Taktak wrote: »

pls make penalty on nightblade clock like sorc streak, Casting again within 3 seconds costs 33% more Magicka.

1mirg wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

I would be happy if they just reverted all the changes this would be amazing for my stamblade. If I remember right magblade was never in a particular good spot so magblade would definitely deserve some attention if they did this.

Played a Magblade on and off since day one and I can confirm that they've been in a bad spot from the get go, Stamblade get all the attention and focus while Magblade is generally ignored. Plus it also doesn't help that a good portion of our class skill morphs have better Stamina Morphs then Magicka ones, let alone with most of our class skills having a melee focus. it's like the developers expect all nightblades to play a stamina character.

Anyron wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

1mirg wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

I would be happy if they just reverted all the changes this would be amazing for my stamblade. If I remember right magblade was never in a particular good spot so magblade would definitely deserve some attention if they did this.

Played a Magblade on and off since day one and I can confirm that they've been in a bad spot from the get go, Stamblade get all the attention and focus while Magblade is generally ignored. Plus it also doesn't help that a good portion of our class skill morphs have better Stamina Morphs then Magicka ones, let alone with most of our class skills having a melee focus. it's like the developers expect all nightblades to play a stamina character.

Magblade can use some help but they have definitely been in good spots in pvp and pve before. At one point they dominated pve which lead to multiple nerfs.

Some help where?
Like it or not, if you buff damage of "normal" nightblade ( bowblade, speedblade, brawler) you buff damage of ganker as well.

And now it is possible to gank with both. Magblade with caluurion and zaan as carry sets and stamblade with his combo snipe+poison arrow+silence incap/onslaught/ballista = bow ult +some melee

So nightblade doesnt lack burst, it just has to be timed from sneak/cloak, and its really hard to ballance it with all those sets and CPs in game.

exeeter702 wrote: »

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx wrote: »

Vyvrhel wrote: »

As I said elsewhere, I seriously doubt they will dare to reintroduce anything able to do a high single target damage since players and namely beginners hate "ganking". What they want in pvp is longer fight and this intent is common in many MMOs. The newbs just need some time to realize what is happening.

The solution might be to remove the (nerfed) burst damage skills from the toolkit and replace it with many different dots, debuffs, knockbacks etc., with one finisher which would work once the target is properly "subdued".Imagine a cat playing with a mouse.
The defences should be built around speed, evasion, dodging and jumping around, fast uncatchable target.

Absolutely f***ing NOT. There's enough DoTs in the game, and it'd completely ruin the identity of Nightblades, and infringe/undermine on DKs
DK is THE DoT class, with Templars next to them.
NB and Sorc are the burst oriented class (Sorc leaning towards delayed burst)
Warden and Necro are their own thing

Nightblade is the bursty "get in, get out" class, it's why brawler builds don't work well on the class. It'd be a death sentence making NBs (easily arguably the squishiest class) have to linger around longer than they'd absolutely have to. Pair that with cloak being a joke and never working properly and being unreliable, lmao.
I'd like a list of games where the elusive, assassin/stealth class is build around/know for DoTs.

I fundamentally disagree with almost everything you just said.

And also magblade is not inherently a stealth based burst class. There was a time when cripple was the strongest single target dot in the game and magblades played entirely around cloakless attrition with ranged kiting, life stealing and hots.

Also templars are not a dot class.

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx wrote: »

Vyvrhel wrote: »

As I said elsewhere, I seriously doubt they will dare to reintroduce anything able to do a high single target damage since players and namely beginners hate "ganking". What they want in pvp is longer fight and this intent is common in many MMOs. The newbs just need some time to realize what is happening.

The solution might be to remove the (nerfed) burst damage skills from the toolkit and replace it with many different dots, debuffs, knockbacks etc., with one finisher which would work once the target is properly "subdued".Imagine a cat playing with a mouse.
The defences should be built around speed, evasion, dodging and jumping around, fast uncatchable target.

Absolutely f***ing NOT. There's enough DoTs in the game, and it'd completely ruin the identity of Nightblades, and infringe/undermine on DKs
DK is THE DoT class, with Templars next to them.
NB and Sorc are the burst oriented class (Sorc leaning towards delayed burst)
Warden and Necro are their own thing

Nightblade is the bursty "get in, get out" class, it's why brawler builds don't work well on the class. It'd be a death sentence making NBs (easily arguably the squishiest class) have to linger around longer than they'd absolutely have to. Pair that with cloak being a joke and never working properly and being unreliable, lmao.
I'd like a list of games where the elusive, assassin/stealth class is build around/know for DoTs.

I fundamentally disagree with almost everything you just said.

And also magblade is not inherently a stealth based burst class. There was a time when cripple was the strongest single target dot in the game and magblades played entirely around cloakless attrition with ranged kiting, life stealing and hots.

Also templars are not a dot class.

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx wrote: »

Vyvrhel wrote: »

As I said elsewhere, I seriously doubt they will dare to reintroduce anything able to do a high single target damage since players and namely beginners hate "ganking". What they want in pvp is longer fight and this intent is common in many MMOs. The newbs just need some time to realize what is happening.

The solution might be to remove the (nerfed) burst damage skills from the toolkit and replace it with many different dots, debuffs, knockbacks etc., with one finisher which would work once the target is properly "subdued".Imagine a cat playing with a mouse.
The defences should be built around speed, evasion, dodging and jumping around, fast uncatchable target.

Absolutely f***ing NOT. There's enough DoTs in the game, and it'd completely ruin the identity of Nightblades, and infringe/undermine on DKs
DK is THE DoT class, with Templars next to them.
NB and Sorc are the burst oriented class (Sorc leaning towards delayed burst)
Warden and Necro are their own thing

Nightblade is the bursty "get in, get out" class, it's why brawler builds don't work well on the class. It'd be a death sentence making NBs (easily arguably the squishiest class) have to linger around longer than they'd absolutely have to. Pair that with cloak being a joke and never working properly and being unreliable, lmao.
I'd like a list of games where the elusive, assassin/stealth class is build around/know for DoTs.

Templar is a dot class? Where do you get this stuff from.

Radial Sweep, Jabs (on a technicality), Shards,
Nova, Sun Fire, Backlash, Eclipse, Radiant Destruction. Funny, I almost listed an entire skill line... And that's just the DPS abilities. I didn't list the heals

How do people have such a hard time seeing Templar as a dot class?

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Good old times when nightblade was able to wreck anyone with 3 timed skills.

Right?


You want your opponent defenceless. You wanna gank him without giving them chance to save his life.

Invisibility -> kill -> invisibility. No risk high reward.


You can thank for this tank meta to your belowed gankers. Before stamblade change(the first one) there wasn't need for it. You changed it. Nobody wants to die.

When on my stamblade I use almost no class skills. I went from SA to Silver shards, I went from Killers blade to Executioner, it makes no sense to use the "escape" skills since Shuffle does the same and better. Heals? Nobody uses anything class based, just Vigor and Rally. So please name some CLASS SKILLS which are really good.
Even on my lowbie underequipped magplar I have better win to loss ratrio than on my main.
It is not about instakilling. I do not mind if they change the toolkit to work different way than a burst damage. There are ways. But as it is now the class just does not work.

As a stamblade you should be thankful enought for vigor. When there was only rally for stamina healing it was much worse. They changed vigor almost year later, after buffing stamina specs (also you have damage, sustain and mobility advantage to magicka. Be sure that healing and shields will be always stronger on mag. You have rest)

Trust me, if you think its pain now its nothing compared to play ONLY with weapon trees like it was before. Now you have several stamina skills you can use

Grim focus - its one of the best burst skills in game with whole minute to proc it. Anyone can proc it now. You do more than 5 per minute when anim. cancelling. It little sucks its almost always miss doe to projectile behaviour but try to play ranged. More than half of your skills miss and you even dont get back resources. At least you don't have there minimum travel time.

Killer's blade - it may be weaker than executioner but it should because you can use it with any weapon. Heal isnt much there ( to be honest its useless to heal on kill because of duels) but it still is unique stamina finisher and nightblade is only class that got it.

Incapacitating Strike - still decent ultimate for its cost. Damage buff there is awesome and it isnt on any other ultimate in game. It doesn't stun - unless used from invisibility - but it still offers passive regen of magicka and stamina while slotted.

Ambush is weak for damage because there isnt longer overpower for next skill used but it wasn't made to deal damage. Its utility skill that serves to get you closer to enemy. Most people abandon it while its still good counter to magsorc streak ( any gapcloser is) . Just spam it cheaply while hes using expensive streak to get away.

Mark Target is for free, it works like elemental drain but again you can use it with any weapon while ele is tied to destro staff.

I could go on but i don't want to bore you. You get most of stamina morphs fron any other older classes and i think that means something.


Damage isnt only whats useful on skills. Some may be stronger and some weaker but all still serves its purpose

What happened to class skill should be stronger than weapon skill?

Killer blade need a buff either cost,a new effect or increased hp treshold to get the execute damage.

Unique means nothing if it's outclassed by the most popular stamina weapon,it should be in the same level to give more choice.
Also "The should be weaker" is BS then we need to nerf templar heal,purge and sorc shield because they can be used without any weapon right?
Or is this another double standard thing that works only for NB?

Incapacitating have some value still but only because every stamina ult beside the templar one got a cast time,so yeah.

Ambush is terrible,one of the worst gap closer and it's terrible to catch a sorc thanks to the delay.
The streak animation is faster so unless you are actually close after some point the sorc will be out of range(or if there is lag).
Also is telegraphed is basically saying "hey im coming be ready" in cp is also a free off balance with the right CP.
Not so great if you ask me.

Mark target only few NB run it and for a reason. Good NB scrap this skill with passion.
No reason to waste a slot for it.

Merciless is good as defense but as offense is too unreliable,get dodged most of the time and have a loud sound that also tell the enemy is coming.
The projectile is also slow and super easy too see.

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Good old times when nightblade was able to wreck anyone with 3 timed skills.

Right?


You want your opponent defenceless. You wanna gank him without giving them chance to save his life.

Invisibility -> kill -> invisibility. No risk high reward.


You can thank for this tank meta to your belowed gankers. Before stamblade change(the first one) there wasn't need for it. You changed it. Nobody wants to die.

When on my stamblade I use almost no class skills. I went from SA to Silver shards, I went from Killers blade to Executioner, it makes no sense to use the "escape" skills since Shuffle does the same and better. Heals? Nobody uses anything class based, just Vigor and Rally. So please name some CLASS SKILLS which are really good.
Even on my lowbie underequipped magplar I have better win to loss ratrio than on my main.
It is not about instakilling. I do not mind if they change the toolkit to work different way than a burst damage. There are ways. But as it is now the class just does not work.

As a stamblade you should be thankful enought for vigor. When there was only rally for stamina healing it was much worse. They changed vigor almost year later, after buffing stamina specs (also you have damage, sustain and mobility advantage to magicka. Be sure that healing and shields will be always stronger on mag. You have rest)

Trust me, if you think its pain now its nothing compared to play ONLY with weapon trees like it was before. Now you have several stamina skills you can use

Grim focus - its one of the best burst skills in game with whole minute to proc it. Anyone can proc it now. You do more than 5 per minute when anim. cancelling. It little sucks its almost always miss doe to projectile behaviour but try to play ranged. More than half of your skills miss and you even dont get back resources. At least you don't have there minimum travel time.

Killer's blade - it may be weaker than executioner but it should because you can use it with any weapon. Heal isnt much there ( to be honest its useless to heal on kill because of duels) but it still is unique stamina finisher and nightblade is only class that got it.

Incapacitating Strike - still decent ultimate for its cost. Damage buff there is awesome and it isnt on any other ultimate in game. It doesn't stun - unless used from invisibility - but it still offers passive regen of magicka and stamina while slotted.

Ambush is weak for damage because there isnt longer overpower for next skill used but it wasn't made to deal damage. Its utility skill that serves to get you closer to enemy. Most people abandon it while its still good counter to magsorc streak ( any gapcloser is) . Just spam it cheaply while hes using expensive streak to get away.

Mark Target is for free, it works like elemental drain but again you can use it with any weapon while ele is tied to destro staff.

I could go on but i don't want to bore you. You get most of stamina morphs fron any other older classes and i think that means something.


Damage isnt only whats useful on skills. Some may be stronger and some weaker but all still serves its purpose

What happened to class skill should be stronger than weapon skill?

Killer blade need a buff either cost,a new effect or increased hp treshold to get the execute damage.

Unique means nothing if it's outclassed by the most popular stamina weapon,it should be in the same level to give more choice.
Also "The should be weaker" is BS then we need to nerf templar heal,purge and sorc shield because they can be used without any weapon right?
Or is this another double standard thing that works only for NB?

Incapacitating have some value still but only because every stamina ult beside the templar one got a cast time,so yeah.

Ambush is terrible,one of the worst gap closer and it's terrible to catch a sorc thanks to the delay.
The streak animation is faster so unless you are actually close after some point the sorc will be out of range(or if there is lag).
Also is telegraphed is basically saying "hey im coming be ready" in cp is also a free off balance with the right CP.
Not so great if you ask me.

Mark target only few NB run it and for a reason. Good NB scrap this skill with passion.
No reason to waste a slot for it.

Merciless is good as defense but as offense is too unreliable,get dodged most of the time and have a loud sound that also tell the enemy is coming.
The projectile is also slow and super easy too see.

have you ever tried to play ranged? dodge dodge dodge. and still there are full ranged builds.

Have you ever consider this is the trade off of playing max range?
Also if you think melee get every hit in youre mistaken,while also be more in danger.

And yes while NB is my main every other char beside my stam dk is ranged.

Magika necro,sorc and NB and no is not dodge dodge dodge.

Iskiab wrote: »

Taktak wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Taktak wrote: »

@Deathlord92 NB is fine you just need to learn how to play with it

Next you’ll tell me magsorc needs a buff. Try playing other classes, or your own class, well and then start sharing your opinion please.

i played nb in pvp and pve, i can say it completely fine
any buff for this class will make it broken like before

At what level? I haven’t seen a NB on PC-NA I’d say was competitive in a BG (where you can see performance stats at the end) in over 3 months.

exeeter702 wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Vyvrhel wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Good old times when nightblade was able to wreck anyone with 3 timed skills.

Right?


You want your opponent defenceless. You wanna gank him without giving them chance to save his life.

Invisibility -> kill -> invisibility. No risk high reward.


You can thank for this tank meta to your belowed gankers. Before stamblade change(the first one) there wasn't need for it. You changed it. Nobody wants to die.

When on my stamblade I use almost no class skills. I went from SA to Silver shards, I went from Killers blade to Executioner, it makes no sense to use the "escape" skills since Shuffle does the same and better. Heals? Nobody uses anything class based, just Vigor and Rally. So please name some CLASS SKILLS which are really good.
Even on my lowbie underequipped magplar I have better win to loss ratrio than on my main.
It is not about instakilling. I do not mind if they change the toolkit to work different way than a burst damage. There are ways. But as it is now the class just does not work.

As a stamblade you should be thankful enought for vigor. When there was only rally for stamina healing it was much worse. They changed vigor almost year later, after buffing stamina specs (also you have damage, sustain and mobility advantage to magicka. Be sure that healing and shields will be always stronger on mag. You have rest)

Trust me, if you think its pain now its nothing compared to play ONLY with weapon trees like it was before. Now you have several stamina skills you can use

Grim focus - its one of the best burst skills in game with whole minute to proc it. Anyone can proc it now. You do more than 5 per minute when anim. cancelling. It little sucks its almost always miss doe to projectile behaviour but try to play ranged. More than half of your skills miss and you even dont get back resources. At least you don't have there minimum travel time.

Killer's blade - it may be weaker than executioner but it should because you can use it with any weapon. Heal isnt much there ( to be honest its useless to heal on kill because of duels) but it still is unique stamina finisher and nightblade is only class that got it.

Incapacitating Strike - still decent ultimate for its cost. Damage buff there is awesome and it isnt on any other ultimate in game. It doesn't stun - unless used from invisibility - but it still offers passive regen of magicka and stamina while slotted.

Ambush is weak for damage because there isnt longer overpower for next skill used but it wasn't made to deal damage. Its utility skill that serves to get you closer to enemy. Most people abandon it while its still good counter to magsorc streak ( any gapcloser is) . Just spam it cheaply while hes using expensive streak to get away.

Mark Target is for free, it works like elemental drain but again you can use it with any weapon while ele is tied to destro staff.

I could go on but i don't want to bore you. You get most of stamina morphs fron any other older classes and i think that means something.


Damage isnt only whats useful on skills. Some may be stronger and some weaker but all still serves its purpose

What happened to class skill should be stronger than weapon skill?

Killer blade need a buff either cost,a new effect or increased hp treshold to get the execute damage.

Unique means nothing if it's outclassed by the most popular stamina weapon,it should be in the same level to give more choice.
Also "The should be weaker" is BS then we need to nerf templar heal,purge and sorc shield because they can be used without any weapon right?
Or is this another double standard thing that works only for NB?

Incapacitating have some value still but only because every stamina ult beside the templar one got a cast time,so yeah.

Ambush is terrible,one of the worst gap closer and it's terrible to catch a sorc thanks to the delay.
The streak animation is faster so unless you are actually close after some point the sorc will be out of range(or if there is lag).
Also is telegraphed is basically saying "hey im coming be ready" in cp is also a free off balance with the right CP.
Not so great if you ask me.

Mark target only few NB run it and for a reason. Good NB scrap this skill with passion.
No reason to waste a slot for it.

Merciless is good as defense but as offense is too unreliable,get dodged most of the time and have a loud sound that also tell the enemy is coming.
The projectile is also slow and super easy too see.

have you ever tried to play ranged? dodge dodge dodge. and still there are full ranged builds.

Have you ever consider this is the trade off of playing max range?
Also if you think melee get every hit in youre mistaken,while also be more in danger.

And yes while NB is my main every other char beside my stam dk is ranged.

Magika necro,sorc and NB and no is not dodge dodge dodge.

Actually it quite often is. Nb have a lot of ramp up when playing ranged, 75 percent of the time unless you are in a 1v1 where the opponent is actively trying to set up and combo you, then the second they see even 2 debuffs on thier bar and their hp pool ticks down a small fraction, they are rolling. Ranged magblade sees dodge on their screen more than any other caster hands down.

There is no trade off to playing range. Either you are hitting someone from range with an allied group among you and the guy you are hitting is rolling away because he isnt an idiot, or you are getting into an actual fight with a melee build and they just *** gap close. There is no ranged vs melee dynamic in this game. The only dynamic is making sure they dont have any more stamina for a window large enough for a stun into ult / will to land.

brandonv516 wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Taktak wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Taktak wrote: »

@Deathlord92 NB is fine you just need to learn how to play with it

Next you’ll tell me magsorc needs a buff. Try playing other classes, or your own class, well and then start sharing your opinion please.

i played nb in pvp and pve, i can say it completely fine
any buff for this class will make it broken like before

At what level? I haven’t seen a NB on PC-NA I’d say was competitive in a BG (where you can see performance stats at the end) in over 3 months.

I have a group of friends I play high mmr bg’s with on PC-NA. But...each is doing ~1mil+ dmg on every other class (warden, sorc, templar) while my magblade gets ~800k
If they run heals at all, they are doing ~600k+ to my only 300-400k

This has shown consistent across many matches & numbers speak for themselves imo.

Most of my recent high MMR games are around this mark (give or take a few hundred thousand).

The damage is there for Magblade but you have to work for it a lot more in my opinion. And most (if not all) of it is single target damage.

I can't come close to the heals though as some of these other classes can. Like the Warden I saw who put up 1.3m damage and 700k heals - just insane.

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Can nightblade please get a buff during elsweyr we got massive nerfs some would agree more then we deserved. What’s even worse is ever since our nerfs other classes got big buffs wardens are hitting harder with there aoes then we are with our single target skills not much of a single target monster are we warden was just an example I’m not asking for nerfs just for nb to be buffed.

My thoughts of what can be done for nightblade - to fix Detection potions mechanics.
After that it can be even adding a fatique to it's usage to prevent permanent spam.

Another thing - independent healing without sacrificing invisibility.
To rework absolutly useless "Malevolent Offering" for this and make it usefull.
In a case of fatique will be added.

Third thing can be form of Purge. Actually I offer not purge, but something more similar to Expunge of necromancers but in another way.
For example to share applyed to u debuffs with opponent(s) on usage with doing their efficiency at u weaker in depend of how many opponents u have...
Or, convert some number of debuffs into usefull one(s).
It's something new and can be very healthy for gameplay. @Gilliamtherogue , @ZOS_Gilliam what do u think about this?

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Listen I get it, Nightblades are terrible, and everyone knows it. But do we really need to spam the PTS with this topic over and over? If ZOS doesn't want Nightblades to be competitive then there's nothing we can do about it.