Suggestion: A system for trading crowns safely

Kranel_san · December 2019

Have you ever wanted to buy a dlc or mount or even a couple of crates in exchange for your in-game gold currency? Or wanted to sell some of your crowns to other players for their gold?
Though we already can trade crowns in-game for gold or the opposite but it isn't in direct manner and it involve the gift system, in addition to it's biggest well-known problem which is unfortunately getting scammed

Then how about an in-game system that allows players to safely either trade gold or crowns in the same way everyone can trade items with each other? You can open a trading window similar to the trading items window but it's specific to trading crowns with another player and you both get to agreement on the price, whether it's 300g = 1c or 400g = 1c or something else, it's up to you. Then you both can accept the trading and safely get your store item or gold.
Another notable use for this suggested system is for example, you want to buy something worth 3000 crowns but you found two players, each with 1500 crowns in their account. You can trade with the first and get the 1500 crowns as a currency ( Instead of item ) then you can go to the second player and trade with him to get 3000 crowns you wanted.

This way, you don't have to worry if the other player logged off or teleported away after receiving payment/store item. You don't have to worry if you go first or last. You don't have to worry for spending hours in-game searching for someone to sell the specific amount you are asking for. You don't have to worry of anything

Everyone will be happy but what about Zenimax? They will still earn as the crown seller will still buy it from them. In fact, this system will encourage more people to buy crowns as of it's trading became safe.
And before you might ask, i would like to say that to use this suggested system you must own the base game so nobody create multiple account during the free to play week to transfer the free 500 crowns to their main account.

For me personally, i would like to see this system on live servers as fast as possible so i can finally not worry about getting scammed or screenshot/recording every single moment to prove a scamming.

Huyen · December 2019

There is already a system in place, namely the crownpacks. Trading gold for crowns is asking for trouble. Hence I dont do it untill it can be done with an internal system like WoW has with gametime tokens.

CassandraGemini · December 2019

There has been a very similar thread not too long ago:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/502483/wanted-secure-method-of-exchanging-crown-items-for-gold/p1

It's a good idea and I fully agree with it. I'm not sure about the specifics of your suggestion and whether that could work or not, but in general something along those lines should definitely exist. Personally I neither sell nor buy crowns this way, but there should absolutely be a safe method for such an exchange between players, and I really hope this thread will not be shot down by trolling like it happened to the last one. We know that ZoS sanctions Crown/gold trading, so it would only be consequent, if they also implemented some form of secure trading-method.

Asardes · December 2019

Tolerated, but not sanctioned by ZOS yet. If they will implement an official Crown Store exchange expect heavy markups. I would totally do it if I were them.

CassandraGemini · December 2019

Asardes wrote: »

Tolerated, but not sanctioned by ZOS yet. If they will implement an official Crown Store exchange expect heavy markups. I would totally do it if I were them.

These links are from the other thread I posted above:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5205829/#Comment_5205829
and
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5208334/#Comment_5208334

I would say this counts as being "sanctioned". Gina specifically said that it is allowed.

PizzaCat82 · December 2019

Why does there need to even be an exchange? Just make crown items tradable before use and people can sell them like they'd sell anything else.

Asardes · December 2019

I wish crown store only houses could be available as gift as well. 14,000 crowns is about 5,000,000 gold at current prices. I would buy them all that way without batting an eye

peacenote · December 2019

Personally I think the exchange has been very bad for the game, and I would prefer that this be reversed completely.

If that is not an option, obviously it would be much better to have an in-game system.

Kranel_san · December 2019

Asardes wrote: »

Tolerated, but not sanctioned by ZOS yet. If they will implement an official Crown Store exchange expect heavy markups. I would totally do it if I were them.

Exactly! There is no doubt it will not increase their revenues. And in return we got a safe method for crown exchange in-game
So it's win-win for both sides and a major step forward to encourage more players to farm gold and buy the dlcs. thus more players around

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Why does there need to even be an exchange? Just make crown items tradable before use and people can sell them like they'd sell anything else.

How to trade houses?

In my opinion. It's way better to allow the exchange of the currency itself. It will definitely be less work for them.
And if you got for yourself the free 500 crowns ( from purchasing the base game itself ) and you want to buy something that is 700 crowns worth then you only have to buy the price of 200 crowns, thus you have 700 crowns in your account that it's up to you to do whatever with them. Whether buying that item you wanted or invest in it and sell it later for gold.

peacenote wrote: »

Personally I think the exchange has been very bad for the game, and I would prefer that this be reversed completely.

If that is not an option, obviously it would be much better to have an in-game system.

How? I am that type of players who purchased some of the dlc for the in-game gold. Worked hard to farm items. Sold them in my guild trader and thus my guild benefited as well as helped the economy of the game. Purchased southern elswyer and been slaying dragons all around as well as queuing for dlc dungeons. And there are a lot of other players who are like me. How did this effected the game in a bad manner?

idk · December 2019

The simple solution is for crown items that can be gifted it should come as a token that is not bound. The token can be posted on a guild trader like anything else. Once the token is used the item is added to our collections or inventory and cannot be traded anymore.

The flip side is Zos may want to limit what is traded by not making a safe means to manage it. The trading is a double sided sword. It encourages guild buying from the bots which in turn promotes the bots and inflation occurs.

peacenote · December 2019

@Kranel_san I used to think the exchange was nice for the reasons you describe, until I saw what it did to the guild trader bidding system. Nice friendly trading guilds with usual spots so their clients could find them experienced massive disruption as some guilds resorted to funding their bids with real money via the exchange to dislodge others from their spots.

IMO the fact the I personally can obtain a Crown Store item with gold isn't worth the trade off of economy inflation and trader disruption across the server which results from some players who are in the OPPOSITE situation that you describe.. lots of $$$ to pour into Crowns so they can exchange for gold and have an advantage over others who earn their in-game gold only by playing.

My two cents. I would rather save my pennies than have the door be open for those type of practices.

cyclonus11 · December 2019

Kranel_san wrote: »

How to trade houses?

You sell the deed.

Just pack it up in a way that can be sold on the guild trader. It's really not any more complicated than that.

Anotherone773 · December 2019

Or they could just sell a "crown voucher" in the crown store. 100 crown value for 100 crowns, in game tradeable but more importantly can be sold on guild traders. You buy the voucher in the crown store. it becomes an inventory item when collected. You place it on the guild trader like any other item. Someone buys it. They receive it like any other item from the guild store. Once in their inventory they right click on it and then use to use one or the entire selected stack and it converts the vouchers to the current account.

Acrolas · December 2019

Kranel_san wrote: »

In my opinion. It's way better to allow the exchange of the currency itself. It will definitely be less work for them.

Crowns are a leased virtual currency and per TOS cannot be transferred.

Gifting really wasn't devised as a community trading tool. It's nice that it can casually work that way, but it's principally a way for ZOS to give people who no longer want their crowns an alternate way to spend them. To borrow Fortnite's refund policy:

"Refunds are not offered on V-Bucks. You can spend them on gifts for friends if you no longer want them."

I wouldn't expect an expanded trading system at any point in the future.

wolfie1.0. · December 2019

peacenote wrote: »

@Kranel_san I used to think the exchange was nice for the reasons you describe, until I saw what it did to the guild trader bidding system. Nice friendly trading guilds with usual spots so their clients could find them experienced massive disruption as some guilds resorted to funding their bids with real money via the exchange to dislodge others from their spots.

IMO the fact the I personally can obtain a Crown Store item with gold isn't worth the trade off of economy inflation and trader disruption across the server which results from some players who are in the OPPOSITE situation that you describe.. lots of $$$ to pour into Crowns so they can exchange for gold and have an advantage over others who earn their in-game gold only by playing.

My two cents. I would rather save my pennies than have the door be open for those type of practices.

I just want to clarify that crown selling is not a cause of inflation in the economy. Inflation has to do with how much of a currency is in circulation. What crowns are doing are disrupting the economy and changing how gold is transferred between players and spent.

Regarding trader disruption. Either compete or get out of the game. The same arguments you use for crown sellers disrupting the economy with their gold can be applied to what trade guilds did before gifting was enabled. Nothing has changed.

WrathOfInnos · December 2019

This is way overdue. A sanctioned feature was added to the game, but relies completely on the honor system while dealing with random and anonymous people on the internet. What could go wrong?

Asardes · December 2019

As far as I've seen there is no inflation in game, actually prices are slowly dropping for most items for a couple of months. Guild trader multi-bidding is probably sucking money slowly from the simulated economy.

rotaugen454 · December 2019

Tamriel Crown Exchange works rather well. I had a bunch of unused crowns and wanted gold for some guild store purchases. It was quick, fairly easy, and most of all, safe.

PizzaCat82 · December 2019

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Tamriel Crown Exchange works rather well. I had a bunch of unused crowns and wanted gold for some guild store purchases. It was quick, fairly easy, and most of all, safe.

*Valid only for PC users

Kranel_san · December 2019

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Tamriel Crown Exchange works rather well. I had a bunch of unused crowns and wanted gold for some guild store purchases. It was quick, fairly easy, and most of all, safe.

Though their only problem is that they force the "Market price" on you which is 400g = 1c
That is great for crown sellers. But for me at least i used for both 250g = 1c and 300g= 1c and what is higher is overpriced for me.
Plus if i am not mistaken they asks you to record proofs and mention the details of the transaction in the chat so zos can look in it if one of the sides scammed the other. So nope unfortunately, this isn't a safe method

What i suggest in short is a complete safe method in-game plus a few more features to make it better.

Acrolas wrote: »

Kranel_san wrote: »

In my opinion. It's way better to allow the exchange of the currency itself. It will definitely be less work for them.

Crowns are a leased virtual currency and per TOS cannot be transferred.

Gifting really wasn't devised as a community trading tool. It's nice that it can casually work that way, but it's principally a way for ZOS to give people who no longer want their crowns an alternate way to spend them. To borrow Fortnite's refund policy:

"Refunds are not offered on V-Bucks. You can spend them on gifts for friends if you no longer want them."

I wouldn't expect an expanded trading system at any point in the future.

Yeah, i know that currently the crowns are bound to the entire account. But i am pretty sure they can easily change this to make it suitable for a crown-trading system. Right now there are three MMO games in my mind, and two of them are from the top games. And these games have already allowed the trading of their virtual currency in safe methods and it never ruined them at all. They are at least as healthy as they were before it

Jaimeh · December 2019

The gold-for-crowns exchange is an unofficial by-product of the crown gifting system that ZOS never explicitly sanctioned, since there's room for scamming, but allow to their discretion (it's in their interest after all). I don't think they could create a system to trade gold for crowns like you would do a trade, it'd have to be pretty robust, since there can be scamming in trades, and it'd be extra work for them to moderate transactions and complaints, especially involving real world money. As for having an agreed price between the two parties, how would they implement the validity and security of that trade? The way gifting works now basically works in their favour since more crowns are sold (to people who buy with gold) but they don;t have to deal with the logistics nightmare of moderating the transactions.

RealBlue · December 2019

Yesterday I just lost 600K gold because of scammer I opened ticket and send it screenshots from our conversation and waiting respond from ESO support. I hope in the future they will create more secure system for this kind of problems. And I don't know what happening to scammers after all evidence still they are allow to play this game or their account getting banned? Yesterday I asked same question but I couldn't get right answer because in really nobody doesn't know what happening to scammers.....

JPS · December 2019

Kranel_san wrote: »

Purchased southern elswyer and been slaying dragons all around as well as queuing for dlc dungeons. And there are a lot of other players who are like me. How did this effected the game in a bad manner?

*cough* Group Finder Demolisher *cough*

Kranel_san · December 2019

Jaimeh wrote: »

The gold-for-crowns exchange is an unofficial by-product of the crown gifting system that ZOS never explicitly sanctioned, since there's room for scamming, but allow to their discretion (it's in their interest after all). I don't think they could create a system to trade gold for crowns like you would do a trade, it'd have to be pretty robust, since there can be scamming in trades, and it'd be extra work for them to moderate transactions and complaints, especially involving real world money. As for having an agreed price between the two parties, how would they implement the validity and security of that trade? The way gifting works now basically works in their favour since more crowns are sold (to people who buy with gold) but they don;t have to deal with the logistics nightmare of moderating the transactions.

But it's in their best interest to secure a safe method to encourage much more people to buy and sell, isn't it?

JPS wrote: »

Kranel_san wrote: »

Purchased southern elswyer and been slaying dragons all around as well as queuing for dlc dungeons. And there are a lot of other players who are like me. How did this effected the game in a bad manner?

*cough* Group Finder Demolisher *cough*

Pretty sure that is something to blame ZoS for and not the players in any kind of ways.
And actually it's the best for everyone to always have more players. Of course when everything is functioning right.

jircris11 · December 2019

Can always do what gw2 does. Gold to crown and crown to gold. Amount paid or charged changes depending on supply and demand. It's all done via their gem shop (gw2s cash shop) and no player to player trade

peacenote · December 2019

I don't want to derail this thread, so putting my responses regarding economy inflation and guild trader in spoilers.

Inflation

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

I just want to clarify that crown selling is not a cause of inflation in the economy. Inflation has to do with how much of a currency is in circulation. What crowns are doing are disrupting the economy and changing how gold is transferred between players and spent.

I was in a hurry (just wanted to give a basic response to the question that was asked before I forgot) and maybe paired "economy inflation" in a way that was broader than what I intended.

What I meant by this is that the ability to purchase items with Crowns (AKA real money) that before recently were intended to be obtained only through grinding or in-game gold (also generally obtained via grinding) can have the effect of increasing (inflating) prices on certain items. These items are usually expensive, rarer, in-demand-at-the-moment items, widening the gap between players who can afford crowns and players who can't or won't buy gold with crowns, because traders will raise prices as they see over-priced items selling to folks who value their time higher than the money spent to buy the crowns.

Generally, because despite gold sinks, ESO is a game economy where the ceiling of gold in circulation is essentially limitless, we don't ever see broad economy inflation and prices, as Asardes noted, do typically trend downward. So no, this isn't causing broad economy inflation, but can cause disruption of pricing in a way that causes certain costs to go up that otherwise would be stable or slowly go down.

Guild Traders

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

Regarding trader disruption. Either compete or get out of the game. The same arguments you use for crown sellers disrupting the economy with their gold can be applied to what trade guilds did before gifting was enabled. Nothing has changed.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "what trade guilds did before gifting was enabled" but I am 99.9999% sure that it wasn't possible for a trade guild to buy crowns, exchange them for gold, and then win a guild trader spot with this gold, essentially winning a spot for real money, before gifting was enabled. This is what I think is problematic. I suppose maybe some folks were using gold sellers, but that is against the TOS, while this is not.

My whole post could possibly be summed up in one line: I dislike the possibility that either individuals or guilds could obtain "an edge" by purchasing crowns to do something in-game with gold, and this possibility now exists with the "sanctioned" crown/gold exchange, which is why I don't think it's good for the game long term. But it's just my opinion and I respect differing opinions that think the benefit is worth the (potential) downsides.

jircris11 wrote: »

Can always do what gw2 does. Gold to crown and crown to gold. Amount paid or charged changes depending on supply and demand. It's all done via their gem shop (gw2s cash shop) and no player to player trade

This seems like it would be a large improvement over what's happening today.

idk · December 2019

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

@Kranel_san I used to think the exchange was nice for the reasons you describe, until I saw what it did to the guild trader bidding system. Nice friendly trading guilds with usual spots so their clients could find them experienced massive disruption as some guilds resorted to funding their bids with real money via the exchange to dislodge others from their spots.

IMO the fact the I personally can obtain a Crown Store item with gold isn't worth the trade off of economy inflation and trader disruption across the server which results from some players who are in the OPPOSITE situation that you describe.. lots of $$$ to pour into Crowns so they can exchange for gold and have an advantage over others who earn their in-game gold only by playing.

My two cents. I would rather save my pennies than have the door be open for those type of practices.

I just want to clarify that crown selling is not a cause of inflation in the economy. Inflation has to do with how much of a currency is in circulation. What crowns are doing are disrupting the economy and changing how gold is transferred between players and spent.

Regarding trader disruption. Either compete or get out of the game. The same arguments you use for crown sellers disrupting the economy with their gold can be applied to what trade guilds did before gifting was enabled. Nothing has changed.

While you are correct that crown selling does disrupt the economy but it also helps lead to inflation. However, with crown selling coupled with gold selling companies does lead to inflation. The effect this has on guild traders is not the same as before crown store gifting was available.

More importantly, to tell someone to either compete with changes or get out of the game because their opinion differs from yours is lame and a sign of a weak argument.

Kranel_san · December 2019

jircris11 wrote: »

Can always do what gw2 does. Gold to crown and crown to gold. Amount paid or charged changes depending on supply and demand. It's all done via their gem shop (gw2s cash shop) and no player to player trade

Well. As long as it provides a safe transactions i am with it

jircris11 · December 2019

peacenote wrote: »

I don't want to derail this thread, so putting my responses regarding economy inflation and guild trader in spoilers.

Inflation

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

I just want to clarify that crown selling is not a cause of inflation in the economy. Inflation has to do with how much of a currency is in circulation. What crowns are doing are disrupting the economy and changing how gold is transferred between players and spent.

I was in a hurry (just wanted to give a basic response to the question that was asked before I forgot) and maybe paired "economy inflation" in a way that was broader than what I intended.

What I meant by this is that the ability to purchase items with Crowns (AKA real money) that before recently were intended to be obtained only through grinding or in-game gold (also generally obtained via grinding) can have the effect of increasing (inflating) prices on certain items. These items are usually expensive, rarer, in-demand-at-the-moment items, widening the gap between players who can afford crowns and players who can't or won't buy gold with crowns, because traders will raise prices as they see over-priced items selling to folks who value their time higher than the money spent to buy the crowns.

Generally, because despite gold sinks, ESO is a game economy where the ceiling of gold in circulation is essentially limitless, we don't ever see broad economy inflation and prices, as Asardes noted, do typically trend downward. So no, this isn't causing broad economy inflation, but can cause disruption of pricing in a way that causes certain costs to go up that otherwise would be stable or slowly go down.

Guild Traders

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

Regarding trader disruption. Either compete or get out of the game. The same arguments you use for crown sellers disrupting the economy with their gold can be applied to what trade guilds did before gifting was enabled. Nothing has changed.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "what trade guilds did before gifting was enabled" but I am 99.9999% sure that it wasn't possible for a trade guild to buy crowns, exchange them for gold, and then win a guild trader spot with this gold, essentially winning a spot for real money, before gifting was enabled. This is what I think is problematic. I suppose maybe some folks were using gold sellers, but that is against the TOS, while this is not.

My whole post could possibly be summed up in one line: I dislike the possibility that either individuals or guilds could obtain "an edge" by purchasing crowns to do something in-game with gold, and this possibility now exists with the "sanctioned" crown/gold exchange, which is why I don't think it's good for the game long term. But it's just my opinion and I respect differing opinions that think the benefit is worth the (potential) downsides.

jircris11 wrote: »

Can always do what gw2 does. Gold to crown and crown to gold. Amount paid or charged changes depending on supply and demand. It's all done via their gem shop (gw2s cash shop) and no player to player trade

This seems like it would be a large improvement over what's happening today.

I play and have played gw2 since launch, I have over 400 bucks in gems all bought via gold I earned from farming. So it works, granted its 57 gold for 300 gems atm but still doable.

jircris11 · December 2019

Kranel_san wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

Can always do what gw2 does. Gold to crown and crown to gold. Amount paid or charged changes depending on supply and demand. It's all done via their gem shop (gw2s cash shop) and no player to player trade

Well. As long as it provides a safe transactions i am with it

Considering you dont buy the gems from players but instead the system its self scams are impossible.

Kranel_san · December 2019

jircris11 wrote: »

Kranel_san wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

Can always do what gw2 does. Gold to crown and crown to gold. Amount paid or charged changes depending on supply and demand. It's all done via their gem shop (gw2s cash shop) and no player to player trade

Well. As long as it provides a safe transactions i am with it

Considering you dont buy the gems from players but instead the system its self scams are impossible.

Yeah. That's why i called it safe transactions

And looking to GW2 i see it didn't effect badly on it at all. So that's another point to support it