Banning Addons?

JJBoomer · December 2019

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

I was under the impression there wont be crossplay? And crossplay would mean even more pressure on the mega server architecture in terms of performance no?

The bigger question is maybe - assuming performance will be fixed - if getting ridd of add ons would be worth it if we get crossplay in return...and i do personally think yes...

Crossplay - being able to play with everybody would be fantastic and zos has shown a willingness to incorporate more tools or updates to improve quality of life (Which they certainly should do more of especially for console, like sorting and searching for things etc.)

what would be the point of cross play if we had to all play together with the crappy ui, or without the things that actually make this game easier to use functionally? I'd rather not play with everyone and have a game that easier to use because of add ons.

also until anyone claiming that addons are to blame for performance, provide solid, tangible proof, meaning not just some people experiencing it, but a majority of people, and finding out what addons those people have to create a correlation, and able to present that proof physically, any claim that addons are to blame for the performance issues, are just not valid.

just because you say things doesn't make it true. And you can't blame client side addons, as they don't interact with the server at all. Honestly, this just seems like a rumor, that turned into a witch hunt, that has devolved into some players wanting other players to lose something. which now i realize, is quite typical for this community.

AndyMac · December 2019

I wouldn’t be surprised- they have promised performance improvement.

Switching off all but required add ons is standard for vMA and a lot of end game content. It’s hard to deny that it DOES make a difference.

Also, ESO Troubleshooting 101 involves turning off all add ons. I bet a hell of a lot support time gets wasted on borked add ons.

Add ons do make me go Hmmmm sometimes.

Multiply that across all players and it’s not hard to see how taking them out of the game could seem like a good idea.

I wouldn’t quit as I get by without a lot of combat add ons - but as a mDK DD, I’d miss Srendar.

A lot.

JJBoomer · December 2019

AndyMac wrote: »

I wouldn’t be surprised- they have promised performance improvement.

Switching off all but required add ons is standard for vMA and a lot of end game content. It’s hard to deny that it DOES make a difference.

Also, ESO Troubleshooting 101 involves turning off all add ons. I bet a hell of a lot support time gets wasted on borked add ons.

Add ons do make me go Hmmmm sometimes.

Multiply that across all players and it’s not hard to see how taking them out of the game could seem like a good idea.

I wouldn’t quit as I get by without a lot of combat add ons - but as a mDK DD, I’d miss Srendar.

A lot.

you are attributing a lot of this to addons, but without proof. just your word. care to provide anything more concrete? because i have yet to see anyone pro-ban actually provide evidence of all this "addons contribute a lot to performance" claims.

Ysbriel · December 2019

Perhaps the new client change will render the current addons incompatible.

Gilvoth · December 2019

AndyMac wrote: »

I wouldn’t be surprised- they have promised performance improvement.

Switching off all but required add ons is standard for vMA and a lot of end game content. It’s hard to deny that it DOES make a difference.

Also, ESO Troubleshooting 101 involves turning off all add ons. I bet a hell of a lot support time gets wasted on borked add ons.

Add ons do make me go Hmmmm sometimes.

Multiply that across all players and it’s not hard to see how taking them out of the game could seem like a good idea.

I wouldn’t quit as I get by without a lot of combat add ons - but as a mDK DD, I’d miss Srendar.

A lot.

very true and was behind my opinion and thoughts as well.
in morrowind single player game i have some 60 add-ons that i love and i would never play morrowind without them, but this is totaly different here because its an mmo and it opens the door to soo many things like cheating that we have seen now throughout the years like from miats addon and several others, and also the contribution to lagg and high ping.
we dont know how much it adds to the ping nor the lagg but it is very possible that it adds alot.
the only reason add-ons were ever allowed in eso was because soo many people complained about it coming from W.O.W. so the devs allowed it, but in early beta it was not allowed.

JJBoomer · December 2019

if we're going to seriously discuss how to increase performance. then lets look at the biggest culprit. PVP and Cyrodiil. Those 2 things have been wreaking havoc on the servers forever. With no sign of improvement. And thats without addons at all.

So if we're being serious about increasing this game's performance, maybe lets talk about getting rid of those, and free the servers from the stress those cause.

what does everyone think about that? if you can't apply the same logic to things you want, then you can't apply it to other people and what they want.

And while we don't know concretely how much addons cause performance issues, we do know, that PVP/Cyrodiil have a huge impact on that. So one has to wonder which one should be really gotten rid of.

Or maybe, just maybe. we can stop wishing for things to be taken away from other people. just a suggestion.

AndyMac · December 2019

JJBoomer wrote: »

you are attributing a lot of this to addons, but without proof. just your word. care to provide anything more concrete? because i have yet to see anyone pro-ban actually provide evidence of all this "addons contribute a lot to performance" claims.

I used to run the minimap in vCoS to help with the maze during last boss. Now, I don’t have a video of it causing jerkiness when fighting - but there’s no doubt that it did. I’d never run it now.

Juhasow · December 2019

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

I was under the impression there wont be crossplay? And crossplay would mean even more pressure on the mega server architecture in terms of performance no?

The bigger question is maybe - assuming performance will be fixed - if getting ridd of add ons would be worth it if we get crossplay in return...and i do personally think yes...

Crossplay - being able to play with everybody would be fantastic and zos has shown a willingness to incorporate more tools or updates to improve quality of life (Which they certainly should do more of especially for console, like sorting and searching for things etc.)

They've said numerous times including this year they're not planning crossplay for ESO.

WiseSky · December 2019

If I have to craft on my 16 chars.... with no addons I rather play Day Of Dragons

Nordic__Knights · December 2019

JJBoomer wrote: »

if we're going to seriously discuss how to increase performance. then lets look at the biggest culprit. PVP and Cyrodiil. Those 2 things have been wreaking havoc on the servers forever. With no sign of improvement. And thats without addons at all.

So if we're being serious about increasing this game's performance, maybe lets talk about getting rid of those, and free the servers from the stress those cause.

what does everyone think about that? if you can't apply the same logic to things you want, then you can't apply it to other people and what they want.

And while we don't know concretely how much addons cause performance issues, we do know, that PVP/Cyrodiil have a huge impact on that. So one has to wonder which one should be really gotten rid of.

Or maybe, just maybe. we can stop wishing for things to be taken away from other people. just a suggestion.

Pvp /Cryodiil are part of the game EVERYONE buys addons are only on 1 platform and free lol get over yourself

The Uninvited · December 2019

I wouldn't mind much as long as they implement a minimap and customisable group frames so they don't take half of your screen away.

wild_kmacdb16_ESO · December 2019

Fear mongering from people who like to think they know more than they do. If banning mods was part of their performance plan, it would have been included in the 'performance road map' months ago.

Araneae6537 · December 2019

I very much doubt there is any basis to ZOS banning all add-ons. 🤨 As far as add-ons causing performance problems, wouldn’t that only be on the user’s side? I’ll admit I don’t know how all this works but I can’t imagine how add-ons one player used would cause performance problems for others. Anyway, to my knowledge, ESO has always allowed add-ons and even has it built into the UI. Finally, I’ve yet to see any “source” beyond alleged hearsay.

Ashtaris · December 2019

Like I posted on another thread, if ZOS completely removed add-ons without providing considerable UI improvements to replace those add-ons, the mass exodus of people leaving from the PC side would probably kill the game and a bunch of people at ZOS would be looking for new jobs. I don’t see it happening.

thorwyn · December 2019

Maybe that's the combat team's next balancing attempt. Who knows.

daemonios · December 2019

Tandor wrote: »

It's not remotely going to happen, but people might be surprised at how many performance issues were resolved if it did. Also, once they'd got used to the idea of not having their hand held through the major part of the game they might be surprised to realise that finding something through exploration is a lot less boring and tedious than following a marker on the map the whole time. It might reinvent "playing the game" rather than "chasing the endgame".

Nice victim blaming you've got going there. Firstly, add-ons don't explain performance issues that are shared between PC and consoles, as only the former have add-ons. Secondly, ZOS are the sole party who can decide what APIs can be used by add-on developers. If an API goes beyond modifying the client and starts querying the server and creating additional load, as seems to be the case for instance with trade add-ons, that's on the developers. I can see how having ALL OF THE ADD-ONS might impact client performance, but I really don't think that's what's going on in most cases.

Tandor wrote: »

Numerikuu wrote: »

I'd be fine with them removing addons...if they integrated certain addons into the game.

Literally 5 minutes into the game I logged off and went on a thorough addon hunt. The default UI for this game is absolutely atrocious imo.

It was designed to be minimalist like the TES games, and like them the extra features that some players (not all) want was intended to be provided by addons. It was a fundamental request from TES players that a meaningful addon system should be incorporated into the base game, without it a lot of Skyrim etc veterans wouldn't have tried out ESO. Of course, ESO is not intended to be a traditional MMORPG and so people looking for a traditional MMORPG UI will find it lacking - on purpose.

I'm sorry, but that is simply a bad excuse. The base UI at launch was insufferable, and I admire console players who can play through it. You can do minimalist without doing useless. Inventory categorizing, sorting and text search are not "maximalist". They don't show up during gameplay, they're simply basic options integrated into an inventory window, which go away when you close it. Having players pull every single accessory sold at a guild trader, 100 at a time, requiring multiple slow searches, is not minimalist, as opposed to the ability to do a direct text search of the guild trader's database. In fact, I'm convinced the still current guild trader UI generates far more useless queries and server load than if you allowed for straight text searching.

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

I think it would be hilarious. Maybe then things would actually improve in the game. What reason do the devs have to improve the ui/buff trackers or other quality of life things for us console folks when they can just download something to make it look better for themselves and not worry about it?

Except you see they have done improvements to the UI and QOL issues. Aka multicrafting. Nameplates and several other UI enhancements. It's just, as we have seen, that what it takes years for ZOS to release it only takes months for the modding community to address.

Really though I dont see them removing addon. Changing how the API works and what it can access? Well that's more likely.

Your "proof" is an argument for keeping add-ons. They added multicrafting 5 bleeping years into the game. This was a basic functionality that should have been in the UI at launch. They also did it in the laziest way possible: select quantity and *poof* it's done. It makes the fact that a single item takes time to craft, but 1000 items take the same time, a mere nuisance. At this point, just make all crafting instant.

I was adamantly against add-ons at launch because I felt some were really close to cheating, and also because they cleared ZOS of any responsibility of developing a functional UI. I gave up 6 months in when I got fed up with dealing with bag and bank inventories, guild stores, etc.

Isskander · December 2019

Realy nice provocative topic to say
Congrats to one setting it up

Reminding that addons in real servers was a side effect of pts tests, truely i would be on + to what was already said => If someone will want to change current situation by deleting addons, UI would change much till now .. and it doesn't, even when we got guild system changes.

And not loosing many players even before doing it .. UI would change (many players are too lazy for some not implemented features

and other features would just die cause of reward not match difficulties )..
=> So topic could be reconsidered when we would get better UI with more functionality (maps, guilds interfaces, metrics bla bla bla) rather than spam here others jealousy

.

Sergykid · December 2019

even tho i use addons i would like them removed too. They cheese pvp by telling the player what's happening, this is the game's job. They cheese endgame pve by telling the player what's happening, this is the game's job. They control the market. These are the "bad" addons for me, but there are those "good" addons like skyshards/lorebooks or guild management.

Tigerseye · December 2019

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

the reason consoles are dying...is cuz no addons.

Yeah, so the logical answer to that would be to figure out which addons people genuinely need and add their function to the base game, across all platforms.

One of the most important being guild store price monitoring.

Without that, you are just stabbing in the dark when trying to price items and searching for anything you need to buy is virtually impossible.

Similarly, doing surveys and treasure maps is a total nightmare without a cross on the map.

Treasure chests are, generally, not worth bothering with, without it.

Some are probably not worth bothering with, with it...

Knowing which writs you can complete and roughly how much they cost to complete per voucher is pretty vital, too.

Dismiss pet should definitely be key-bindable.

It's insane that they thought it was OK to make it not be.

Assist Rapid Riding is pretty much vital for doing things like dragons.

Although, it bugs all the time (sticks on Charging Maneuver, rather than resetting to the original skill) and even when it doesn't, if you get into combat at the wrong time, you are stuck with it on your bars the entire fight.

So, an improved version of that would need to be added.

Or, alternatively, QOL skills like Rapid Maneuver should be treated as a separate type of skill (like Sprint etc.), that can be keybound permanently (without being on the bar) and/or swapped out of in combat (if they are still placed on the bar).

The other thing that is important for QOL are search functions on craft stations (think that's an addon?).

Also, I like to be able to set my Primary house to a keybind.

Other than that, unless I have forgotten something (which is highly possible!), I live without most of them.

Partly because I get tired of updating them/adding endless dependencies.

Half the time, I can't even open the Minion app, for some reason.

Icon appears, then just disappears again when you try to click on it.

Mini-map is probably useful for most people, although I have never bothered downloading it.

That is partly why I keep wandering around in circles...

Other possible reason is that I'm thinking about something else entirely!

Don't use any combat addons, so can't really comment on that.

Probably need some to do anything competitively, currently.

So, they would obviously need to work out what is genuinely needed and what people can survive without.

Commancho · December 2019

I don't use UI, pvp or PVE add-ons but I don't cry when someone else uses them as they are not a game changers like some people think. I use tens of other add-ons however and I laugh at the idea of removing it and these rumors.

Tigerseye · December 2019

Tandor wrote: »

It's not remotely going to happen, but people might be surprised at how many performance issues were resolved if it did. Also, once they'd got used to the idea of not having their hand held through the major part of the game they might be surprised to realise that finding something through exploration is a lot less boring and tedious than following a marker on the map the whole time. It might reinvent "playing the game" rather than "chasing the endgame".

If it's causing performance issues, they really do need to implement all the necessary ones and ban addons from then on.

However, I am never going to be convinced that trying to find a treasure map location, with no cross on the map, is a good idea.

daim · December 2019

Lot of people seem to have misconception what an addon can do. If API allows making an addon then it's possible to present that information in addon. The game developer controls what is allowed and what is not.

You cant just make an addon that switches on a godmode like some people in this thread are pretty much suggesting/trolling. If you have software doing something like that, then its a third party program and obviously not allowed and you will be banned if you get caught.

It would make little sense to ban the addons altogether. However its possible that they might restrict some aspects of it through API, concidering they havent killed this rumour yet.

However of course theres also a slight chance for removing the API access altogether. If that happens then its anyones choice what to do next. I know I will pretty much move on from ESO if some of the default functions of the UI wont be improved, I wont be spending my time sorting the game inventory all day for one.

TheFM · December 2019

daim wrote: »

Lot of people seem to have misconception what an addon can do. If API allows making an addon then it's possible to present that information in addon. The game developer controls what is allowed and what is not.

You cant just make an addon that switches on a godmode like some people in this thread are pretty much suggesting/trolling. If you have software doing something like that, then its a third party program and obviously not allowed and you will be banned if you get caught.

It would make little sense to ban the addons altogether. However its possible that they might restrict some aspects of it through API, concidering they havent killed this rumour yet.

However of course theres also a slight chance for removing the API access altogether. If that happens then its anyones choice what to do next. I know I will pretty much move on from ESO if some of the default functions of the UI wont be improved, I wont be spending my time sorting the game inventory all day for one.

It's clear with add-ons like miats zos' was unaware what they were opening the door to, couple that with stealth alert add-ons , add-ons that circumvent siege mechanics telling ppl before the keep is UA if it's ua, add-ons that put huge glowy light beams on group members, the list goes on with the sketch add-ons. I'd be fine with them removing them for this simple reason to teach people a lesson. Access to the API is a privilege, not a right. If people continuously try to push what is allowed , then they need to be restricted, heavily. It's a system of trust people have abused hard.

FierceSam · December 2019

If ZOS want to implement the vast amount of QoL improvements they will have to to compensate, then getting rid of add ons is an option. Not a good one, but an option. I don’t see anyone using multi craft add ons since ZOS implemented their multicraft improvement. So they can actually do something like that, albeit 3 or 4 years after the add on developers did.

If ZOS want to do it because they can’t manage their own game and want to reduce the PC experience to that of consoles, then it won’t go down well. I would find it depressing to play without a mini map, a way of organising and labelling my inventory, easy crafting (many cheers St Dolgubon), combat metrics etc. Or all those add ons that make guild and trade running a vaguely practical experience rather than an arsef-ing chore.

These are all things that should be part of the basic gameplay. ZOS haven’t bothered to implement them and have essentially dobbed off responsibility to random 3rd party developers who often have a better grasp of function and design than they appear to.

Thinking about it, it’s a totally rubbish idea that would make my game experience immeasurably worse and way less enjoyable. So I would not be surprised if ZOS went through with it.

MajBludd · December 2019

The only one I'd care about losing are my trade addons. I dont use any other addons except map pins.
If true, I guess we will see how good everyone is without an addon telling you what to do.

nolangrady · December 2019

Add-ons will now be crown store exclusive. Fortunately, I had a rare opportunity to see a preview of the Q1 rollout. Prices aren’t too steep for the more popular choices. Want a mini-map? Only 500 crowns. Want the ability to to locate skyshards without risking bleeding on the brain? 700 crowns. The only catch is that it is not account-wide but beggars can’t be choosers.

pieratsos · December 2019

Tandor wrote: »

It's not remotely going to happen, but people might be surprised at how many performance issues were resolved if it did. Also, once they'd got used to the idea of not having their hand held through the major part of the game they might be surprised to realise that finding something through exploration is a lot less boring and tedious than following a marker on the map the whole time. It might reinvent "playing the game" rather than "chasing the endgame".

Yes cause consoles without add-ons have absolutely no performance issues.

And yes I'm sure chasing skyshards and lore books for 10th time in a row is so much fun and exploring the world. You want to reinvent "playing the game"? Start by making overland content challenging and rewarding so people don't just skip it and "chase the endgame". Running around for hours grinding skyshards and lore books isn't reinventing jack [snip]. It's as boring as it sounds.

[Edit for minor profanity]

bearbelly · December 2019

nolangrady wrote: »

Add-ons will now be crown store exclusive. Fortunately, I had a rare opportunity to see a preview of the Q1 rollout. Prices aren’t too steep for the more popular choices. Want a mini-map? Only 500 crowns. Want the ability to to locate skyshards without risking bleeding on the brain? 700 crowns. The only catch is that it is not account-wide but beggars can’t be choosers.

Total horse manure.

I shouldn't have engaged, but if you're going to troll, at least put some effort into it.

Hallothiel · December 2019

@Royaji
Patronising much? So us console players are just ‘casuals’ who aren’t really into ‘proper’ gaming? How dare we even pick up a controller and attempt to play?! 😂😂😂

yeey · December 2019

No Addons, No Sub.
I'm out then.