main either
Brp dw?
Templar
petsorc
Heavy armour
Warden
Dk
Necro
Because these classes have defence. Nb doesn’t.

Any class can use brp dw...
Any class can use heavy armor
Any class can use medium armor + shuffle

You’re a NB, which has some of the best defensive skills in the game via cloak and shadow image. If you’re having trouble surviving make a better build.

Quit complaining because you decided to play a certain way and certain skills/builds counter your build/playstyle.

Again...l2p issue...

And brp is a carry set, heavy is not good on nb due to low damage, and I have no room on bars for shuffle.
And you do know that cloak is instantly countered by jabs?
I’ll complain until im not forced to use brp, heavy, or just play warden

Or...you know...you could just l2p!!!

Jabs has numerous counters. If you dont want to take the time to learn them, or invest in the tools that act as a counter, then you should be punished.

Quit asking for a trophy when you fail to adapt.

Would you like to list those counters?
Don’t worry I’ll do it
Moving out of the way? Great!!
Oh wait. 40% snare, gapcloser...
Ok evasion. Great!!
Oh wait. Not everyone can use it.
Ok Block? Great!!
I’ll use up 4x stam while I’m at it.

See my point?

Run shuffle/elude and get 25% mitigation...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Run elude and get major expedition...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Run shuffle or another snare removal and kite...oh wait...you dont want to adapt.
Run brp dw and get major exp + 55% mitigation to jabs...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Learn how to side step jabs so you dont get hit by every tick...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Learn how to run/roll through the templar so you avoid even more ticks...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Use heavy armor/tankier build so you dont take as much damage in general...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Cast shade, move away from shade, teleport to shade when taking a lot of damage, cloak to reset fight...oh wait...you dont want to adapt

Need I go on, or is it starting to become clear that this is definitely a..........l2p issue!!!

I don’t know how many times I have to repeat this
I don’t have room for shuffle.
Brp dw isn’t good on nb, I hate carry sets, and bow is mandatory.
And a good Templar. Can. Always hit jabs.

And you’ve said it for your self. Run heavy / build tanky / brp

TANK
META

So just because of one skill I have to rework my entire build.
And that’s what I call op.

How many times do we have to tell you in all these threads, to adapt. If you want to stubbornly play as you always have then it's your own fault, he just posted several ways to avoid jabs and your response is again "I don't have room for shuffle".
Again yes you do, you obviously have no idea how resource management works if you have cost reduction glyph and 2,3k rec and you can't live without leeching even in no-cp.

With those kind of stats you could easily take leeching from your bar and put on shuffle.

Bloody hell just dodge roll through the templar with your bow to get major expedition and run around him so you become a hard target. It's not harder than that, that is how most of us counter jabs and it works perfectly, even in high mmr bgs and then you can keep leeching on your bar.

You clearly don’t play stamnb
Ok. Sure I’ll dodge through them.
Unlesssss
They are good enough to turn around and stun.
And seriously what class do you main?

Anyways, my original point (before all the l2p) is jabs being undodgable is op.
So let me put it like this. Imagine if dizzy was undodgable? And it does more damage aswell.
Stamnb has to juggle sustain, damage, and tankyness in a way that other classes find easy. Templar has a huge aoe hot, easy damage and has added sustain through repentance and rune.
Dk has easy tankyness, decent sustain, so it can invest all into damage.
Sorc has huge amounts of sustain, good heals and so can spec damage without much of an issue

Nb has low damage, sustain, and heals. Dodge is the only defense and a single skill counters all of its defense

I used to play stamnb as my main, I have a 3 star stamblade and still play it. But sure nice try in trying to make my points and advice how you can avoid jabs instead of asking for nerfs irrelevant...

I know nb are trash right now, but nbs use the same mechanics in how to avoid jabs as every other class does. you can dodge and avoid jabs. Sure not damage but avoid to get hit, if you activate a skill or potion with immovability and dodge roll on your bow bar to gain major expedition, you should have no problem except for the first few hits. It's not hard.

If you want to Balance and improve nbs while comparing to other classes, start a thread about your ideas in how to improve the class. Why even mention dks or sorcs when you want to nerf a templar skill?

This only shows that you want nbs to be better, but you are directing your frustration towards one skill. As I said start creating threads to improve the class instead of asking for nerfs to others, especially skills that can pretty much be avoided.
Instead of arguing I would cheer you on and so would the majority of forum I imagine.

Joy_Division · February 2020

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

I love how you all assume I gank / don’t have shade.
I run Ophidian venom, Spriggans, bloodspawn
Bars
rally
relentless
Camo / fear
Surprise attack
Executioner
Incap

Cloak
Leeching
Shade
Venom arrow
Vigour
Soul siphon

And sure. I’ll shade. Because I always have a shade up behind los.

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Jabs is an AoE and by ZOS standards, AoE'e aren't dodgable. And playing medium without shuffle is suicide and you should make room for shuffle over something else (unleas you're ganker).

Well jabs do too much damage by aoe standards. Also, instead of what? Shade? Rally? Leeching? Nb has no room.

NobleX35 wrote: »

This is yet again...another l2p issue...you gotta stop with the templar nerf threads, its getting old. Jabs is fine.

Do you main either
Brp dw?
Templar
petsorc
Heavy armour
Warden
Dk
Necro
Because these classes have defence. Nb doesn’t.

Any class can use brp dw...
Any class can use heavy armor
Any class can use medium armor + shuffle

You’re a NB, which has some of the best defensive skills in the game via cloak and shadow image. If you’re having trouble surviving make a better build.

Quit complaining because you decided to play a certain way and certain skills/builds counter your build/playstyle.

Again...l2p issue...

And brp is a carry set, heavy is not good on nb due to low damage, and I have no room on bars for shuffle.
And you do know that cloak is instantly countered by jabs?
I’ll complain until im not forced to use brp, heavy, or just play warden

Or...you know...you could just l2p!!!

Jabs has numerous counters. If you dont want to take the time to learn them, or invest in the tools that act as a counter, then you should be punished.

Quit asking for a trophy when you fail to adapt.

Would you like to list those counters?
Don’t worry I’ll do it
Moving out of the way? Great!!
Oh wait. 40% snare, gapcloser...
Ok evasion. Great!!
Oh wait. Not everyone can use it.
Ok Block? Great!!
I’ll use up 4x stam while I’m at it.

See my point?

Run shuffle/elude and get 25% mitigation...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Run elude and get major expedition...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Run shuffle or another snare removal and kite...oh wait...you dont want to adapt.
Run brp dw and get major exp + 55% mitigation to jabs...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Learn how to side step jabs so you dont get hit by every tick...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Learn how to run/roll through the templar so you avoid even more ticks...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Use heavy armor/tankier build so you dont take as much damage in general...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Cast shade, move away from shade, teleport to shade when taking a lot of damage, cloak to reset fight...oh wait...you dont want to adapt

Need I go on, or is it starting to become clear that this is definitely a..........l2p issue!!!

I don’t know how many times I have to repeat this
I don’t have room for shuffle.
Brp dw isn’t good on nb, I hate carry sets, and bow is mandatory.
And a good Templar. Can. Always hit jabs.

And you’ve said it for your self. Run heavy / build tanky / brp

TANK
META

So just because of one skill I have to rework my entire build.
And that’s what I call op.

How many times do we have to tell you in all these threads, to adapt. If you want to stubbornly play as you always have then it's your own fault, he just posted several ways to avoid jabs and your response is again "I don't have room for shuffle".
Again yes you do, you obviously have no idea how resource management works if you have cost reduction glyph and 2,3k rec and you can't live without leeching even in no-cp.

With those kind of stats you could easily take leeching from your bar and put on shuffle.

Bloody hell just dodge roll through the templar with your bow to get major expedition and run around him so you become a hard target. It's not harder than that, that is how most of us counter jabs and it works perfectly, even in high mmr bgs and then you can keep leeching on your bar.

You clearly don’t play stamnb
Ok. Sure I’ll dodge through them.
Unlesssss
They are good enough to turn around and stun.
And seriously what class do you main?

Anyways, my original point (before all the l2p) is jabs being undodgable is op.
So let me put it like this. Imagine if dizzy was undodgable? And it does more damage aswell.
Stamnb has to juggle sustain, damage, and tankyness in a way that other classes find easy. Templar has a huge aoe hot, easy damage and has added sustain through repentance and rune.
Dk has easy tankyness, decent sustain, so it can invest all into damage.
Sorc has huge amounts of sustain, good heals and so can spec damage without much of an issue

Nb has low damage, sustain, and heals. Dodge is the only defense and a single skill counters all of its defense

You have a build that fails to adapt to something that directly counters it. That does not make that thing OP, that means your build has a counter.

Jabs being undodgeable does not make it OP. It is an aoe ability following aoe standard rules, which means it is subject to major evasion and 25% damage mitigation. You choose not to incorporate any counters to the skill into your build.

That is your fault and your problem.

Since when are aoe abilities undodgable?
Dawnbreaker is.

Launch.
Any AoE that could be dodged, such as Steel Tornado, was a bug and got fixed a long time ago.

You're only "dodging" Dawnbreaker because it has a stupid cast time and are not in the area of effect when it fires.

BaiterOfZergs · February 2020

If you knew why they made jabs unable to be dodged you would realize this is a bad idea. But it’s as if you only been playing this game for a year.

Stibbons · February 2020

It is AOE so they are not dodgable. You have to get more experienced or change gear and go for tank.

Kidgangster101 · February 2020

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

Remove leeching then and put on shuffle, if you are a gankblade you don't need leeching. You barely need leeching even if you're not a gankblade, just do a heavy attack with you bow after you gone back to you shade.

It's your own fault for making yourself vulnerable to jabs, not putting evasion is your own fault and the argument that "there is no room for stamblades" is just wrong, it's you who don't want to make room for it and would rather cry about templars on the forum with constant nerf threads.

You NEED leeching for sustain in nocp especially. I have 2.3k recov (with a cost reduction glyph)
And as a dodge roll build I need a lot of recov. Nb has a lot of skills that are required. For example while dk has battle roar and combustion for sustain, nb has to slot skills. Dk also has fracture on a dot. Nb has to slot yet another skill. Dk has a stun on its ult. nb has... you get the picture

Lol you have cost rec glyph and 2,3k rec and you still need leeching. OK

Yes in nocp. You seem to forget that nb doesn’t have battle roar or dark deal. And has to dodge roll a whole lot. If I drop leeching I completely run dry if I’m in an extended fight.

This is a l2p issue bud. I know a few players that run almost no sustain and run around 21-25k stam pool on non cp (I only play no cp) and the guy murders multiple people fast. He has his own non meta build but guess what? He adapted to the meta and made something to counter it (and the man puts out crazy damage as a nb using medium armor.) I can also tell you that he doesn't use cost reductions either, he knows how to dodge and knows when to burst someone down.

Also people have told you how to actually counter jabs and you completely ignore him. Trust me take his advice I'm a templar main and nothing gets me more upset when I'm stuck in an animation for a split second and someone rolls through and goes for my back or side where my Jan doesn't hit lol.

Seems from what you say too you waste way to much stam if you need 2.1+ and cost reduction glyph's. Most of my toons run 1.2-1.5 recovery (maybe your sets are not that good) or maybe use well-fitted pieces so you reduce your rolls just saying man the problem here is YOU.

Nyteshade · February 2020

OP, being a paper doll gank NB in medium with no shuffle is your issue, not a class, skill, or balance issue. You can't just say that you want to lower other classes ability to kill your squishy self, so you can run around ganking with impunity.

MartiniDaniels · February 2020

Despite all ZOS statements about aoe balancing, most of hard hitting abilities and ultimates are aoe... so if you use shuffle, you will be more durable against ALL of them not only against jabs.
Also try playing templar, yes jabs do crazy damage when they hit. But in this de-synced game you'll be surprised how often they don't do any damage despite being aimed at opponent. Why? Because that guy is in another place (not where you see him) from server point of view and you are just jabbing air.

dcam86b14_ESO · February 2020

L2P

Casterial · February 2020

I bet you're a NB who spams cloak to try and get away from jabs.

Edziu · February 2020

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Ok. Sure I’ll dodge through them.
Unlesssss
They are good enough to turn around and stun.

so if they are good enough to turn and stun...then it seems they are just better, more skilled players than you and so this would be on every other class which they would use against you, you will still loose to them and then go on forum to vreate another nerf thread to just other class because from this called class someone more skilled beat you

Ankael07 · February 2020

How can NBs even complain about Templars is beyond me. You have superior mobility which completely counters them.

1) Get 10% resistance from Grim Focus, 15% debuff from Shadow Image and 25% resitance and snare immunity from Evasion and you hard counter their entire offensive toolkit

2) Escape to your 28 meter away Shadow Image when youre in danger and just reset the fight

Vicinia · February 2020

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

Remove leeching then and put on shuffle, if you are a gankblade you don't need leeching. You barely need leeching even if you're not a gankblade, just do a heavy attack with you bow after you gone back to you shade.

It's your own fault for making yourself vulnerable to jabs, not putting evasion is your own fault and the argument that "there is no room for stamblades" is just wrong, it's you who don't want to make room for it and would rather cry about templars on the forum with constant nerf threads.

You NEED leeching for sustain in nocp especially. I have 2.3k recov (with a cost reduction glyph)
And as a dodge roll build I need a lot of recov. Nb has a lot of skills that are required. For example while dk has battle roar and combustion for sustain, nb has to slot skills. Dk also has fracture on a dot. Nb has to slot yet another skill. Dk has a stun on its ult. nb has... you get the picture

Lol you have cost rec glyph and 2,3k rec and you still need leeching. OK

Yes in nocp. You seem to forget that nb doesn’t have battle roar or dark deal. And has to dodge roll a whole lot. If I drop leeching I completely run dry if I’m in an extended fight.

This is a l2p issue bud. I know a few players that run almost no sustain and run around 21-25k stam pool on non cp (I only play no cp) and the guy murders multiple people fast. He has his own non meta build but guess what? He adapted to the meta and made something to counter it (and the man puts out crazy damage as a nb using medium armor.) I can also tell you that he doesn't use cost reductions either, he knows how to dodge and knows when to burst someone down.

Also people have told you how to actually counter jabs and you completely ignore him. Trust me take his advice I'm a templar main and nothing gets me more upset when I'm stuck in an animation for a split second and someone rolls through and goes for my back or side where my Jan doesn't hit lol.

Seems from what you say too you waste way to much stam if you need 2.1+ and cost reduction glyph's. Most of my toons run 1.2-1.5 recovery (maybe your sets are not that good) or maybe use well-fitted pieces so you reduce your rolls just saying man the problem here is YOU.

I had to make sure I read 2k+ stam recovery, stam reduction glyphs and leeching twice to make sure. Also refusing to use counters... Then being mad that he's getting packed up by templars....

Casterial wrote: »

I bet you're a NB who spams cloak to try and get away from jabs.

Those are my favourite nbs

Bucky_13 · February 2020

So, I run mainly a stamblade sniper in no CP Cyro/BGs. While it's easier than a melee stamblade since you usually start the fights from range, I tend to end up in melee range against good templars fairly often in longer battles or when I screw up.

Dodge through them.

I don't run with Shadow Image or Shuffle for reasons (I know that would probably be smart to do but...), got 19k health, 7 medium with 5 impen out of those, 27k stam, 1.2k stam regen. It's a squishy build with a ton of weapon damage and strong heals that somehow survives a lot more than I expected from it. I can usually survive a templar by dodging through them while on bow bar, vigor+cloak or rally for some heals and distance, use LOS, stuns, and/or kite them until I have Ballista or Spectral Arrow lined up.

I've leveled a magplar recently in PvE and some PvP and yes, Jabs is stupidly good compared to most other spammables of other classes, but it's not the class or skill that I have a hardest time dealing with in PvP. The burst from Wardens are far worse, or bombers when I forget I'm the perfect target for them while standing at a flag. Or pet sorcs, I've accidentally stunned a Twilight more times than I'd like to admit.

TheFM · February 2020

Sandman929 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Jabs is an AoE and by ZOS standards, AoE'e aren't dodgable. And playing medium without shuffle is suicide and you should make room for shuffle over something else (unleas you're ganker).

Probably best not to bring up AoE standards unless you want jabs to adhere to them

yeah, even siege are dodgeable now. So no reason this shouldnt apply to jabs too.

NobleX35 · February 2020

TheFM wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Jabs is an AoE and by ZOS standards, AoE'e aren't dodgable. And playing medium without shuffle is suicide and you should make room for shuffle over something else (unleas you're ganker).

Probably best not to bring up AoE standards unless you want jabs to adhere to them

yeah, even siege are dodgeable now. So no reason this shouldnt apply to jabs too.

You cannot dodge siege...

Ramber · February 2020

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Jabs is an AoE and by ZOS standards, AoE'e aren't dodgable. And playing medium without shuffle is suicide and you should make room for shuffle over something else (unleas you're ganker).

Well jabs do too much damage by aoe standards. Also, instead of what? Shade? Rally? Leeching? Nb has no room.

NobleX35 wrote: »

This is yet again...another l2p issue...you gotta stop with the templar nerf threads, its getting old. Jabs is fine.

Do you main either
Brp dw?
Templar
petsorc
Heavy armour
Warden
Dk
Necro
Because these classes have defence. Nb doesn’t.

Stop being a ganker and switch to a battle nb you get more survivability. You can use heavy armor or medium with 2 heavy. Nb can be pretty tanky and guess what? You can even use brp dw too!

If you get killed because you build yourself to only gank players then it's a l2p issue when you get caught. You either play battle nb or you play magic nb or you play gankblade (super squishy unless you are good at hiding after coming out of stealth).

lol gankers are funny.. more and more we just ignore them

JinxxND · February 2020

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

I love how you all assume I gank / don’t have shade.
I run Ophidian venom, Spriggans, bloodspawn
Bars
rally
relentless
Camo / fear
Surprise attack
Executioner
Incap

Cloak
Leeching
Shade
Venom arrow
Vigour
Soul siphon

And sure. I’ll shade. Because I always have a shade up behind los.

NobleX35 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Jabs is an AoE and by ZOS standards, AoE'e aren't dodgable. And playing medium without shuffle is suicide and you should make room for shuffle over something else (unleas you're ganker).

Well jabs do too much damage by aoe standards. Also, instead of what? Shade? Rally? Leeching? Nb has no room.

NobleX35 wrote: »

This is yet again...another l2p issue...you gotta stop with the templar nerf threads, its getting old. Jabs is fine.

Do you main either
Brp dw?
Templar
petsorc
Heavy armour
Warden
Dk
Necro
Because these classes have defence. Nb doesn’t.

Any class can use brp dw...
Any class can use heavy armor
Any class can use medium armor + shuffle

You’re a NB, which has some of the best defensive skills in the game via cloak and shadow image. If you’re having trouble surviving make a better build.

Quit complaining because you decided to play a certain way and certain skills/builds counter your build/playstyle.

Again...l2p issue...

And brp is a carry set, heavy is not good on nb due to low damage, and I have no room on bars for shuffle.
And you do know that cloak is instantly countered by jabs?
I’ll complain until im not forced to use brp, heavy, or just play warden

Or...you know...you could just l2p!!!

Jabs has numerous counters. If you dont want to take the time to learn them, or invest in the tools that act as a counter, then you should be punished.

Quit asking for a trophy when you fail to adapt.

Would you like to list those counters?
Don’t worry I’ll do it
Moving out of the way? Great!!
Oh wait. 40% snare, gapcloser...
Ok evasion. Great!!
Oh wait. Not everyone can use it.
Ok Block? Great!!
I’ll use up 4x stam while I’m at it.

See my point?

Run shuffle/elude and get 25% mitigation...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Run elude and get major expedition...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Run shuffle or another snare removal and kite...oh wait...you dont want to adapt.
Run brp dw and get major exp + 55% mitigation to jabs...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Learn how to side step jabs so you dont get hit by every tick...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Learn how to run/roll through the templar so you avoid even more ticks...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Use heavy armor/tankier build so you dont take as much damage in general...oh wait...you dont want to adapt
Cast shade, move away from shade, teleport to shade when taking a lot of damage, cloak to reset fight...oh wait...you dont want to adapt

Need I go on, or is it starting to become clear that this is definitely a..........l2p issue!!!

I don’t know how many times I have to repeat this
I don’t have room for shuffle.
Brp dw isn’t good on nb, I hate carry sets, and bow is mandatory.
And a good Templar. Can. Always hit jabs.

And you’ve said it for your self. Run heavy / build tanky / brp

TANK
META

So just because of one skill I have to rework my entire build.
And that’s what I call op.

How many times do we have to tell you in all these threads, to adapt. If you want to stubbornly play as you always have then it's your own fault, he just posted several ways to avoid jabs and your response is again "I don't have room for shuffle".
Again yes you do, you obviously have no idea how resource management works if you have cost reduction glyph and 2,3k rec and you can't live without leeching even in no-cp.

With those kind of stats you could easily take leeching from your bar and put on shuffle.

Bloody hell just dodge roll through the templar with your bow to get major expedition and run around him so you become a hard target. It's not harder than that, that is how most of us counter jabs and it works perfectly, even in high mmr bgs and then you can keep leeching on your bar.

You clearly don’t play stamnb
Ok. Sure I’ll dodge through them.
Unlesssss
They are good enough to turn around and stun.
And seriously what class do you main?

Anyways, my original point (before all the l2p) is jabs being undodgable is op.
So let me put it like this. Imagine if dizzy was undodgable? And it does more damage aswell.
Stamnb has to juggle sustain, damage, and tankyness in a way that other classes find easy. Templar has a huge aoe hot, easy damage and has added sustain through repentance and rune.
Dk has easy tankyness, decent sustain, so it can invest all into damage.
Sorc has huge amounts of sustain, good heals and so can spec damage without much of an issue

Nb has low damage, sustain, and heals. Dodge is the only defense and a single skill counters all of its defense

You have a build that fails to adapt to something that directly counters it. That does not make that thing OP, that means your build has a counter.

Jabs being undodgeable does not make it OP. It is an aoe ability following aoe standard rules, which means it is subject to major evasion and 25% damage mitigation. You choose not to incorporate any counters to the skill into your build.

That is your fault and your problem.

Since when are aoe abilities undodgable?
Dawnbreaker is.

Dawnbreaker isn't dodgeable, unless you just straight up move out of the aoe range which you can do with jabs, I think a lot of people are getting tired of your nerf templar threads it's a huge l2p issue on your part if you cant fight against jabs spam its probably your fault for playing a gank blade and not slotting any forms of dmg mitigation grim focus, major evasion. Completely your builds fault, it's like rock paper scissors and you keep choosing scissors against the rock.

The only thing they can nerf about jabs is MAYBE the potency of the snare to 30% since they nerfed the snare passive, outside of that it's a solid class that they should look to bring other classes in their own unique ways up to the templar level without homogenizing classes any further.