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Video game contracts are ridiculous

waterfairy
waterfairy
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Why must I "agree to the legal terms to play the game"? It's absurd that you expect this from players, especially those who have bought the game long before the policy was changed and continue to dump money into a dying game. Stop assumimg that people will stay loyal and swallow every every pill you shove dowm our throats when we've already been through enough BS across all your games...yet now you draw a line in the sand when many are already fed up with your company. I love all of the games under the Zenimax umbrella but bad business practices have tainted that love..hopefully someone takes some sense to the next board room meeting before you lose more fans and future profits.
  • Danikat
    Danikat
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    You do know you had to agree to the privacy policy when you first started playing right?

    No? Then just accept the new version and forget about it, like you did before. Problem solved.
    PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

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  • Thevampirenight
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    Just don't bother with it and just click accept that is all you have to do. Every game has this requirement every online game at least. So just don't worry about it. Its there because of legal reasons and likely because they legally have to do it. Plus it protects them and it protects us. So its best to just click accept and say whatever. It might be annoying but just got to learn with live with it.
    Edited by Thevampirenight on January 27, 2020 11:40PM
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • Wolfkeks
    Wolfkeks
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    They legally have to do it. In this case there was a problem with some California laws (CCPA) and they just have to let you know that stuff changed and you just click that you know that know.
    So everytime we get new laws they just have to let you know 'well we changed something here and there because there were laws that required us to do this.'
    While it might be annoying for some it is just for them to protect themselves and us from legal consequences.
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  • nafensoriel
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    Vigarr wrote: »
    Why must I "agree to the legal terms to play the game"? It's absurd that you expect this from players, especially those who have bought the game long before the policy was changed and continue to dump money into a dying game. Stop assumimg that people will stay loyal and swallow every every pill you shove dowm our throats when we've already been through enough BS across all your games...yet now you draw a line in the sand when many are already fed up with your company. I love all of the games under the Zenimax umbrella but bad business practices have tainted that love..hopefully someone takes some sense to the next board room meeting before you lose more fans and future profits.

    Why do people sue other people for frivolous things?
    Why do governments regulate things?

    Generally, the answers to these things will answer your questions as to why you have to sign a legal agreement to do anything anymore.
  • peacenote
    peacenote
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    This is something that isn't specific to video games:

    https://tosdr.org/#
    My #1 wish for ESO Today: Decouple achievements from character progress and tracking.
    • Advocate for this HERE.
    • Want the history of this issue? It's HERE.
  • Kiralyn2000
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    peacenote wrote: »
    This is something that isn't specific to video games:

    Yep. Software licenses/terms-of-use are kind of standard for all kinds of software.

    (the most 'fun' ones are the ones that say "and if you opened the package this disc came in, you've agreed to the license!")


    MMOs just make it more obvious that they exist, since they periodically ask you to agree again. (WoW did that after some patches, as I recall; Secret World did it after every patch.)
    Edited by Kiralyn2000 on January 28, 2020 2:16AM
  • ZOS_GregoryV
    Greeting all,

    After removing a few posts due to discussing politics, we would like to remind everyone to keep on the subject at hand, as well as keeping civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the rules we have in place. The discussion of politics falls under the Inappropriate Content and Language section, as stated:
    Inappropriate Content and Language: Certain topics and subjects are deemed inappropriate and not permitted on the official ESO forums. Things that we consider inappropriate are usually illegal, extremely volatile or violent, obscene, vulgar, or simply inappropriate for an official game forum such as ours. Inappropriate content on the ESO forums includes, but is not limited to the following:
    Extreme violence
    Illegal substances and activities
    Pirated copyright-protected material
    Pornography and other sexually explicit topics
    Real-world religion and politics
    Tasteless, vulgar, or obscene material

    One specific term we’d like to call out, as well, is the term “gay.” It is never appropriate to use “gay” as a derogatory term.
    If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

    Thank you for your understanding,
    -Greg-
    Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on January 28, 2020 4:29AM
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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    Staff Post
  • Banana
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    Just scroll down, accept it and don't be an ass in game. Easy
  • barney2525
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    Every company needs its rules and regulations in writing and signed by the players. This is the basis for the company to be able to punish offenders.

    Common sense.

    With all the games of this type we have played for years and years, all of which have these same agreements, you are bringing this up now ? Like it is something new that was a surprise ?

    Really ?

    :#
  • MaleAmazon
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    Basically it is there because *if*. IF there is something happening in the game, like mass abuse or gold selling for real money (which took place at game launch, those of us who were there might remember the gold for dollars spam in chat that fortunately died out), ZOS might want to take action. And then they *need* to be legally covered.

    I often detest the *** companies pull what with directed advertising pestering etc, but well, they have a reason for the legal stuff.
  • Tigerseye
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    None of it means anything unless it complies with the laws in your country/state/region.

    So, unless you live in a place with poor consumer law (or intend to do something wrong!), sign away and don't worry about it too much.
    Edited by Tigerseye on January 28, 2020 9:53AM
  • Ohtimbar
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    It's legal frippery with little enforceable substance. In the extremely unlikely event I were to fall seriously afoul of some odious EULA or ToS I would unleash the hounds, so to speak. It's comforting to be well represented.
    Edited by Ohtimbar on January 28, 2020 10:13AM
    forever stuck in combat
  • rager82b14_ESO
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    It is not even legal binding.

    A TOS does not even hold up in court as a binding contract.
  • Inaya
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    barney2525 wrote: »
    Every company needs its rules and regulations in writing and signed by the players. This is the basis for the company to be able to punish offenders.

    Common sense.

    With all the games of this type we have played for years and years, all of which have these same agreements, you are bringing this up now ? Like it is something new that was a surprise ?

    Really ?

    :#

    Totally agree! It sounds like this is the first time OP has ever played a video game.
  • MurderMostFoul
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    I find all the non-attorneys in this thread provide their legal opinions to be quite assuming.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • Brandathorbel
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    What you agree to for the most part isn't 100% legally binding, they just hope you think it is. Its a safety net for them to keep as many frivolously lawsuits heading their way.
  • Brandathorbel
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    I find all the non-attorneys in this thread provide their legal opinions to be quite assuming.

    you don't have to be an attorney to know the things people are saying in the thread. There is precedent.
  • January1171
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    Vigarr wrote: »
    Why must I "agree to the legal terms to play the game"? It's absurd that you expect this from players, especially those who have bought the game long before the policy was changed and continue to dump money into a dying game. Stop assumimg that people will stay loyal and swallow every every pill you shove dowm our throats when we've already been through enough BS across all your games...yet now you draw a line in the sand when many are already fed up with your company. I love all of the games under the Zenimax umbrella but bad business practices have tainted that love..hopefully someone takes some sense to the next board room meeting before you lose more fans and future profits.

    You write as if this is exclusive to Zenimax. This kindof thing is universal across the board for basically every company and business ever. Blame business culture for this, not Zenimax.
  • Veinblood1965
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    And if there were no agreement you can bet that someone who got addicted to the game and spent 12 hours a day 24/7 would be suing for loss of quality of life. Think cigarettes.
  • Kiralyn2000
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    Banana wrote: »
    ...and don't be an ass in game. Easy

    Apparently not for some people. /sigh
  • 1mirg
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    Its just a browse wrap agreement, aka even if you agree to it-it ultimately means nothing and you can still take the company to court if you feel like you should do so.
    Edited by 1mirg on January 28, 2020 2:49PM
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  • Lucious90
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    You are really that dense or you're new to MMOs and Online games in 2020.


    ToS protects everyone, they are collecting personal information like name phone number address etc, they are collecting and auto debiting credit card information, collecting metric information like age and gender some companies collect race as well. Also typically insures you're not pirating their software or anything like that as well. Terms of Service, we provide and do X and you Provide and do Y.

    Laws also change so when laws change either federally or locally they have to change the ToS to fall into Compliance with the laws.

    If you dont feel comfortable dont accept the game and install Skyrim
    Xbox/NA
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  • Solaire
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    i have nothing to lose,
    might as well sell my soul to ZOS
  • Aigym_Hlervu
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    Vigarr wrote: »
    Why must I "agree to the legal terms to play the game"? It's absurd that you expect this from players, especially those who have bought the game long before the policy was changed and continue to dump money into a dying game. Stop assumimg that people will stay loyal and swallow every every pill you shove dowm our throats when we've already been through enough BS across all your games...yet now you draw a line in the sand when many are already fed up with your company. I love all of the games under the Zenimax umbrella but bad business practices have tainted that love..hopefully someone takes some sense to the next board room meeting before you lose more fans and future profits.

    Our life is a chain of deals. Everything we do in life is regulated by deals. Actually we make contracts before or when we buy food, drinks, homes, cars, pay for our education, find jobs, pay for entertainment, make friends, love, form family relations, communicate with the state, prepare funeral, call for taxi, watch TV, etc. - everything. Simply sitting on toilet is already a result of several contracts: first you had to make a deal with your housing and public utility service to maintain drainage, then you had to make a toilet purchase and installation agreement, to buy a newspaper to read it there, to buy water and soap to wash your hands. Don't forget to make a toilet paper purchase contract. There are lots of contract types - verbal and written, commutative and beneficence, bipartite and multilateral, service and labor ones, license, purchase, loan, lease, rental, etc., etc., etc., regulated differently depending on the country you live in and it's international agreements. Some contracts are qualified as adhesion contracts - they provide little or no opportunity to negotiate the terms. You either accept or decline it entirely. Some contracts even outlive their parties - the parties of the Egyptian-Hettite Eternal treaty signed in 1259 BC are long dead, but the agreement they entered still exists :).

    You make contracts beyond the game and within the game - buying and selling goods to in-game merchants, joining guilds, summoning your Daedric servants (well, some of them. This book shows an example of a bad contract with a Dremora), participating in raids, etc. There is even a certain Daedric Prince of contracts - Clavicus Vile :)! Our relations with Pacrooti is a simple gambling contract. Ah, what I personally dislike is the way quests are taken - it's almost the same way: you come to an NPC who needs your service, he tells you his terms and all a player is able to do is either to accept or to decline it. Stop! I want to know the terms of payment before we make a deal! It's a service contract, not a gambling one!.. I want to know the price he offers, the exact amount of experience, money or items I will receive for going out to the Killing Fields and applying my skills and knowledge there. But the dialogue lines do not allow us to discuss it. This is why I like PvP modes more - it's all clear there before you start. Much better than dwelling in dungeons earning keys you spend on those Undaunted boxes with an uncertain chance of getting the pauldron you want. It is important to discuss the terms before the parties make a deal. Simple misunderstanding leads to arguments, quarrels, wars, chaos. Moreover keep in mind some contracts can be qualified as bogus or sham agreements. Well, it's a very huge topic, I only tried to show a very small part of it using simple non-legal terms. People spend years to study it in universities :).. Ignorantia juris non excusat - ignorance of the law is no excuse. But every law is directed to the ignorance of it. Sometimes it is the reason contracts are that huge.
    Edited by Aigym_Hlervu on January 29, 2020 10:48PM
  • ArchMikem
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    Agreeing to the Terms of Service just means Zenimax Online reserves the right to take your game away from you if you decide to be a bad boy or girl with it.
    CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
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  • Akisohida
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    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Agreeing to the Terms of Service just means Zenimax Online reserves the right to take your game away from you if you decide to be a bad boy or girl with it.

    100% This.

    You would not believe how many brain-damaged morons in Overwatch claimed they were going to sue because Blizzard had no right to remove their access to the game. They thought it was stealing, since they paid for the game, and Blizzard took it away.

    I'm not kidding, some of these script-kiddies thought they could 100% do whatever they wanted, since they bought the game.

    Part of the EULA/ToS says 'We reserve the right to remove your access for any reason'.
    Those reasons include, but are not limited to:
    Exploits
    Use of 3rd party programs to cheat
    Your behavior (being racist/sexist, or otherwise toxic over a line)
    The servers just being taken down in <x> years due to cost vs profit.

    That's right! Without the wording of the EULA/ToS, there'd be a slim (but not 0) chance someone could buy the game in 15-20 years and sue because the servers are gone.


    So you may hate it, OP, but it protects the company. And I believe there are stipulations in there that protect you, the user, but I don't know what they are off the top of my head.
  • Blacknight841
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    Just accept it and move on with your day. If they were not more actively enforce it, you wouldn't have the rampant gold sellers, gold buyers, and bots running all over the game. It is the disappointing truth of the situation. The terms of service is a two way street: the user agrees not to do anything that violates it, the developers agree to enforce it and respect those that do follow the TOS. Unfortunately this is not the case.
    Edited by Blacknight841 on January 30, 2020 6:42AM
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