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Why is PVP so disregarded/irrelevant to updates?
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mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭1. The population is almost certainly < 500 in prime time, so you're almost irrelevant. Off peak you can often find more people chasing the alik'r dolmens than in your faction.
2. Every time zos have an event to try and entice people into PvP, there's a subset of idiots who go out of their way to make that experience absolutely miserable for anyone dipping their toes in.
3. #2 doesn't help #1.
Ever considered that the majority of the PVP player base has already left?3 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭1. The population is almost certainly < 500 in prime time, so you're almost irrelevant. Off peak you can often find more people chasing the alik'r dolmens than in your faction.
2. Every time zos have an event to try and entice people into PvP, there's a subset of idiots who go out of their way to make that experience absolutely miserable for anyone dipping their toes in.
3. #2 doesn't help #1.
Ever considered that the majority of the PVP player base has already left?
Ever considered that's irrelevant to what I said above? Deal with current facts.12 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭i dont mind pvp in eso.
i dont go there to fight though.
i go there with a few real life friends i have and i do enjoy playing with them.
i go in there and do what i do best: be the healer.
i give heals while they get kills!
idgaf about the actual pvp itself.
i get wrecked sometimes but i do not care.
i just respawn and try again.
it really isnt a serious part of the game.
its just “a neat extra.”
I feel the same way. PvP is fun because it is casual group content. I need to put in effort and pay attention in a trial. In Cyrodiil, I can just joke around will guild members. PvP is very casual content. It isn't like you can fail to complete it.
I don't PvP much though because if the group isn't fun, it gets really repetitive and feels like running on a treadmill. Usually, after a half hour or so, I'm asking myself why I am there. Especially if the raid leader takes it seriously to the point of becoming rude when everyone isn't doing what he wants when he wants.
I probably would have done a lot less Cyrodiil if not for wanting to get skill points and level up skill lines on multiple characters. I'd rather work on my single player backlog of games.4 -
TempPlayer✭✭✭✭✭Isn't that always cycle like this?
Try to introduce new PvE focus content that bring in the money and have people come up with way the developer never think of and abuse the new skill/class/set in PvP, then start thinking on how to "balance" the newly introduced element disregarding its effect on PvE. And then come the next year where a new PvE focus announcement is made again. They never have the time to stop and think of new PvP content in this cycle. And given the current population in PvP zone, it is not surprising that they don't prioritize it over PvE content.Edited by TempPlayer on January 17, 2020 2:12AM0 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭
The same can be said about pve content too tho...... "Oh my look how hard I hit that non moving object! My dps is 87.4! Can you beat that? No I'm 12.3 dps higher you need to up your game and get on my level"
No offense at all but beating up pve mobs that lack actual intelligence is the equivalent of beating up a noob in pvp lol. Pve players love to stroke their own stuff when they raise their dps (it is the reason that this game caters to dps because muh numbers are more important than anything else" type of players we have and they cater to. I've seen some trials that can be done 1 tank 1 healer 10 dps..... I've seen 1 tank 3 dps for vet hard dungeons I've also seen 4 dps complete vet dungeons so yeah pve players are arguably worse than pvp players (I do both so I'm not bias lol)5 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »beating up pve mobs that lack actual intelligence
Given the regular (and usually deplorable) state of zone chat , I'm sure there are numerous opportunities to beat up pvp mobs that lack actual intelligence too.11 -
I entered Cyrodiil, the top players had about 6.000.000 AP,
I joined a group, did some sieging, some defending, the usual stuff, i suck so my AP comes slowly.
I played for about 2 hours and got 85.000 AP and was then ranked around 200.
A friggin casual like me on a stamDK, reaching top 200 in 2 hours is rediculous.
That should give an indication of how much NOBODY is playing PvP.
Because when you are in a group of 24 (i was), and you meet opponent group of 24, (i did)
the lag is so bad you can not even break 1 CC, or if you manage to dodgeroll, your bar won't swap for 2 seconds, fun stuff like that happens,
that's why nobody plays PvP, it's too laggy too play.
And because nobody plays PvP, it's not a ZoS priority to spend resources on it, which makes sense from their perspective,
and thus the lag NEVER gets fixed,
and as long as the lag doesn't get fixed, PvP sucks, players leave within 2 hours so no playerbase is ever established,
and because there is no playerbase, there is no priority to fix the lag issues,
and well, anyone with a bit of brain will recognize this vicious circle/cycle.
See how this never gets fixed?!?!
If there are 100.000 PvE players, and only 1000 PvP players,
that's bad bussiness to spend time and money on such a small group.
Once the Lag started, ZoS made it incrementally worse instead of making it incrementally better.
Making the game better and more interesting for PvE had a negative side effect in PvP.
EU: VR 4 Orc DK; VR 2 Nord Templar; 150 levels on othersNA: VR 1 Orc NB; VR 1 Templar; 6 mules.3 -
nafensoriel✭✭✭✭✭
Congratulations you are a rare outlier?
Statistics still don't favor PVPers are money spenders in PVE oriented games.
5 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭B0SSzombie wrote: »I wonder what the ratio of "Players that PVP vs Players that never PVP" is.
Those would be fascinating to see. And might explain the neglect every aspect of PVP besides Battlegrounds receives.
You have it completely backwards. The amount of pvp players has dropped due to neglect. So of course when they look at the numbers they will be lower than before. Cause and effect.6 -
AnonomissX✭✭✭✭So...when I am in a 56 queue to get into Cyrodiil to join my PvP guild on the Xbox NA server, it's dead? LMFAO!
And... I DON'T pay for ESO? Reaaaally? OoOOOoooH, it comes out of my bank account on a monthly basis, unless I'm hallucinating...or I have a sugar daddy I'm not aware of.
If they had better servers they wouldn't have to limit the amount of players in Cyrodiil. It's artificially low because they set it that way, self-fulfilling prophesy. Apparently we aren't PLAYING...we are WAITING...Ebonheart Pact, Nord Templar/healer on NA Xbox server. My main toon WAS a tall and foxy redhead - now she has been gamma-irradiated and has green skin and black hair. 3 other characters I only use for writs. Can't be bothered to create multiple toons - EXCEPT now my WW is getting spooled up for Cyrodiil - Blood For The Pact! IRL cranky sometimes redhead chick at large in Las Vegas, NV6 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nafensoriel wrote: »
Congratulations you are a rare outlier?
Statistics still don't favor PVPers are money spenders in PVE oriented games.
Every single person in my pvp guild also does pve, housing, and buys crown crates and cosmetics, as well as subs. So again, try again. People that do more than one thing are the majority in this game, not people who hyper focus one single thing.8 -
Revokus✭✭✭✭✭nafensoriel wrote: »
Congratulations you are a rare outlier?
Statistics still don't favor PVPers are money spenders in PVE oriented games.
I mostly just PvP and must have spent like 10k+ in this game since 5 years of playing. I also have been subbed for those 5 years.Edited by Revokus on January 17, 2020 3:06AMPlaying since January 23, 20162 -
Loves_guars✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well I'm not a pvper here but I'm a pvper in another game and I wouldn't want new content itself but improvements in the existing pvp system performance and bugs. "In theooory" that's what they are doing.1 -
bmnoble✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Because they can't figure out a way to monetize PVP without people crying about it being Pay to Win, so people expect any content that has a competitive element to be free for everyone.
All the PVP content can be accessed when your not subscribing, until they figure out a profitable way to make money off of PVP players, they will continue to cater to the PVE crowd that buys the new zones every year.1 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I entered Cyrodiil, the top players had about 6.000.000 AP,
I joined a group, did some sieging, some defending, the usual stuff, i suck so my AP comes slowly.
I played for about 2 hours and got 85.000 AP and was then ranked around 200.
A friggin casual like me on a stamDK, reaching top 200 in 2 hours is rediculous.
That should give an indication of how much NOBODY is playing PvP.
The leaderboards are actually busted and have been for a while. Outside the top 100 or so everyone is ranked ~230ish. PC NA EP had something like 4k characters in the last camp, judging from what rank you needed to get in the top 2%
No one who sees the number of crown mounts and costumes in Cyrodiil seriously would think PVPers don't spend on the game.5 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Probably because the PvP community would just scream at ZOS to nerf what they do give them so why bother?
This.
Sadly it is a lot about that i think. Why would they spend their limited resources (time) on creating cool new stuff for PVP when they would just get dozens of nerf posts demanding everything removed and/or nerfed so hard that there is nothing left of the original idea anymore after the "adjustments".
Still, i bet there will be enough nerf requests with the Mythic gear and revamped Vampire line.. so we will have our "PVP content" that is the forum battle for the chance to even get to play with the new things a bit before they get nerfed, or will they get nerfed to oblivion already at Test Server. *sigh*
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Ysbriel✭✭✭✭✭PvE focused players get salty when PvP is mentioned because they only can win against a Taunted Boss with repetitive mechanics and a healer on their back. When a real person defeats them, they come here to cry nerf.
It seems people don’t understand that there are players that enjoy both PvP and PvE content and are expecting to see both sides get new stuff.
I do PvP and I do PvE. i’ve been zerged, bamboozled, bagged, trolled, pwned i’ve done the same thing back. I’ve lived the puglife with my tank well enough to come across good players, new clueless playes to help and terrible ones that don’t get it.
Expecting PvP updates in any new DLC or Chapter is part off the deal. This game is not exclusively PvE and most of the nerfs and balancing are because of PvP so there is an important portion of the community engaging in it otherwise the Devs wouldn’t even touch anything.
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Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Because they can't figure out a way to monetize PVP without people crying about it being Pay to Win, so people expect any content that has a competitive element to be free for everyone.
All the PVP content can be accessed when your not subscribing, until they figure out a profitable way to make money off of PVP players, they will continue to cater to the PVE crowd that buys the new zones every year.
Most of us PVP players spend time at PVE also, we do content to get gear from overland, craft, farm, many decent PVP sets come from PVE land always.
I have 2 accounts full of characters, ESO+ for years, i buy Crowns also for impulse purchases. Most PVP players i know spend a lot of time and money on their characters.
Trust me, us PVP people can spend crazy amounts on this game also. Same kind of spending and I´d think ZOS knows how much on ESO and on other games PVP players spend real cash.
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BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭nafensoriel wrote: »
Congratulations you are a rare outlier?
Statistics still don't favor PVPers are money spenders in PVE oriented games.
In order to stay competitive in pvp players will play pve meaning they have to pay for pve content and plenty spend money in the crown store. Where are you guy’s getting this misleading information from? Sounds a lot like your opinion, a biased one.
Not to mention there was a time where top pvp players were also top trials players.
Side note : pvp players probably have to invest more into their characters than pve players. Imagine having to grind days of pvp just to be competitive in pve ? Most can’t imagine something like that because they already can’t stay competitive to beat most endgame/dlc content as is.
Edited by BaiterOfZergs on January 17, 2020 6:49AMZerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.3 -
Banana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They can't even hold the PvP event. Paying for an update that crash and burn the place wouldn't be wise.0 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭AnonomissX wrote: »So...when I am in a 56 queue to get into Cyrodiil to join my PvP guild on the Xbox NA server, it's dead? LMFAO!
If they had better servers they wouldn't have to limit the amount of players in Cyrodiil. It's artificially low because they set it that way, self-fulfilling prophesy. Apparently we aren't PLAYING...we are WAITING...
Prime time is 6-8 hours a day. The rest of the time it's pretty ead. And the pop cap is set so low for 2 reasons, 1 being performance issues, and 2 being to balance factions.1. The population is almost certainly < 500 in prime time, so you're almost irrelevant. Off peak you can often find more people chasing the alik'r dolmens than in your faction.
2. Every time zos have an event to try and entice people into PvP, there's a subset of idiots who go out of their way to make that experience absolutely miserable for anyone dipping their toes in.
3. #2 doesn't help #1.
Ever considered that the majority of the PVP player base has already left?
Ever considered that's irrelevant to what I said above? Deal with current facts.
Not sure your small brain understands that you mentioned the number of players in “prime time” when the majority of PVPers have left so that figure is a very inaccurate depiction of what the real demand for PVP was or is. Or the amount of pulling power it can have for returning players if it was done correctly.
You don't get it. How popular something was, is irrelevant. It's how popular it is now is what matters.
We could argue all day about the causes of it, but the simple fact is, even with only ~2M ap earned each month, which is pretty easy, I am reasonably assured of getting gold jewelry.1 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »Probably because the PvP community would just scream at ZOS to nerf what they do give them so why bother?
I hate the collapsing bridges. It's just an inconvenience that anyone can break it. It's never used tactically, people just break it every chance they get. Also the artifact weapon is just horrible. Even if the losing faction gets it the dominant faction just takes it from them very quickly. So yeah, you're right1 -
MaxJrFTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The answer is obvious and it's also what led me to quit about 5 months ago. If you do bgs you'll notice you fight the same 50-60 players over and over. If you do Cyrodiil, you will also notice the same names in the chat every day, and you will fight the same people.
Very few players participate in any sort of PvP. On PC NA there's maybe 1000 people pvping. If the same goes for every platform/region, then the total will be minuscule. If ESO has 200k active subs(my estimate) and only 10k or less pvp, then why should the devs spend so much time on content that is so disregarded and irrelevant to the players?
I realized ESO pvp was never going to be good because pretty much nobody is participating in it. There's no incentive for the devs to put any work into it. The demand isn't there.
I just decided to check on the forums due the expansion announcement, wouldn't be here otherwise.Edited by MaxJrFTW on January 17, 2020 7:25AM"I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
―Ulrich Leland, 3E 4332 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭PVPers do not pay money
This is a complete fallacy show me the numbers...
Just because rpers may spend more doesnt mean pvpers dont spend money. My guildes pvp and spend real money on mundus mounts etc ...
People need to stop with this narrative pvpers *** but dont spend its flat out not true
You've answered your own question.
Saying they dont spend is wrong. Period.
He's just being toxic3 -
Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is going to be new cyrodiil crafting sets so they are getting something next dlc. Then a seige weapon and likely pvp mythic items in the new system they are putting into the game with the Greymoor Chapter.Edited by Thevampirenight on January 17, 2020 7:25AMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.0 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭i dont mind pvp in eso.
i dont go there to fight though.
i go there with a few real life friends i have and i do enjoy playing with them.
i go in there and do what i do best: be the healer.
i give heals while they get kills!
idgaf about the actual pvp itself.
i get wrecked sometimes but i do not care.
i just respawn and try again.
it really isnt a serious part of the game.
its just “a neat extra.”
Is this a poem? Also, PVP is the unintentional endgame. Nothing tests how good you are at the game more than putting your skills to test versus an equally capable enemy which is only possible VS another player. The learning curve, and skill gap is beyond most PVE players understanding. No it is not balanced, but there are players in this game who are at an insane level of skill in PVP. The Devs make constant changes to balance it out, and I can assure you that it's on the combat teams minds as much if not more than PVE as it's much more complicated to balance than doing rotations on stationary bosses.6
This discussion has been closed.