are DLC dungeons dead at this point?

CompM4s · December 2019

Atleast they keep them separate as far as pledges. I just wish the overall transmute stone was higher, and receiving the same amount for vet dlc hardmodes as regular hardmodes.

FierceSam · December 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

Most people are not undertaking DLC dungeons on a regular basis, with Vet DLC being even less frequented. It is also fair to say that most people who do undertake normal or vet DLC dungeons, are doing so mainly for gear, in particular Monster Helms with Vet DLC - and once that gear is acquired will be unlikely to revisit the dungeon other than to help friends/guildies.

The reason of course is that most of the DLC dungeons are significantly more challenging than the average base game dungeons, by design, its on purpose. This is positive, not something to complain about. It provides progression in difficulty of dungeons and a challenge for more capable players and groups.

There are for instance some DLC dungeons that it is very rare to find a pug capable of completion. Why should it be? The dungeons are being designed with teamwork, knowledge of the mechs, high dps in mind, specifically to provide progression from base game normal and vet dungeons.

This can make for some frustrating experiences and grinds for gear, but on balance the challenge available is positive. I also think it is positive that not just anyone can jump into a pug and get some of the best gear in the game.

I would say the progression is (not including hard modes):

Base game normal
Base game vet
DLC normal
DLC vet

Base game vet and DLC normal can be similar and some bosses and mechs can be more challenging or easy in either. Normal Forstvault for instance, I would say is more difficult than Fungal Grotto vet.

I find I am unsure what the OP is actually asking for or suggesting. I mean DLC dungeons are hard and therefore not many people run them regularly. Fine. So what?

The problem is that ZOS is asking players to pay for content that is not designed for most players. This has really been getting on my nerves for years now, and I have NOT purchased the last couple of dungeon DLC because of this. Unfortunately, I'm already paying for ESO+ this whole time, so I am directly subsidizing content that I do not like and do not want. This is especially infuriating because I would be happy if ZOS designed some new "medium" difficulty content like the base game Vet dungeons, but ZOS refuses to do this.

I think ZOS’s idea is that the normal versions of DLC dungeons would be pitched at exactly that sort of regular vet level. Sadly they are not, being shorn of most mechanics. Neither are they great preparation for the vet versions, which is a real shame.

Additionally, given the game is as broad as it is, everyone is both directly subsidising content they don’t like and benefitting from others subsidising the content they enjoy.

AgaTheGreat · December 2019

MattT1988 wrote: »

Getting really tired of people pulling this “only 1% of the playerbase run them” figure out of their arses. Got any hard data to back those numbers up?

I love these dungeons and I know a stack of people who agree. If you don’t like them, don’t do them, but leave them alone for those of us who really enjoy them.

If you look at PlayStation achievements, some dlc have an achievement for doing a particular dungeon on normal and on vet.

On PlayStation the last dungeon dlc has a completion on normal of 0.1%

MattT1988 · December 2019

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Getting really tired of people pulling this “only 1% of the playerbase run them” figure out of their arses. Got any hard data to back those numbers up?

I love these dungeons and I know a stack of people who agree. If you don’t like them, don’t do them, but leave them alone for those of us who really enjoy them.

If you look at PlayStation achievements, some dlc have an achievement for doing a particular dungeon on normal and on vet.

On PlayStation the last dungeon dlc has a completion on normal of 0.1%

Please refer to this post I did on the second page because I’m sick of repeating myself to people who aren’t reading the whole thread.

MattT1988 wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

Those stats are laughably unreliable because it takes into account EVERYBODY who’s ever logged into the game, even the players who tried the game on the free weekends and ditch the game afterwards. The PS4 stats are the same. Players who get the game, play it for a week, decide they don’t like it and don’t log in again shouldn’t count towards the overall playerbase.

FierceSam · December 2019

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

Normal scalebreaker is 0,4% and vet is 0,1%
Normal Wrathstone is 0,6% and vet is 0,1%
Normal MoS is 1,1% and normal MHK is 0,9 and completing both on vet is 0,2%
Normal Dragon bones is 1,7% while vet is 0,3%
Normal Shadows of the hist is 2,6% and vet is 0,5%
Normal Horns of the reach is 1,8% and vet is 0,3%

Those are the percentages on the dlc dungeon achievements from ps4.

So according to this not even 0,5% do both on vet 👍 and not even 3% do the normal ones.

Not sure what you mean here by ‘finishing’, are we talking completed the dungeon on vet or got vet, HM, speed and no death achievements (I would assume it’s the latter). The step increase between each dungeon release also indicates that this is content that has significant longevity.

I would imagine these are fairly comparable with Master Crafter, Emperor or most endgame achievements. I’m curious about what the percentage of players who have actually killed Molag Bal, completed all of the Morrowind, Summerset or Elsweyr chapters is. Given your figure for those reaching L50 (which you have to reach in order to do any vet content) is 12%, I imagine these would all be relatively low single figures.

And given that, of the players who have reached L50, almost 30% have completed at least one DLC dungeon pack (Shadows of the Hist), it sounds like this content is exactly what these players want.

Additionally, what these figures won’t tell you is how many people are trying to complete these. Or indeed the number who aspire to do them. Those are much more interesting numbers because they indicate the long term prospects for this content.

And given I’ve done all of them bar vet Frostvault and Scalebreaker, I’m super happy to be in the top 0.1%.

BaiterOfZergs · December 2019

If the data is skewed by how many people have logged in it still shows that few people are completing these dungeons. Even if you lowered it down to play time, I highly doubt it would get to 20 percent completion and even if it did that would still be ridiculously low.

Not that it really matters because zos still will use this type of data and data similar to it to make changes considering past data given. Besides that as I said earlier zos themselves said people aren’t completing them. It’s really that simple, I know some of you want it to be different but that’s the state of dlc dungeons.

MattT1988 · December 2019

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

If the data is skewed by how many people have logged in it still shows that few people are completing these dungeons. Even if you lowered it down to play time, I highly doubt it would get to 20 percent completion and even if it did that would still be ridiculously low.

Not that it really matters because zos still will use this type of data and data similar to it to make changes considering past data given. Besides that as I said earlier zos themselves said people aren’t completing them. It’s really that simple, I know some of you want it to be different but that’s the state of dlc dungeons.

First bolded part: That’s not a fact, just your opinion. Until someone provides solid statistics that aren’t the tainted numbers on the PS4 trophies or Xbox Achievements, then it will remain pure speculation which is pointless.

Second bolded part: Please provide a link to when ZOS said this.

ayu_fever · December 2019

if i queue for a random dungeon on normal or vet with any of my healers and i get ANY dlc dungeon....
as soon as i load in i instantly leave group. i dont say anything, i just leave.

it is worth taking the time out penalty than struggling for 3 hours with light attack spamming bowtards and a cp11 tank that transforms into a werewolf. (this really happened!)

as a subscriber, i am punished for supporting the game by getting activities that are literally impossible to complete.

dont nerf the dungeons.
just take them out of random playlist since they cant be done with pugtards.
some players like the challenge and randomness, and dont mind getting dlc randoms.

at least let us toggle having them in the random playlist. but make it NONE or ALL, no picking and choosing.

TheFM · December 2019

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

Normal scalebreaker is 0,4% and vet is 0,1%
Normal Wrathstone is 0,6% and vet is 0,1%
Normal MoS is 1,1% and normal MHK is 0,9 and completing both on vet is 0,2%
Normal Dragon bones is 1,7% while vet is 0,3%
Normal Shadows of the hist is 2,6% and vet is 0,5%
Normal Horns of the reach is 1,8% and vet is 0,3%

Those are the percentages on the dlc dungeon achievements from ps4.

So according to this not even 0,5% do both on vet 👍 and not even 3% do the normal ones.

All this tells me is that 99 percent of the player base want easy mode, which seems about right now a days.

TheFM · December 2019

Starlock wrote: »

I've barely touched any of the four new dungeons because of a lack of a story mode. When they integrate the dungeons with a lot of story, it makes me not want to play them unless I can arrange a group to go through as story mode.

Then ask in chat. If I want to do a story run i advertise in guild chat and zone chat and usually have a group within five minutes.

TheFM · December 2019

buttaface wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

Most people are not undertaking DLC dungeons on a regular basis, with Vet DLC being even less frequented. It is also fair to say that most people who do undertake normal or vet DLC dungeons, are doing so mainly for gear, in particular Monster Helms with Vet DLC - and once that gear is acquired will be unlikely to revisit the dungeon other than to help friends/guildies.

The reason of course is that most of the DLC dungeons are significantly more challenging than the average base game dungeons, by design, its on purpose. This is positive, not something to complain about. It provides progression in difficulty of dungeons and a challenge for more capable players and groups.

There are for instance some DLC dungeons that it is very rare to find a pug capable of completion. Why should it be? The dungeons are being designed with teamwork, knowledge of the mechs, high dps in mind, specifically to provide progression from base game normal and vet dungeons.

You describe the problem adequately in the first paragraph, then go into "that's a good thing." WHY? WHY in a game based on an easy single player RPG IP, where I'd argue a vast majority of players come thinking they are going to be continuing Skyrim type play. This isn't "on the job training." It isn't some kind of school or test, so why if what you say in the first paragraph is true, can that be considered a good thing?

If the game trained players to function in teams and required that all along, there might be some merit to a difficulty curve, even a fake one based on gotchas and arcade level learning. But it doesn't. ESO doesn't train the players in doodly squat in the way of team tactical play. It trains them to go to one of the myriad unregulated, risk free exp caves and level up, to crutch on aimbot pets and OP base skills, with not a hint of the gotchas in sight other than perhaps on World Bosses.

Then after a few easy introduction dungeons, walls off THE REST from the player base at large with the gotchas. Solution? Get them OUT of ALL dungeons and make them opt in only, keep them in raids. That way ALL can at least do the content and the ones who enjoy the gotchas still have them available. Who loses in that scenario? Everyone wins.

It isnt the devs fault if people ignore all the different tutorials and do not do any of the beginner level dungeons that are unlocked earliest.

TheFM · December 2019

buttaface wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

So you want to be able to face roll everything without learning any mechanics? Whats the fun in that. I feel accomplished when I have the mechanics down for a difficult dungeon, making it a tank and spank for every boss would be very dull imo.

No straw man, not at all what I posted. Maybe address specific claims and points without slanting them? Have played several games with far harder PvE than ESO that were also fun for most, and that's fine when done right. If it were only -one- set of scripts/gotchas/side games, no problem. If all attacks from bosses were separated into block, dodge or interrupt, no problem. But they aren't. They vary from boss to boss, and then add in all the unique side games to get an unnecessary maze of lazy gotchas in place of actual difficulty. Admittedly in a low parkour game with no true aim there's not a whole lot they could do. People DID enjoy that from 2003-200x before burning out on it, but it's archaic, lazy design now.

There are 30ish? dungeons in the game, maybe more. I personally don't mind doing the gotcha-side game show SOME if I know the others in my guilds enjoy it, that's good enough. But they don't. I don't, they don't. They do it to get a monster helmet a skill point or an achievement, then avoid like the plague after. There is something wrong with that.

My main point I won't repeat in full again is that it doesn't have to be this way. There is a way to make everyone happy, but a shocking portion of the player base is being left out in the status quo. No one is trying to take away the content you enjoy, just make all the content available to more of the player base than it is realistically now.

Sounds like a mindset issue to me. Not a mechanics problem.

Ohtimbar · December 2019

TheFM wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

Normal scalebreaker is 0,4% and vet is 0,1%
Normal Wrathstone is 0,6% and vet is 0,1%
Normal MoS is 1,1% and normal MHK is 0,9 and completing both on vet is 0,2%
Normal Dragon bones is 1,7% while vet is 0,3%
Normal Shadows of the hist is 2,6% and vet is 0,5%
Normal Horns of the reach is 1,8% and vet is 0,3%

Those are the percentages on the dlc dungeon achievements from ps4.

So according to this not even 0,5% do both on vet 👍 and not even 3% do the normal ones.

All this tells me is that 99 percent are too lazy to learn the mechanics, which seems about right for gaming now adays.

Lazy? It’s a video game. Some people do real work in the real world and game to relax. The concept of laziness is laughable in this context. By that logic I’m a lazy diner because I don’t eat poorly prepared food, or things I’m allergic to.

TheFM · December 2019

Rowjoh wrote: »

can't stand most of the dlc dungeons.

Overly difficult, tedious and time-consuming.... unless one is able to join a 'specialist' trial guild.

cant stand trial guilds. Overly preachy, snooty and elitist.

There you have it.

I am not the best player by far, and I can accomplish the normal and vet trials/dungeons on my sorc ( who is a tank, healer, mag and stam dd depending on build ) no issue once i learn the mechanics. And I am playing on a controller .

ayu_fever wrote: »

if i queue for a random dungeon on normal or vet with any of my healers and i get ANY dlc dungeon....
as soon as i load in i instantly leave group. i dont say anything, i just leave.

it is worth taking the time out penalty than struggling for 3 hours with light attack spamming bowtards and a cp11 tank that transforms into a werewolf. (this really happened!)

as a subscriber, i am punished for supporting the game by getting activities that are literally impossible to complete.

dont nerf the dungeons.
just take them out of random playlist since they cant be done with pugtards.
some players like the challenge and randomness, and dont mind getting dlc randoms.

at least let us toggle having them in the random playlist. but make it NONE or ALL, no picking and choosing.

Easy fix is to simply choose the dungeons you want to do with the specific option. If you want the rewards for random vet, you should have to do random vet. If you dont wanna do random with the chance of having a more difficult dungeon, you are not entitled to get them. Also, entering a random dungeon means you might have people that have never done them on vet, or never done them period, thats the risk you take, if you want it to get better help them out and explain mechanics, like every mmo ever.

TheFM · December 2019

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

Normal scalebreaker is 0,4% and vet is 0,1%
Normal Wrathstone is 0,6% and vet is 0,1%
Normal MoS is 1,1% and normal MHK is 0,9 and completing both on vet is 0,2%
Normal Dragon bones is 1,7% while vet is 0,3%
Normal Shadows of the hist is 2,6% and vet is 0,5%
Normal Horns of the reach is 1,8% and vet is 0,3%

Those are the percentages on the dlc dungeon achievements from ps4.

So according to this not even 0,5% do both on vet 👍 and not even 3% do the normal ones.

All this tells me is that 99 percent are too lazy to learn the mechanics, which seems about right for gaming now adays.

Lazy? It’s a video game. Some people do real work in the real world and game to relax. The concept of laziness is laughable in this context. By that logic I’m a lazy diner because I don’t eat poorly prepared food, or things I’m allergic to.

And some people play for a challenge. Both camps matter, and both camps have options. If you just want to relax, do questing, but expecting the devs to cut out everyone else because you want it easier is very very selfish.

Ohtimbar · December 2019

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

Normal scalebreaker is 0,4% and vet is 0,1%
Normal Wrathstone is 0,6% and vet is 0,1%
Normal MoS is 1,1% and normal MHK is 0,9 and completing both on vet is 0,2%
Normal Dragon bones is 1,7% while vet is 0,3%
Normal Shadows of the hist is 2,6% and vet is 0,5%
Normal Horns of the reach is 1,8% and vet is 0,3%

Those are the percentages on the dlc dungeon achievements from ps4.

So according to this not even 0,5% do both on vet 👍 and not even 3% do the normal ones.

All this tells me is that 99 percent are too lazy to learn the mechanics, which seems about right for gaming now adays.

Lazy? It’s a video game. Some people do real work in the real world and game to relax. The concept of laziness is laughable in this context. By that logic I’m a lazy diner because I don’t eat poorly prepared food, or things I’m allergic to.

And some people play for a challenge. Both camps matter, and both camps have options. If you just want to relax, do questing, but expecting the devs to cut out everyone else because you want it easier is very very selfish.

Good for them. Who’s trying to take that away from them? Literally no one, so it’s completely irrelevant to this discussion. As for me I will advocate for my own wishes and others are free to do the same, but insulting and dismissing the majority of players is a shabby thing to do.

TheFM · December 2019

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

Normal scalebreaker is 0,4% and vet is 0,1%
Normal Wrathstone is 0,6% and vet is 0,1%
Normal MoS is 1,1% and normal MHK is 0,9 and completing both on vet is 0,2%
Normal Dragon bones is 1,7% while vet is 0,3%
Normal Shadows of the hist is 2,6% and vet is 0,5%
Normal Horns of the reach is 1,8% and vet is 0,3%

Those are the percentages on the dlc dungeon achievements from ps4.

So according to this not even 0,5% do both on vet 👍 and not even 3% do the normal ones.

All this tells me is that 99 percent are too lazy to learn the mechanics, which seems about right for gaming now adays.

Lazy? It’s a video game. Some people do real work in the real world and game to relax. The concept of laziness is laughable in this context. By that logic I’m a lazy diner because I don’t eat poorly prepared food, or things I’m allergic to.

And some people play for a challenge. Both camps matter, and both camps have options. If you just want to relax, do questing, but expecting the devs to cut out everyone else because you want it easier is very very selfish.

Good for them. Who’s trying to take that away from them? Literally no one, so it’s completely irrelevant to this discussion. As for me I will advocate for my own wishes and others are free to do the same, but insulting and dismissing the majority of players is a shabby thing to do.

Its not dismissing, I am saying that every playstyle matters. Expecting things to be changed because one group refuses to learn mechanics or type lfg in chat however is extremely selfish.

Ohtimbar · December 2019

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

Normal scalebreaker is 0,4% and vet is 0,1%
Normal Wrathstone is 0,6% and vet is 0,1%
Normal MoS is 1,1% and normal MHK is 0,9 and completing both on vet is 0,2%
Normal Dragon bones is 1,7% while vet is 0,3%
Normal Shadows of the hist is 2,6% and vet is 0,5%
Normal Horns of the reach is 1,8% and vet is 0,3%

Those are the percentages on the dlc dungeon achievements from ps4.

So according to this not even 0,5% do both on vet 👍 and not even 3% do the normal ones.

All this tells me is that 99 percent are too lazy to learn the mechanics, which seems about right for gaming now adays.

Lazy? It’s a video game. Some people do real work in the real world and game to relax. The concept of laziness is laughable in this context. By that logic I’m a lazy diner because I don’t eat poorly prepared food, or things I’m allergic to.

And some people play for a challenge. Both camps matter, and both camps have options. If you just want to relax, do questing, but expecting the devs to cut out everyone else because you want it easier is very very selfish.

Good for them. Who’s trying to take that away from them? Literally no one, so it’s completely irrelevant to this discussion. As for me I will advocate for my own wishes and others are free to do the same, but insulting and dismissing the majority of players is a shabby thing to do.

Its not dismissing, I am saying that every playstyle matters. Expecting things to be changed because one group refuses to learn mechanics or type lfg in chat however is extremely selfish.

Customers advocating for what they want is just normal, sensible behavior. The general thrust of the thread is the fact that dlc dungeons have a low attach rate and a low participation/completion rate. We can split hairs about how low it is, but it's not great. Some players want that experience, but at a level they find fun. That's not lazy of selfish, it's reasonable and sane. It's also good business sense. blaming the customer on the other hand, is very poor business sense. MMO's are in steep decline, and should embrace as many customers and play styles as they can.

TheFM · December 2019

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

Normal scalebreaker is 0,4% and vet is 0,1%
Normal Wrathstone is 0,6% and vet is 0,1%
Normal MoS is 1,1% and normal MHK is 0,9 and completing both on vet is 0,2%
Normal Dragon bones is 1,7% while vet is 0,3%
Normal Shadows of the hist is 2,6% and vet is 0,5%
Normal Horns of the reach is 1,8% and vet is 0,3%

Those are the percentages on the dlc dungeon achievements from ps4.

So according to this not even 0,5% do both on vet 👍 and not even 3% do the normal ones.

All this tells me is that 99 percent are too lazy to learn the mechanics, which seems about right for gaming now adays.

Lazy? It’s a video game. Some people do real work in the real world and game to relax. The concept of laziness is laughable in this context. By that logic I’m a lazy diner because I don’t eat poorly prepared food, or things I’m allergic to.

And some people play for a challenge. Both camps matter, and both camps have options. If you just want to relax, do questing, but expecting the devs to cut out everyone else because you want it easier is very very selfish.

Good for them. Who’s trying to take that away from them? Literally no one, so it’s completely irrelevant to this discussion. As for me I will advocate for my own wishes and others are free to do the same, but insulting and dismissing the majority of players is a shabby thing to do.

Its not dismissing, I am saying that every playstyle matters. Expecting things to be changed because one group refuses to learn mechanics or type lfg in chat however is extremely selfish.

Customers advocating for what they want is just normal, sensible behavior. The general thrust of the thread is the fact that dlc dungeons have a low attach rate and a low participation/completion rate. We can split hairs about how low it is, but it's not great. Some players want that experience, but at a level they find fun. That's not lazy of selfish, it's reasonable and sane. It's also good business sense. blaming the customer on the other hand, is very poor business sense. MMO's are in steep decline, and should embrace as many customers and play styles as they can.

It is not reasonable to expect content to be changed to suit you whilst completely ignoring the fact that a good portion of active players do it and enjoy it. If you want relaxing, you play the story quests, or do the vanilla dungeons, or do housing. Thats the portion of the game that caters to your playstyle. Which is totally fine. What is not totally fine is saying " well i want to experience content not designed for my playstyle, so it should be changed to suit me instead of the people already enjoying it " . Each playstyle is accounted for in this game. The casual ( story, quests, housing ), the casual dungeon delver ( normal mode dungeons, normal trials ) vet mmo players ( vet dungeons and trials ) the hardcore raider ( hardmode dungeons and trials ), and the PvP players ( cyrodiil, bgs, and duelling ). What you are asking for is to completely change content to suit YOUR playstyle, whilst ignoring OTHER peoples playstyles. So yes, it is selfish.

Ohtimbar · December 2019

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

Normal scalebreaker is 0,4% and vet is 0,1%
Normal Wrathstone is 0,6% and vet is 0,1%
Normal MoS is 1,1% and normal MHK is 0,9 and completing both on vet is 0,2%
Normal Dragon bones is 1,7% while vet is 0,3%
Normal Shadows of the hist is 2,6% and vet is 0,5%
Normal Horns of the reach is 1,8% and vet is 0,3%

Those are the percentages on the dlc dungeon achievements from ps4.

So according to this not even 0,5% do both on vet 👍 and not even 3% do the normal ones.

All this tells me is that 99 percent are too lazy to learn the mechanics, which seems about right for gaming now adays.

Lazy? It’s a video game. Some people do real work in the real world and game to relax. The concept of laziness is laughable in this context. By that logic I’m a lazy diner because I don’t eat poorly prepared food, or things I’m allergic to.

And some people play for a challenge. Both camps matter, and both camps have options. If you just want to relax, do questing, but expecting the devs to cut out everyone else because you want it easier is very very selfish.

Good for them. Who’s trying to take that away from them? Literally no one, so it’s completely irrelevant to this discussion. As for me I will advocate for my own wishes and others are free to do the same, but insulting and dismissing the majority of players is a shabby thing to do.

Its not dismissing, I am saying that every playstyle matters. Expecting things to be changed because one group refuses to learn mechanics or type lfg in chat however is extremely selfish.

Customers advocating for what they want is just normal, sensible behavior. The general thrust of the thread is the fact that dlc dungeons have a low attach rate and a low participation/completion rate. We can split hairs about how low it is, but it's not great. Some players want that experience, but at a level they find fun. That's not lazy of selfish, it's reasonable and sane. It's also good business sense. blaming the customer on the other hand, is very poor business sense. MMO's are in steep decline, and should embrace as many customers and play styles as they can.

It is not reasonable to expect content to be changed to suit you whilst completely ignoring the fact that a good portion of active players do it and enjoy it. If you want relaxing, you play the story quests, or do the vanilla dungeons, or do housing. Thats the portion of the game that caters to your playstyle. Which is totally fine. What is not totally fine is saying " well i want to experience content not designed for my playstyle, so it should be changed to suit me instead of the people already enjoying it "

We have incompatible concepts of what it or is not reasonable, clearly. All feature and balance requests involve changing content, so we should simply eat the dish we're served no matter what? No thanks, I'll do as I please.

You seem to have this weird notion that I or anyone is trying to take difficult content away from you. I don't know where you get this bizarre and false notion. I don't care if you enjoy difficult content. That's great, I'm happy for you. But many (likely most) players of eso do not even attempt dlc dungeons. They are underserved by that content, which subscribers are already paying for. There should be some option for those customers to enjoy what they're paying for.

TheFM · December 2019

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

Normal scalebreaker is 0,4% and vet is 0,1%
Normal Wrathstone is 0,6% and vet is 0,1%
Normal MoS is 1,1% and normal MHK is 0,9 and completing both on vet is 0,2%
Normal Dragon bones is 1,7% while vet is 0,3%
Normal Shadows of the hist is 2,6% and vet is 0,5%
Normal Horns of the reach is 1,8% and vet is 0,3%

Those are the percentages on the dlc dungeon achievements from ps4.

So according to this not even 0,5% do both on vet 👍 and not even 3% do the normal ones.

All this tells me is that 99 percent are too lazy to learn the mechanics, which seems about right for gaming now adays.

Lazy? It’s a video game. Some people do real work in the real world and game to relax. The concept of laziness is laughable in this context. By that logic I’m a lazy diner because I don’t eat poorly prepared food, or things I’m allergic to.

And some people play for a challenge. Both camps matter, and both camps have options. If you just want to relax, do questing, but expecting the devs to cut out everyone else because you want it easier is very very selfish.

Good for them. Who’s trying to take that away from them? Literally no one, so it’s completely irrelevant to this discussion. As for me I will advocate for my own wishes and others are free to do the same, but insulting and dismissing the majority of players is a shabby thing to do.

Its not dismissing, I am saying that every playstyle matters. Expecting things to be changed because one group refuses to learn mechanics or type lfg in chat however is extremely selfish.

Customers advocating for what they want is just normal, sensible behavior. The general thrust of the thread is the fact that dlc dungeons have a low attach rate and a low participation/completion rate. We can split hairs about how low it is, but it's not great. Some players want that experience, but at a level they find fun. That's not lazy of selfish, it's reasonable and sane. It's also good business sense. blaming the customer on the other hand, is very poor business sense. MMO's are in steep decline, and should embrace as many customers and play styles as they can.

It is not reasonable to expect content to be changed to suit you whilst completely ignoring the fact that a good portion of active players do it and enjoy it. If you want relaxing, you play the story quests, or do the vanilla dungeons, or do housing. Thats the portion of the game that caters to your playstyle. Which is totally fine. What is not totally fine is saying " well i want to experience content not designed for my playstyle, so it should be changed to suit me instead of the people already enjoying it "

We have incompatible concepts of what it or is not reasonable, clearly. All feature and balance requests involve changing content, so we should simply eat the dish we're served no matter what? No thanks, I'll do as I please.

You seem to have this weird notion that I or anyone is trying to take difficult content away from you. I don't know where you get this bizarre and false notion. I don't care if you enjoy difficult content. That's great, I'm happy for you. But many (likely most) players of eso do not even attempt dlc dungeons. They are underserved by that content, which subscribers are already paying for. There should be some option for those customers to enjoy what they're paying for.

That content is simply not designed for your playstyle. Its really that simple. You either learn the mechanics and and adapt, or just dont play it. In all 5 of my guilds people are constantly doing them. And none of them are hardcore raiding guilds. Even my housing guild does em. I would be open for a story mode, but if they did that I would expect there to be no dungeon rewards. I mean I dont expect a six pack from watching tv.

Ohtimbar · December 2019

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

Normal scalebreaker is 0,4% and vet is 0,1%
Normal Wrathstone is 0,6% and vet is 0,1%
Normal MoS is 1,1% and normal MHK is 0,9 and completing both on vet is 0,2%
Normal Dragon bones is 1,7% while vet is 0,3%
Normal Shadows of the hist is 2,6% and vet is 0,5%
Normal Horns of the reach is 1,8% and vet is 0,3%

Those are the percentages on the dlc dungeon achievements from ps4.

So according to this not even 0,5% do both on vet 👍 and not even 3% do the normal ones.

All this tells me is that 99 percent are too lazy to learn the mechanics, which seems about right for gaming now adays.

Lazy? It’s a video game. Some people do real work in the real world and game to relax. The concept of laziness is laughable in this context. By that logic I’m a lazy diner because I don’t eat poorly prepared food, or things I’m allergic to.

And some people play for a challenge. Both camps matter, and both camps have options. If you just want to relax, do questing, but expecting the devs to cut out everyone else because you want it easier is very very selfish.

Good for them. Who’s trying to take that away from them? Literally no one, so it’s completely irrelevant to this discussion. As for me I will advocate for my own wishes and others are free to do the same, but insulting and dismissing the majority of players is a shabby thing to do.

Its not dismissing, I am saying that every playstyle matters. Expecting things to be changed because one group refuses to learn mechanics or type lfg in chat however is extremely selfish.

Customers advocating for what they want is just normal, sensible behavior. The general thrust of the thread is the fact that dlc dungeons have a low attach rate and a low participation/completion rate. We can split hairs about how low it is, but it's not great. Some players want that experience, but at a level they find fun. That's not lazy of selfish, it's reasonable and sane. It's also good business sense. blaming the customer on the other hand, is very poor business sense. MMO's are in steep decline, and should embrace as many customers and play styles as they can.

It is not reasonable to expect content to be changed to suit you whilst completely ignoring the fact that a good portion of active players do it and enjoy it. If you want relaxing, you play the story quests, or do the vanilla dungeons, or do housing. Thats the portion of the game that caters to your playstyle. Which is totally fine. What is not totally fine is saying " well i want to experience content not designed for my playstyle, so it should be changed to suit me instead of the people already enjoying it "

We have incompatible concepts of what it or is not reasonable, clearly. All feature and balance requests involve changing content, so we should simply eat the dish we're served no matter what? No thanks, I'll do as I please.

You seem to have this weird notion that I or anyone is trying to take difficult content away from you. I don't know where you get this bizarre and false notion. I don't care if you enjoy difficult content. That's great, I'm happy for you. But many (likely most) players of eso do not even attempt dlc dungeons. They are underserved by that content, which subscribers are already paying for. There should be some option for those customers to enjoy what they're paying for.

That content is simply not designed for your playstyle. Its really that simple. You either learn the mechanics and and adapt, or just dont play it. In all 5 of my guilds people are constantly doing them. And none of them are hardcore raiding guilds. Even my housing guild does em. I would be open for a story mode, but if they did that I would expect there to be no dungeon rewards. I mean I dont expect a six pack from watching tv.

First of all, when I'm talking about myself I just say so openly. I don't dither, or play passive-aggressive forum pong. Second, hard mode exists. It was requested, and granted. I suppose that was unreasonable? or does that standard only apply to more casual players?

BejaProphet · December 2019

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

Normal scalebreaker is 0,4% and vet is 0,1%
Normal Wrathstone is 0,6% and vet is 0,1%
Normal MoS is 1,1% and normal MHK is 0,9 and completing both on vet is 0,2%
Normal Dragon bones is 1,7% while vet is 0,3%
Normal Shadows of the hist is 2,6% and vet is 0,5%
Normal Horns of the reach is 1,8% and vet is 0,3%

Those are the percentages on the dlc dungeon achievements from ps4.

So according to this not even 0,5% do both on vet 👍 and not even 3% do the normal ones.

All this tells me is that 99 percent are too lazy to learn the mechanics, which seems about right for

Its not dismissing, I am saying that every playstyle matters. Expecting things to be changed because one group refuses to learn mechanics or type lfg in chat however is extremely selfish.

Customers advocating for what they want is just normal, sensible behavior. The general thrust of the thread is the fact that dlc dungeons have a low attach rate and a low participation/completion rate. We can split hairs about how low it is, but it's not great. Some players want that experience, but at a level they find fun. That's not lazy of selfish, it's reasonable and sane. It's also good business sense. blaming the customer on the other hand, is very poor business sense. MMO's are in steep decline, and should embrace as many customers and play styles as they can.

It is not reasonable to expect content to be changed to suit you whilst completely ignoring the fact that a good portion of active players do it and enjoy it. If you want relaxing, you play the story quests, or do the vanilla dungeons, or do housing. Thats the portion of the game that caters to your playstyle. Which is totally fine. What is not totally fine is saying " well i want to experience content not designed for my playstyle, so it should be changed to suit me instead of the people already enjoying it "

You seem to have this weird notion that I or anyone is trying to take difficult content away from you. I don't know where you get this bizarre and false notion.

I don’t know if you’ve followed the whole thread. I certainly don’t blame you if haven’t. But part of the thread has been an objection to developers spending time developing this hard dungeon content. So people are suggesting taking it away.

BejaProphet · December 2019

Well that attemp to quote paste went very wrong.

Ohtimbar · December 2019

BejaProphet wrote: »

Well that attemp to quote paste went very wrong.

Eh, it happens to everyone at some point, but I read it. I see your point, but there’s no chance of that actually happening, and I didn’t read as anyone taking things away. Every perspective, every activity, has fans and critics. As such, we all have our own ideal balance of resources. In this case, the balance is clearly one-sided. I hope that changes. Not by removing difficulty for people who want it, but by adding options for players who currently have none.

And just to clarify my personal position, if I needed help getting through dungeons I have a lot of skilled friends who would be happy to help at the drop of a hat. Not everyone does, or wants to, or should be expected to.

AlnilamE · December 2019

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

Normal scalebreaker is 0,4% and vet is 0,1%
Normal Wrathstone is 0,6% and vet is 0,1%
Normal MoS is 1,1% and normal MHK is 0,9 and completing both on vet is 0,2%
Normal Dragon bones is 1,7% while vet is 0,3%
Normal Shadows of the hist is 2,6% and vet is 0,5%
Normal Horns of the reach is 1,8% and vet is 0,3%

Those are the percentages on the dlc dungeon achievements from ps4.

So according to this not even 0,5% do both on vet 👍 and not even 3% do the normal ones.

All this tells me is that 99 percent are too lazy to learn the mechanics, which seems about right for gaming now adays.

Lazy? It’s a video game. Some people do real work in the real world and game to relax. The concept of laziness is laughable in this context. By that logic I’m a lazy diner because I don’t eat poorly prepared food, or things I’m allergic to.

And some people play for a challenge. Both camps matter, and both camps have options. If you just want to relax, do questing, but expecting the devs to cut out everyone else because you want it easier is very very selfish.

Good for them. Who’s trying to take that away from them? Literally no one, so it’s completely irrelevant to this discussion. As for me I will advocate for my own wishes and others are free to do the same, but insulting and dismissing the majority of players is a shabby thing to do.

Its not dismissing, I am saying that every playstyle matters. Expecting things to be changed because one group refuses to learn mechanics or type lfg in chat however is extremely selfish.

Customers advocating for what they want is just normal, sensible behavior. The general thrust of the thread is the fact that dlc dungeons have a low attach rate and a low participation/completion rate. We can split hairs about how low it is, but it's not great. Some players want that experience, but at a level they find fun. That's not lazy of selfish, it's reasonable and sane. It's also good business sense. blaming the customer on the other hand, is very poor business sense. MMO's are in steep decline, and should embrace as many customers and play styles as they can.

It is not reasonable to expect content to be changed to suit you whilst completely ignoring the fact that a good portion of active players do it and enjoy it. If you want relaxing, you play the story quests, or do the vanilla dungeons, or do housing. Thats the portion of the game that caters to your playstyle. Which is totally fine. What is not totally fine is saying " well i want to experience content not designed for my playstyle, so it should be changed to suit me instead of the people already enjoying it "

We have incompatible concepts of what it or is not reasonable, clearly. All feature and balance requests involve changing content, so we should simply eat the dish we're served no matter what? No thanks, I'll do as I please.

You seem to have this weird notion that I or anyone is trying to take difficult content away from you. I don't know where you get this bizarre and false notion. I don't care if you enjoy difficult content. That's great, I'm happy for you. But many (likely most) players of eso do not even attempt dlc dungeons. They are underserved by that content, which subscribers are already paying for. There should be some option for those customers to enjoy what they're paying for.

But that goes for all content. I have friends who loathe PvP. They will go into Cyrodiil if I badger them about it. They enjoy dungeons, but only if they run with guildies. They don't like PUGs. I have a guildie who started tanking DLC dungeons to farm motifs and he enjoys them so much it's all he does now (Scalecaller is his favourite and he will take hours to teach people the mechanics). Meanwhile, the only time he placed a furniture item in a house was when he decided to make a "garage sale" of all the furnishing items he's picked up that he doesn't need because he has 0 interest in housing.

I enjoy multiple aspects of the game, but I've only ever run half a dozen battlegrounds. I think they are pointless. But I understand there are people who spend their days there and it's the game mode they enjoy. I don't expect ZOS to change battlegrounds to suit me. I have enough stuff to do in the game.

ZOS has enough metrics to decide whether they want to put development time into dungeon DLCs or zone DLCs. They can tell what the completion rates are (note that I just recently finished the TG/DB zones and am now working on Morrowind - I enjoy quests, but I need to be in a particular mood for them)

pelle412 · December 2019

Noone is forced to do DLC dungeons. Don't queue for them if you don't want them, and don't use "random" dungeon if you're not ok getting a random dungeon.

Aptonoth · December 2019

This games end game pve balance is so *** even ESO team pulls off a miracle and fixes the group finder I think the damage has been done and the player base will never recover for end game content. Lots of people in my end game guild are quitting from a huge amount of bugs in end game content a well as how hard they are to do in general due to massive dps nerfs. Also balance is so messed up because ZOS is too lazy to balance pve and pvp differently and will always be messed up.

I don't see ESO getting better anytime soon. Every patch since the middle of the year has made *** worse. ESO is done for at this point at least as an MMO. It may be able to live on like TOR for its solo story content but I dunno.

Like me and my crew have had so many hard hard long dungeon runs ended form bugs. I can't go back or risk wasting my time anymore and it seems like the end game community is speaking.

FierceSam · December 2019

TheFM wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

Most people are not undertaking DLC dungeons on a regular basis, with Vet DLC being even less frequented. It is also fair to say that most people who do undertake normal or vet DLC dungeons, are doing so mainly for gear, in particular Monster Helms with Vet DLC - and once that gear is acquired will be unlikely to revisit the dungeon other than to help friends/guildies.

The reason of course is that most of the DLC dungeons are significantly more challenging than the average base game dungeons, by design, its on purpose. This is positive, not something to complain about. It provides progression in difficulty of dungeons and a challenge for more capable players and groups.

There are for instance some DLC dungeons that it is very rare to find a pug capable of completion. Why should it be? The dungeons are being designed with teamwork, knowledge of the mechs, high dps in mind, specifically to provide progression from base game normal and vet dungeons.

You describe the problem adequately in the first paragraph, then go into "that's a good thing." WHY? WHY in a game based on an easy single player RPG IP, where I'd argue a vast majority of players come thinking they are going to be continuing Skyrim type play. This isn't "on the job training." It isn't some kind of school or test, so why if what you say in the first paragraph is true, can that be considered a good thing?

If the game trained players to function in teams and required that all along, there might be some merit to a difficulty curve, even a fake one based on gotchas and arcade level learning. But it doesn't. ESO doesn't train the players in doodly squat in the way of team tactical play. It trains them to go to one of the myriad unregulated, risk free exp caves and level up, to crutch on aimbot pets and OP base skills, with not a hint of the gotchas in sight other than perhaps on World Bosses.

Then after a few easy introduction dungeons, walls off THE REST from the player base at large with the gotchas. Solution? Get them OUT of ALL dungeons and make them opt in only, keep them in raids. That way ALL can at least do the content and the ones who enjoy the gotchas still have them available. Who loses in that scenario? Everyone wins.

It isnt the devs fault if people ignore all the different tutorials and do not do any of the beginner level dungeons that are unlocked earliest.

It is the devs’ fault that the tutorials they create are perfunctory at best and cannot be accessed more than once.

It is the devs’ fault that there are no tutorials that touch on group play or the individual responsibilities of each role.

It is the devs’ fault that players who sign up to ESO+ are force fed into DLC dungeons they do not wish to do.

It is the devs’ fault that the normal versions of a dungeon provide almost no preparation for the vet versions, making them pointless for players to do as a way of introducing themselves to the mechanics and encouraging players to “dive right in” into the vet versions.

The devs could make a much more serious effort to prepare players for and teach them about the DLC dungeons, but I guess they’d rather dob that off to youtubers and forum nazis

Ohtimbar · December 2019

AlnilamE wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

Normal scalebreaker is 0,4% and vet is 0,1%
Normal Wrathstone is 0,6% and vet is 0,1%
Normal MoS is 1,1% and normal MHK is 0,9 and completing both on vet is 0,2%
Normal Dragon bones is 1,7% while vet is 0,3%
Normal Shadows of the hist is 2,6% and vet is 0,5%
Normal Horns of the reach is 1,8% and vet is 0,3%

Those are the percentages on the dlc dungeon achievements from ps4.

So according to this not even 0,5% do both on vet 👍 and not even 3% do the normal ones.

All this tells me is that 99 percent are too lazy to learn the mechanics, which seems about right for gaming now adays.

Lazy? It’s a video game. Some people do real work in the real world and game to relax. The concept of laziness is laughable in this context. By that logic I’m a lazy diner because I don’t eat poorly prepared food, or things I’m allergic to.

And some people play for a challenge. Both camps matter, and both camps have options. If you just want to relax, do questing, but expecting the devs to cut out everyone else because you want it easier is very very selfish.

Good for them. Who’s trying to take that away from them? Literally no one, so it’s completely irrelevant to this discussion. As for me I will advocate for my own wishes and others are free to do the same, but insulting and dismissing the majority of players is a shabby thing to do.

Its not dismissing, I am saying that every playstyle matters. Expecting things to be changed because one group refuses to learn mechanics or type lfg in chat however is extremely selfish.

Customers advocating for what they want is just normal, sensible behavior. The general thrust of the thread is the fact that dlc dungeons have a low attach rate and a low participation/completion rate. We can split hairs about how low it is, but it's not great. Some players want that experience, but at a level they find fun. That's not lazy of selfish, it's reasonable and sane. It's also good business sense. blaming the customer on the other hand, is very poor business sense. MMO's are in steep decline, and should embrace as many customers and play styles as they can.

It is not reasonable to expect content to be changed to suit you whilst completely ignoring the fact that a good portion of active players do it and enjoy it. If you want relaxing, you play the story quests, or do the vanilla dungeons, or do housing. Thats the portion of the game that caters to your playstyle. Which is totally fine. What is not totally fine is saying " well i want to experience content not designed for my playstyle, so it should be changed to suit me instead of the people already enjoying it "

We have incompatible concepts of what it or is not reasonable, clearly. All feature and balance requests involve changing content, so we should simply eat the dish we're served no matter what? No thanks, I'll do as I please.

You seem to have this weird notion that I or anyone is trying to take difficult content away from you. I don't know where you get this bizarre and false notion. I don't care if you enjoy difficult content. That's great, I'm happy for you. But many (likely most) players of eso do not even attempt dlc dungeons. They are underserved by that content, which subscribers are already paying for. There should be some option for those customers to enjoy what they're paying for.

But that goes for all content. I have friends who loathe PvP. They will go into Cyrodiil if I badger them about it. They enjoy dungeons, but only if they run with guildies. They don't like PUGs. I have a guildie who started tanking DLC dungeons to farm motifs and he enjoys them so much it's all he does now (Scalecaller is his favourite and he will take hours to teach people the mechanics). Meanwhile, the only time he placed a furniture item in a house was when he decided to make a "garage sale" of all the furnishing items he's picked up that he doesn't need because he has 0 interest in housing.

I enjoy multiple aspects of the game, but I've only ever run half a dozen battlegrounds. I think they are pointless. But I understand there are people who spend their days there and it's the game mode they enjoy. I don't expect ZOS to change battlegrounds to suit me. I have enough stuff to do in the game.

ZOS has enough metrics to decide whether they want to put development time into dungeon DLCs or zone DLCs. They can tell what the completion rates are (note that I just recently finished the TG/DB zones and am now working on Morrowind - I enjoy quests, but I need to be in a particular mood for them)

That’s fine and dandy. No one is forced to express their desires or voice their complaints. I choose to do so. I’m a customer first and a fan second. I feel it is in my best interests, and cannot fathom doing otherwise. No one has to agree, but I will continue to complain about bugs, high prices, poor service, bad design decisions etc. If I want something, I’ll request it. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. ESO has a long list of features added or changed due to popular demand. It works.