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Should Sorc finally get their own class spammable?
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Rebirthment✭✭✭✭i still don't see what's wrong with relying on weapon abilities on a build...
saying this as a stam sorc who relies on flurry as a spammable
Class identity. Stam sorc definitely needs some love from that and while the bound armament change is nice, it really could be a step forward.0 -
Rebirthment✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »Normally I would agree, but Mag Sorc's have a ton of damage abilities and thats something to consider. I don't know if it's fair to the other classes and their toolkits. It's a huge rabbit hole you have to consider. What reason would Mag Sorcs have to use anything besides class skills. ZOS wants you to have about a 70/30 split between class and universal skills that cover what you miss. You can't say Sorcs don't have damage abilities in spades. In fact, they have so many, that Sorc has 2 playstyles, Pet and non Pet. How many classes can play their spec in 2 different ways like that, especially with such a strong and devided opinion amongst players who hate/love pets.
If Mag Sorc gets a spammable.. Mag DK gets an execute. Mag Templar gets a ranged spammable and a Major Brutality/Sorcery skill. The list goes on and on until every class is exactly the same because everyone wants what they're missing. The fact of the matter is, some classes have good class identity and some don't, Mag Sorcs are near the top of the totem pole in this regard and don't need much changed besides some lame passives.
In terms of damage abilities alone: 2 dots that are aoe/single target (pets), 1 dot/burst (curse), 1 burst (frags), 1 execute (mages fury), 1 aoe dot (lightning splash). All of these abilities have 2 magicka based morphs for a total of 12 magicka morphs. 5/6 ultimate morphs are Magicka based. Compare this to how Warden and Necro are designed, even some of the other base classes. So many morphs wasted and provide little differences.
I hate to rain on the Mag Sorc parade, thats really not my intention, I just don't see it in the cards because of everything else Sorc has. It seems like you'd have to sacrifice something to get a spammable. The pet/non pet divide could be the entire reason Sorc doesn't have a spammable.
If Sorc's get any changes going forward, it should be to buff the other 3/4 playstyles. Stam, Tank and Healers are severely misrepresented in the Sorc's toolkit.
ZOS designed Sorc's originally to be the "ranged spell caster" from inception and have done very little in 6 years to change that status quo.
DK is no longer for just tanking, Templar is no longer just for healing, NB is no longer just a single target DPS spec. In many ways, the original classes have evened out the other roles over the years. We saw some pretty big changes this year. I'd argue Sorc's are behind here.
The most notable changes were Power Surge to a healer morph, that ultimately buffed Mag Sorcs because Crit Surge is much more powerful in comparison. Bound Aegis having an active element for block mitigation which was released like 2+ years ago and only lasts 3 seconds for tanks, underwhelming and uninteresting. Stam Sorc's first new damage ability in 4+ years since hurricane, Bound Armaments which is a copy/paste of NB bow, but worse in practice. Clanfear finally scaling off of max stamina for tanks/stam dd, except the tooltip is so weak it doesn't really matter. Lastly Streak for dynamic scaling.
If we categorized all morphs into respective roles. Tank, Stam DD, Mag DD and Healer. I'm willing to bet the end result would show Sorc abilities and passives are mostly outweighed by the Mag DD role. I'd also be willing to bet there is more Mag DD morphs than any other class in the game. That should be a major problem for ZOS, but they seem to scared to step on anyones toes.
Some really good points here and i agree that the other classes could also use some more class identity too.0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭While the idea isn't a bad one, my concern is as follows:
What skill is removed or fundamentally altered to create this "spammable" class skill?
There are certainly skills my sorcerer doesn't use and will not use because they do not fit his character. But just because I don't use them on this character doesn't mean they should go away and be replaced with something else. I'm pretty darned content with his "spammable" being Elemental Weapon. It works great with Overload and just in general.0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭While the idea isn't a bad one, my concern is as follows:
What skill is removed or fundamentally altered to create this "spammable" class skill?
There are certainly skills my sorcerer doesn't use and will not use because they do not fit his character. But just because I don't use them on this character doesn't mean they should go away and be replaced with something else. I'm pretty darned content with his "spammable" being Elemental Weapon. It works great with Overload and just in general.
Well. I mentioned in a previous post, but there are indeed a lot of morphs and passives that don't do much to change the base ability. The effects could be combined into 1 morph to make way for new abilities. That being said, I don't think they will bother adding more abilities for Mag Sorc like a class spammable, when their class identity is the strongest part of the class. They should be focussing on Healing/Tanking/Stamina.
I don't think Sorcs need to lose anything, in fact I think they stand to gain something if morphs and passives were combined. I think the most worthy candidates are Encase, Crystal Shards, Daedric Mines, and Mages Fury. For ults, Overload and Atro.
Hell, even curse could just last 12s, explode twice, but give +20% pet damage for the duration, but I'd say this is lower on the list since the morphs serve 2 very different purposes as is.
There is so many ways to make this work, judging by ZOS's comments I saw in an interview, they said something along the lines of they're aware players want the 4 main classes revisited, but it's a tricky subject for them because players feel so strongly about them. You can't please everyone. It would be nice if they grew a pair and made some impactful changes.Edited by MashmalloMan on January 27, 2020 10:51PM1 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭Rebirthment wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »Every class has something missing. Sorc, THE spellcaster class, having to rely on a magic-imbued staff is very thematically fitting.
And they would still use a magic staff at least magsorcs will. Stamsorcs even now don't use staves because of game mechanics but thematically stamsorcs imo are are still sorcerers but those who fight in melee like your typical spellsword. Not all magic users use a staff you know.
Easy, players wanting spammables are usually the one crying for melee ranged abilties because they are bad at countering ranged fighters! Like i said before - bad players will always be bad. If you want spammables because player skill is lacking play a bumplar.
Stam sorcerer is a brawler no way around that.
Im not talking about skill but class identity. Im suggesting giving sorcs something that they lacked out of any other class and that is their own unique spammable. I also have no idea what you're going on about with Stamsorc when im not arguing about them not being a brawler class. Im giving them a spammable they can use to help give them some class identity they really need. The stam morph could turn it into a melee range spammable instead if that's what you're saying.
Out of all the classes the sorcerer has by far the best "class identity"! Adding a spammable to a ranged dps class does nothing to help with "class identity".
Stop using the term "class identity", lets be real here, your proposal is easy mode covered by the term "class identity"....
Player skill is lacking...
In case you forgot or didnt know but when Zo$ swings the buff hammer or the nerf hammer theyre looking at how abilities are working in pvp NOT pve- stam sorcers have two sources for mobility, CC and great healing/resource return capability, the last thing stam sorc needs is a class spammable. Youre wanting an already OP class even more OP.
Adding a spammable to sorc is like magplar with incredible mobility while healing when they spam their spammable away...Edited by KillsAllElves on January 28, 2020 12:12AM0 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My opinion's are all PvE only. I don't know enough about PvP balance to weigh in there
Crystal blast is a terrible, useless morph.
This could easily be changed to a spammable.
mages fury is a bad execute. in PvE you can get the same dps by just slotting bound aegis instead of mages wrath. additionally to this, false god made endless fury completely redundant and now a useless morph.
Out in fantasy land, if i could do whatever I wanted I'd change endless fury into a spammable doing the same level of damage as the warden bird, and i'd scale it's damage inverted to Amplitude. So increase the damage against enemies by 1% for every 10% current Health they have lost. the spammable would output exactly the same damage at all health % with Amplitude rank 2.
leave mages wrath as an execute morph.Edited by Tannus15 on January 28, 2020 12:17AM1 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@YandereGirlfriend I'd love to see all sorc lightning skills be changed similar to soul trap so based on max stam / mag it applies physical or shock damage. keep all the effects the same.0 -
Rebirthment✭✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »Every class has something missing. Sorc, THE spellcaster class, having to rely on a magic-imbued staff is very thematically fitting.
And they would still use a magic staff at least magsorcs will. Stamsorcs even now don't use staves because of game mechanics but thematically stamsorcs imo are are still sorcerers but those who fight in melee like your typical spellsword. Not all magic users use a staff you know.
Easy, players wanting spammables are usually the one crying for melee ranged abilties because they are bad at countering ranged fighters! Like i said before - bad players will always be bad. If you want spammables because player skill is lacking play a bumplar.
Stam sorcerer is a brawler no way around that.
Im not talking about skill but class identity. Im suggesting giving sorcs something that they lacked out of any other class and that is their own unique spammable. I also have no idea what you're going on about with Stamsorc when im not arguing about them not being a brawler class. Im giving them a spammable they can use to help give them some class identity they really need. The stam morph could turn it into a melee range spammable instead if that's what you're saying.
Out of all the classes the sorcerer has by far the best "class identity"! Adding a spammable to a ranged dps class does nothing to help with "class identity".
Stop using the term "class identity", lets be real here, your proposal is easy mode covered by the term "class identity"....
Player skill is lacking...
In case you forgot or didnt know but when Zo$ swings the buff hammer or the nerf hammer theyre looking at how abilities are working in pvp NOT pve- stam sorcers have two sources for mobility, CC and great healing/resource return capability, the last thing stam sorc needs is a class spammable. Youre wanting an already OP class even more OP.
Adding a spammable to sorc is like magplar with incredible mobility while healing when they spam their spammable away...
You mean magsorc. And while all magicka classes tend to have better class identity than stam, id say sorc can definitely have a skill or morph to be more viable which also helps them feel even more unique. Especially stamsorc, which desperately needs the love. Though I do think that other classes prob deserve it more.
You aren't being real by saying this is just making the class ez mode. I told you already that this idea is meant for both mag and stamsorc to not have to rely on weapon skills for a spammable with the latter having to rely almost completely on them. And your statement that ZOS looks at how they perform only in PVP and not PVE is just wrong. They have to look at it both ways. And while I didn't think much about this change pvp wise, it could definitely be tweaked to make it balanced but not broken in pvp. It can be tough but it's definitely not impossible.Edited by Rebirthment on January 28, 2020 12:35AM1 -
Rebirthment✭✭✭✭My opinion's are all PvE only. I don't know enough about PvP balance to weigh in there
Crystal blast is a terrible, useless morph.
This could easily be changed to a spammable.
mages fury is a bad execute. in PvE you can get the same dps by just slotting bound aegis instead of mages wrath. additionally to this, false god made endless fury completely redundant and now a useless morph.
Out in fantasy land, if i could do whatever I wanted I'd change endless fury into a spammable doing the same level of damage as the warden bird, and i'd scale it's damage inverted to Amplitude. So increase the damage against enemies by 1% for every 10% current Health they have lost. the spammable would output exactly the same damage at all health % with Amplitude rank 2.
leave mages wrath as an execute morph.
Nice idea! I should've mentioned that crystal blast could really use a change or buff at least because the morph is trash can grade bad.0 -
Grandma✭✭✭✭✭the thing about class spammables it seems are that they are usually situational. Templar jabs are only good in melee for self healing and don't do as much dps on magicka builds- nightblades have better out of house options - DK's is constantly changing - Necros... is fine i guess, it just is a peepee to weave.
Sorcs definitely deserve something- they almost did, with crystal frags being a semi proc spam, but having an in house spam would solidify them as a good pve class for me. they do have a lot of things other classes lack- lots of in house pets, crazy mobility and a lot of pvp offensive utility that has made them the most hated class since the dawn of time- but I think they deserve a spam.
And a freaking sustain passive or skill. forreal magsorc sustain is TRASH. stamsorc seems fine though [that may just be because stam has 0 sustain issues usually]GH / 3/04/2021 / Elemental Catalyst Necromancer0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rebirthment wrote: »My opinion's are all PvE only. I don't know enough about PvP balance to weigh in there
Crystal blast is a terrible, useless morph.
This could easily be changed to a spammable.
mages fury is a bad execute. in PvE you can get the same dps by just slotting bound aegis instead of mages wrath. additionally to this, false god made endless fury completely redundant and now a useless morph.
Out in fantasy land, if i could do whatever I wanted I'd change endless fury into a spammable doing the same level of damage as the warden bird, and i'd scale it's damage inverted to Amplitude. So increase the damage against enemies by 1% for every 10% current Health they have lost. the spammable would output exactly the same damage at all health % with Amplitude rank 2.
leave mages wrath as an execute morph.
Nice idea! I should've mentioned that crystal blast could really use a change or buff at least because the morph is trash can grade bad.
It’s an incredibly strong AoE with a stun. How is that “trash” for those of us not chasing “rotations” and “trial leaderboards” and other competitive stuff? Only reason I don’t use it is because it doesn’t fit the character... love the skill otherwise. Stuff that hits like a damn truck and stuns and AoEs all in one is damn fun!
Hence, the problem of messing with the current iteration of class skills. Regardless of what is opined, a morph matters to someone...0 -
Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Every class is different and shouldnt be cookie cutter across the board. That class has an exucute so this class should.
Magsorc should be centered around mobility, and lining up burst. Having the ability to slot two shields allows us to balance going defense to timing a burst around frag proc.
Its a mechanic that makes sense seeing that we can streak and shield upEdited by Emmagoldman on January 28, 2020 7:06AM0 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭Rebirthment wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »Every class has something missing. Sorc, THE spellcaster class, having to rely on a magic-imbued staff is very thematically fitting.
And they would still use a magic staff at least magsorcs will. Stamsorcs even now don't use staves because of game mechanics but thematically stamsorcs imo are are still sorcerers but those who fight in melee like your typical spellsword. Not all magic users use a staff you know.
Easy, players wanting spammables are usually the one crying for melee ranged abilties because they are bad at countering ranged fighters! Like i said before - bad players will always be bad. If you want spammables because player skill is lacking play a bumplar.
Stam sorcerer is a brawler no way around that.
Im not talking about skill but class identity. Im suggesting giving sorcs something that they lacked out of any other class and that is their own unique spammable. I also have no idea what you're going on about with Stamsorc when im not arguing about them not being a brawler class. Im giving them a spammable they can use to help give them some class identity they really need. The stam morph could turn it into a melee range spammable instead if that's what you're saying.
Out of all the classes the sorcerer has by far the best "class identity"! Adding a spammable to a ranged dps class does nothing to help with "class identity".
Stop using the term "class identity", lets be real here, your proposal is easy mode covered by the term "class identity"....
Player skill is lacking...
In case you forgot or didnt know but when Zo$ swings the buff hammer or the nerf hammer theyre looking at how abilities are working in pvp NOT pve- stam sorcers have two sources for mobility, CC and great healing/resource return capability, the last thing stam sorc needs is a class spammable. Youre wanting an already OP class even more OP.
Adding a spammable to sorc is like magplar with incredible mobility while healing when they spam their spammable away...
You mean magsorc. And while all magicka classes tend to have better class identity than stam, id say sorc can definitely have a skill or morph to be more viable which also helps them feel even more unique. Especially stamsorc, which desperately needs the love. Though I do think that other classes prob deserve it more.
You aren't being real by saying this is just making the class ez mode. I told you already that this idea is meant for both mag and stamsorc to not have to rely on weapon skills for a spammable with the latter having to rely almost completely on them. And your statement that ZOS looks at how they perform only in PVP and not PVE is just wrong. They have to look at it both ways. And while I didn't think much about this change pvp wise, it could definitely be tweaked to make it balanced but not broken in pvp. It can be tough but it's definitely not impossible.
No i meant both versions. Your first sentence leads me to believe you dont know what youre talking about.
Relying on weapon abilities for spammables? Bad players and overland zone questers rely on spamming abilities whether they be class or weapon based regardless you should be using a rotation not relying on one ability to spam. What youre asking for gives zero incentive to make the player become better.
Theres a reason why the developer gave us wwapons and weapon abilities, So that we can utilize them in a rotation for DPS.
Stop trying to make eso even more generic.Edited by KillsAllElves on January 28, 2020 4:05AM0 -
Rebirthment✭✭✭✭Rebirthment wrote: »My opinion's are all PvE only. I don't know enough about PvP balance to weigh in there
Crystal blast is a terrible, useless morph.
This could easily be changed to a spammable.
mages fury is a bad execute. in PvE you can get the same dps by just slotting bound aegis instead of mages wrath. additionally to this, false god made endless fury completely redundant and now a useless morph.
Out in fantasy land, if i could do whatever I wanted I'd change endless fury into a spammable doing the same level of damage as the warden bird, and i'd scale it's damage inverted to Amplitude. So increase the damage against enemies by 1% for every 10% current Health they have lost. the spammable would output exactly the same damage at all health % with Amplitude rank 2.
leave mages wrath as an execute morph.
Nice idea! I should've mentioned that crystal blast could really use a change or buff at least because the morph is trash can grade bad.
It’s an incredibly strong AoE with a stun. How is that “trash” for those of us not chasing “rotations” and “trial leaderboards” and other competitive stuff? Only reason I don’t use it is because it doesn’t fit the character... love the skill otherwise. Stuff that hits like a damn truck and stuns and AoEs all in one is damn fun!
Hence, the problem of messing with the current iteration of class skills. Regardless of what is opined, a morph matters to someone...
Cast time. And while the stun can be good in some situations, it can be a bad thing when in group play since it means tank can't pull mobs all in one area. Scamp has this issue too and it's why sometimes trial groups don't like it.
The last part you said can apply to anything. Skills, sets etc but one or more person won't matter much when ZOS tries to see it as a whole. If whatever change benefits the majority of players over a small minority they will prob make that change.0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »Every class has something missing. Sorc, THE spellcaster class, having to rely on a magic-imbued staff is very thematically fitting.
And they would still use a magic staff at least magsorcs will. Stamsorcs even now don't use staves because of game mechanics but thematically stamsorcs imo are are still sorcerers but those who fight in melee like your typical spellsword. Not all magic users use a staff you know.
Easy, players wanting spammables are usually the one crying for melee ranged abilties because they are bad at countering ranged fighters! Like i said before - bad players will always be bad. If you want spammables because player skill is lacking play a bumplar.
Stam sorcerer is a brawler no way around that.
Im not talking about skill but class identity. Im suggesting giving sorcs something that they lacked out of any other class and that is their own unique spammable. I also have no idea what you're going on about with Stamsorc when im not arguing about them not being a brawler class. Im giving them a spammable they can use to help give them some class identity they really need. The stam morph could turn it into a melee range spammable instead if that's what you're saying.
Out of all the classes the sorcerer has by far the best "class identity"! Adding a spammable to a ranged dps class does nothing to help with "class identity".
Stop using the term "class identity", lets be real here, your proposal is easy mode covered by the term "class identity"....
Player skill is lacking...
In case you forgot or didnt know but when Zo$ swings the buff hammer or the nerf hammer theyre looking at how abilities are working in pvp NOT pve- stam sorcers have two sources for mobility, CC and great healing/resource return capability, the last thing stam sorc needs is a class spammable. Youre wanting an already OP class even more OP.
Adding a spammable to sorc is like magplar with incredible mobility while healing when they spam their spammable away...
You mean magsorc. And while all magicka classes tend to have better class identity than stam, id say sorc can definitely have a skill or morph to be more viable which also helps them feel even more unique. Especially stamsorc, which desperately needs the love. Though I do think that other classes prob deserve it more.
You aren't being real by saying this is just making the class ez mode. I told you already that this idea is meant for both mag and stamsorc to not have to rely on weapon skills for a spammable with the latter having to rely almost completely on them. And your statement that ZOS looks at how they perform only in PVP and not PVE is just wrong. They have to look at it both ways. And while I didn't think much about this change pvp wise, it could definitely be tweaked to make it balanced but not broken in pvp. It can be tough but it's definitely not impossible.
No i meant both versions. Your first sentence leads me to believe you dont know what youre talking about.
Relying on weapon abilities for spammables? Bad players and overland zone questers rely on spamming abilities whether they be class or weapon based regardless you should be using a rotation not relying on one ability to spam. What youre asking for gives zero incentive to make the become better.
Theres a reason why the developer gave us wwapons and weapon abilities, So that we can utilize them in a rotation for DPS.
Stop trying to make eso even more generic.
Why do you have a problem taking his comments so literally. His comments are true. Stam Sorc is lacking class identity and has for a very long time, you're the one that doesn't sound like they know what they're talking about. The term spammable does not mean you don't use a rotation. A "spammable" is something that provides it's damage within 1 GCD so you use it AFTER you've applied all your dots and delayed burst abilities. You use spammables on the off time of all your other stronger abilities that take time to dish out all their damage.
If we have to explain what a spammable is to you then it's hard to take your opinions on the class seriously....
Edit: And he's right with his original reply to you. You were speaking about Mag Sorcs and somehow started talking about Stam Sorcs in the end of your comment. Do not get them confused.Edited by MashmalloMan on January 28, 2020 2:18AM2 -
Rebirthment✭✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »Every class has something missing. Sorc, THE spellcaster class, having to rely on a magic-imbued staff is very thematically fitting.
And they would still use a magic staff at least magsorcs will. Stamsorcs even now don't use staves because of game mechanics but thematically stamsorcs imo are are still sorcerers but those who fight in melee like your typical spellsword. Not all magic users use a staff you know.
Easy, players wanting spammables are usually the one crying for melee ranged abilties because they are bad at countering ranged fighters! Like i said before - bad players will always be bad. If you want spammables because player skill is lacking play a bumplar.
Stam sorcerer is a brawler no way around that.
Im not talking about skill but class identity. Im suggesting giving sorcs something that they lacked out of any other class and that is their own unique spammable. I also have no idea what you're going on about with Stamsorc when im not arguing about them not being a brawler class. Im giving them a spammable they can use to help give them some class identity they really need. The stam morph could turn it into a melee range spammable instead if that's what you're saying.
Out of all the classes the sorcerer has by far the best "class identity"! Adding a spammable to a ranged dps class does nothing to help with "class identity".
Stop using the term "class identity", lets be real here, your proposal is easy mode covered by the term "class identity"....
Player skill is lacking...
In case you forgot or didnt know but when Zo$ swings the buff hammer or the nerf hammer theyre looking at how abilities are working in pvp NOT pve- stam sorcers have two sources for mobility, CC and great healing/resource return capability, the last thing stam sorc needs is a class spammable. Youre wanting an already OP class even more OP.
Adding a spammable to sorc is like magplar with incredible mobility while healing when they spam their spammable away...
You mean magsorc. And while all magicka classes tend to have better class identity than stam, id say sorc can definitely have a skill or morph to be more viable which also helps them feel even more unique. Especially stamsorc, which desperately needs the love. Though I do think that other classes prob deserve it more.
You aren't being real by saying this is just making the class ez mode. I told you already that this idea is meant for both mag and stamsorc to not have to rely on weapon skills for a spammable with the latter having to rely almost completely on them. And your statement that ZOS looks at how they perform only in PVP and not PVE is just wrong. They have to look at it both ways. And while I didn't think much about this change pvp wise, it could definitely be tweaked to make it balanced but not broken in pvp. It can be tough but it's definitely not impossible.
No i meant both versions. Your first sentence leads me to believe you dont know what youre talking about.
Relying on weapon abilities for spammables? Bad players and overland zone questers rely on spamming abilities whether they be class or weapon based regardless you should be using a rotation not relying on one ability to spam. What youre asking for gives zero incentive to make the become better.
Theres a reason why the developer gave us wwapons and weapon abilities, So that we can utilize them in a rotation for DPS.
Stop trying to make eso even more generic.
You say to stop making this game generic except you want sorcs to rely on weapon skill lines like other classes? Especially stamsorc? Ironic because im trying to make them feel unique by giving them a more viable skill to use instead of relying on a skill that anyone can use.
While magsorcs and other mag classes use more magicka skills, it wouldn't hurt to give not just them but stam classes more identity which is a big issue in this game.
Im not sure what your going on about when giving sorcs a spammable doesn't mean they're going to use that skill only, at least decent players won't. It's going to be used within their rotation just like any other class with their own spam ability.
Weapon abilities are there mostly as an alt method or different way to change up your rotation instead of just using them to make up a classes drawbacks only and no other reason.
Idk if you're talking about the same thing or confusing this with something else.2 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Cirantille that's why i recommended keeping mages wrath unchanged. I wouldn't want to lose the option of an execute.
also, whut? fury does like, 3k damage when it's not in execute.
ele weapon or FP does what, 9k? Why would you spam fury? i think you'd do more damage just straight up light attack spamming...
@Starlock is has a cast time and it does slightly more damage than force pulse for slightly more magicka cost. the stun will only work on trash since bosses and stronger adds are immune to cc.but that's not the bad part.
What makes crystal blast bad is the fact that you lose crystal frags. frag procs are really really important to good sorc dps.
I know this is going to blow your mind, since i'm just a dummy *** meta chaser, but i actually tested out a blast build and i can tell you unequivocally that it sucks.
If you're after a strong AOE build for sorc i recommend getting a master lightning staff and running destructive clench. That has a crazy amount of AOE as well as strong single target dps.0 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭Rebirthment wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »Every class has something missing. Sorc, THE spellcaster class, having to rely on a magic-imbued staff is very thematically fitting.
And they would still use a magic staff at least magsorcs will. Stamsorcs even now don't use staves because of game mechanics but thematically stamsorcs imo are are still sorcerers but those who fight in melee like your typical spellsword. Not all magic users use a staff you know.
Easy, players wanting spammables are usually the one crying for melee ranged abilties because they are bad at countering ranged fighters! Like i said before - bad players will always be bad. If you want spammables because player skill is lacking play a bumplar.
Stam sorcerer is a brawler no way around that.
Im not talking about skill but class identity. Im suggesting giving sorcs something that they lacked out of any other class and that is their own unique spammable. I also have no idea what you're going on about with Stamsorc when im not arguing about them not being a brawler class. Im giving them a spammable they can use to help give them some class identity they really need. The stam morph could turn it into a melee range spammable instead if that's what you're saying.
Out of all the classes the sorcerer has by far the best "class identity"! Adding a spammable to a ranged dps class does nothing to help with "class identity".
Stop using the term "class identity", lets be real here, your proposal is easy mode covered by the term "class identity"....
Player skill is lacking...
In case you forgot or didnt know but when Zo$ swings the buff hammer or the nerf hammer theyre looking at how abilities are working in pvp NOT pve- stam sorcers have two sources for mobility, CC and great healing/resource return capability, the last thing stam sorc needs is a class spammable. Youre wanting an already OP class even more OP.
Adding a spammable to sorc is like magplar with incredible mobility while healing when they spam their spammable away...
You mean magsorc. And while all magicka classes tend to have better class identity than stam, id say sorc can definitely have a skill or morph to be more viable which also helps them feel even more unique. Especially stamsorc, which desperately needs the love. Though I do think that other classes prob deserve it more.
You aren't being real by saying this is just making the class ez mode. I told you already that this idea is meant for both mag and stamsorc to not have to rely on weapon skills for a spammable with the latter having to rely almost completely on them. And your statement that ZOS looks at how they perform only in PVP and not PVE is just wrong. They have to look at it both ways. And while I didn't think much about this change pvp wise, it could definitely be tweaked to make it balanced but not broken in pvp. It can be tough but it's definitely not impossible.
No i meant both versions. Your first sentence leads me to believe you dont know what youre talking about.
Relying on weapon abilities for spammables? Bad players and overland zone questers rely on spamming abilities whether they be class or weapon based regardless you should be using a rotation not relying on one ability to spam. What youre asking for gives zero incentive to make the become better.
Theres a reason why the developer gave us wwapons and weapon abilities, So that we can utilize them in a rotation for DPS.
Stop trying to make eso even more generic.
You say to stop making this game generic except you want sorcs to rely on weapon skill lines like other classes? Especially stamsorc? Ironic because im trying to make them feel unique by giving them a more viable skill to use instead of relying on a skill that anyone can use.
While magsorcs and other mag classes use more magicka skills, it wouldn't hurt to give not just them but stam classes more identity which is a big issue in this game.
Im not sure what your going on about when giving sorcs a spammable doesn't mean they're going to use that skill only, at least decent players won't. It's going to be used within their rotation just like any other class with their own spam ability.
Weapon abilities are there mostly as an alt method or different way to change up your rotation instead of just using them to make up a classes drawbacks only and no other reason.
Idk if you're talking about the same thing or confusing this with something else.
Uh thats usually what a brawler does, is to use weapon abilities- this is why dual weilding, bow and two handed bladed/blunted weapons exist so that stam characters can utilize whats been given to them specifically and this is a main focal point on what seperates magic and stam classes, trying to get stam classes to mirror their magic counterparts would not only hurt balance issues it would make for an even wider gap between magic and stam that many people complain about already.. This is why i said this game is an oxymoron when it comes to classes, and zos got it wrong.
I have no problem clearing veteran content on my stam sorc or my DK, none at all....
Learn to playEdited by KillsAllElves on January 28, 2020 6:03AM0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Whoa. As of this post I see Yes (65 votes), No (65 votes), Other (12 votes). Split votes
I play all classes but I main a Mag Sorcerer.
One of the things about Sorc is that it is the only class without a spammable. That is its class identity - a focus on weapon skills for a spammable, which is then supplemented by frequently mixing them with Crystal Frags or Bound Armaments. I’ve never felt like Sorcerer needed a spammable.
However, it’s dissapointing how little use I see of Mages Fury in PvE which serves as an execute range spammable.
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Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭what could be cool was a skill that basically summons quickly a bound weapon and slashes you with it to stay within the sorc theme1 -
Cirantille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Cirantille that's why i recommended keeping mages wrath unchanged. I wouldn't want to lose the option of an execute.
also, whut? fury does like, 3k damage when it's not in execute.
ele weapon or FP does what, 9k? Why would you spam fury? i think you'd do more damage just straight up light attack spamming...
@Starlock is has a cast time and it does slightly more damage than force pulse for slightly more magicka cost. the stun will only work on trash since bosses and stronger adds are immune to cc.but that's not the bad part.
What makes crystal blast bad is the fact that you lose crystal frags. frag procs are really really important to good sorc dps.
I know this is going to blow your mind, since i'm just a dummy *** meta chaser, but i actually tested out a blast build and i can tell you unequivocally that it sucks.
If you're after a strong AOE build for sorc i recommend getting a master lightning staff and running destructive clench. That has a crazy amount of AOE as well as strong single target dps.
Yes, I use Ele in PvE for the boost0 -
Rasande_Robin✭✭✭✭Sorc basically have monopoly on the best skill ingame, streak. What is wrong with another guild/weapon spammable?PC/EU: Orcana "something"-stone0 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭All pets should be summons like necro.
Cant target unless its a bomb like blastbones.0 -
ATomiX69✭✭✭✭Crystal Frags is kinda sorta the spammable. If you do your rotation enough it procs fairly often.
I wouldnt put frags in the same category as lets say funnel health from nightblade, Id more or less compare it to assassins will, It procs after you do something (light attacks for NB, use magic abilties for sorc) and I dont think it can proc off itself either when being hard-casted.smurf account
New PvP content when?
Better cyro performance when?
Farmed about 3 GO's worth of AP
world 3rd immortal redeemer (22.02.18) and other not noteworthy trifectas1 -
Rebirthment✭✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »Rebirthment wrote: »Every class has something missing. Sorc, THE spellcaster class, having to rely on a magic-imbued staff is very thematically fitting.
And they would still use a magic staff at least magsorcs will. Stamsorcs even now don't use staves because of game mechanics but thematically stamsorcs imo are are still sorcerers but those who fight in melee like your typical spellsword. Not all magic users use a staff you know.
Easy, players wanting spammables are usually the one crying for melee ranged abilties because they are bad at countering ranged fighters! Like i said before - bad players will always be bad. If you want spammables because player skill is lacking play a bumplar.
Stam sorcerer is a brawler no way around that.
Im not talking about skill but class identity. Im suggesting giving sorcs something that they lacked out of any other class and that is their own unique spammable. I also have no idea what you're going on about with Stamsorc when im not arguing about them not being a brawler class. Im giving them a spammable they can use to help give them some class identity they really need. The stam morph could turn it into a melee range spammable instead if that's what you're saying.
Out of all the classes the sorcerer has by far the best "class identity"! Adding a spammable to a ranged dps class does nothing to help with "class identity".
Stop using the term "class identity", lets be real here, your proposal is easy mode covered by the term "class identity"....
Player skill is lacking...
In case you forgot or didnt know but when Zo$ swings the buff hammer or the nerf hammer theyre looking at how abilities are working in pvp NOT pve- stam sorcers have two sources for mobility, CC and great healing/resource return capability, the last thing stam sorc needs is a class spammable. Youre wanting an already OP class even more OP.
Adding a spammable to sorc is like magplar with incredible mobility while healing when they spam their spammable away...
You mean magsorc. And while all magicka classes tend to have better class identity than stam, id say sorc can definitely have a skill or morph to be more viable which also helps them feel even more unique. Especially stamsorc, which desperately needs the love. Though I do think that other classes prob deserve it more.
You aren't being real by saying this is just making the class ez mode. I told you already that this idea is meant for both mag and stamsorc to not have to rely on weapon skills for a spammable with the latter having to rely almost completely on them. And your statement that ZOS looks at how they perform only in PVP and not PVE is just wrong. They have to look at it both ways. And while I didn't think much about this change pvp wise, it could definitely be tweaked to make it balanced but not broken in pvp. It can be tough but it's definitely not impossible.
No i meant both versions. Your first sentence leads me to believe you dont know what youre talking about.
Relying on weapon abilities for spammables? Bad players and overland zone questers rely on spamming abilities whether they be class or weapon based regardless you should be using a rotation not relying on one ability to spam. What youre asking for gives zero incentive to make the become better.
Theres a reason why the developer gave us wwapons and weapon abilities, So that we can utilize them in a rotation for DPS.
Stop trying to make eso even more generic.
You say to stop making this game generic except you want sorcs to rely on weapon skill lines like other classes? Especially stamsorc? Ironic because im trying to make them feel unique by giving them a more viable skill to use instead of relying on a skill that anyone can use.
While magsorcs and other mag classes use more magicka skills, it wouldn't hurt to give not just them but stam classes more identity which is a big issue in this game.
Im not sure what your going on about when giving sorcs a spammable doesn't mean they're going to use that skill only, at least decent players won't. It's going to be used within their rotation just like any other class with their own spam ability.
Weapon abilities are there mostly as an alt method or different way to change up your rotation instead of just using them to make up a classes drawbacks only and no other reason.
Idk if you're talking about the same thing or confusing this with something else.
Uh thats usually what a brawler does, is to use weapon abilities- this is why dual weilding, bow and two handed bladed/blunted weapons exist so that stam characters can utilize whats been given to them specifically and this is a main focal point on what seperates magic and stam classes, trying to get stam classes to mirror their magic counterparts would not only hurt balance issues it would make for an even wider gap between magic and stam that many people complain about already.. This is why i said this game is an oxymoron when it comes to classes, and zos got it wrong.
I have no problem clearing veteran content on my stam sorc or my DK, none at all....
Learn to play
Brawlers don't have to be forced to use weapon skills. You also have jabs for stamplar and suprise att for stamblade and Stamdks are also getting their own spammable changed in the pts. The stam morph for a spammable with sorc can be turned into a melee range ability that also has an extra unique effect or debuff on the enemy.
Issue is trying to balance it so it's good in pve but not broken in pvp. As for wep abilities, those aren't going anywhere. Those will still most likely be in rotations at least poison injection and hail and will still most likely be used in pvp esp the 2h skill line.
Again you and a couple others keep talking about skill when it's not even about that at all. It's about class identity, and while it's tough for ZOS to do that, at least they're trying.Edited by Rebirthment on January 28, 2020 1:24PM0 -
Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Reduce shield cost, make the twilight a single bar temporary pet that gives a hot and major sorcery, then turn crit surge into a lightning bolt spammable.
That would solve multiple sorc issues at once and also make them less brainlessly tanky with that s&b block cast bird heal build.Edited by Urvoth on January 28, 2020 1:26PM0