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Suggestion for the vampire rework - an alternative to the feeding reversal

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Ratzkifal
Ratzkifal
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Quick intro to the issue of this thread
Rich Lambert just confirmed what some of us feared after the reveal in Las Vegas. Currently they are planning to reverse the way feeding works, so that feeding increases your vampire stage instead of lowering it and raising your power in the process. This is in conflict with the way vampirism has been handled in previous games (Skyrim and Oblivion) and is described through lore. Previously it has always been Vampires gaining strength from their affliction but becoming increasingly monsterous in turn, to the point were guards would attack you in Skyrim and Oblivion (but not yet in ESO) if you haven't fed in a while to regain some of your humanity.

Here is a solution to keep the good things about the new but also stay consistent with the other entries of the franchise
Instead of flipping the hunger mechanic on its head and getting into conflict with Oblivion and Skyrim's vampire system, let towns be considered Trespassing Areas for Stage 4 vampires.
Transformed Werewolfs will be and Bonetyrants already are being attacked by guards on sight, and this should be expanded onto stage 4 vampires.
That way feeding will still be something people would want to do routinely so that they could actually follow their business in towns, just like it's been in Skyrim and Oblivion.
Since using vampire active skills currently raises the vampire stage, it would continue to do as it currently does on live, so that would be taken care off too and nobody needs to miss out on their max boni for their next trial or dungeon.
It also makes sense as the new vampire skills will count as a crime, the same way Necromancer abilities do, so it makes sense that your monsterous abilities would also turn you more into the monster of the night that you are.

Source for the confirmation
Excuse the badly clipped clip. He answered my question about what new insentives there are to feed in the new system.
https://clips.twitch.tv/CreativeTastyOysterPraiseIt

Tagging @ShadowHvo
Edited by Ratzkifal on January 21, 2020 8:06PM
This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • Hellvlad
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    Just.. no!

    Stage 4 is basically the only reason to have vampirism, for the QoL with stealth , helping with pick-pocketing, and skip trash packs. Considering you need hours to get back in stage 4 it makes no sense and it's unplayable

    You do realize that all the previous example you provided WW, bone tyrant form are triggered powers, not a permanent passive state?
    Edited by Hellvlad on January 21, 2020 8:13PM
  • Unseelie
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    The old way of feeding made no sense.
    When a Vampire does not feed they get weaker not stronger and I do not care what "Lore" says. When something is starving they are not strong.
    In Vampire lore when they do not feed they get more feral and have less control (so would look more undead) but definitely ot stronger.
    As they feed they look more human and grow stronger as they use the blood and when it is expended they get weak again.
    The way it used to be is why everyone and their cousin took Vampirism and once they had the passive never touched it again.
    I hope they make it so that is not possible anymore or at least not worth it.
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
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    Hellvlad wrote: »
    Just.. no!

    Stage 4 is basically the only reason to have vampirism, for the QoL with stealth , helping with pick-pocketing, and skip trash packs. Considering you need hours to get back in stage 4 it makes no sense and it's unplayable

    You do realize that all the previous example you provided WW, bone tyrant form are triggered powers, not a permanent passive state?

    @Hellvlad Yes, Stage 4 is basically the only reason to have vampirism, but you don't need hours to get back into stage 4. Every time you use a vampire ability, your remaining time to the next stage gets reduced by 30minutes. With a reversal, you will continue to lose vampiric power unless you keep feeding, so it will become an inconvenience either way.
    The question is just, whether to keep it consistent with older TES games or turn it all on its head?
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • idk
    idk
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    I watched the very short video and all it says is Zos is flipping the feeding system. It offers nothing else about the changes or any idea of how this change will actually effect us in game including what will be available to us like foods to take place of feeding.

    Granted, I am ignorant of any information outside of the stages being reversed. I readily admit that and I do not see anything here that educates me on how all these changes to the vampire line will effects us.

    Do we know how the use of vampire skills affects our stage in the new design?
    Do we know how long each stage lasts in the new design?
    Do we know what change to passives will occur in the new design?
    Do we know what stages each passive will become active in the new design?
    Do we know how foods/drinks will work with vampirism in the new design?

    Those and probably other questions would need to be answered for us to have an informed discussion and something Zos would have reason to review.
  • Noxavian
    Noxavian
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    Quick intro to the issue of this thread
    Rich Lambert just confirmed what some of us feared after the reveal in Las Vegas. Currently they are planning to reverse the way feeding works, so that feeding increases your vampire stage instead of lowering it and raising your power in the process. This is in conflict with the way vampirism has been handled in previous games (Skyrim and Oblivion) and is described through lore. Previously it has always been Vampires gaining strength from their affliction but becoming increasingly monsterous in turn, to the point were guards would attack you in Skyrim and Oblivion (but not yet in ESO) if you haven't fed in a while to regain some of your humanity.

    Here is a solution to keep the good things about the new but also stay consistent with the other entries of the franchise
    Instead of flipping the hunger mechanic on its head and getting into conflict with Oblivion and Skyrim's vampire system, let towns be considered Trespassing Areas for Stage 4 vampires.
    Transformed Werewolfs will be and Bonetyrants already are being attacked by guards on sight, and this should be expanded onto stage 4 vampires.
    That way feeding will still be something people would want to do routinely so that they could actually follow their business in towns, just like it's been in Skyrim and Oblivion.
    Since using vampire active skills currently raises the vampire stage, it would continue to do as it currently does on live, so that would be taken care off too and nobody needs to miss out on their max boni for their next trial or dungeon.
    It also makes sense as the new vampire skills will count as a crime, the same way Necromancer abilities do, so it makes sense that your monsterous abilities would also turn you more into the monster of the night that you are.

    Source for the confirmation
    Excuse the badly clipped clip. He answered my question about what new insentives there are to feed in the new system.
    https://clips.twitch.tv/CreativeTastyOysterPraiseIt

    Tagging @ShadowHvo

    It's not an issue, again literally you and the one guy you tagged don't like the upcoming change. Maybe a handful of others. Bottom line is it's not going to be changed back for such an insignificant minority. I for one welcome the new changes, also maybe wait till we see the changes before suggesting stuff like this.
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
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    Unseelie wrote: »
    The old way of feeding made no sense.
    When a Vampire does not feed they get weaker not stronger and I do not care what "Lore" says. When something is starving they are not strong.
    In Vampire lore when they do not feed they get more feral and have less control (so would look more undead) but definitely ot stronger.
    As they feed they look more human and grow stronger as they use the blood and when it is expended they get weak again.
    The way it used to be is why everyone and their cousin took Vampirism and once they had the passive never touched it again.
    I hope they make it so that is not possible anymore or at least not worth it.

    @Unseelie What doesn't change is vampires will still look less human/ugly the more powerful they are. The question is whether feeding causes or remedies this. The new system will have you continously feed to keep your stage 4 up.

    Personally I prefer the way it used to be, with vampires gaining strength from their affliction the more hungry they are and turning more monsterous in the process, but able to regain their humanity by feeding.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • Salvas_Aren
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    I dont know how vampire will be, but please:

    Make the two bloody maras equal.
  • DigitalTemerity
    DigitalTemerity
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    In line with that I don't know what ZOS plans for all of those questions either or even what their take is on my suggestion I made earlier today that as they feed on blood they should look more human not more feral if the idea is to make them most powerful at stage four then at stage four my feeling is they should look healthier not more sickly. I only say that because they are flipping it on its head. Some people like the idea and some don't. It's ZOS's call, but I noticed someone post a skin that made you look feral all the time. That's a viable solution. If you like that look and want to look like you're dying all the time then wear the skin. That leaves it optional for everybody.
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
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    idk wrote: »
    I watched the very short video and all it says is Zos is flipping the feeding system. It offers nothing else about the changes or any idea of how this change will actually effect us in game including what will be available to us like foods to take place of feeding.

    Granted, I am ignorant of any information outside of the stages being reversed. I readily admit that and I do not see anything here that educates me on how all these changes to the vampire line will effects us.

    Do we know how the use of vampire skills affects our stage in the new design?
    Do we know how long each stage lasts in the new design?
    Do we know what change to passives will occur in the new design?
    Do we know what stages each passive will become active in the new design?
    Do we know how foods/drinks will work with vampirism in the new design?

    Those and probably other questions would need to be answered for us to have an informed discussion and something Zos would have reason to review.

    @idk Rich was in the Bethesda Germany stream today and answered community questions. Granted I couldn't clip it all, but I can answer some of your questions.
    1. No, but we can assume that they are either going to work exactly like on live except they now lower your stage OR MORE LIKELY, they do not interact with your vampire stage at all, so that you don't drop in the middle of combat.
    2. No, but we can assume this wasn't touched either.
    3. Undeath stays the way it currently does, it's unclear if any of the other passives change.
    4. Since undeath is "untouched", we do know it still requires a certain stage.
    5. We can assume both bloody maras stay the way they are, except that the Disasterous Bloody Mara is the one that replaces feeding on NPCs now.

    Furthermore, we know that Mistform and Drain remain the way they are and the "rework" means they will add 3 new skills rather than redoing 5 + the ultimate.

    For the purpose of this thread about consistency with the older games, we know all we need for now and giving feedback before it is too late is advised.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
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    DigitalTemerity wrote: »
    In line with that I don't know what ZOS plans for all of those questions either or even what their take is on my suggestion I made earlier today that as they feed on blood they should look more human not more feral if the idea is to make them most powerful at stage four then at stage four my feeling is they should look healthier not more sickly. I only say that because they are flipping it on its head. Some people like the idea and some don't. It's ZOS's call, but I noticed someone post a skin that made you look feral all the time. That's a viable solution. If you like that look and want to look like you're dying all the time then wear the skin. That leaves it optional for everybody.

    @DigitalTemerity It's been confirmed that "their power shows". At stage 4, when the vampire is the most powerful, they will be the most ugly. They did not plan on changing that and they also didn't change the vampire appearance either.
    So this means, in the new system, the more you feed, the more ugly you get.

    Rich confirmed this today in the Bethesda Germany stream.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • Noxavian
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    I watched the very short video and all it says is Zos is flipping the feeding system. It offers nothing else about the changes or any idea of how this change will actually effect us in game including what will be available to us like foods to take place of feeding.

    Granted, I am ignorant of any information outside of the stages being reversed. I readily admit that and I do not see anything here that educates me on how all these changes to the vampire line will effects us.

    Do we know how the use of vampire skills affects our stage in the new design?
    Do we know how long each stage lasts in the new design?
    Do we know what change to passives will occur in the new design?
    Do we know what stages each passive will become active in the new design?
    Do we know how foods/drinks will work with vampirism in the new design?

    Those and probably other questions would need to be answered for us to have an informed discussion and something Zos would have reason to review.

    @idk Rich was in the Bethesda Germany stream today and answered community questions. Granted I couldn't clip it all, but I can answer some of your questions.
    1. No, but we can assume that they are either going to work exactly like on live except they now lower your stage OR MORE LIKELY, they do not interact with your vampire stage at all, so that you don't drop in the middle of combat.
    2. No, but we can assume this wasn't touched either.
    3. Undeath stays the way it currently does, it's unclear if any of the other passives change.
    4. Since undeath is "untouched", we do know it still requires a certain stage.
    5. We can assume both bloody maras stay the way they are, except that the Disasterous Bloody Mara is the one that replaces feeding on NPCs now.

    Furthermore, we know that Mistform and Drain remain the way they are and the "rework" means they will add 3 new skills rather than redoing 5 + the ultimate.

    For the purpose of this thread about consistency with the older games, we know all we need for now and giving feedback before it is too late is advised.

    Very saddened to hear mist form and the drain are staying exactly the same. Are you sure they are? I find it very silly that they won't at the very least touch up on poison mist and the speed drain, the most useless morphs I've ever seen. I find it hard to believe, honestly.
  • idk
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    It sound like there is a dearth of information about the big picture.. Lots of assumptions being made.

    As for consistency with the single player TES games, this is an MMORPG and as such much of what we had in the single player games just does not work. Think about that for a moment. First bounty I got in Skyrim I had the guards pouring in through the doors. I did not have to go out of the building, they came for me. One of many things that works differently in ESO than the older games.

    Sure, we can discuss this all we want but there is little reason for Zos to pay attention until we can begin having an informed discussion. Maybe they should have waited to tell us they were making any changes to this skill line because of all the speculation.
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
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    Noxavian wrote: »
    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    Quick intro to the issue of this thread
    Rich Lambert just confirmed what some of us feared after the reveal in Las Vegas. Currently they are planning to reverse the way feeding works, so that feeding increases your vampire stage instead of lowering it and raising your power in the process. This is in conflict with the way vampirism has been handled in previous games (Skyrim and Oblivion) and is described through lore. Previously it has always been Vampires gaining strength from their affliction but becoming increasingly monsterous in turn, to the point were guards would attack you in Skyrim and Oblivion (but not yet in ESO) if you haven't fed in a while to regain some of your humanity.

    Here is a solution to keep the good things about the new but also stay consistent with the other entries of the franchise
    Instead of flipping the hunger mechanic on its head and getting into conflict with Oblivion and Skyrim's vampire system, let towns be considered Trespassing Areas for Stage 4 vampires.
    Transformed Werewolfs will be and Bonetyrants already are being attacked by guards on sight, and this should be expanded onto stage 4 vampires.
    That way feeding will still be something people would want to do routinely so that they could actually follow their business in towns, just like it's been in Skyrim and Oblivion.
    Since using vampire active skills currently raises the vampire stage, it would continue to do as it currently does on live, so that would be taken care off too and nobody needs to miss out on their max boni for their next trial or dungeon.
    It also makes sense as the new vampire skills will count as a crime, the same way Necromancer abilities do, so it makes sense that your monsterous abilities would also turn you more into the monster of the night that you are.

    Source for the confirmation
    Excuse the badly clipped clip. He answered my question about what new insentives there are to feed in the new system.
    https://clips.twitch.tv/CreativeTastyOysterPraiseIt

    Tagging @ShadowHvo

    It's not an issue, again literally you and the one guy you tagged don't like the upcoming change. Maybe a handful of others. Bottom line is it's not going to be changed back for such an insignificant minority. I for one welcome the new changes, also maybe wait till we see the changes before suggesting stuff like this.

    @Noxavian Currently nothing has been changed yet and I've seen enough of the changes to form this opinion. Leamon's answers were vague, but Rich was much more clear today.
    I would like to know what your problem with my suggestion is, because I think this way everyone is happy. Feeding makes you more human, commiting vampiric acts is a crime, using vampire abilities in combat automatically gets you in a state where your vampire skills are at their most powerful AND WE STAY CONSISTENT WITH THE OLDER GAMES.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
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    idk wrote: »
    It sound like there is a dearth of information about the big picture.. Lots of assumptions being made.

    As for consistency with the single player TES games, this is an MMORPG and as such much of what we had in the single player games just does not work. Think about that for a moment. First bounty I got in Skyrim I had the guards pouring in through the doors. I did not have to go out of the building, they came for me. One of many things that works differently in ESO than the older games.

    Sure, we can discuss this all we want but there is little reason for Zos to pay attention until we can begin having an informed discussion. Maybe they should have waited to tell us they were making any changes to this skill line because of all the speculation.

    @idk We have all the info on the table now. There is no speculation anymore. He clearly said it would be a reversal and feeding would get you to stage 4 and make you ugly. Anything else is not subject of this thread, like what the three new skills will be or if they will change drain and mistform in any way.

    Since you can't exactly feed in PvP, the only speculation is that vampire combat skills will stop raising/lowering your current vampire stage so you don't drop in the midst of battle.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • DigitalTemerity
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    That kinda sucks (pun intended). Why do things have to be down in stone without the communities input? I'm not the only one who liked the idea. Making looking like a zombie optional would satisfy more people. I have had other guildmates who say they don't want to be a vampire because they don't like the look. The vampire that showed in the trailer had pale skin, but other than that he didn't look feral if I remember correctly. What will be will be I guess...
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
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    Noxavian wrote: »
    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    I watched the very short video and all it says is Zos is flipping the feeding system. It offers nothing else about the changes or any idea of how this change will actually effect us in game including what will be available to us like foods to take place of feeding.

    Granted, I am ignorant of any information outside of the stages being reversed. I readily admit that and I do not see anything here that educates me on how all these changes to the vampire line will effects us.

    Do we know how the use of vampire skills affects our stage in the new design?
    Do we know how long each stage lasts in the new design?
    Do we know what change to passives will occur in the new design?
    Do we know what stages each passive will become active in the new design?
    Do we know how foods/drinks will work with vampirism in the new design?

    Those and probably other questions would need to be answered for us to have an informed discussion and something Zos would have reason to review.

    @idk Rich was in the Bethesda Germany stream today and answered community questions. Granted I couldn't clip it all, but I can answer some of your questions.
    1. No, but we can assume that they are either going to work exactly like on live except they now lower your stage OR MORE LIKELY, they do not interact with your vampire stage at all, so that you don't drop in the middle of combat.
    2. No, but we can assume this wasn't touched either.
    3. Undeath stays the way it currently does, it's unclear if any of the other passives change.
    4. Since undeath is "untouched", we do know it still requires a certain stage.
    5. We can assume both bloody maras stay the way they are, except that the Disasterous Bloody Mara is the one that replaces feeding on NPCs now.

    Furthermore, we know that Mistform and Drain remain the way they are and the "rework" means they will add 3 new skills rather than redoing 5 + the ultimate.

    For the purpose of this thread about consistency with the older games, we know all we need for now and giving feedback before it is too late is advised.

    Very saddened to hear mist form and the drain are staying exactly the same. Are you sure they are? I find it very silly that they won't at the very least touch up on poison mist and the speed drain, the most useless morphs I've ever seen. I find it hard to believe, honestly.

    @Noxavian Well, there might be some balance changes and maybe changes to the morphs but the core is going to stay the same, since he said they are "adding 3 new skills" rather than "redoing all 5 skills". This might mean they won't touch them at all or it means they won't touch the general function but some of the details about them.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • Unseelie
    Unseelie
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    Unseelie wrote: »
    The old way of feeding made no sense.
    When a Vampire does not feed they get weaker not stronger and I do not care what "Lore" says. When something is starving they are not strong.
    In Vampire lore when they do not feed they get more feral and have less control (so would look more undead) but definitely ot stronger.
    As they feed they look more human and grow stronger as they use the blood and when it is expended they get weak again.
    The way it used to be is why everyone and their cousin took Vampirism and once they had the passive never touched it again.
    I hope they make it so that is not possible anymore or at least not worth it.

    @Unseelie What doesn't change is vampires will still look less human/ugly the more powerful they are. The question is whether feeding causes or remedies this. The new system will have you continously feed to keep your stage 4 up.

    Personally I prefer the way it used to be, with vampires gaining strength from their affliction the more hungry they are and turning more monsterous in the process, but able to regain their humanity by feeding.

    In my opinion and lore from all over the world (maybe not eso) Vampires must keep feeding to stay strong. It is an addiction and a drive. If they do not feed they get weak and become someone else's prey
  • Noxavian
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    Noxavian wrote: »
    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    I watched the very short video and all it says is Zos is flipping the feeding system. It offers nothing else about the changes or any idea of how this change will actually effect us in game including what will be available to us like foods to take place of feeding.

    Granted, I am ignorant of any information outside of the stages being reversed. I readily admit that and I do not see anything here that educates me on how all these changes to the vampire line will effects us.

    Do we know how the use of vampire skills affects our stage in the new design?
    Do we know how long each stage lasts in the new design?
    Do we know what change to passives will occur in the new design?
    Do we know what stages each passive will become active in the new design?
    Do we know how foods/drinks will work with vampirism in the new design?

    Those and probably other questions would need to be answered for us to have an informed discussion and something Zos would have reason to review.

    @idk Rich was in the Bethesda Germany stream today and answered community questions. Granted I couldn't clip it all, but I can answer some of your questions.
    1. No, but we can assume that they are either going to work exactly like on live except they now lower your stage OR MORE LIKELY, they do not interact with your vampire stage at all, so that you don't drop in the middle of combat.
    2. No, but we can assume this wasn't touched either.
    3. Undeath stays the way it currently does, it's unclear if any of the other passives change.
    4. Since undeath is "untouched", we do know it still requires a certain stage.
    5. We can assume both bloody maras stay the way they are, except that the Disasterous Bloody Mara is the one that replaces feeding on NPCs now.

    Furthermore, we know that Mistform and Drain remain the way they are and the "rework" means they will add 3 new skills rather than redoing 5 + the ultimate.

    For the purpose of this thread about consistency with the older games, we know all we need for now and giving feedback before it is too late is advised.

    Very saddened to hear mist form and the drain are staying exactly the same. Are you sure they are? I find it very silly that they won't at the very least touch up on poison mist and the speed drain, the most useless morphs I've ever seen. I find it hard to believe, honestly.

    @Noxavian Well, there might be some balance changes and maybe changes to the morphs but the core is going to stay the same, since he said they are "adding 3 new skills" rather than "redoing all 5 skills". This might mean they won't touch them at all or it means they won't touch the general function but some of the details about them.

    That's kinda relieving to hear. I really hope they meant the core bit of the abilities will stay the same, but how they function/their morphs will be different. Kinda how in the trailer we see the vamps using a mist-dash. It'd have the core of the mist form we currently got, while functioning differently.
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
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    DigitalTemerity wrote: »
    That kinda sucks (pun intended). Why do things have to be down in stone without the communities input? I'm not the only one who liked the idea. Making looking like a zombie optional would satisfy more people. I have had other guildmates who say they don't want to be a vampire because they don't like the look. The vampire that showed in the trailer had pale skin, but other than that he didn't look feral if I remember correctly. What will be will be I guess...

    That's why I am putting this thread out here right now. We all know that once PTS for Q2 hits, the changes will already be set in stone, but now we are still 3 months ahead and there is still time to fix things.
    I also think feeding should make you look more human and be the main motivator for doing this, but as we can currently see on live, nobody is really doing this as there are no repercussions.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • idk
    idk
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    It sound like there is a dearth of information about the big picture.. Lots of assumptions being made.

    As for consistency with the single player TES games, this is an MMORPG and as such much of what we had in the single player games just does not work. Think about that for a moment. First bounty I got in Skyrim I had the guards pouring in through the doors. I did not have to go out of the building, they came for me. One of many things that works differently in ESO than the older games.

    Sure, we can discuss this all we want but there is little reason for Zos to pay attention until we can begin having an informed discussion. Maybe they should have waited to tell us they were making any changes to this skill line because of all the speculation.

    @idk We have all the info on the table now. There is no speculation anymore. He clearly said it would be a reversal and feeding would get you to stage 4 and make you ugly. Anything else is not subject of this thread, like what the three new skills will be or if they will change drain and mistform in any way.

    Since you can't exactly feed in PvP, the only speculation is that vampire combat skills will stop raising/lowering your current vampire stage so you don't drop in the midst of battle.

    Apologies then. I was just going based on what you said in your previous reply that where the replies to the questions were mostly guesses and assumptions. Heck, the words "assume" was used twice and multiple scenarios were used in the reply to the first question.

    I think we have different definitions on what actual information is. No worries. Have your discussion. I do not want to derail it.
  • TX12001rwb17_ESO
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    NO

    We WANT Feeding Reversal, Starving to become stronger is stupid.
  • Noxavian
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    TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »
    NO

    We WANT Feeding Reversal, Starving to become stronger is stupid.

    big agree, my man
  • DigitalTemerity
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    I agree with that too
  • Ratzkifal
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    TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »
    NO

    We WANT Feeding Reversal, Starving to become stronger is stupid.

    It's not the starving that makes the vampire stronger. It's the affliction itself making the vampire stronger.
    All feeding does is make you more human, allowing you to blend in with the sheep at the cost of some of your awesome powers.

    What I dislike about the new system is that there are no downsides to vampirism anymore from a lore perspective. If feeding makes you more monsterous, then you can simply get bit and not drink too much blood and basically live forever while bothering pretty much nobody since you only need just a little blood. And you will also never be in danger of going insane as long as you drink in moderation, which you can control of course because the less blood you consume the more clear your mind gets...
    That's not how it should be.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • DarknDarker
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »
    NO

    We WANT Feeding Reversal, Starving to become stronger is stupid.

    It's not the starving that makes the vampire stronger. It's the affliction itself making the vampire stronger.
    All feeding does is make you more human, allowing you to blend in with the sheep at the cost of some of your awesome powers.

    exactly, TES vampirism is daedric in nature, it doesnt need to follow conventional ideas, and shouldnt as it turns tes vampires into generic vampire #872. nobody that actually cares about the lore is going to support this change, at least not to a blood line thats been established to work the way ot has for a few years now. if it was a new blood line there would be less of a backlash. and before anyone says "but they should be like every other modern media vampire!", would you want the orcs to be turned into pigmen as well? cus thats what you're asking for
  • Ratzkifal
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    DarknDarker wrote: »
    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »
    NO

    We WANT Feeding Reversal, Starving to become stronger is stupid.

    It's not the starving that makes the vampire stronger. It's the affliction itself making the vampire stronger.
    All feeding does is make you more human, allowing you to blend in with the sheep at the cost of some of your awesome powers.

    exactly, TES vampirism is daedric in nature, it doesnt need to follow conventional ideas, and shouldnt as it turns tes vampires into generic vampire #872. nobody that actually cares about the lore is going to support this change, at least not to a blood line thats been established to work the way ot has for a few years now. if it was a new blood line there would be less of a backlash. and before anyone says "but they should be like every other modern media vampire!", would you want the orcs to be turned into pigmen as well? cus thats what you're asking for

    I do get the appeal of feeding to get stronger, but it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense when there is literally no in-lore downside to it. If there is none and you can even drink animal blood, why isn't everyone a vampire? There has to be a downside and I think fleeing from the guards at Stage 4 is a good reminder of why being a vampire blending in with society is not a walk in the park and actually a bit of a challenge.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • TX12001rwb17_ESO
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    It sound like there is a dearth of information about the big picture.. Lots of assumptions being made.

    As for consistency with the single player TES games, this is an MMORPG and as such much of what we had in the single player games just does not work. Think about that for a moment. First bounty I got in Skyrim I had the guards pouring in through the doors. I did not have to go out of the building, they came for me. One of many things that works differently in ESO than the older games.

    Sure, we can discuss this all we want but there is little reason for Zos to pay attention until we can begin having an informed discussion. Maybe they should have waited to tell us they were making any changes to this skill line because of all the speculation.

    @idk We have all the info on the table now. There is no speculation anymore. He clearly said it would be a reversal and feeding would get you to stage 4 and make you ugly. Anything else is not subject of this thread, like what the three new skills will be or if they will change drain and mistform in any way.

    Since you can't exactly feed in PvP, the only speculation is that vampire combat skills will stop raising/lowering your current vampire stage so you don't drop in the midst of battle.

    You can feed in PvP, Nightblades can do it at least.
  • TX12001rwb17_ESO
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »
    NO

    We WANT Feeding Reversal, Starving to become stronger is stupid.

    It's not the starving that makes the vampire stronger. It's the affliction itself making the vampire stronger.
    All feeding does is make you more human, allowing you to blend in with the sheep at the cost of some of your awesome powers.

    What I dislike about the new system is that there are no downsides to vampirism anymore from a lore perspective. If feeding makes you more monsterous, then you can simply get bit and not drink too much blood and basically live forever while bothering pretty much nobody since you only need just a little blood. And you will also never be in danger of going insane as long as you drink in moderation, which you can control of course because the less blood you consume the more clear your mind gets...
    That's not how it should be.

    Treating Vampirism like a common disease that needs blood as medicine is stupid.

    Your supposed to be an undead monster, not someone who is sick.
    Edited by TX12001rwb17_ESO on January 21, 2020 11:24PM
  • Ratzkifal
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    TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »
    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    It sound like there is a dearth of information about the big picture.. Lots of assumptions being made.

    As for consistency with the single player TES games, this is an MMORPG and as such much of what we had in the single player games just does not work. Think about that for a moment. First bounty I got in Skyrim I had the guards pouring in through the doors. I did not have to go out of the building, they came for me. One of many things that works differently in ESO than the older games.

    Sure, we can discuss this all we want but there is little reason for Zos to pay attention until we can begin having an informed discussion. Maybe they should have waited to tell us they were making any changes to this skill line because of all the speculation.

    @idk We have all the info on the table now. There is no speculation anymore. He clearly said it would be a reversal and feeding would get you to stage 4 and make you ugly. Anything else is not subject of this thread, like what the three new skills will be or if they will change drain and mistform in any way.

    Since you can't exactly feed in PvP, the only speculation is that vampire combat skills will stop raising/lowering your current vampire stage so you don't drop in the midst of battle.

    You can feed in PvP, Nightblades can do it at least.

    True, if you can manage to sneak up on someone. If you are Khajiit and wear Darloc, Night Terror and Night Mother then you don't even need to be a Nightblade, but at that point you don't deal any damage anymor either.
    In Cyrodiil you have NPCs for it too, but not exactly near the keep where the battle is on. If you have a vamp skill that you use and they don't change that part of the passive, then you'll get out of stage 4 quite fast.

    I'm pretty sure they will change that though for this very reason. Or maybe you won't be able to use it on players anymore at all since you can't use Blade of Woe on them either and it's coded the same or something.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • Ratzkifal
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    TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »
    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »
    NO

    We WANT Feeding Reversal, Starving to become stronger is stupid.

    It's not the starving that makes the vampire stronger. It's the affliction itself making the vampire stronger.
    All feeding does is make you more human, allowing you to blend in with the sheep at the cost of some of your awesome powers.

    What I dislike about the new system is that there are no downsides to vampirism anymore from a lore perspective. If feeding makes you more monsterous, then you can simply get bit and not drink too much blood and basically live forever while bothering pretty much nobody since you only need just a little blood. And you will also never be in danger of going insane as long as you drink in moderation, which you can control of course because the less blood you consume the more clear your mind gets...
    That's not how it should be.

    Treating Vampirism like a common disease that needs blood as medicine is stupid.

    Your supposed to be an undead monster, not someone who is sick.

    It's not a common disease, but a special one as it makes you virtually immune to all other diseases, including Lycanthropy, while also being able to infect Argonians who are immune to most diseases. That's how it has always been in the Elder Scrolls.
    Just remember the Snickers commercial. You are not you when you're hungry. You are an undead monster.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
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