Should Sorc finally get their own class spammable?

Rebirthment

I always found it kinda embarrassing that sorcs are the only class that doesn't have a class spammable and have to make it up with force pulse or ele weapon. I know that other classes have different abilities that others don't and have to make up with non class skill lines but to me, not having a unique spammable definitely feels like a lack of class identity since it's the ability that you will be using most of the time and what usually defines that class by quite a bit.

So I was wondering if anyone feels this way and wants both Magsorc and Stamsorc to finally have their own spammable damage dealing ability.

I was thinking of reworking mages fury and converting to a class spammable dealing shock damage with its own built in reverse execute. The first morph could be something like making it ignore x% spell resistance or debuffing the enemy with a unique spell penetration debuff. The stamina morph could be something like sending a gust of wind or cyclone dealing x physical damage to your target and 5 meters around them.

Just an idea but I would like to hear yours if any of you agree

mdb800

I see your point and you have an argument, but , there should be more work done on other spamables to see how they work with other classes first before doing something like this. Mages fury should have a more a diverse morph option than get more "magicka or aoe damage" though. I think one should cause minor vulnerability or minor maim instead of damage on cast, only providing the execute damage if their health is on execute range.

I play mag sorc and would not want to be steered towards a spamables. Really, there should be a rework on "spammables"

ArchMikem

Crystal Frags is kinda sorta the spammable. If you do your rotation enough it procs fairly often.

idk

This seems to be a nerf sorc thread. One wanting to get rid of mages fury.

Stebarnz

You would have to rework the entire class.

Hexys

Just make Fury undodgeable again so it's worth slotting

Lord-Otto

Every class has something missing. Sorc, THE spellcaster class, having to rely on a magic-imbued staff is very thematically fitting.

KillsAllElves

Bad players will always be bad unless they learn to play and develop better skill. This game is an oxymoron when it comes to its classes and players make it worse!

Sorcerer was designed initially with the intent as the ranged caster class with emphasis on >>>range<<<...

Im not reading your statement. And the players who voted yes on the poll are bad overland questers.

Vildebill

Absolutely not. Also nerf sorcs

Kahmel

pug a few dungeons and u'll realize sorcs do have a class spammable xD

Rebirthment

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Bad players will always be bad unless they learn to play and develop better skill. This game is an oxymoron when it comes to its classes and players make it worse!

Sorcerer was designed initially with the intent as the ranged caster class with emphasis on >>>range<<<...

Im not reading your statement. And the players who voted yes on the poll are bad overland questers.

What does this have to do with being bad at the game? And whats wrong with having a range spammable like force pulse but unique to sorc? Not sure if you misunderstood the thread with pvp in mind because thats not what this is about.

Rebirthment

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Every class has something missing. Sorc, THE spellcaster class, having to rely on a magic-imbued staff is very thematically fitting.

And they would still use a magic staff at least magsorcs will. Stamsorcs even now don't use staves because of game mechanics but thematically stamsorcs imo are are still sorcerers but those who fight in melee like your typical spellsword. Not all magic users use a staff you know.

Rebirthment

mdb800 wrote: »

I see your point and you have an argument, but , there should be more work done on other spamables to see how they work with other classes first before doing something like this. Mages fury should have a more a diverse morph option than get more "magicka or aoe damage" though. I think one should cause minor vulnerability or minor maim instead of damage on cast, only providing the execute damage if their health is on execute range.

I play mag sorc and would not want to be steered towards a spamables. Really, there should be a rework on "spammables"

I definitely agree by making fury more useful at least since it's not even worth slotting rn

x48rph

#nerfsorcs

But seriously, sorc has so many other things (which others classes may lack) which give it identity. Every class shouldn't have the same things.

Solariken

I would rather they just make the weapon spammables more impactful and fun to use. "Stamina" classes should be more reliant on weapons in general IMO.

Nerouyn

Not a fan of spammables.

For classes which have one, I generally don't slot it. Except for rare fights where it's kinda necessary.

fastolfv_ESO

they need to make frags go back to the way it was to make it worth it, if not yes we need a spammable, i mean ffs nbs have 3 with op bonus effects attatched to em so why cant the class called the sorcerer have something as basic as a spammable mag ability

KillsAllElves

Rebirthment wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Every class has something missing. Sorc, THE spellcaster class, having to rely on a magic-imbued staff is very thematically fitting.

And they would still use a magic staff at least magsorcs will. Stamsorcs even now don't use staves because of game mechanics but thematically stamsorcs imo are are still sorcerers but those who fight in melee like your typical spellsword. Not all magic users use a staff you know.

Easy, players wanting spammables are usually the one crying for melee ranged abilties because they are bad at countering ranged fighters! Like i said before - bad players will always be bad. If you want spammables because player skill is lacking play a bumplar.

Stam sorcerer is a brawler no way around that.

Rebirthment

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Rebirthment wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Every class has something missing. Sorc, THE spellcaster class, having to rely on a magic-imbued staff is very thematically fitting.

And they would still use a magic staff at least magsorcs will. Stamsorcs even now don't use staves because of game mechanics but thematically stamsorcs imo are are still sorcerers but those who fight in melee like your typical spellsword. Not all magic users use a staff you know.

Easy, players wanting spammables are usually the one crying for melee ranged abilties because they are bad at countering ranged fighters! Like i said before - bad players will always be bad. If you want spammables because player skill is lacking play a bumplar.

Stam sorcerer is a brawler no way around that.

Im not talking about skill but class identity. Im suggesting giving sorcs something that they lacked out of any other class and that is their own unique spammable. I also have no idea what you're going on about with Stamsorc when im not arguing about them not being a brawler class. Im giving them a spammable they can use to help give them some class identity they really need. The stam morph could turn it into a melee range spammable instead if that's what you're saying.

brandonv516

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

they need to make frags go back to the way it was to make it worth it, if not yes we need a spammable, i mean ffs nbs have 3 with op bonus effects attatched to em so why cant the class called the sorcerer have something as basic as a spammable mag ability

Have you ever used Swallow Soul? It hits like a wet noodle and the "OP" heal that follows is a joke.

MashmalloMan

Normally I would agree, but Mag Sorc's have a ton of damage abilities and thats something to consider. I don't know if it's fair to the other classes and their toolkits. It's a huge rabbit hole you have to consider. What reason would Mag Sorcs have to use anything besides class skills. ZOS wants you to have about a 70/30 split between class and universal skills that cover what you miss. You can't say Sorcs don't have damage abilities in spades. In fact, they have so many, that Sorc has 2 playstyles, Pet and non Pet. How many classes can play their spec in 2 different ways like that, especially with such a strong and devided opinion amongst players who hate/love pets.

If Mag Sorc gets a spammable.. Mag DK gets an execute. Mag Templar gets a ranged spammable and a Major Brutality/Sorcery skill. The list goes on and on until every class is exactly the same because everyone wants what they're missing. The fact of the matter is, some classes have good class identity and some don't, Mag Sorcs are near the top of the totem pole in this regard and don't need much changed besides some lame passives.

In terms of damage abilities alone: 2 dots that are aoe/single target (pets), 1 dot/burst (curse), 1 burst (frags), 1 execute (mages fury), 1 aoe dot (lightning splash). All of these abilities have 2 magicka based morphs for a total of 12 magicka morphs. 5/6 ultimate morphs are Magicka based. Compare this to how Warden and Necro are designed, even some of the other base classes. So many morphs wasted and provide little differences.

I hate to rain on the Mag Sorc parade, thats really not my intention, I just don't see it in the cards because of everything else Sorc has. It seems like you'd have to sacrifice something to get a spammable. The pet/non pet divide could be the entire reason Sorc doesn't have a spammable.

If Sorc's get any changes going forward, it should be to buff the other 3/4 playstyles. Stam, Tank and Healers are severely misrepresented in the Sorc's toolkit.

ZOS designed Sorc's originally to be the "ranged spell caster" from inception and have done very little in 6 years to change that status quo.

DK is no longer for just tanking, Templar is no longer just for healing, NB is no longer just a single target DPS spec. In many ways, the original classes have evened out the other roles over the years. We saw some pretty big changes this year. I'd argue Sorc's are behind here.

The most notable changes were Power Surge to a healer morph, that ultimately buffed Mag Sorcs because Crit Surge is much more powerful in comparison. Bound Aegis having an active element for block mitigation which was released like 2+ years ago and only lasts 3 seconds for tanks, underwhelming and uninteresting. Stam Sorc's first new damage ability in 4+ years since hurricane, Bound Armaments which is a copy/paste of NB bow, but worse in practice. Clanfear finally scaling off of max stamina for tanks/stam dd, except the tooltip is so weak it doesn't really matter. Lastly Streak for dynamic scaling.

If we categorized all morphs into respective roles. Tank, Stam DD, Mag DD and Healer. I'm willing to bet the end result would show Sorc abilities and passives are mostly outweighed by the Mag DD role. I'd also be willing to bet there is more Mag DD morphs than any other class in the game. That should be a major problem for ZOS, but they seem to scared to step on anyones toes.

Indoril_Nerevar

They have great passives though.

MasterSpatula

ArchMikem wrote: »

Crystal Frags is kinda sorta the spammable. If you do your rotation enough it procs fairly often.

Spoken like someone whom RNGesus really smiles upon.

Sometimes you get a burst of it proccing on every cast. OTOH, I have, on more than one occasion, counted sixteen casts on the same bar without it proccing. Of course, this being ZOS's RNG, with it's stupendous ability to form patterns, it's generally doing a lot of one or a lot of the other.

Also, to answer the question: If they continue to stripmine the identity out of the class, then yes, Sorcs should have a spammable. If they were to give us some of the class ability back, then no, it's fine the way it is.

Edit: quoted wrong post.

MashmalloMan

Indoril_Nerevar wrote: »

They have great passives though.

Yeah, they're one of the only things that have kept stam sorcs alive this whole time since that's pretty much their biggest asset, some notably strong passives. That isn't to say there are completely weak and useless passives. Some passives could be combined and are too weak to be on their own. There is also very little benefit in the passives to Tank and Healer roles which is a direct representation of ZOS's slow and unwillingness desire to change base classes beyond their original themes.

It's like DK.. Why did they ever need a passive to increase their dots durations and damage to the base level of every other dot in the game (from 8s base to 10s with passive). It served as a must have passive, but it did nothing to make DK dots any different. In fact, their base abilities were weaker because of the passive.

With the recent changes to introducing dot standards. The passive finally makes sense. Most dots do 150% damage of a spammable and last 10s. Their passive now makes their class dots by +33% and last 14s.

This is how passives should work, they should change the status quo. Add to the fact that everything in that tree decreases speed by -30%, thats crazy good and it fits the theme of the class in an interesting way.

For sorcs..

There is a passive for -15% ult cost. Another for -6% cost to abilities. Another for -15% cost after blocking. Another for mag return when your pet dies. These 4 passives could easily be 2. They aren't super interesting, their numerical stat changes you will almost never notice.

There is a passive for +10% mag regen. Another for +20% stam/hp regen. These could be combined into 1. Same scenario.

Combining these passives could make room for passives that actually benefit Tank/Healer roles that are completely missing from the sorcs kit. So yeah, the passives are good, but they're also bad and uninteresting.

Karmanorway

Spammable for stamsorc yes please! As for magsorc lol 95% of your class kit is made for you, aint that enough? xD

YandereGirlfriend

Came into this thinking it would be about stamSorcs to which the answer is a resounding "YES!"

ANYTHING to get that class out of the bland, featureless funk that it's currently in.

As for magSorcs (which I also play)... I actually enjoy Force Pulse (so easy to weave!) and magSorcs have already commandeered literally every other class skill in the toolkit, so I'm inclined to think that they have enough as it is.

That said though, I don't know how you give a spammable to stamSorc and not to magSorc, but at least magSorcs have other viable options to use in the meantime whereas stamSorcs categorically do not.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

sorc's are a aoe/time delay build they are fine a is

Browiseth

i still don't see what's wrong with relying on weapon abilities on a build...

saying this as a stam sorc who relies on flurry as a spammable

Ilithyania

they do have a spammable

streak

brandonv516

Browiseth wrote: »

i still don't see what's wrong with relying on weapon abilities on a build...

saying this as a stam sorc who relies on flurry as a spammable

3 out of 5 of my skills on my front bar are from the destro tree (magblade) because they just work better for my build, so yeah I feel you lol

CASP3R421

or you could get better at playing your sorc