You can look it up in the patch notes: no, they don't remove the cast time. It is too early for such kind of change anyway. Bigger changes like that usually happen later.

My main is Stam Dk and I have done all those things we had to do the last two years - including Venomous Claw and even Noxious Breath as spammable! I actually like the live version of Stonefist in PVE. It makes the rotation more interesting, it is easy to weave and is very good in terms of sustain. I don't like the coming changes, not only because of cast time, but because every fourth cast will be wasted and it makes the rotation annoying. Not sure if it will work with static rotations, you'll probably have to go dynamic to keep 100% uptime on the stacks.

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Current live/pts iterations are a dps loss and should just be given to dk tanks since breath is gone

bummer....

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Pvp stonefist feels bad and the buff isn't enough to make up for that. Though it is neat throwing poop at ppl who forget dks have a range (ish) spammable.

I'd still argue that a ranged spammable is thematically inappropriate and a waste of its power budget.

You're dead right about the dead cast though, didn't even think of that at first, PvP too if your opponent has Major Evasion, or if you were actually trying to rely on having range. Oh, and the dead cast has a cast time, lovely.

I don't understand why it can't just be instant cast melee. The secondary effects (third cast stun for PvP and stagger damage for PvE) aren't amazing, but would be good enough if the ability actually felt good to use.

ecru wrote: »

My biggest annoyance with stone giant isn't just the cast time, but that it's yet another DK ability that doesn't work with Corrosive. At least the current Stone Giant will work with corrosive with every cast, now only 3 out of 4 casts of Stone Giant will benefit from Corrosive. The fact that it's aoe damage also means that initial cast will do less damage, which means that overall it's a damage nerf, despite the range buff. I really wish they would classify the aoe as direct damage so it doesn't end up being a damage nerf, or increase the damage of the aoe cast so it does 15-20% more damage than the direct damage component.

By the way, why does corresive still costs 200 ulti? At least it should be reduced to 160

I mean it is not a hard hitting skill, it just ignore physical Direct dmg, it has a weak DoT associated, it limits incoming dmg a lot but dodge roll does quite the same and costs 0 ulti, cloak does the same and even better, and sorc pets also do the same.

And that's the good morph

Xvorg wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

My biggest annoyance with stone giant isn't just the cast time, but that it's yet another DK ability that doesn't work with Corrosive. At least the current Stone Giant will work with corrosive with every cast, now only 3 out of 4 casts of Stone Giant will benefit from Corrosive. The fact that it's aoe damage also means that initial cast will do less damage, which means that overall it's a damage nerf, despite the range buff. I really wish they would classify the aoe as direct damage so it doesn't end up being a damage nerf, or increase the damage of the aoe cast so it does 15-20% more damage than the direct damage component.

By the way, why does corresive still costs 200 ulti? At least it should be reduced to 160

I mean it is not a hard hitting skill, it just ignore physical Direct dmg, it has a weak DoT associated, it limits incoming dmg a lot but dodge roll does quite the same and costs 0 ulti, cloak does the same and even better, and sorc pets also do the same.

And that's the good morph

yes. i'd still argue its too high when it affects DoT as well.... but now its only the direct damage? 200 is ridicolous.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

If U25 goes live like that stamDK is dead class next patch, 100%. Simply no reason to play - stonefist became even worse, dizzy nerfed, leap nerfed, volatile nerfed, no slightest compensation for all those nerfs. What's left? Battle roar? Don't tell me about minor brutality, stamplar has plain +6% to WD without necessity to proc it. Even +10% to block is no longer unique DK feature o_O

people might play for fun. OMG REALLY

xylena wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Pvp stonefist feels bad and the buff isn't enough to make up for that. Though it is neat throwing poop at ppl who forget dks have a range (ish) spammable.

I'd still argue that a ranged spammable is thematically inappropriate and a waste of its power budget.

You're dead right about the dead cast though, didn't even think of that at first, PvP too if your opponent has Major Evasion, or if you were actually trying to rely on having range. Oh, and the dead cast has a cast time, lovely.

I don't understand why it can't just be instant cast melee. The secondary effects (third cast stun for PvP and stagger damage for PvE) aren't amazing, but would be good enough if the ability actually felt good to use.

absolutly agree, melee spammable, for melee class.
current stonefists at live and pts is horrible trash because doesn't fit stamdk's nature in ugly ranged form

It was dead before, it'll be dead again. If anything, it makes even less sense now than it did before.
Now it's not just a stacking mechanic, it's a combination mode-swap thing where it does one thing every 4th cast and something different the other three, the damage is all over the place because of that "standards" for damage they have and it being two different types + having secondary effects on one "mode" and not the other...
Man, no one, read: NO ONE is going to want to juggle this BS in the middle of combat. Not in PvE, and certainly not in PvP.
As it stands now, just another dead skill to add to the list.

Here's an idea, use the wild haymaker punch animation and let the DK SLAM THE **** out of their opponent with a stone-covered hand.
Make it a melee stamina spammable!

Morph 1: Less damage, adds "stagger" mechanic back in.
This morph is optimized for those that want to use an "Attrition" playstyle heavy with DoTs.
Max three stacks, 3 second duration, refreshes with each hit. NO STUN, NO STACK REMOVAL.
(This should go without saying, but if the flavor of the ability is about building stacks on an opponent, then using the skill as designed should never REMOVE them.)

Morph 2: Slightly higher damage, straight spammable. No secondary effects watering down the power budget.
No stun is needed here, DK already has Fossilize and while it does cost Mag, Stam DKs don't use their mag for much anyway so it's not a big deal.

Xvorg wrote: »

Because stone giant is a stam skill, while obsidian shard is (still)a magicka skill and there are some healers that still use it.

Make Molten Weapons not garbage. Make the already support-focused Igneous Weapons heal, no more awkward need to target something with a stun in order to burst heal an ally. Make Molten Armaments buff more forms of damage, no more awkward fully-charged heavy attack requirement.

Xvorg wrote: »

LinearParadox wrote: »

It was dead before, it'll be dead again. If anything, it makes even less sense now than it did before.
Now it's not just a stacking mechanic, it's a combination mode-swap thing where it does one thing every 4th cast and something different the other three, the damage is all over the place because of that "standards" for damage they have and it being two different types + having secondary effects on one "mode" and not the other...
Man, no one, read: NO ONE is going to want to juggle this BS in the middle of combat. Not in PvE, and certainly not in PvP.
As it stands now, just another dead skill to add to the list.

Here's an idea, use the wild haymaker punch animation and let the DK SLAM THE **** out of their opponent with a stone-covered hand.
Make it a melee stamina spammable!

Morph 1: Less damage, adds "stagger" mechanic back in.
This morph is optimized for those that want to use an "Attrition" playstyle heavy with DoTs.
Max three stacks, 3 second duration, refreshes with each hit. NO STUN, NO STACK REMOVAL.
(This should go without saying, but if the flavor of the ability is about building stacks on an opponent, then using the skill as designed should never REMOVE them.)

Morph 2: Slightly higher damage, straight spammable. No secondary effects watering down the power budget.
No stun is needed here, DK already has Fossilize and while it does cost Mag, Stam DKs don't use their mag for much anyway so it's not a big deal.

What about healer DKs?

Because stone giant is a stam skill, while obsidian shard is (still)a magicka skill and there are some healers that still use it.

Eh, that's a fair point, but remember that you can't fix(change) something without upsetting at least someone.
I'm sure that someone, somewhere, has been able to make use of/build around/learn muscle memory for every janky mechanic/skill that's been in the game, and it's unfortunate when things get changed for that person, but the other 99% of people benefit.
It's not that I don't care about the people that're upset by changes, it's that a change for the greater good is still a change in the right direction, and the fact is that O-shard is a clunky, unreliable, janky heal. It requires targeting -but not the ally, an enemy- it's a telegraphed projectile so it's dodgeable and unreliable in PvP, it's smart targeted in a radius around the caster and not the point of impact, it's expensive... it's just not a good skill. Usable, maybe, but not good.
Sometimes you have to prune the bad to make room for something better. Ex. lose the lousy heal and let it be something else, and then say "Hey, MagDK needs a native heal for those that wanna play it support." That kinda thing.
As a side note, Healing Ward is very strong right now and pretty much any class can effectively support using a combination of that and Combat Prayer, and healers should have a Resto staff anyway. Not that that means DK 'shouldn't have' a healing skill or whatever, just saying.

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

That's what we want for the warrior (stamina) dragon knight.

No hand motions without weapons (left hand weapon is visible during animation in the clip), no levitating orbs, no ranged atks no weird and complicated mechanics that buff the group instead of the individual.

Give us that Zos, and move on to some other feature that needs looking at.

THIS. That's exactly the kinda motion I had in mind. A spinning dunk, a wild haymaker, a massive punch, that's the kinda kinetic and forceful thing StamDK needs!
I don't feel quite as strongly about the weapon needing to or needing to not disappear, but I'd love something like this either way.

xbobx15 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

If U25 goes live like that stamDK is dead class next patch, 100%. Simply no reason to play - stonefist became even worse, dizzy nerfed, leap nerfed, volatile nerfed, no slightest compensation for all those nerfs. What's left? Battle roar? Don't tell me about minor brutality, stamplar has plain +6% to WD without necessity to proc it. Even +10% to block is no longer unique DK feature o_O

people might play for fun. OMG REALLY

There's nothing "Fun" about playing with a gimped skill. There's nothing "Fun" about working harder for less return than other classes. There's nothing "fun" about imbalance. If you think playing with a handicap is "fun" then go play that way yourself. Leave half your skill bar empty or run around with no armor or something. The rest of us are busy working towards balance.

xylena wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Because stone giant is a stam skill, while obsidian shard is (still)a magicka skill and there are some healers that still use it.

Make Molten Weapons not garbage. Make the already support-focused Igneous Weapons heal, no more awkward need to target something with a stun in order to burst heal an ally. Make Molten Armaments buff more forms of damage, no more awkward fully-charged heavy attack requirement.

Excellent idea. It's a relic of another time, when Heavy Attacks were damage-oriented rather than sustain-oriented. At the very least it should be updated to reflect the current game design and meta, and while they're at it, yeah, some QoL updates to make it not a trash skill would be nice.

xbobx15 wrote: »

"There's nothing "Fun" about playing with a gimped skill. There's nothing "Fun" about working harder for less return than other classes. There's nothing "fun" about imbalance. If you think playing with a handicap is "fun" then go play that way yourself. Leave half your skill bar empty or run around with no armor or something. The rest of us are busy working towards "

Many casual people don't care. hardcore people that do nothing else in life but play this game 10 hours a day are the ones that dwell over every little thing. Take a step back and realize it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things then you will find more fun and enjoyment in the things you do.

Seems to me, you made this game a job.

I play about an hour a night and currently working on my last trial skin and IR. IDK what you think this game takes at end game. A lot of us there still have mains and fond memories of enjoying that class. Just because I run different content doesn't mean I don't have a love for the casual. Tbh endgame players want balance and worth brought to the game. How does that hurt people who aren't aware of these things?

Tyrobag wrote: »

I really don't see why its so hard. The ability is called Stonefist, it practically makes itself..

Remove the pre-cast stomp thing. Keep the stagger stacking mechanic. Make the ability melee. Keep the same approximate damage.
Strike 1: Pull your right fist back, stone pulls up from the ground to form around it, you uppercut the enemy and the stone dissipates, your hand returns to normal position.
Strike 2: Same as strike 1, but with left hand.
Strike 3: You bring back your right hand, stone forms around your hand in the shape of a large hammer, you swing it down on the enemy, damaging them and causing the AoE portion of the attack ZoS seems to want.

We know this is 100% possible, since necromancer's spammable works in a similar manner. It also makes more sense to have the attack build up to an AoE, rather than being a weird upfront pre-cast that works in a completely different range then the rest of the ability.

Seeing as DKs are supposed to be using Akaviri martial arts, you'd think that the stamina abilities would have some feeling of that. The current stonefist/stone giant does not.

Nobody will care if they leave obsidian shard as it is (which I assume is the reason they're so hardset on making all of the morphs ranged.)

Its still, even with the stagger buff and minor brutality, a damage loss to comparable spammables.