DLC dungeons

r34lian · January 2020

What the point of them?like wasting resources in making a content that hardly 2 to 3% of player base would play
Out of 3 dlcs 2 are dungeons better would've been if they released 2 story dlc and a dungeon , i don't think designing those 1 shot mechanic filled dungeon takes less effort than story ones
never get it why do they waste resource in making these that hardly people play

Raisin · January 2020

Yeah, I don't get it either. I mean I don't like story zones, so since everybody else obviously shares my feelings on that, why make content for the 2-3% that disagree with me?! It's just so weird. I cannot figure out any potential flaw in my reasoning. Sometimes the world just doesn't make sense I guess.
I guess ZOS analyzes all their numbers, finds the least profitable thing, and makes more of that. That's what they must do. Silly ZOS.

Edit: Really though, I agree. Outside of Hard Modes, DLC dungeons are still painfully easy... They should focus more on giving us multiple trials per year, to take care of the Endgame Community.

Faulgor · January 2020

I'll say we are reaching a saturation point regarding DLC dungeons. It's already hard to find a group for a particular dungeon you want to run, and most people skip the DLC pledges.

I think I'd rather see a small system update or zone overhaul instead of one dungeon DLC. 2 dungeons per year should suffice, especially when they keep delaying the motif release.

FierceSam · January 2020

You have to have content that caters for both the best players and acts as an ‘ambition’ for up and coming players. And acts as a draw to encourage players in when there isn’t immediate new content.

They present a genuine challenge for players who have done every dungeon on vet HM multiple times. And actually getting the speed, no death, HM run(s) are significantly harder and require much more serious teamwork. Sure, they are frustrating and hard, but If you’re going there with friends it’s fun to work out how you’re going to beat them. And beating them the first time is one of the few, genuine ‘Yes!’ moments in the game (much more so than, say, finishing the Elsweyr chapter content).

They are testbeds for future content. Many, many mechanics that first appear in DLC dungeons make their way into the base game, which is all the richer for it.

zvavi · January 2020

That's the only content i enjoy

Faulgor wrote: »

and most people skip the DLC pledges.

I skip the non dlc ones

drkfrontiers · January 2020

All dungeons should have

Normal mode - drops blue gear + 1 key (current non-dlc normals levels of difficulty)
Hard mode - drops purple gear + helm + 2 key (current non-dlc vet levels of difficulty)
Vet Hard - drops purple gear + helm + 2 key + skin (current dlc vet levels of difficulty)
Undaunted - drops perfected gold gear + helm + 2 key + skin + title (current dlc vetHM levels of difficulty)

Mariusghost84 · January 2020

DLC dungeons are fantastic. Really challenging and i enjoy them very much. Regular dungeons are no challenge and often boring. In these new dungeons you actually have to talk to your teammates and coordinate regarding tactics etc. I only pug and my experience is mostly positive! Even the times we wipe, it just makes clearing a dungeon extra special in the end

Iccotak · January 2020

drkfrontiers wrote: »

All dungeons should have

Normal mode - drops blue gear + 1 key (current non-dlc normals levels of difficulty)
Hard mode - drops purple gear + helm + 2 key (current non-dlc vet levels of difficulty)
Vet Hard - drops purple gear + helm + 2 key + skin (current dlc vet levels of difficulty)
Undaunted - drops perfected gold gear + helm + 2 key + skin + title (current dlc vetHM levels of difficulty)

Not a bad idea but it would need some balancing to work - not discouraging your idea, I like the reward system

My suggestion:
below normal is Fledgling which drops = white gear, no sets, a one time green item reward from NPC in the dungeon quest.
For players that just want to take their time with the story

MerguezMan · January 2020

r34lian wrote: »

What the point of them?like wasting resources in making a content that hardly 2 to 3% of player base would play
Out of 3 dlcs 2 are dungeons better would've been if they released 2 story dlc and a dungeon , i don't think designing those 1 shot mechanic filled dungeon takes less effort than story ones
never get it why do they waste resource in making these that hardly people play

1) 2 to 3% ? Check the achievement ratings for normal dungeon completion. I think it's more like at least 20%.

2) To answer your question, I guess it's the best ratio for effort/sales ZoS could find.

3) I don't buy dungeon DLCs on release. I don't have ESO+. I mostly play those dungeons on free trial times (so at least 6 months after 1st day-buyers). I bought some dungeon DLC packs out of curiosity, and was disappointed.
Not by the DLC itself, but the difficulty to group up and actually enjoy the dungeon:
- get queued for 30min-1h without result
- get in a group of low-level players (with fake tank/healer) that clearly can't clear normal mode without carry
- get in a group of high-level players that want to clear the dungeon as fast as possible and won't wait story dialogues
- get in an ongoing instance of the dungeon, miss 75% of what you expected to experience
- get almost insulted because you don't know never-seen-before mechanics of a dungeon you run for the first time
- get directly kicked out of group when you say "hey it's my first time in this dungeon" at the beginning

4) I think we need more zones designed for end-game challenge and group play like Craiglorn.
Maybe it would be the solution ? More small-sized open zones with repeatable quests designed for group-play ?

FierceSam · January 2020

zvavi wrote: »

That's the only content i enjoy

And that (time a few hundred thousand) is as good a reason as any.

Also, while DLC like Thieves Guild might have a 2 or 3 week window of playability and then just be a zone I drop in and out of, dungeon DLCs will engage me over a much longer period. So I’ve probably spent at least as much time in Cradle of Shadows as I did in Dark Brotherhood.

I will also run more characters through the various DLC dungeons than I will through the DLC stories. I think almost all my characters have been through at least 1 dungeon DLC if not more. Only 2 have done the Murkmire storyline and, Blackrose Prison aside, I don’t see anything there pulling me back.

I’d also be interested to see a comparison of sales of dungeon DLC and storyzone DLC as I imagine they are broadly similar, maybe skewing to the storyzone DLC a bit.

I do think there is value to be had by developing the dungeon DLC to include some element of non-dungeon/storyline content, although I don’t think the dungeon itself is the right mechanic for story telling. The upcoming 2 dungeons no extras DLC feels like a very old, predictable format, one that kind of says “winding down” rather than “gearing up”. It feels like Wrathstone with a different colour palette rather than a new exciting, inspiring journey.

Iccotak · January 2020

@r34lian
there are 4 DLCs a year

Q1 - Dungeon
Q2 - Chapter
Q3 - Dungeon
Q4 - Story Zone

I don't think that dungeon player count is as low as you think it is

That said - who knows the future? Maybe when ESO gets a bigger crew they can release

Q1 - Dungeon
Q2 - Chapter
Q3 - Story Zone + Dungeon
Q4 - Story Zone + Dungeon

Aznarb · January 2020

zvavi wrote: »

That's the only content i enjoy

Faulgor wrote: »

and most people skip the DLC pledges.

I skip the non dlc ones

Same here, non dlc and normal are just so boring...
I don't see the problem with DLC either, you're not good enough to do vet ? Well, their is a normal mode for you, no shame to run it the time you get better.

I really like DLC DG, most of them are amazing and since last year mechanic are more creative and diverse, hope they continue this way

r34lian · January 2020

Well there we go..

ayu_fever · January 2020

dungeons are MY end game (outfit station too! FASHION scrolls online!)

i prefer dungeons over anything in the game.
period.

i aint scared of any of them on any difficulty.
might not finish it though haha but i will give it all i got!

the secret is just dont PUG.
i dont know everything, but PUGs are just hopelessly bad at this game.
a CP11 healer spamming bow light attacks who insists on “collecting” ALL of the red circles on the ground and a lv45 tank who actually taunts but for boss fight he goes werewolf....
yeah there aint no way i am suffering through more of those roody poos so i only do dungeons with people i know.

mobicera · January 2020

Umm
There are different target audiences within this game...
If dlc dungeons are not your thing well so be it...
But it's far greater than 1-2% doing them.
For me and many people I play with and used to play with. These dlc dungeons were what was looked forward to...
For me I will buy the dungeons on release (I don't have eso+ and haven't for years) and I assume within a few days I will have ran them both on vet...
The dungeon content has a target audience, just as pvp does, just as overland story content does...
What you like doesn't actually matter...
This game is funded by many not one...
And dungeons keep getting released despite these threads every single time...
What does that tell you?
Zos makes money on them and people un them
So I would like to ask for more dungeons but got to contain dlc content for everyone:)
Its just the way it is in this mmo

AlnilamE · January 2020

I'm sort of a PvX player, since I've done a bit of everything in the game.

I've done every dungeon in the game at least once. The DLC dungeons are cool. They have some of my favourite dungeon stories (WGT and RoM), and it's fun PUGging them in normal as a healer.

I need to be in a particular mood for questing, so I haven't actually completed Vvardenfell, CWC, Murkmire or Elsweyr North or South on any character yet. I did the main quest in Summerset, but I haven't finished the side quests.

Dungeons are a fun thing to do for me, and I will be farming the motifs in them shortly.

mdylan2013 · January 2020

They have two dungeon DLCs because they don’t have the resources to invest in better DLC content. I think most people would rather only have one dungeon DLC content release a year.

Personally I’d rather they have a pvp focused DLC in place of one one the dungeon DLCs but that will never happen.

code65536 · January 2020

Instanced group content is repeatable. How often can you do the same story quest over and over again? It's one-and-done content. A lot of resources to make for something that doesn't last. But dungeons and trials? It's repeatable because it's something that you can get better at over time and with practice. The bread and butter of a MMO should be the group content. The rest, IMHO, is just fluffy dressing.

ForzaRammer · January 2020

or instead of 3 dlc just do 2 maybe?

UltraMex · January 2020

Now i only do daily random dungeon so i might run a dungeon twice, but aren't most dungeons are the same? Run - stop - kill trash then repeat untill you get to the boss with no special mechanic beside hit hard. In that case, i don't see the poin of buying them

Agenericname · January 2020

UltraMex wrote: »

Now i only do daily random dungeon so i might run a dungeon twice, but aren't most dungeons are the same? Run - stop - kill trash then repeat untill you get to the boss with no special mechanic beside hit hard. In that case, i don't see the poin of buying them

No, they're not the same. Perhaps on normal, but in that case the mechanics are there, you just don't see them. I'd wager the mechanics of the vet DLCs are the biggest gripe. Vet Scalecaller Peak and vet Ruins of Maz, or Moonhunter keep, are all very different fights with very different mechanics. Hard mode applies that.

UltraMex · January 2020

Agenericname wrote: »

UltraMex wrote: »

Now i only do daily random dungeon so i might run a dungeon twice, but aren't most dungeons are the same? Run - stop - kill trash then repeat untill you get to the boss with no special mechanic beside hit hard. In that case, i don't see the poin of buying them

No, they're not the same. Perhaps on normal, but in that case the mechanics are there, you just don't see them. I'd wager the mechanics of the vet DLCs are the biggest gripe. Vet Scalecaller Peak and vet Ruins of Maz, or Moonhunter keep, are all very different fights with very different mechanics. Hard mode applies that.

Ah ok then

Nemesis7884 · January 2020

i do enjoy the dungeons and like doing them a couple times but

a) i dont enjoy grinding them for gear
b) it is getting really hard to find groups if you are not a tank

so a solo dungeon mode to grind gear and do them at your own leasure would be kinda nice

Sailor_Palutena · January 2020

Faulgor wrote: »

I'll say we are reaching a saturation point regarding DLC dungeons. It's already hard to find a group for a particular dungeon you want to run, and most people skip the DLC pledges.

I think I'd rather see a small system update or zone overhaul instead of one dungeon DLC. 2 dungeons per year should suffice, especially when they keep delaying the motif release.

I like all normal dungeons, but avoid all DLC.

FYI I unsubscribed to avoid being forced into DLC dungeons. If they added an option to not do a number of dgs to the Random Finder, I would gladly resub.

I don't care if people find them easy or whatever. They are much longer, and most pugs can hardly do them without ragequitting half way. I don't have time to waste. That's all.

Jaraal · January 2020

One shot mechanics are a cheesy way to exclude people from content. It's a developer's way to force people to group, whether they want to or not. They should be able to figure out a way to make content challenging without the instakill crutch.

They can make content scale to your level, so why not make instanced content (and rewards) scale to the number of people in your party?

Trensharo · January 2020

Sailor_Palutena wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

I'll say we are reaching a saturation point regarding DLC dungeons. It's already hard to find a group for a particular dungeon you want to run, and most people skip the DLC pledges.

I think I'd rather see a small system update or zone overhaul instead of one dungeon DLC. 2 dungeons per year should suffice, especially when they keep delaying the motif release.

I like all normal dungeons, but avoid all DLC.

FYI I unsubscribed to avoid being forced into DLC dungeons. If they added an option to not do a number of dgs to the Random Finder, I would gladly resub.

I don't care if people find them easy or whatever. They are much longer, and most pugs can hardly do them without ragequitting half way. I don't have time to waste. That's all.

Tried the ESO+ Trial on PS4, and this is what I noticed. People quit 1/3rd to 1/2 of the way through the dungeon, after a 20-30 minute LFG queue. Logged off and haven't logged in again.

Didn't check PC, since it takes forever to download and install.

And with tons of dungeons there is just too much risk in this happening. That is a lot of time wasted.

Trensharo · January 2020

code65536 wrote: »

Instanced group content is repeatable. How often can you do the same story quest over and over again? It's one-and-done content. A lot of resources to make for something that doesn't last. But dungeons and trials? It's repeatable because it's something that you can get better at over time and with practice. The bread and butter of a MMO should be the group content. The rest, IMHO, is just fluffy dressing.

Nothing about a game being an MMORPG necessitates group content its bread and butter.

The only thing it necessitates, it is being an RPG for Massive Amounts of Players to log into.

The whole "group focused gaming" element is really something that was invented by games like EverQuest as a means to gate players, since the business model was subscription and any barriers to progression were potential profit generators.

This is why, as players have gotten so much better at playing these games, other games are starting to introduce more time gates (WoW had some of these) or blatant gear checks that force you to grind content to progress - even though the story (FFXIV has some of these).

thorwyn · January 2020

Why dlc dungeons?
Because ESO ist more than just an interactive story.
Beause people enjoy a challenge.
Because your 2-3% is just a random figure drawn out of thin air.

Also, only 2-3% of the people were able to read and understand your post right away due to a lack of interpunctuation mechanics.

colossalvoids · January 2020

It's a problem with players and not the content.

Dlc normals are painfully easy even doing it alone or with one other person if no ''pin'' mechanics stopping you to solo.
Guess people just want the rewards and not the story itself and some are told that dlc ones are hard but there is a thing - they hard on a hardmode, not on normal difficulty, especially new ones that came with wrathstone and further. Even vet now way easier that some of the previous ones so anyone could acquire cosmetic rewards and move on.

Part of the problem are people coming with expectation of no challenge involved but that's whole games issue so no point to talk about it even.

But anyway hardmodes and trifecta are kinda endgame content that already super small part of their development time so ''wasting'' time for it is keeping older players somehow involved in game still so new ones will have their essential addons updated and their favorite streamers will not just quit as game will become a story mode. Not everything should be made to satisfy skyrim players, you know.

Hotdog_23 · January 2020

I think more people run dungeons then some think others do. If people did not run them then ZOS would not keep making like they do. PVP is not that big of a draw in ESO which is why ZOS does not focus on it as much as PVE content. ZOS goes where the money is made and content people are playing.

Sure, DLC’s are harder and the one shot are cheap, but the dungeons are well made and exciting to play. You see a new forum thread at once a month asking for harder overland content. Which I don’t really think would be possible in an MMO and not alienate new players starting out (well since One-Tamerial came out). So, ZOS does the only thing they can do which is create harder content that is group instanced for those that want it.

I think the rewards offered is fine. Never liked the perfected gear options. As it only separates the player base in my option. The only content you possibly need the perfected gear is really the only content that’s gives it. I like the possibly of an average player being able to get the best gear even if they don’t really need it. Just breeds elitism to me.

Zulera301 · January 2020

I've spent a good few hundred bucks on this game all things considered, but I've never and will never spend a cent on the dungeons. I do them sometimes on normal to get clears or what have you, thanks to ESO+, but it's also the one time ESO+ becomes a curse. When you have a less-geared character (or worse, a lv.45-49) and you queue for random, there's an ever-increasing change it's gonna stick you in one of those nefarious DLCs when you were just hoping for a quick run to get the daily rewards or the like. I'm subscribed on my main account, but not subscribed on my alt. Guess which one I run random dungeons on?

that said, I do like the idea of Craglorn-style zones with increased difficulty. I believe that was actually the direction ZOS planned to take way back in the day when ESO was still subscription-based.