Rebirthment wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Rebirthment wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Rebirthment wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Rebirthment wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Rebirthment wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Every class has something missing. Sorc, THE spellcaster class, having to rely on a magic-imbued staff is very thematically fitting.

And they would still use a magic staff at least magsorcs will. Stamsorcs even now don't use staves because of game mechanics but thematically stamsorcs imo are are still sorcerers but those who fight in melee like your typical spellsword. Not all magic users use a staff you know.

Easy, players wanting spammables are usually the one crying for melee ranged abilties because they are bad at countering ranged fighters! Like i said before - bad players will always be bad. If you want spammables because player skill is lacking play a bumplar.

Stam sorcerer is a brawler no way around that.

Im not talking about skill but class identity. Im suggesting giving sorcs something that they lacked out of any other class and that is their own unique spammable. I also have no idea what you're going on about with Stamsorc when im not arguing about them not being a brawler class. Im giving them a spammable they can use to help give them some class identity they really need. The stam morph could turn it into a melee range spammable instead if that's what you're saying.

Out of all the classes the sorcerer has by far the best "class identity"! Adding a spammable to a ranged dps class does nothing to help with "class identity".

Stop using the term "class identity", lets be real here, your proposal is easy mode covered by the term "class identity"....

Player skill is lacking...

In case you forgot or didnt know but when Zo$ swings the buff hammer or the nerf hammer theyre looking at how abilities are working in pvp NOT pve- stam sorcers have two sources for mobility, CC and great healing/resource return capability, the last thing stam sorc needs is a class spammable. Youre wanting an already OP class even more OP.
Adding a spammable to sorc is like magplar with incredible mobility while healing when they spam their spammable away...

You mean magsorc. And while all magicka classes tend to have better class identity than stam, id say sorc can definitely have a skill or morph to be more viable which also helps them feel even more unique. Especially stamsorc, which desperately needs the love. Though I do think that other classes prob deserve it more.

You aren't being real by saying this is just making the class ez mode. I told you already that this idea is meant for both mag and stamsorc to not have to rely on weapon skills for a spammable with the latter having to rely almost completely on them. And your statement that ZOS looks at how they perform only in PVP and not PVE is just wrong. They have to look at it both ways. And while I didn't think much about this change pvp wise, it could definitely be tweaked to make it balanced but not broken in pvp. It can be tough but it's definitely not impossible.

No i meant both versions. Your first sentence leads me to believe you dont know what youre talking about.

Relying on weapon abilities for spammables? Bad players and overland zone questers rely on spamming abilities whether they be class or weapon based regardless you should be using a rotation not relying on one ability to spam. What youre asking for gives zero incentive to make the become better.

Theres a reason why the developer gave us wwapons and weapon abilities, So that we can utilize them in a rotation for DPS.
Stop trying to make eso even more generic.

You say to stop making this game generic except you want sorcs to rely on weapon skill lines like other classes? Especially stamsorc? Ironic because im trying to make them feel unique by giving them a more viable skill to use instead of relying on a skill that anyone can use.

While magsorcs and other mag classes use more magicka skills, it wouldn't hurt to give not just them but stam classes more identity which is a big issue in this game.

Im not sure what your going on about when giving sorcs a spammable doesn't mean they're going to use that skill only, at least decent players won't. It's going to be used within their rotation just like any other class with their own spam ability.

Weapon abilities are there mostly as an alt method or different way to change up your rotation instead of just using them to make up a classes drawbacks only and no other reason.

Idk if you're talking about the same thing or confusing this with something else.

Uh thats usually what a brawler does, is to use weapon abilities- this is why dual weilding, bow and two handed bladed/blunted weapons exist so that stam characters can utilize whats been given to them specifically and this is a main focal point on what seperates magic and stam classes, trying to get stam classes to mirror their magic counterparts would not only hurt balance issues it would make for an even wider gap between magic and stam that many people complain about already.. This is why i said this game is an oxymoron when it comes to classes, and zos got it wrong.

I have no problem clearing veteran content on my stam sorc or my DK, none at all....
Learn to play

Brawlers don't have to be forced to use weapon skills. You also have jabs for stamplar and suprise att for stamblade and Stamdks are also getting their own spammable changed in the pts. The stam morph for a spammable with sorc can be turned into a melee range ability that also has an extra unique effect or debuff on the enemy.

Issue is trying to balance it so it's good in pve but not broken in pvp. As for wep abilities, those aren't going anywhere. Those will still most likely be in rotations at least poison injection and hail and will still most likely be used in pvp esp the 2h skill line.

Again you and a couple others keep talking about skill when it's not even about that at all. It's about class identity, and while it's tough for ZOS to do that, at least they're trying.

Uh yes thats what makes a brawler, is a fighter using weapons!!
The dumbest thing zos did was make stam morphs for their magic counterparts, but since you brought up stamplar i will further this to prove my point, stamplar has a spammable but lacks the healing/resource return and high mobility along with CC that stam sorc currently uses including pets and a pet ult that stuns at their disposal. Stam sorc has the ability to mount alot of pressure on the other classes, far treater than stamplar can do. So not only adding a spammable to an OP class would be ridiculous but it would be detrimental to balance.

Zos looks at how classes opereate in pvp not in pve.< if you have a problem with this than you need to take it up with the developer as they have stated when it comes to balancing they look at pvp performance to make their decisions.
The shield nerf was due to the whiners about shield stackers in pvp, thus came the nerf in attempts to make sorcerers more reliant on healers. That didnt go as planned.

Not once did you offer an alternative to giving something for a spammable, zos has clearly stated before- give and take!
The sorcerer has perfect class identity, magic sorcerer is not a class and stam sorcer is not a class they are archtypes of a pre-existing class. Trying to oppose the original intentions of the developer for their ranged DPS class with out a constructive, informative argument wont help your cause. Saying "i want it" is not good enough.

In pve, when i see some one spam their class spammable i immediately kick them from the group! Rotation is key to sucess no matter if they be stam or magic. I better see weapon abilities being used in my group.

Rebirthment wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Rebirthment wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Rebirthment wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Rebirthment wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Rebirthment wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Rebirthment wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Every class has something missing. Sorc, THE spellcaster class, having to rely on a magic-imbued staff is very thematically fitting.

And they would still use a magic staff at least magsorcs will. Stamsorcs even now don't use staves because of game mechanics but thematically stamsorcs imo are are still sorcerers but those who fight in melee like your typical spellsword. Not all magic users use a staff you know.

Easy, players wanting spammables are usually the one crying for melee ranged abilties because they are bad at countering ranged fighters! Like i said before - bad players will always be bad. If you want spammables because player skill is lacking play a bumplar.

Stam sorcerer is a brawler no way around that.

Im not talking about skill but class identity. Im suggesting giving sorcs something that they lacked out of any other class and that is their own unique spammable. I also have no idea what you're going on about with Stamsorc when im not arguing about them not being a brawler class. Im giving them a spammable they can use to help give them some class identity they really need. The stam morph could turn it into a melee range spammable instead if that's what you're saying.

Out of all the classes the sorcerer has by far the best "class identity"! Adding a spammable to a ranged dps class does nothing to help with "class identity".

Stop using the term "class identity", lets be real here, your proposal is easy mode covered by the term "class identity"....

Player skill is lacking...

In case you forgot or didnt know but when Zo$ swings the buff hammer or the nerf hammer theyre looking at how abilities are working in pvp NOT pve- stam sorcers have two sources for mobility, CC and great healing/resource return capability, the last thing stam sorc needs is a class spammable. Youre wanting an already OP class even more OP.
Adding a spammable to sorc is like magplar with incredible mobility while healing when they spam their spammable away...

You mean magsorc. And while all magicka classes tend to have better class identity than stam, id say sorc can definitely have a skill or morph to be more viable which also helps them feel even more unique. Especially stamsorc, which desperately needs the love. Though I do think that other classes prob deserve it more.

You aren't being real by saying this is just making the class ez mode. I told you already that this idea is meant for both mag and stamsorc to not have to rely on weapon skills for a spammable with the latter having to rely almost completely on them. And your statement that ZOS looks at how they perform only in PVP and not PVE is just wrong. They have to look at it both ways. And while I didn't think much about this change pvp wise, it could definitely be tweaked to make it balanced but not broken in pvp. It can be tough but it's definitely not impossible.

No i meant both versions. Your first sentence leads me to believe you dont know what youre talking about.

Relying on weapon abilities for spammables? Bad players and overland zone questers rely on spamming abilities whether they be class or weapon based regardless you should be using a rotation not relying on one ability to spam. What youre asking for gives zero incentive to make the become better.

Theres a reason why the developer gave us wwapons and weapon abilities, So that we can utilize them in a rotation for DPS.
Stop trying to make eso even more generic.

You say to stop making this game generic except you want sorcs to rely on weapon skill lines like other classes? Especially stamsorc? Ironic because im trying to make them feel unique by giving them a more viable skill to use instead of relying on a skill that anyone can use.

While magsorcs and other mag classes use more magicka skills, it wouldn't hurt to give not just them but stam classes more identity which is a big issue in this game.

Im not sure what your going on about when giving sorcs a spammable doesn't mean they're going to use that skill only, at least decent players won't. It's going to be used within their rotation just like any other class with their own spam ability.

Weapon abilities are there mostly as an alt method or different way to change up your rotation instead of just using them to make up a classes drawbacks only and no other reason.

Idk if you're talking about the same thing or confusing this with something else.

Uh thats usually what a brawler does, is to use weapon abilities- this is why dual weilding, bow and two handed bladed/blunted weapons exist so that stam characters can utilize whats been given to them specifically and this is a main focal point on what seperates magic and stam classes, trying to get stam classes to mirror their magic counterparts would not only hurt balance issues it would make for an even wider gap between magic and stam that many people complain about already.. This is why i said this game is an oxymoron when it comes to classes, and zos got it wrong.

I have no problem clearing veteran content on my stam sorc or my DK, none at all....
Learn to play

Brawlers don't have to be forced to use weapon skills. You also have jabs for stamplar and suprise att for stamblade and Stamdks are also getting their own spammable changed in the pts. The stam morph for a spammable with sorc can be turned into a melee range ability that also has an extra unique effect or debuff on the enemy.

Issue is trying to balance it so it's good in pve but not broken in pvp. As for wep abilities, those aren't going anywhere. Those will still most likely be in rotations at least poison injection and hail and will still most likely be used in pvp esp the 2h skill line.

Again you and a couple others keep talking about skill when it's not even about that at all. It's about class identity, and while it's tough for ZOS to do that, at least they're trying.

Uh yes thats what makes a brawler is a fighter using weapons!!
The dumbest thing zos did was make stam morphs for their magic counterparts, but since you brought up stamplar i will further this to prove my point, stamplar has a spammable but lacks the healing/resource return and high mobility along with CC that stam sorc currently uses including pets and a pet ult that stuns at their disposal, not only adding a spammable to an OP class would be ridiculous but it would be detrimental to balance. Zos looks at how classes opereate in pvp not in pve.

Not once did you offer an alternative to giving something for a spammable, zos has clearly stated before- give and take!
The sorcerer has perfect class identity, magic sorcerer is not a class and stam sorcer is not a class they are archtypes of a pre-existing class. Trying to oppose the original intentions of the developer for their ranged DPS class with out a constructive, informative argument wont help your cause. Saying "i want it" is not good enough.

In pve, when i see some one spam their class spammable i immediately kick them from the group! Rotation is key to sucess no matter if they be stam or magic. I better see weapon abilities being used in my group.

So you kick anyone that dare uses a class spammable like cliff racer or even strife or jabs? That's ridiculous. Idk if I've ever seen anyone that I've grouped up with before even do something like that.

You also keep thinking that people will just use that skill and that skill only. Like the other guy said, do you have any idea what a spammable is? It's what you use once you have all your dots up and any buffs you might need until you reapply them. Same thing applies in PVP.

You keep deluding yourself by saying ZOS looks at how a skill performs in PVP only when that's just wrong. They look at it on both sides but you keep ignoring that and telling yourself otherwise.

Sorcs are losing out on an execute. A weak one, but definitely something with my idea. But as I said before its just an idea. They could rework a different skill into a class spammable instead of fury.

Also saying that sorcs have perfect identity isn't true. While magsorcs definitely have a better identity than other mag classes rn stamsorcs are at the bottom in identity. They really could use some love and this is the first step in doing that.

If i see a person in my trial group spam one ability they get the boot, rotation is needed unless my guild agrees to carry one person.

You can keep thinking zos looks at pve for ability nerfs/buffs all you want, it doesnt change the favct that they themselves on this very forum have stated they look at pvp performance as the indicator for making decisions! This was also stated very clearly right before elsweyr came out... Argue all you want as long as you tell the developer theyre wrong.

Class identy- (this is very easy to define) class themed abilities, its that simple!
the sorcerer is a lightning themed class PERIOD... Every class in eso identifiable with no problem deciphering what they are.
However the warden and crapomancer are two different subjects to identity.
Class Archetypes do not dictate the class identity. You need to learn how to construct a well thought argument to support your position and stop relying on this notion class identity crisis when this term by itself is misused alot on this forum. If you do choose to make an OUTSTANDING argument and maybe the forum mods will pass the inquiry over to the development team for further discussion.

stam frags