Dusk_Coven wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Thread is interesting, seems many know that forcing pvp on pve player’s is a bad thing but at the same time can’t fathom why forcing pve on pvp players is also bad. It’s suddenly different. If one thing is blatantly obvious it’s how bias the eso community can be.

OK. Stop all your PvE in Cyrodiil. Just ignore those guards at the fort you're trying to take.

Nice strawman.

Not at all. The point is PvE components are basically inescapable and necessary for the game. Not just to make Cyrodiil viable but as reward gates for almost everything.
And you just feel forced to PvE because you want PvE stuff. You can just NOT want it.
Just as PvE people feel forced to do vMA hundreds of times to get that one specific weapon. They can just not want it and use something else.
Saying PvPers are forced to PvE is not valid. You are not forced to want something and there are enough options in the game to succeed at what you want to do.
You want PvE gear in PvP? Suggest it to ZOS. And chances are they'll still gate it behind PvE, just in a PvP zone like Cyro or IC. If they gated it behind strictly PvP elements like BG, it'll get exploited with win-trading or other shenanigans.
(This human element is also why crafting will probably not have bis gear -- because you don't have to do anything for someone else to just hand it to you).

Again you’re missing the point.

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Then why are so many people from my raid guilds in Cyrodil non-stop right now?

After the event is over, ask yourself why they disappeared.

^^^

Exactly this...

If a PvP player is truly looking for a challenge they wouldn't be wanting to fight PVE players. They would not suggest mixing of PVE and PvP, if they are any good at all they also realize that PVE players are not geared, do not have their skill points distributed properly, have not practiced the skills necessary to engage successfully in PvP. The only conclusion I can come to is that people who are wanting this type of mix, that being PvP vs PVE are only looking for easy victims.

There are far more PVE players than PvP players, it's always been this way in all MMOs except those strictly PvP.

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One of the reasons that PvE players might not be interested in doing PvP is that they don't find other players at their level that is easy for them to kill. By making PvP areas that other PvE players are there they can find other players at their level. If you make PvP areas that other PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE you can achieve this.

I don’t know where you are going with this OP, Cx.

PvP is not going to hurt you. I never understood why people are so reluctant to play. It is just a game and you try to beat other players and meet the objectives in the content. That’s all....

This would be like people wanting to loot bosses in dungeons in PvE, without having to try and complete it properly.

PvP is fun and relaxing. There are no preset mechanics when playing a against multiple peeps in eso.

ESO’s version of PvP is also very forgiving compared to a lot of other games. Which is more then welcoming to everyone.

Just start like you did with any other activities in eso. I am sure your characters have died in dungeons, so what is the problem ?

I do PvP from time to time. However, I enjoy playing the map, taking strategic objectives, doing suicidal diversions etc to help another band of my alliance grab the scroll. I get irritated if I end up in an undisciplined group that ignores the crown or a crown that gets distracted by an unkillable tank.

The individual level 1v1 of PvP holds little interest for me but what really limits my pvp aspect there is the crummy server performance, loading screens and disconnects. A death in Cyro wastes game time for me. They'd have to improve performance there massively if they wanted to force it on me.

I feel damn sorry for people who really enjoy pvp. I'd leave if I had to live with thay every day.

what they can do, open a new server for "PURE" pvp rpg, and see how it goes? percentages of pvp players maybe so small where the Guild Wars 1 and 2 had better format set up than ESO's pvp.

this made some players very upset by forcing PVP event when many players need to earn tickets, choice was to skip it or quit since they cant reach any questgivers in any conflicted towns in Cyrodiil.
seem most would wait for next event without any pvp required.

those guys camping near questgivers are ganking griefers.

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

I’m not going to go back and forth with people, especially people that find the need to be right instead of actually listening. But in this case people don’t realize words have different denotations and even connotations, I’ll give an example of why it’s important to realize that.

For an example forced has multiple meanings. Which can be making something a necessity, unavoidable, inescapable or something that is imposed.

So in this case if it’s necessary for a pvp player to get pve gear to stay competitive it becomes a necessity. If the only way to obtain that gear is by pveing then it is also unavoidable/inescapable. And since we have no choice in the matter it is imposed regardless of how we feel about it. The same thing would go for a pve player having to do pvp in order to get something.

Either way forcing players in general to do things they don’t like is bad. It’s that simple. Many of you try to act like you’re for everyone playing how they want but really you only care about playing how YOU want. The minute something doesn’t align with your opinion you make up every little excuse about how it’s different.

You are right, forcing anyone to do what they don't want to do is wrong, and will be the base cause for people leaving this game.

I would argue that PvP players shouldn't be using any PVE gear at all. Just ban it in all instances of PvP play and consider the issue closed. I would also argue that PVE players shouldn't be required to engage in PvP for event tickets.

Forcing the mix of play styles will cause people to leave the game. Regardless of whatever an individuals feelings are on the matter, people will leave, they have done so in every MMO that has ever attempted to force their idea of how people should play their game. People do not want to feel bad, and if playing a certain way does they will look for their entertainment, elsewhere. It's really just that simple.

BackStabeth wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

I’m not going to go back and forth with people, especially people that find the need to be right instead of actually listening. But in this case people don’t realize words have different denotations and even connotations, I’ll give an example of why it’s important to realize that.

For an example forced has multiple meanings. Which can be making something a necessity, unavoidable, inescapable or something that is imposed.

So in this case if it’s necessary for a pvp player to get pve gear to stay competitive it becomes a necessity. If the only way to obtain that gear is by pveing then it is also unavoidable/inescapable. And since we have no choice in the matter it is imposed regardless of how we feel about it. The same thing would go for a pve player having to do pvp in order to get something.

Either way forcing players in general to do things they don’t like is bad. It’s that simple. Many of you try to act like you’re for everyone playing how they want but really you only care about playing how YOU want. The minute something doesn’t align with your opinion you make up every little excuse about how it’s different.

You are right, forcing anyone to do what they don't want to do is wrong, and will be the base cause for people leaving this game.

I would argue that PvP players shouldn't be using any PVE gear at all. Just ban it in all instances of PvP play and consider the issue closed. I would also argue that PVE players shouldn't be required to engage in PvP for event tickets.

Forcing the mix of play styles will cause people to leave the game. Regardless of whatever an individuals feelings are on the matter, people will leave, they have done so in every MMO that has ever attempted to force their idea of how people should play their game. People do not want to feel bad, and if playing a certain way does they will look for their entertainment, elsewhere. It's really just that simple.

Pve things should be acquired from pve and pvp should be from pvp. There’s multiple games that did it that way/do it that way. At least the things that are considered the best is usually found in their respective corner.

I don’t mind doing either but it’s a problem when it’s forced on the players. I don’t see why there couldn’t be pve and pvp equivalents of sets either but that’s a different story.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

BackStabeth wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Then why are so many people from my raid guilds in Cyrodil non-stop right now?

After the event is over, ask yourself why they disappeared.

^^^

Exactly this...

If a PvP player is truly looking for a challenge they wouldn't be wanting to fight PVE players. They would not suggest mixing of PVE and PvP, if they are any good at all they also realize that PVE players are not geared, do not have their skill points distributed properly, have not practiced the skills necessary to engage successfully in PvP. The only conclusion I can come to is that people who are wanting this type of mix, that being PvP vs PVE are only looking for easy victims.

There are far more PVE players than PvP players, it's always been this way in all MMOs except those strictly PvP.

Well I mean by that logic then PVE is a disaster post events.

If a PvP player is truly looking for a challenge they wouldn't be wanting to fight PVE players.

Why? Because you say so? PVE players are just as able as anyone else.

They would not suggest mixing of PVE and PvP, if they are any good at all they also realize that PVE players are not geared

Is that our fault now too? If you know you need different gear for pvp, you're choosing not to wear it. It takes no effort to craft impen Julianos/Hundings in impen and that's more than enough for your basic pvp goals.

It's hard to take this seriously when you have to gear up for PVE just like PVP but all of a sudden impenetrable is this impossible mountain to climb. It's an excuse, nothing more.

do not have their skill points distributed properly

Don't all the trials have a CP preference just like PVP would? Not sure how this is different from PVE or why it's such an obstacle to surpass. You don't even need a shrine to change CP, it's the cheapest easiest thing to change.

have not practiced the skills necessary to engage successfully in PvP.

So they would need pvp practice to be successful in PVP but you have to pvp to practice. It sounds like a vicious cycle!

The only conclusion I can come to is that people who are wanting this type of mix, that being PvP vs PVE are only looking for easy victims.


You're making the assumption as someone that has very limited pvp experience if any. If anyone is making themselves a victim it's people that know the requirements, choose to ignore them, and then continue to cry about it.

Meh, you couldn't possibly know the extent of my PvP experience. Allow me to express just a tiny little bit of my experience.

I started playing MMOs with the second one, and the first truly popular one ever created, that being Ultima Online which was an open world, no dungeon instances, anyone could be killed or stolen from anywhere in the game. I started playing beta, before it's release because I also happened to know some of the developers personally. At the time I was a WAN manager, and living in the Silicon Valley area so I knew a lot of people involved in the gaming industry and culture.

I have progressed for over two decades, almost exclusively playing PvP in any MMO I engaged in, up and until the point I lost several thousands of USD worth of ships in EVE Online, then it really hit me, I haven't been enjoying my gaming, my PvP for a very long time and only growing more angry about how people treat each other, how PvP has evolved over time in these games. I am much more happy, and enjoy my gaming time far more now than ever before because I have carved PvP out of my entertainment. That's just very simply how I have evolved over time. But there was a time when I felt like I needed a PvP fix, that I needed to pit myself against the skills of another player. That time is long gone, I no longer need to test myself in that particular way, I have had decades of that, literally, since 1997.

I have said this before, but to clarify my statements specifically for your benefit I will do so once again.

People who do not PvP inherently will be weaker than those that do, even if given the same hardware, the same equipment, the same internet speed, the same everything. For that reason alone people who play PvP wanting to engage in a fight with people who are strictly PVE means that they want to fight weaker opponents, what else could it mean?

To further explain my comments, consider this.

PVE requires a very different skill point distribution than PvP. PvP players realize this just by virtue of the fact they are engaged in PvP. For a PvP player who wants to fight a PVE player, that means they want to fight someone who does not have their skill points distributed in a way that they might be a challenge, they want to engage in a fight with a weaker opponent.

PVE required different equipment than PvP, while some of the equipment might be the same, the combinations and reasons for using different sets is different. For a PvP player to want to engage in a fight with a PVE player who's gear is set up for PVE play, that means they want to fight a weaker opponent.

It takes learning PvP tactics, experience, learning different skills to be effective in PvP play. PVE players do not have this experience, nor if they are strictly PVE player, do they ever learn them. For a PvP player to want to engage in a fight with a PVE player, they not only know this fact but seek to use that to their advantage and fight, a weaker opponent.

I might also add that people who strictly play PvP would be horrible at PVE, because they lack the skills, because they lack the skill point distribution, because they lack the gear, the knowledge and experience, etc, etc etc....

The only conclusion I can come up with, for people who are engaged in PvP to want to fight people who only PVE is that those people are wanting, are looking for a far weaker opponent who is easy for them to kill. The underlining reasons for this might be different, who knows why someone would want to kill a weaker opponent who isn't a challenge at all. I don't think I will express what possible motives people might have, as I can think of none that might be complimentary and would amount to be really deeply insulting, but whatever the underlining reasons might be, the fact is those who PvP wanting to engage in fights with PVE players, who do not want to fight them, are looking for weaker opponents, which really amounts to them wanting to make them victims.

What other explanation could their possibly be?

I have been playing MMOs, almost exclusively PvP for over two decades, that's over 20 years so I have a lot of experience. Much of that experience I have been involved in beta releases. I have literally helped with feedback in the creation of PvP MMOs for over 20 years. Because I work for myself, and work from home, and have a lot of wait time I spend a lot of time playing MMOs. You sir, are absolutely wrong about my experience.

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

That I think is one of the key differences in mentality between PvP and PvE.
PvE = get things done, be productive
PvP = stop others from getting things done

This.
Yesterday I was at Chorrol with my DC char to get fast daily for tickets. An elven girl player from AD was there, standing next to questgiver. Normally I would hide and wait, but I wanted to make an "experiment":) I walked next to her, took quest. Nothing happened, we just ignored each other. And you know? That was great. I guess she was PvE player, because she didn't backstabbed me while I was taking quest... And if she was PvPer who don't care about easy prey - even better. My dear PvPers! Don't kill people, who don't want to duel with you, and you'll have much better reputation. If you'll have better reputation, you can eventually encourage more people to become PvPers, and therefore have more fun in a way you like. Unless you just want easy kills during events - but then, admit it and don't make speeches about improving our human existence through PvP.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Nah, you made no point. You may think everyone who plays a game for fun should "want to improve". That's as silly as anyone saying that if you want to play a game you have to do a bajillion jumps through hoops to get to level 2.

Games are to have fun. Each person who plays a game approaches that game in a manner which appeals to that person. Some people are type A sorts, who have to attack a game as if it's going to be the end of them if they don't attain godhood or whatever. Other people are just looking for a good time, whether that's ERP in Riften (or privately) and I don't personally care which it is, nor do I have any interest in it myself - or whether it's puttering about harvesting, crafting or fishing.

I improve my mind by various strategies. But playing this game is just for fun. It's a relief from outside distractions, and personal situations.

YMMV of course.

Anyone that says they are "just doing it for fun" is lying.

I'm just doing it for fun, so don't presume to speak for me. Especially given you seem to be very bad at expressing my opinions. Leave that to the qualified professional on why I do things... me.

Then why do any of you have forum account? Seems like if you were just here to have fun then you'd be having fun and not on the forums.

Come on, you are just nit picking to seem clever. Boring... Most people don't like to go to work, but they do because it means they get to do other things.

People who just want to enjoy the game invest their time on the forums because ::: dramatic drum roll please ::: the want to ensure they continue to have fun.

Try to be constructive instead of trying to be clever, you will present the better part of yourself to the rest of us and you might actually learn something yourself. Baiting people in this way is so 1990s Early Usenet groups, flame war-like. That has been done and over with decades ago, people bought the t-shirts and worn them out long ago, I suspect long before you were even born.